Tesla Model S

tedpan

There's a 2018 P100D at work now too. I need a few promotions

bk

In the last two weeks I seem to be seeing Model S everywhere! I counted 7 just walking around over the last two weeks.

Great looking car, I'm dead jealous, sorry if I was drooling at your car over the last two weeks

unkel

bk wrote: »

In the last two weeks I seem to be seeing Model S everywhere! I counted 7 just walking around over the last two weeks.

Like I predicted. When they did away with BIK on EVs in the Netherlands a few years ago, the Model S became the best selling EV in the country overnight. It still is.

ELM327

So this, at a whopping £77k is now the cheapest Tesla CPO available.
They used to have them below £40

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB7E2XHF194927?redirect=no

gally74

ELM327 wrote: »

So this, at a whopping £77k is now the cheapest Tesla CPO available.
They used to have them below £40

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB7E2XHF194927?redirect=no

I support ev s , not a hater, but think Tesla could go wallop, I think he’s got his strategy wrong, should have contracted out the manufacturing of the model 3 and future models

ELM327

Completely irrelevant to what you quoted, and not only that, but not bloody likely either.

Soarer

gally74 wrote: »

I support ev s , not a hater, but think Tesla could go wallop, I think he’s got his strategy wrong, should have contracted out the manufacturing of the model 3 and future models

I'm sure multi-billionaire Elon Musk has a fair idea of what he's doing.

tedpan

Soarer wrote:

I'm sure multi-billionaire Elon Musk has a fair idea of what he's doing.

Watched this the other day. I'm sure they're getting government investment..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHS0H5AwGjU

gally74

Soarer wrote: »

I'm sure multi-billionaire Elon Musk has a fair idea of what he's doing.

Think he’s more interested in space x

Their loosing 2 b a year,

ELM327

gally74 wrote: »

Think he’s more interested in space x

Their loosing 2 b a year,

In non text speak, "They're losing 2 billion a year", is that what you meant?

Yes they may be making a loss now but they are still scaling up in model 3 production, where demand still far outweighs supply.

kyote00

Important week coming up .....
http://uk.businessinsider.com/critical-week-tesla-history-debt-stock-2018-4

KCross

There is a difference between using money and losing money. I believe Tesla are using it.

It’s a matter of how long more investors will keep pumping it in.

gally74

they were 3-4 years ahead with technology, but a bit like Phillips have failed to make a profit on it,

If they had done an apple on it and let someone else build the car, they could have saturated the market, Instead they are struggling and host of manufactures are catching up, Jag, Audi, VW etc.

Tesla is not a market leader in manufacturing... They should have let some one else do it, They are a market leader in Design, Marketing, The charging network, Battery tech etc,

But they wouldnt be the first innovator to lose out on the main market as FAST Followerrs catch up with large manufacturing capacity and Scale.

thierry14

gally74 wrote: »

they were 3-4 years ahead with technology, but a bit like Phillips have failed to make a profit on it,

If they had done an apple on it and let someone else build the car, they could have saturated the market, Instead they are struggling and host of manufactures are catching up, Jag, Audi, VW etc.

Tesla is not a market leader in manufacturing... They should have let some one else do it, They are a market leader in Design, Marketing, The charging network, Battery tech etc,

But they wouldnt be the first innovator to lose out on the main market as FAST Followerrs catch up with large manufacturing capacity and Scale.

They are not a leader in anything really

They will and want to make EVs

The rest dont

That should give them a good head start

The rest will be begging for batteries

unkel

gally74 wrote: »

Tesla is not a market leader in manufacturing... They should have let some one else do it

What company would have the production capacity and the technical skills to undertake that? Tesla are making the batteries in a joint venture with Panasonic, but how about the rest of the car?

Oafley Jones

gally74 wrote: »

they were 3-4 years ahead with technology, but a bit like Phillips have failed to make a profit on it,

If they had done an apple on it and let someone else build the car, they could have saturated the market, Instead they are struggling and host of manufactures are catching up, Jag, Audi, VW etc.

Tesla is not a market leader in manufacturing... They should have let some one else do it, They are a market leader in Design, Marketing, The charging network, Battery tech etc,

But they wouldnt be the first innovator to lose out on the main market as FAST Followerrs catch up with large manufacturing capacity and Scale.

Who would have built them?

thierry14

unkel wrote: »

What company would have the production capacity and the technical skills to undertake that? Tesla are making the batteries in a joint venture with Panasonic, but how about the rest of the car?

