Home heating automation

grogi · 27-11-2020 11:15am

foxatron wrote: »

Folks,

I currently have a climote installed with 3 zones upstairs downstairs and hot water on gas boiler. I was looking to get a system where I could control individual rooms. Has anyone changed from a climote to a system like this. I saw tado wired stater sets on sale but not sure if they'd suit. Any advice appreciated.

I have Tado and the more I add to it, the happier I am about it... I am not sure however how to attack the multiple heating zones with it. If you want to go through smart TRV on each rad, you could probably reduce your heating to one zone by bridging both zones control wire.

Alternatively you can get Drayton Wiser - their hub has three channels - two heating zones and hot water (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Thermostat-Heating-Control/dp/B075GNJ7ZN). Then buy the additional TRV - the best deal is to keep buying the starter packs with them: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Multi-Zone-Thermostat-Radiator/dp/B075GRPZQ1

eddiem74 · 27-11-2020 12:37pm

I have the following set-up and was wondering what Tado gear I should go after.

Boiler: Vokera Mynute 28e
Zones: 3 : upstairs, downstairs, & water
Timer/Clock: next to boiler a timer that lets me schedule 3 times per zone, plus manual boost.
Thermostats: Nothing on any wall
Radiators: 5 downstairs, 7 upstairs with vertical thermostatic values (>15years old)

deezell · 27-11-2020 1:37pm

eddiem74 wrote: »

I have the following set-up and was wondering what Tado gear I should go after.

Boiler: Vokera Mynute 28e
Zones: 3 : upstairs, downstairs, & water
Timer/Clock: next to boiler a timer that lets me schedule 3 times per zone, plus manual boost.
Thermostats: Nothing on any wall
Radiators: 5 downstairs, 7 upstairs with vertical thermostatic values (>15years old)

Tado is still limited to one wireless receiver, so to control the two CH zones, one would have to be wired back to the zone valve for it's floor. If the zone valves are somewhere downstairs, check and see how easy it would be to run a light twin wire mains cable from a living room or hallway wall to the valves. It might be easier from upstairs, from the landing wall, via the hot press across the attic and down. An alternative is to fit the entire upstairs with TRVs, locating the wired stat as a relay for the upstairs motorised valve next to the valve, and having as many zones as their are rads upstairs, say 6 leaving a bathroom or towel rail rad open. Downstairs would use the wireless stat and the extension kit (receiver) would control the downstairs CH and HW valves. All assuming your system is zoned with a 3 independent zone timer (make and model?).
Your system is ideal for the guy installation of the Drayton Wiser Kit 3, 3 zone controller. 2 wireless stats and HW control to a single receiver which just drops in in place of your current timer.

legend99 · 27-11-2020 2:04pm

Right. Might park tado for today. I just popped the Sonoff on the cylinder - well in the cylinder actually as there is a sleeve probe opening for it. Anyone have experience in what temperatures to set the Sonoff for calling for heat for the cylinder? I know there is a serious legionnaires risk etc so wondering what might be best? P.S too, does anyone have any experience of using thermal paste/grease for a cylinder probe as I am conscious that I want to ensure getting as accurate a temperature as possible from the sleeve?

As an aside as the Sonoff doesn't record temps I manually looked at it as someone had a shower here. Extraordinary fall in temp - I never realised the cylinder reacted like that. The temp was at 62 when the shower came on. The only way to put it is that it then plummeted - you can see it counting down the temperature almost like a clock. Dropping degree by degree within second for each change. It bottomed out at 22 I think! Obviously it would come back up as the water mixes I guess - but already fascinating being able to see it in real time. I might monitor it properly some day and write down temp at 30 sec intervals and report it back - people might be interested.

deezell · 27-11-2020 2:08pm

Total Nerd stuff, excellent. We should have a rating for posters. I'd award that 3 Anoraks.

legend99 · 27-11-2020 2:17pm

deezell wrote: »

Total Nerd stuff, excellent. We should have a rating for posters. I'd award that 3 Anoraks.

Reporting 44 now! I was also thinking I'll need to take 2 approaches. One report with the Sonoff calling for heat. And one when not calling for heat to just see what the water mixing and settling does in terms of what temp it stabilise at.

Hopefully someone does can report back what timing schedules/temp schedules they are using on it. Don't want to make a balls of it and make it worse!

P.S. And I very much appreciate your willingness to award 3 anoraks - what a day to be alive!!

eddiem74 · 27-11-2020 3:00pm

deezell wrote: »

Tado is still limited to one wireless receiver, so to control the two CH zones, one would have to be wired back to the zone valve for it's floor. If the zone valves are somewhere downstairs, check and see how easy it would be to run a light twin wire mains cable from a living room or hallway wall to the valves. It might be easier from upstairs, from the landing wall, via the hot press across the attic and down. An alternative is to fit the entire upstairs with TRVs, locating the wired stat as a relay for the upstairs motorised valve next to the valve, and having as many zones as their are rads upstairs, say 6 leaving a bathroom or towel rail rad open. Downstairs would use the wireless stat and the extension kit (receiver) would control the downstairs CH and HW valves. All assuming your system is zoned with a 3 independent zone timer (make and model?).
Your system is ideal for the guy installation of the Drayton Wiser Kit 3, 3 zone controller. 2 wireless stats and HW control to a single receiver which just drops in in place of your current timer.

Here is the timer:

I am not tied to Tado, so completely open to advice. I would like ease of use, google integration, etc. and as I am working from home and while the rest of the house is out liked the idea of only heating rooms that i needed to heat.

grogi · 27-11-2020 3:06pm

deezell wrote: »

Tado is still limited to one wireless receiver, so to control the two CH zones, one would have to be wired back to the zone valve for it's floor. If the zone valves are somewhere downstairs, check and see how easy it would be to run a light twin wire mains cable from a living room or hallway wall to the valves. It might be easier from upstairs, from the landing wall, via the hot press across the attic and down. An alternative is to fit the entire upstairs with TRVs, locating the wired stat as a relay for the upstairs motorised valve next to the valve, and having as many zones as their are rads upstairs, say 6 leaving a bathroom or towel rail rad open. Downstairs would use the wireless stat and the extension kit (receiver) would control the downstairs CH and HW valves. All assuming your system is zoned with a 3 independent zone timer (make and model?).
Your system is ideal for the guy installation of the Drayton Wiser Kit 3, 3 zone controller. 2 wireless stats and HW control to a single receiver which just drops in in place of your current timer.

Alternatively one can reduce three zone programmer to two zone programmer by bridging the two control wires for the heating zones. That way one receiver (in Tado terms Extention) can open both valves, with the actual zoning hapenning at the TRV level.

Drayton does fit easier, as its hub can have three channels.

baldshin · 27-11-2020 4:57pm

deezell wrote: »

Has the Geasslin timer been removed? It would make sense that the old stats need to turned up to provide continuity to the circulation pump (pumps?) whose power is provided by the nest., but this doesn't explain how it was still circulating after the scheduled nest heating event ended. It's possible those stats supply zone valves, and they may well have a relay connection directly back to the boiler to fire it, independent of your original grasslin timer. In this case though the heating should cease when the timed interval ends, regardless of it comes from the nest or the Grasslin. If the Grasslin is still connected , just set it to off, or unhook it and cover the pins with tape for the moment. If it has already been removed, then it sounds like you have some kind of loop in your wiring, whereby a timed event is throwing a relay in a valve which is going to the boiler but also back to the timed output, effectively holding the relay open. If your grasslin was operating in gravity mode, this should not create a loop. IF there are zone valves wired to fire the boiler in addition to the direct connection from the HW relay on the Nest, then a loop will occur. But then you don't need the gravity wiring mod on the Nest.
I suggest you just remove the link between pins 3 and 4 on the Nest on my diagram, which will revert it to standard two zone timer, and turn the old stats up full. Try and discover if your zones are supplied by Zone valves which have their own relays to fire the boiler. Its even possible you have a zone valve for HW, as you have 2 heating zones.
You do seem to have an odd setup, but it will need to be traced to understand the logic behind the wiring. Is it possible you also have a wiring box with relays inside? If your CH zones are pumped by individual pumps rather than the flow directed by Zone valves, it's possible, necessary even, that you have such a box, often know as a Lex box, to provide relay firing of the boiler for any wall stat or HW timed event. It's a pity you didn't mention the two wall stats back in October, this would have raised some alarms, as you have a compromise system with split from the single timer to two stat zones.

Yeah the Grasslin was replaced with the Nest. From your description it does sound like there's a timed loop from the old wall stats, will try removing the link from 3 to 4. It's become a right headache! It's a Celtic Tiger era house, so I shouldn't be surprised of things set up oddly, already had issues wiring in one of our two nest protects, after discovering loads of oddness in the upstairs wiring.

eddiem74 · 27-11-2020 5:47pm

eddiem74 wrote: »

I have the following set-up and was wondering what Tado gear I should go after.

Boiler: Vokera Mynute 28e
Zones: 3 : upstairs, downstairs, & water
Timer/Clock: next to boiler a timer that lets me schedule 3 times per zone, plus manual boost.
Thermostats: Nothing on any wall
Radiators: 5 downstairs, 7 upstairs with vertical thermostatic values (>15years old)

If going with Drayton instead of Tado, I believe this is what I need, correct?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Heating-Radiator-Thermostat-Amazon/dp/B075GNJ7ZN

They don't seem to do deals on the radiator thermostats that I can see, only sell individual?

grogi · 27-11-2020 8:13pm

eddiem74 wrote: »

If going with Drayton instead of Tado, I believe this is what I need, correct?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Heating-Radiator-Thermostat-Amazon/dp/B075GNJ7ZN

They don't seem to do deals on the radiator thermostats that I can see, only sell individual?

Yes. Plus get as many trv as you need. They are pricy enough alone, buying them in starter pack makes sense, as you'd also get a wall thermostat effectively for free.

deezell · 27-11-2020 11:37pm

eddiem74 wrote: »

If going with Drayton instead of Tado, I believe this is what I need, correct?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Heating-Radiator-Thermostat-Amazon/dp/B075GNJ7ZN

They don't seem to do deals on the radiator thermostats that I can see, only sell individual?

Yep. Straight swap. Change the basplates, terminals 1, 3 and 5 of the Horstmann to terminals 1, 3 and 2 of the Drayton

south · 29-11-2020 2:21pm

deezell wrote: »

If you want to have a crack at the installer mode, page 14 below, work though the options and turn HW mode on, your app should recognise this and enable the HW timer. Alternatively, drop support a line and ask for HW on, two wired stats. You did pop the mode jumper into position 2, with the dot on the bottom?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KRGbtTNoust23GEX3lXtgx6akSbArrJx/view?usp=drivesdk

I think I may have gone wrong somewhere, the heating is working as it should but I noticed the other day that while the downstairs heating comes on as scheduled it also lights up the hot water valve and heats the water. It also doesn't show up in the app that the water is turned on. It's great having hot water most of the time but it's probably costing me more than it should.

deezell · 30-11-2020 2:06am

south wrote: »

I think I may have gone wrong somewhere, the heating is working as it should but I noticed the other day that while the downstairs heating comes on as scheduled it also lights up the hot water valve and heats the water. It also doesn't show up in the app that the water is turned on. It's great having hot water most of the time but it's probably costing me more than it should.