Magna International said they could have built 500,000 model 3 in 6 months.

https://www.magna.com/global-reach/north-america

Gally74 has a point tbf

Elon as smart as he is, cant know everything about everything, he's probably too smart for his own good

VW were shocked for instance when he said the Model 3 wouldn't be a shared platform across the Tesla range

Thats industry standard, pretty big mistake

Same with car seat manufacturing

Crazy decision by Tesla to build there own seats, when other companies are specialists at it and all big auto outsource it

Telsa do too much in house for mass production is what experts are saying, grand if your Mclaren but if you want to sell 1 million cars a year you have to outsource labour intensive stuff

Oafley Jones

thierry14 wrote: »

VW were shocked for instance when he said the Model 3 wouldn't be a shared platform across the Tesla range

Thats industry standard, pretty big mistake

I always assumed that was the case the 3, that a major part of the appeal was developing a common platform. Kinda amazed at this.

ELM327

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I always assumed that was the case the 3, that a major part of the appeal was developing a common platform. Kinda amazed at this.

Isnt it a common platform for the 3 and the Y?

Sabre Man

ELM327 wrote: »

Isnt it a common platform for the 3 and the Y?

It wasn't supposed to be but Elon was persuaded to change his mind.

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/i-was-walked-back-cliff-insanity-elon-musk-reverses-foolish-model-y-grand-plans-1633331

Oafley Jones

ELM327 wrote: »

Isnt it a common platform for the 3 and the Y?

That's what I assumed.

KCross

thierry14 wrote: »

Magna International said they could have built 500,000 model 3 in 6 months.

https://www.magna.com/global-reach/north-america

Gally74 has a point tbf

Elon as smart as he is, cant know everything about everything, he's probably too smart for his own good

VW were shocked for instance when he said the Model 3 wouldn't be a shared platform across the Tesla range

Thats industry standard, pretty big mistake

Same with car seat manufacturing

Crazy decision by Tesla to build there own seats, when other companies are specialists at it and all big auto outsource it

Telsa do too much in house for mass production is what experts are saying, grand if your Mclaren but if you want to sell 1 million cars a year you have to outsource labour intensive stuff

You think Musk doesnt know about Magna? Sure he does.

The "experts" are just giving opinion based on the past. Its not to say its right or wrong in todays world. Musk has made a conscious decision to do as much in-house as he can to take out the middlemen and retain more margin, just that its more capital intensive and takes longer to deliver (his achilles heal)

The Gigafactory is testament to his strategy and is likely to be one of the best decisions he has made. When all the rest are fighting for overpriced batteries from their oursourced suppliers, Tesla will be building more Gigafctories and churning out EV's by the 100k!

He has a similar in-house strategy with SpaceX.

However, it is a big risk and the bigger the risk the big the reward or fall. If Tesla come out the other end and can deliver 500k cars a year with a decent profit margin then everyone will be saying he is a genius and the shareholders will be ecstatic and happy that everything is in-house and not at the mercy of some big supplier that jacks up the price once they realise they are onto a winner!.... if the credit dries up and they go bankrupt then everyone will say "we told you so"... its just business.

Musk is thinking big and thinking long term. He hasn't done anything wrong yet other than not hit the aggressive dates he sets himself, but he has delivered everything he said he would.

yannakis

Elon's big vision is taking niche markets and turning them mainstream. Other companies will pick it up, and competition will bring development. This was a script a decade ago, but already have 2 examples

Pretty sure he'll gain profit along the way, but his involvement in automobile, space, (and soon AI), are big leaps for humanity.

The lips

How are insurance companies treating model S owners?

It is a high performance vehicle and id expect the premiums to match that.

I have an early deposit down on a model 3, id expect similar expensive premiums for that.

Any owners care to share there premium quotes?

nim1bdeh38l2cw

The lips wrote: »

How are insurance companies treating model S owners?

It is a high performance vehicle and id expect the premiums to match that.

I have an early deposit down on a model 3, id expect similar expensive premiums for that.

Any owners care to share there premium quotes?

You could try some quotes online?

Sabre Man

The lips wrote: »

How are insurance companies treating model S owners?

It is a high performance vehicle and id expect the premiums to match that.

I have an early deposit down on a model 3, id expect similar expensive premiums for that.

Any owners care to share there premium quotes?

For private insurance for a Model S you can expect to pay around €850 to €1,500.

ELM327

Sabre Man wrote: »

For private insurance for a Model S you can expect to pay around €850 to €1,500.

A lot of companies don't seem to insure them though, you will have to call it seems.

umbauk

Sabre Man wrote: »

For private insurance for a Model S you can expect to pay around €850 to €1,500.

In Jan 2018 I had difficulty finding an insurer, ended up with AXA at €1350 (142 Model S 85 - not performance model, 9+ years no claims).

Just renewed it there and there were a lot more companies giving quotes than in Jan. Moved to 123 at €850. 123 wouldn't even quote me in Jan so seems the insurance industry is catching up.