Apologies first for that link I included with that last post. It seems to be the wrong installation manual. This is the link I intended, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NokMAEyjxNyh5k5Kb7owcKdoN4260RJm/view?usp=drivesdk
On page 14 it shows the path to enable HW control on the ext kit from installer mode. On page 15 there is a further setting to chose 'Fully pumped' or 'Gravity' by selecting Ext kit relay mode R01 or R02. This shoud be R01. In gravity mode, the ext kit assumes the the CH terminal only operates the circulation pump, with the HW terminal going live to fire the boiler for either a CH or a HW timed event. In 'Fully pumped' mode each terminal only goes live for its respective timed event, CH or HW, and these lives then turn on the appropriate zone valves, whose built in relays calls the boiler.
You say your HW valve is also opening for a CH event. For a HW timed event without CH, I presume only the HW vavle opens. If both downstairs valve and HW valve open, then it indicates the output wires are crossed. If HW valve only opens this would indicate that the ext kit is in Gravity mode, with HW terminal going live for either a downstairs CH event or a HW event. You can request support to put the ext kit in "Fully Pumped', R01 relay mode, and then your HW valve should open only for HW timed events.
You can change it yourself by entering installer mode on the downstairs stat. 3 sec press to bring up the two link symbol, release, 3 second press to bring up the installer symbol, release, 3 second press to start this mode. You can step through the different settings without changing them, reading off each setting as you go, TS > HC01 > HW✅ > Ek✅ > R01 ( if this is R02, use arrow keys to change to R01). Another press to SAVE, then a short time to upload and back to the standard display.

south · 30-11-2020 7:53pm

deezell wrote: »

Apologies first for that link I included with that last post. It seems to be the wrong installation manual. This is the link I intended, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NokMAEyjxNyh5k5Kb7owcKdoN4260RJm/view?usp=drivesdk
On page 14 it shows the path to enable HW control on the ext kit from installer mode. On page 15 there is a further setting to chose 'Fully pumped' or 'Gravity' by selecting Ext kit relay mode R01 or R02. This shoud be R01. In gravity mode, the ext kit assumes the the CH terminal only operates the circulation pump, with the HW terminal going live to fire the boiler for either a CH or a HW timed event. In 'Fully pumped' mode each terminal only goes live for its respective timed event, CH or HW, and these lives then turn on the appropriate zone valves, whose built in relays calls the boiler.
You say your HW valve is also opening for a CH event. For a HW timed event without CH, I presume only the HW vavle opens. If both downstairs valve and HW valve open, then it indicates the output wires are crossed. If HW valve only opens this would indicate that the ext kit is in Gravity mode, with HW terminal going live for either a downstairs CH event or a HW event. You can request support to put the ext kit in "Fully Pumped', R01 relay mode, and then your HW valve should open only for HW timed events.
You can change it yourself by entering installer mode on the downstairs stat. 3 sec press to bring up the two link symbol, release, 3 second press to bring up the installer symbol, release, 3 second press to start this mode. You can step through the different settings without changing them, reading off each setting as you go, TS > HC01 > HW✅ > Ek✅ > R01 ( if this is R02, use arrow keys to change to R01). Another press to SAVE, then a short time to upload and back to the standard display.

Thanks Deezell, this looks to have sorted the problem out.

deezell · 30-11-2020 9:39pm

south wrote: »

Thanks Deezell, this looks to have sorted the problem out.

Happy days.

Brusna · 01-12-2020 10:13am

The Drayton Wiser smart TRV’s are £36 on Amazon at the moment.

Gregor Samsa · 01-12-2020 10:59am

south wrote: »

Thanks Deezell, this looks to have sorted the problem out.

I just want to pause for a moment and say that, speaking as a passive observer in all of this, I think deezell is the most helpful person I've ever come across on Boards.

fran426ft · 01-12-2020 11:48am

legend99 wrote: »

Reporting 44 now! I was also thinking I'll need to take 2 approaches. One report with the Sonoff calling for heat. And one when not calling for heat to just see what the water mixing and settling does in terms of what temp it stabilise at.

Hopefully someone does can report back what timing schedules/temp schedules they are using on it. Don't want to make a balls of it and make it worse!

P.S. And I very much appreciate your willingness to award 3 anoraks - what a day to be alive!!

I recently added temperature sensors to my HW Cylinder using a Sonoff TH-16 hacked with Tasmota. With Tasmota you can hang multiple DS18B20 sensor off the one GPIO making it easy to add multiple. I've two at the moment, one towards the top and on in the middle, a bit above the bottom of the HW heating coil. I will probably add a 3rd as I'm interested to get the temperature further towards the bottom of the tank where the solar hot water coil is. I've it reporting back to home assistant via MQTT so I can graph them up but my HW isn't zoned so when the boiler is on it always heats the water. I may get it zoned in future but I don't worry about the cylinder temperature right now. During the summer I plan to automate it so if in the morning the HW isn't hot enough from the solar panels the day before the boiler will turn on and heat the HW only enough for a shower and not the whole house. Then I may also add some checks so if the tank hasn't got to 60-65deg at any stage over a set period that it take it up to a hotter temperature to prevent legionnaires.

Like you see, the temperature towards the bottom of the heating coil drops significantly when someone has a shower.

I also replaced my old boiler controller with a sonoff running Tasmota and my thermostats with sonoffs to control zone valves for upstairs and downstairs. I've some logic running on the tasmota devices but all are integrated with homeassistant and google home so I can set up automations, monitor and control remotely etc.

It's been fun getting into the DIY home automation but it is definitely not for everyone.

planck26 · 01-12-2020 12:11pm

deezell wrote: »

...

4. I can think of three options.
a. If you get the ext kit, but continue to use the Danfoss for HW timing, you can use the ext kit HW live signal to operate a mains relay for your electric rad, which I assume has its own built in stat.
b. If you want independent control, just add an additional tafo stat to the garden room, use it's output to switch a mains relay to turn on the electric rad.
c. Alternatively, you could link a tado zone via smart software such as IFTTT to operate a smart mains switch/socket, so when say " Kitchen Zone" is on, IFTTT will detect and operate Garden room mains relay.