Johnboy1951

News coming out that Larry Ellison (Oracle) has been appointed to Tesla's board.

ELM327

Also, first spot of the CCS adapter for existing teslas spotted in the wild, charging at 105kW at 36% SOC

unkel

Happy days for Tesla owners! Ionity is coming, there will also be more superchargers opening in Ireland according to a recent Musk tweet. 105kW at CCS makes a massive difference to 43kW at the obsolete CHAdeMO chargers when you have a 100kWh battery...

50 minutes from empty to 90% versus well over 2 hours...

agentblue

ELM327 wrote: »

Also, first spot of the CCS adapter for existing teslas spotted in the wild, charging at 105kW at 36% SOC

Where was this seen?
Also, anyone willing to make an educated guess on when we will actually see the adapter in Ireland.

I'm about to buy a Chademo adapter.... maybe I should wait.

unkel

agentblue wrote: »

Where was this seen?
Also, anyone willing to make an educated guess on when we will actually see the adapter in Ireland.

I'm about to buy a Chademo adapter.... maybe I should wait.

Wait! Could be your biggest ever waste of money if CCS adapter is really close

ELM327

agentblue wrote: »

Where was this seen?
Also, anyone willing to make an educated guess on when we will actually see the adapter in Ireland.

I'm about to buy a Chademo adapter.... maybe I should wait.

Netherlands
Cant find it online right now

agentblue

unkel wrote: »

Wait! Could be your biggest ever waste of money if CCS adapter is really close

I can afford to wait for a couple months but after that I'll have to get something!

ELM327

agentblue wrote: »

I can afford to wait for a couple months but after that I'll have to get something!

Theres a second hand one for sale on Donedeal.


To be honest there are still chademo only charging sites so it's not a waste of money either way. I'd probably have both adapters anyway myself, anything that gives more options (eg arrive and CCS is out of order but chademo is working)

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Theres a second hand one for sale on Donedeal.


To be honest there are still chademo only charging sites so it's not a waste of money either way. I'd probably have both adapters anyway myself, anything that gives more options (eg arrive and CCS is out of order but chademo is working)

Still €400 second hand. A lot of money if you are rarely / never going to use it and it's untidy and takes up boot space. I would wait a few months to see what's developing. 150kW Ionity are upon us, there will be more superchargers too. Who wants to "invest" in the obsolete CHAdeMO system by buying an extremly expensive cable that still takes your Tesla hours to charge - a mere 43kW at best?

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Still €400 second hand. A lot of money if you are rarely / never going to use it and it's untidy and takes up boot space. I would wait a few months to see what's developing. 150kW Ionity are upon us, there will be more superchargers too. Who wants to "invest" in the obsolete CHAdeMO system by buying an extremly expensive cable that still takes your Tesla hours to charge - a mere 43kW at best?

In the frunk along with all the other cables.

Haven't you watched Bjorn's road trip videos :P


For a mere €400 I'd prefer to have the option of charging at 38-45kW as opposed to 11/16/22kW (Gross, so multiply by ~0.9 for actual) on AC.


There will never be ubiquitous SC coverage in Ireland. The population is too sparse outside the pale. We might get 8 sites in total but that's no good if you have a 100km e/w trip that doesnt cross a SC site.

The current network (and I use the term loosely) is not going anywhere soon.


It's not an either or, you can buy the CCS adapter when it comes out but there's no point in not having the options available. €400 is a night out in Dublin with a hotel stay (spot the culchie!) and I know I'd forgo one of those to get a chademo adapter if I had a tesla.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

We might get 8 sites in total but that's no good if you have a 100km e/w trip that doesnt cross a SC site.

You still have your modest battery EV owner hat on :pac:

Teslas only need a few superchargers / fast chargers around the country in the several hundred motorway km range they have (provided they have home and / or destination charging of course)

€400 for a second hand CHAdeMO would be a total waste of money if they can buy a €600 CCS cable in the next few months

Don't forget the CHAdeMO Tesla cable will be pretty much obsolete (and worth only a fraction of €400 second hand) if indeed a CCS Tesla cable is imminent

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

You still have your modest battery EV owner hat on :pac:

Teslas only need a few superchargers / fast chargers around the country in the several hundred motorway km range they have (provided they have home and / or destination charging of course)

€400 for a second hand CHAdeMO would be a total waste of money if they can buy a €600 CCS cable in the next few months

Don't forget the CHAdeMO Tesla cable will be pretty much obsolete (and worth only a fraction of €400 second hand) if indeed a CCS Tesla cable is imminent

Took me a while to change mindset from leaf to Ioniq but even in a 350-450km range tesla if you don't have destination charging you can only drive 175km each way before needing to charge at some point. That means Dublin to any other city/destination + return will need a charge.
Dublin to belfast, dublin to cork and dublin to galway are covered by superchargers. But say you have to go to Donegal, or a hotel in Derry, or a holiday home in Leitrim/kerry etc and you will need to charge enroute.