Thanks again for this advice deezell. I took the plunge and got the first four TRVs, stat and wireless receiver installed in a couple of hours yesterday. (Have to say the installation process was a revelation - very impressive and reassuring for the non-expert...).

Coming back to the question of how to extend control to an electric rad in the garden room, your option B appeals to me most. Am I right in thinking that I'll need Tado's wired stat (not wireless) for this, and that I'll wire it to a mains relay that will go between the wall switch and the rad (or can it replace the wall switch)? Can you point me at an example of a suitable mains relay (it's a 2kW rad)? Greatly appreciate your help, many thanks.

savemejebus · 01-12-2020 1:26pm

Just wondering, i have a couple of rooms with two rads. No TRVs, just regular dumb valves (extra dumb as in they'll need replacing for any sort of TRV). If i want to eventually upgrade and use smart TRVs (drayton), will i need a smart TRV for each rad in a room?

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 01-12-2020 1:32pm

lots of great knowledge here , i have a wierd one though

does anyone know if its possible to buy wireless thermostat to replace a two wire old one ( honeywell type )

ive checked one wire i = brown is live all the time the other blue one seems to go live when the thermostat is active and switches the heating on ,

so it seems to be a mains level switch,

im not sure how you could power smart stat or wireless one , unless it was battery operated ( thats ok by me )
as im fairly sure the blue one is not a neutral.

i cant seem to find a battery operated mains level switch stat with wireless contol any where.

fran426ft · 01-12-2020 2:30pm

Marina Deep Pebble wrote: »

lots of great knoeledge here , i have a wierd one though

does anyone know if its possible to buy wireless thermostat to replace a two wire old one ( honeywell type )

ive checked one wire i = brown is live all the time the other blue one seems to go live when the thermostat is active and switches the heating on ,

so it seems to be a mains level switch,

im not sure how you could power smart stat or wireless one , unless it was battery operated ( thats ok by me )
as im fairly sure the blue one is not a neutral.

i cant seem to find a battery operated mains level switch stat with wireless contol any where.

A thermostat is just a switch so when it reaches a set temperature it closes the circuit providing power to whatever is connected to it. In most cases that's a zone valve which in turn has a switch which calls for heat from the boiler when opened.

There are many different options out there that can achieve this so it's down to budget and/or the level of DIY you want to get into.

It sounds like you want to relocate your temperature measurement so you'd be looking for a remote temperature sensor and a realy that is paired with it to replace the thermostat switch. This is how I'd likely go about it (i.e cheap option)

Assuming you don't have mains power at the temperature measurement location you're looking at a battery powered sensor. For something like this you want a low power device to maximize battery life so you'd be looking a something like a zigbee device. e.g. Sonoff SNZB-02 temperature and humidity sensor. To use the sensor you'd also need a ZigBee bridge (this is like a router for zigbee divices). That will get you your temperature measurement. Then you need to replace the thermostat switch with a smart relay. This will be going near the device that was previously connected to the thermostat so you shouldn't be a limited in terms of available power so this will be a mains voltage powered smart switch. If you went with a zigbee temperature sensor you could also use a ZigBee relay as you'd have a zigbee bridge but if you're sticking to the one manufacture of devices you can usually mix zigbee and wifi devices. Then you need some software that supports something like a smart scene to triggered events based on temperature input. If using Sonoff products that would be their ewlink software.

You could take a look at this video on youtube which give an overview of the sonoff ZigBee temperature sensor and how it can be used to control a switch with their software.

I don't actually use the sonoff ewlink software so I'm not 100% on this but I believe it requires an internet connection to the sonoff servers to operate the smart scenes for any automations you set up. I could be wrong though. I like sonoff devices as they are cheap and hackable. There are plenty of options out there for smart switches and sensors too.

deezell · 01-12-2020 2:43pm

planck26 wrote: »

Thanks again for this advice deezell. I took the plunge and got the first four TRVs, stat and wireless receiver installed in a couple of hours yesterday. (Have to say the installation process was a revelation - very impressive and reassuring for the non-expert...).

Coming back to the question of how to extend control to an electric rad in the garden room, your option B appeals to me most. Am I right in thinking that I'll need Tado's wired stat (not wireless) for this, and that I'll wire it to a mains relay that will go between the wall switch and the rad (or can it replace the wall switch)? Can you point me at an example of a suitable mains relay (it's a 2kW rad)? Greatly appreciate your help, many thanks.

A relay like this can be operated by the tado stat wired output. It would require a small consumer cabinet to mount it in.
https://www.electricalworld.com/en/ESR-20A-2-Pole-Contactor-Module-For-Domestic-Consumer-Units/m-2248.aspx
A smaller version like this coukd be mounted in a wall spur box or a deep socket box to interrupt the mains to the socket.
https://www.conrad.com/p/relay-flush-mount-finder-133182304300-1-maker-230-v-ac-12-a-1-pcs-1217460
Another idea would be to connect the stat wirelessly using IFTTT or another conditional smart things service, like Google home, to read it's on off status, and use that to operate a simple smart plug that will turn on and off the heater.

fran426ft · 01-12-2020 2:55pm

savemejebus wrote: »

Just wondering, i have a couple of rooms with two rads. No TRVs, just regular dumb valves (extra dumb as in they'll need replacing for any sort of TRV). If i want to eventually upgrade and use smart TRVs (drayton), will i need a smart TRV for each rad in a room?

Yes you'd need a TRV for each radiator you wish to control.

Alkers · 01-12-2020 3:48pm

fran426ft wrote: »

Yes you'd need a TRV for each radiator you wish to control.

Or a room thermostat in that room can turn on the entire heating, trvs in other rooms will ensure they don't heat up further than you've programmed for those rooms. I.e. you can get away with one room without having trvs, makes most sense if this is the most frequently heated room

deezell · 01-12-2020 6:40pm

Marina Deep Pebble wrote: »

lots of great knowledge here , i have a wierd one though

does anyone know if its possible to buy wireless thermostat to replace a two wire old one ( honeywell type )

ive checked one wire i = brown is live all the time the other blue one seems to go live when the thermostat is active and switches the heating on ,

so it seems to be a mains level switch,

im not sure how you could power smart stat or wireless one , unless it was battery operated ( thats ok by me )
as im fairly sure the blue one is not a neutral.

i cant seem to find a battery operated mains level switch stat with wireless contol any where.