Again, i accept it is not the best method but I would definitely pay €400 for one if I got a Tesla in the morning.


Point of reference: I spent €300 on a 15m type2 extension cable when I got the IOniq. I used it once in 35k km. But it was worth it as it saved me a stop on the way home.

Oh, and interesting point of note, it isn't a CCS cable, it's a CCS adapter. It's like the J1772 to Tesla US adapter in that it clicks in to the charge port and is not a cable.

air

ELM327 wrote: »

Dublin to belfast, dublin to cork and dublin to galway are covered by superchargers.

Dublin to Limerick also covered, supercharger at Birdhill.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

But say you have to go to Donegal, or a hotel in Derry, or a holiday home in Leitrim/kerry etc and you will need to charge enroute.

Presumably you're going to stay overnight at those destinations and you can destination charge, then you do not need to charge enroute

I grant you though that destination charging is not that easy if you are only going to stay one night. It won't be anywhere near enough to charge up say a 85kWh Tesla battery if using a granny cable. Tesla will install more superchargers in Ireland though and there will be Ionity (CCS only)

ELM327 wrote: »

I spent €300 on a 15m type2 extension cable when I got the IOniq. I used it once in 35k km.

I spent €240 on the same cable but I use it every day as it makes my home charger tethered and the head is only inches from the charge port of my car for maximum possible convenience. Still nearly cried handing that type of money over for a cable

BobbyBingo

ELM327 wrote: »

Dublin to belfast, dublin to cork and dublin to galway are covered by superchargers.

Although promised, Dublin-Galway isn't covered by supercharger. Planning was granted last year for Applegreen Enfield Westbound, but no works to date appear to have happened...

B

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

I spent €240 on the same cable but I use it every day as it makes my home charger tethered and the head is only inches from the charge port of my car for maximum possible convenience. Still nearly cried handing that type of money over for a cable

Mine is an extension cable, it plugs into an existing type 2 cable, and does not work as a standalone cable. Random, and I agree paying that amount for a cable is madness but that's where we are as early adapters. Same argument for the chademo cable too imo.
Madness that they don't come as standard for free with the car actually, spending 70-100k on a car and they make you pay €450 for the chademo cable?!

unkel

BobbyBingo wrote: »

Although promised, Dublin-Galway isn't covered by supercharger.

It's only 200km. EPA range of a 5 year old Tesla S85 is 426km. You should be able to make it there and back in the same day without charging or with a few hours on a slow (destination) charger in Galway if you want to drive a good bit faster than Leafspeed

Now we're at it - are all Model S able to charge at 11kW DC and some at 22kW DC (with a dual charger)? Pardon my ignorance on these. I should really know a lot more about them at this stage as I still haven't excluded owning one.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

It's only 200km. EPA range of a 5 year old Tesla S85 is 426km. You should be able to make it there and back in the same day without charging or with a few hours on a slow (destination) charger in Galway if you want to drive a good bit faster than Leafspeed

Now we're at it - are all Model S able to charge at 11kW DC and some at 22kW DC (with a dual charger)? Pardon my ignorance on these. I should really know a lot more about them at this stage as I still haven't excluded owning one.

Prefacelift could charge at 11kW AC (presume you meant AC)
Prefacelift with dual charger option could charge at 22kW AC


Post facelift could charge at 11kW AC unless you specified high power charger option which maxes out at 16.5kW

unkel

AC, indeed, in a bit of a hurry this morning

So all Teslas can charge at 11kW AC, that't good to know, thanks!

slave1

unkel wrote: »

I spent €240 on the same cable but I use it every day as it makes my home charger tethered and the head is only inches from the charge port of my car for maximum possible convenience. Still nearly cried handing that type of money over for a cable

I paid €230 on a fibre HDMI cable so sometimes you have to pay for what you want, plus if someone owns a Tesla MS then respectively they have the disposable income for a €400 cable

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

I paid €230 on a fibre HDMI cable

Gold plated and all? I hope you didn't. A €1.50 HDMI cable from Dealz works just as well. Hint: the signal HDMI carries is digital

slave1 wrote: »

if someone owns a Tesla MS then respectively they have the disposable income for a €400 cable

You can turn that around. If someone is wealthy / successfull enough to own a Tesla Model S, they probably are not the type to be wasting money

Slaanesh

unkel wrote: »

Gold plated and all? I hope you didn't. A €1.50 HDMI cable from Dealz works just as well. Hint: the signal HDMI carries is digital

I imagine it was a length limitation.