Tado thermostat is battery operated, long life, and has a mains relay built in. You can just replace your old stat with it, DIY job. Netatmo also do a mains relay equipped battery powered stat. Both have versatile smart programming. There are other less expensive options out which are just basic stats with Internet access. Tado is ideal for you setup, and is loaded with Smart features.

deezell · 01-12-2020 10:36pm

fran426ft wrote: »

I recently added temperature sensors to my HW Cylinder using a Sonoff TH-16 hacked with Tasmota.......

.....It's been fun getting into the DIY home automation but it is definitely not for everyone.

Mighty stuff, awarded at least 4 Anoraks
🧥🧥🧥🧥

masterboy123 · 02-12-2020 11:53pm

Hi All,

I have installed Drayton Wiser 3 Channel system today.
All seems to be working well but WiFi keeps dropping so I am unable control the system from my phone. There is a red light flashing underneath "Setup" once I switch my phone to homes WiFi network.
But the room thermostat seems to be working OK.
Any idea what may be the issue here?

Please see attached image :

Alkers · 03-12-2020 12:12am

masterboy123 wrote: »

Hi All,

I have installed Drayton Wiser 3 Channel system today.
All seems to be working well but WiFi keeps dropping so I am unable control the system from my phone. There is a red light flashing underneath "Setup" once I switch my phone to homes WiFi network.
But the room thermostat seems to be working OK.
Any idea what may be the issue here?

Please see attached image :

How far did you get in the setup? I had the issue where my phone kept disconnecting from the hubs WiFi network as the phone deemed it bit to have any internet access. There's a setting in android not to drop the connection if a WiFi network has no connectivity, once I selected that for the wiser network it worked fine

deezell · 03-12-2020 12:28am

Sounds like the phone is switching to mobile data as the hub has no internet connectivity, you can turn mobile data off, or turn off the "Switch to mobile data" setting in advanced Wi-Fi settings. phone should stay connected to the hub until you're ready to hand the hub over to your wifi. If the hub is still blinking at this step, try the WPS button on the router.

masterboy123 · 03-12-2020 9:07am

I get stuck in the last process only, Remote Access. I was able to remain connected to the hubR. Even I can control temperatures of 3 zones while I am connected to the HubR network. Once I switch to my home WiFi then hubR is no lounger found. Please see attached images.

deezell · 03-12-2020 9:54am

Your phone is directly connecting to the hub, but the hub is not connecting to your router in the last phase. Are they very far apart? Is there a menu where you enter the router name and password to the hub, before you advance to the end. Usually the app can pass on these details directly from the phone. You could try pressing the WPS button on the router just before the last phase. You might need to get a Wi-Fi extender nearer the hub. I presume you have the installation sheet, page 16 gives the flashing red meaning. Other brands of cheap chinese stats have a similar problem as they only work with 2.4Ghx Wi-Fi, but 9n handover the router is only using 5Ghz, which has poorer range, so maybe turn this on in the router

masterboy123 · 03-12-2020 10:04am

The router and hub are maybe 5 meters apart with a wall in between. Yes, I did enter password for my home WiFi when it showed me 2 WiFi connections available, one for me and other one from my neighbour. So I selected my home WiFi on the Wiser App and it showed a green tick after chipping in the password. Then it asked for house address that also went well. It's the last step, Remote Connection where it fails and then there is a constant red light on HubR.

I have both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz options on my router. I have separated the two last night as I believe Wiser uses 2.4Ghz network. And I have tried the WPS button also but no luck.

I have contacted Wiser also and they are deleting my account so I can restart all over again.

Any other thoughts?

deezell wrote: »

Your phone is directly connecting to the hub, but the hub is not connecting to your router in the last phase. Are they very far apart? Is there a menu where you enter the router name and password to the hub, before you advance to the end. Usually the app can pass on these details directly from the phone. You could try pressing the WPS button on the router just before the last phase. You might need to get a Wi-Fi extender nearer the hub. I presume you have the installation sheet, page 16 gives the flashing red meaning. Other brands of cheap chinese stats have a similar problem as they only work with 2.4Ghx Wi-Fi, but 9n handover the router is only using 5Ghz, which has poorer range, so maybe turn this on in the router

deezell · 03-12-2020 10:32am

masterboy123 wrote: »

The router and hub are maybe 5 meters apart with a wall in between. Yes, I did enter password for my home WiFi when it showed me 2 WiFi connections available, one for me and other one from my neighbour. So I selected my home WiFi on the Wiser App and it showed a green tick after chipping in the password. Then it asked for house address that also went well. It's the last step, Remote Connection where it fails and then there is a constant red light on HubR.

I have both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz options on my router. I have separated the two last night as I believe Wiser uses 2.4Ghz network. And I have tried the WPS button also but no luck.

I have contacted Wiser also and they are deleting my account so I can restart all over again.

Any other thoughts?

I can only recall this problem in terms of the 2.4 Chinese stats, and a similar problem I had with a Lenovo device. The stat problems were teased through recently on this thread, and also a few months back. In the Lenovo case I had to start from scratch by resetting the device with the usual pin in a hole reset switch. I don't know if that's an option on the hub. I wonder if the hub connects by 5Gh or 2.4 when you connect to it as an Access Point, you could check this on the phone Wi-Fi info. Make sure mobile data is off on the phone before trying again. I vaguely recall a post elsewhere regarding brands of phone, or someone claiming to have got it to work by using a different phone. Many devices use this connection method, phone to. Device AP, configure, type in router user/pass or allow the phone to harvest its own copy and pass them on, then handover to the device. It's obviously not making that last step, either wrong frequency or wrong ssid/pass. I'd expect the router to work at 5m. Unplug other devices such as alexa, echo, anything with Wi-Fi thats close to the device.

masterboy123 · 03-12-2020 4:00pm

I have separated 2.4 Ghz and 5 GHz. Connected to 2.4 Ghz and changed the channel to 6 (1 to 11 are preferred channels). Drayton advised these steps.
Turned off all other devices using home WiFi and can see in routers admin that Wiser is connected. But when I reopen the Wiser app, there is an error that unable find HubR and I see red continuous light on the HubR.

Used partner's phone also now. Again stuck at last step of remote connection. No luck. Phone connects directly to Drayton but without WiFi and so I can't control it from phone.. The room thermostats are working well for boost function.

Waiting for a friend and will try using his phone as its a different brand phone.

deezell wrote: »

I can only recall this problem in terms of the 2.4 Chinese stats, and a similar problem I had with a Lenovo device. The stat problems were teased through recently on this thread, and also a few months back. In the Lenovo case I had to start from scratch by resetting the device with the usual pin in a hole reset switch. I don't know if that's an option on the hub. I wonder if the hub connects by 5Gh or 2.4 when you connect to it as an Access Point, you could check this on the phone Wi-Fi info. Make sure mobile data is off on the phone before trying again. I vaguely recall a post elsewhere regarding brands of phone, or someone claiming to have got it to work by using a different phone. Many devices use this connection method, phone to. Device AP, configure, type in router user/pass or allow the phone to harvest its own copy and pass them on, then handover to the device. It's obviously not making that last step, either wrong frequency or wrong ssid/pass. I'd expect the router to work at 5m. Unplug other devices such as alexa, echo, anything with Wi-Fi thats close to the device.

deezell · 03-12-2020 5:23pm

Did you try power cycling the router after the last app step to see if will connect to the router on power up?

This below from drayton support when you change routers, and hub is disconnected from the new router. I don't know if it helps. The only thing I see is the security type. When you get to the last step on the app, the hub should connect to the router, then your phone app will see the hub via the router, not diectly as in the setup.

1. Open the Wiser Heat app.
3. Wait for the login to fail.
4. Click on 'Have you changed your Wi-Fi router?'
4. Make sure your router is on 2.4 gHz, is on channels 1, 6 or 11 and has WPA2-PSK security type.
4. Follow in app instructions to connect to your Wiser HubR
You should now be back in the app home screen and able to use the system as normal.

Daisy30 · 03-12-2020 9:02pm

Hi all
I hope I’m in the right place for advice but if not feel free to redirect me.
My boilers on/off switch isn’t working so I’ve been using the switch in the wall to turn it on and off manually. This is rapidly becoming painful so I’m looking to replace the wall plug with a timer, preferably something that comes with an app, but I’m having a hard time navigating the options. There is just the one zone and I really just need the ability to set a schedule. Can anyone point me to my options please?

deezell · 03-12-2020 9:41pm

Daisy30 wrote: »

Hi all
I hope I’m in the right place for advice but if not feel free to redirect me.
My boilers on/off switch isn’t working so I’ve been using the switch in the wall to turn it on and off manually. This is rapidly becoming painful so I’m looking to replace the wall plug with a timer, preferably something that comes with an app, but I’m having a hard time navigating the options. There is just the one zone and I really just need the ability to set a schedule. Can anyone point me to my options please?

When you say the boiler switch is not working. I'm presuming you mean the circular timer switch built into the boiler. You've had to set this to always on and use the main wall switch/plug.
In that case, you can go two routes, one with a timer on the main plug, or else a timer wired into the boiler such that the boiler still has power when the timer cuts the firing of the boiler. Certain boilers require this for proper operation to allow flue gases to be evacuated by the fan after the firing ends,otherwise it can smell.
As regards the timer, this can be as simple as this €15 smart plug adaptor, https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tcp-wissinwuk-smart-plug-white/231hk
which can be app controlled with schedules, or by Alexa or Google. Just plug it in, then plug in your boiler, and off you go. No installation required.
A more purpose designed heating timer might be a wall mounted single zone wireless receiver, which in turn has a wireless thermostat so that you not only have timed control of your boiler, but a stat in your living room say to keep the temperature at a steady level when the schedule is on. A kit like this Drayton single zone,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075GS4WFK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_FMuYFb9HSD5FH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
comes with a wireless wall stat, and a receiver switch which you can get wired to control the power to the boiler plug, or wired internally to the boilers firing control terminal, or SL (switched live) terminal. This option is preferable if the boiler is designed to be powered all the time.
Netatmo is another brand of single zone wireless smart stat, same setup as the Drayton, about €150+ for the stat and receiver, but you can get it free and installed if you change electricity providers to Energia.
https://www.energia.ie/cosy-homes/netatmo-offers?&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtqL-BRC0ARIsAF4K3WFcPYyIB4CMBbdaRuCyv5Y1-SlUQKZ2iDi1cECWLDOtoxxUGRpnlBUaAknXEALw_wcB

Irish Gunner · 03-12-2020 9:53pm

Wonder if anyone can assist

Have Netatmo Thermostat and Radiator valves. Set up comfort schedule so heating comes on if temperature drops below set temperature.

Have valves set up with temperature. The valve can control the thermostat to turn on.

However we have stove installed and house is as hot as the Gobi Desert.

So what's the best way of heat in rads not coming on if we light the stove?

We don't light it up all the time so like the option of keeping existing schedule.

Is it case of setting up two different schedules.

Still trying to figure it out

Brianb8802 · 03-12-2020 10:30pm

Hi all,
I took the plunge and picked up the Drayton Wiser 3 zone kit in the Black Friday sales to replace my EPH 3 zone ( 2 Heating & 1 Hot Water).

I changed everything over yesterday which was very easy when following deezell's advice a few pages back, but today things seem to be a bit mucked up. When I call for heat on Ch2 or HW it always seems to call CH1 for heat aswell.

I have completed a few tests to see what's going on:

When calling CH1, only CH1 comes on.
When calling CH2, CH2 and CH1 come on.
When calling HW, HW and CH1 comes on.
When individually calling each zone the correct light on the front of the hub lights up. i.e. when i call hot water only the hot water light comes on.
Checking the display on the boiler the radiator symbol lights up for CH1 and CH2, but when calling HW only the radiator symbol flashes and not the HW one.

The App doesn't report that CH1 is on when it comes on with the other zones.

Like i said I followed the wiring advice from deezell for changing EPH to Drayton i.e. 3 to 2, 5 to 1 and 7 to 3. The only thing I could see that was slightly different was that I have 2 neutral and 2 live wires to terminate.

Just wondering if anybody has come across something similar before? Its as if the wires are crossed somewhere but I can't see any cuts in the cables.

These are the before and after pics

My boiler is a Glow worm Energy 25s, and the house is 6 months old.

Any advice would be great because when I scheduled this mornings HW heating the house turned into an oven and the missus couldn't figure out why the place was getting so hot. To add to that she turned on the manual bypass by mistake which meant I couldn't turn things off remotely! An hour and half of heating later and the place was boiling!

deezell · 03-12-2020 10:33pm

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Wonder if anyone can assist

Have Netatmo Thermostat and Radiator valves. Set up comfort schedule so heating comes on if temperature drops below set temperature.

Have valves set up with temperature. The valve can control the thermostat to turn on.

However we have stove installed and house is as hot as the Gobi Desert.

So what's the best way of heat in rads not coming on if we light the stove?

We don't light it up all the time so like the option of keeping existing schedule.

Is it case of setting up two different schedules.

Still trying to figure it out

The stove can't be controlled by the Netatmo, when you light it, the heat has to go somewhere. Is it a boiler stove? If so it will have a relay that powers the circulation pump pushing the stove water around the rads. If the rooms heat past the Netatmo temperatures, then the Netatmo won't turn on the oil/gas boiler, but it can't halt the stove heat going to the non TRV open rads. What you can do though is have the stove thermostat wired to cut the live to the Netatmo receiver relay so it doesn't fire the boiler when the stove is supplying heated water, say above 50°.
With your current setup a TRV room will not allow stove heated water through until its schedule, and then will probably fire the boiler anyway. Using the stove stat to cur the live will allow the TRVs open on their schedule but get their heated water from the stove until is dies down, whence it will revert to using the oil/gas boiler.
If your stove is not a boiler stove, you could still install a manual room stat close to the stove to detect it's heat when lit and override the Netatmo.

masterboy123 · 03-12-2020 10:33pm

Yes, i have tried the steps below but no joy

I have 2.4Ghz WiFi network with WPA2-PSK security type. On channel 11. Tried channel 6 before.

I have used a friend's phone also and made a new account with a hope it may work but no luck.

Not sure what to do now.

deezell wrote: »

Did you try power cycling the router after the last app step to see if will connect to the router on power up?

This below from drayton support when you change routers, and hub is disconnected from the new router. I don't know if it helps. The only thing I see is the security type. When you get to the last step on the app, the hub should connect to the router, then your phone app will see the hub via the router, not diectly as in the setup.

1. Open the Wiser Heat app.
3. Wait for the login to fail.
4. Click on 'Have you changed your Wi-Fi router?'
4. Make sure your router is on 2.4 gHz, is on channels 1, 6 or 11 and has WPA2-PSK security type.
4. Follow in app instructions to connect to your Wiser HubR
You should now be back in the app home screen and able to use the system as normal.

deezell · 04-12-2020 12:00am

Brianb8802 wrote: »

Hi all,
I took the plunge and picked up the Drayton Wiser 3 zone kit in the Black Friday sales to replace my EPH 3 zone ( 2 Heating & 1 Hot Water).

I changed everything over yesterday which was very easy when following deezell's advice a few pages back, but today things seem to be a bit mucked up. When I call for heat on Ch2 or HW it always seems to call CH1 for heat aswell.

I have completed a few tests to see what's going on:
When calling CH1, only CH1 comes on.

When calling CH2, CH2 and CH1 come on.

When calling HW, HW and CH1 comes on.

When individually calling each zone the correct light on the front of the hub lights up. i.e. when i call hot water only the hot water light comes on.

Checking the display on the boiler the radiator symbol lights up for CH1 and CH2, but when calling HW only the radiator symbol flashes and not the HW one.

The App doesn't report that CH1 is on when it comes on with the other zones.

Like i said I followed the wiring advice from deezell for changing EPH to Drayton i.e. 3 to 2, 5 to 1 and 7 to 3. The only thing I could see that was slightly different was that I have 2 neutral and 2 live wires to terminate.

Just wondering if anybody has come across something similar before? Its as if the wires are crossed somewhere but I can't see any cuts in the cables.

These are the before and after pics

My boiler is a Glow worm Energy 25s, and the house is 6 months old.

Any advice would be great because when I scheduled this mornings HW heating the house turned into an oven and the missus couldn't figure out why the place was getting so hot. To add to that she turned on the manual bypass by mistake which meant I couldn't turn things off remotely! An hour and half of heating later and the place was boiling!

On the face of it, it looks correct. You've substituted the wires correctly. You mention the boiler having ch and hw lamps. Are there zone valves built into the boiler? If your system was a standard 3 zone s plan, the boiler would not have a method of knowing what the call for heat was, HW or CH, unless the boiler was system boiler with its own valves for controlling flow.
Not withstanding that oddity, if your system has 3 seperate zone valves to direct the flow, the symptoms you describe exactly match a stuck or latched open CH1 valve. When called, it functions as normal, its relay calling the boiler, and hot flow going through the open valve. When the call is over, the boiler cuts, but the valve doesn't shut. Any call to CH2 or HW will open their valves, call the boiler, but also supply hot flow to CH1 as its valve hasn't closed. It sounds odd that you would get a fault coinciding with a change of controller, but check to see if the valve is latched, or stuck open.
Edit. The boiler symbols would be correct in showing the rad symbol for any call, as this boiler has no independent direct HW flow, just a single flow and return.

deezell · 04-12-2020 12:10am

I also meant to ask, what is this manual bypass?

deezell · 04-12-2020 12:21am

masterboy123 wrote: »

Yes, i have tried the steps below but no joy

I have 2.4Ghz WiFi network with WPA2-PSK security type. On channel 11. Tried channel 6 before.

I have used a friend's phone also and made a new account with a hope it may work but no luck.

Not sure what to do now.

It's just a temporary suggestion, but perhaps turn on Wi-Fi hot spot on one phone, use its ssid and pass to configure the hubr, then when you exit the apo on the configuring phone, see does the hubr connect to the hot spot AP. The connect the configuring phone back to the router ( or hot spot ap) and see if you now have a connection, and the flashing red is gone. There may be some conflict in the router, it may be trying to assign an ip address to the hubr that is already claimed, or maybe some security setting in the router is preventing or blacklisting the hubr connecting.

Brianb8802 · 04-12-2020 2:44am

deezell wrote: »

On the face of it, it looks correct. You've substituted the wires correctly. You mention the boiler having ch and hw lamps. Are there zone valves built into the boiler? If your system was a standard 3 zone s plan, the boiler would not have a method of knowing what the call for heat was, HW or CH, unless the boiler was system boiler with its own valves for controlling flow.
Not withstanding that oddity, if your system has 3 seperate zone valves to direct the flow, the symptoms you describe exactly match a stuck or latched open CH1 valve. When called, it functions as normal, its relay calling the boiler, and hot flow going through the open valve. When the call is over, the boiler cuts, but the valve doesn't shut. Any call to CH2 or HW will open their valves, call the boiler, but also supply hot flow to CH1 as its valve hasn't closed. It sounds odd that you would get a fault coinciding with a change of controller, but check to see if the valve is latched, or stuck open.
Edit. The boiler symbols would be correct in showing the rad symbol for any call, as this boiler has no independent direct HW flow, just a single flow and return.

Thanks deezel, the boiler is a system boiler with 3 EPH V221p valves in S plan. I thought the HW light came on with the EPH controller but since the wiring hasn't changed I must have been imagining it!

I had a look at the CH1 valve and it seemed to be ok, it was in auto and when I pushed the lever and left go and it returned back. I took the actuator off and turned the valve easily by hand, it only had a 1/4 turn but I presume this is standard. After putting it back together I tested the system and all seems to be back to normal again, so it must have just been stuck open like you said. Fingers crossed it will stay unstuck for now. Thanks again for the clear advice, it was an easy fix once you had laid it all out like you did.

Brianb8802 · 04-12-2020 2:55am

deezell wrote: »

I also meant to ask, what is this manual bypass?

On the hub if you hold the heating button in for 3 seconds it goes into a manual override for 2hrs. I wasn't able to stop this on the app.

Same for the water but this override last 1hr.

The manual says it is a failsafe incase the TRVs or thermostats become unresponsive.

masterboy123 · 04-12-2020 7:44am

It was a good suggestion and I saw light at the end of the tunnel but again no joy.

Made WiFi hot-spot from partners phone. The HubR didn't find the hot-spot but there was an option to manually write WiFi name and password, I did that and after 30 seconds it lost connection to HubR which was previously successful. So it didn't connect to WiFi hot-spot at all

But last night when I turned on the room thermostat, then I was able to use app successfully via home WiFi for about 1 min and again this morning. After about a min it starts searching hubR. Even when I go to Advanced settings of WiFi, I can see that Wiser is paired with home WiFi network.

It seems hubR is not able to sustain long term connection with home WiFi and keeps dropping but it is connected to home WiFi.

Could it be possible that HubR is defective and if I should try with another unit?

See attached image :

deezell wrote: »

It's just a temporary suggestion, but perhaps turn on Wi-Fi hot spot on one phone, use its ssid and pass to configure the hubr, then when you exit the apo on the configuring phone, see does the hubr connect to the hot spot AP. The connect the configuring phone back to the router ( or hot spot ap) and see if you now have a connection, and the flashing red is gone. There may be some conflict in the router, it may be trying to assign an ip address to the hubr that is already claimed, or maybe some security setting in the router is preventing or blacklisting the hubr connecting.

deezell · 04-12-2020 10:04am

masterboy123 wrote: »

It was a good suggestion and I saw light at the end of the tunnel but again no joy.

Made WiFi hot-spot from partners phone. The HubR didn't find the hot-spot but there was an option to manually write WiFi name and password, I did that and after 30 seconds it lost connection to HubR which was previously successful. So it didn't connect to WiFi hot-spot at all

But last night when I turned on the room thermostat, then I was able to use app successfully via home WiFi for about 1 min and again this morning. After about a min it starts searching hubR. Even when I go to Advanced settings of WiFi, I can see that Wiser is paired with home WiFi network.

It seems hubR is not able to sustain long term connection with home WiFi and keeps dropping but it is connected to home WiFi.

Could it be possible that HubR is defective and if I should try with another unit?

See attached image :

Seems like return is the only option. Without a direct connection, other than when using the hubr as an AP to the app, there is no direct way to say reinstall firmware or allow Wiser support to Connect remotely to it. I don't see any instructions for a factory reset of the hub, except a reference to it in Drayton support that it be done only in conjunction with support, but no how to instructions. Its probably pointless, but disconnecting it and trying it out with just mains power in a different location beside the router would be my last effort before boxing up and returning. You could also go to a friend's house, just to try a different router. It's like its rejecting the network, as if it had a different one already in its memory. I cant see that attached image btw.

Home heating automation

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