Home heating automation

paulgrogan.eu

deezell wrote: »

First thing, if your motorised valves are burning out motors, perhaps the valve is sticking and straining the motors. Replace the entire valve. They're cheap enough.

The Tado ext. kit in two zone mode, HW and CH, sends a live for either event. As you have no HW motorised valve , I assume HW is gravity fed, or by the pump, and HW is always heated when the boiler is on, regardless of which zone valves are open. In this case it's simple. The HW switched live (SL) from the ext. kit is connected to the boiler, the CH SL is connected to its zone valve, whose built in relay sends SL to the boiler. You'll need a second tado stat for the upstairs zone. This will also need to control its zone valve, which in turn calls the boiler. All three SLs are combined, the SL for HW an the two SLs from the valves, but NOT the CH SLs from the stat or the ext kit, otherwise all valves would open for any event.

Smart TRVs on some rads can be effectively used to call a zone from a room that cools quicker than the usually centrally located main stat. Ordinary TRVs can be used to cap heat in other rooms in that zone. Smart TRVs can be used to take out rooms in the zone not needed when the main stat for that zone triggers. One or two smart stats is a 5-6 room zone ( upstairs 4 bed house say), can be used to great effect to heat certain rooms above main landing stat setting, or to take out a little used room during a heating time Interval. Ordinary TRVs on other rooms will cap them from overheating, but don't put an ordinary TRV in the area of the main stat unless it's set to above the stat set temperature, so the rad can heat to the temperature set on the stat and turn off the boiler. Be aware that smart TRV motor noise in bedrooms can be disturbing to light sleepers.

Final note. As you have no stats, the ext. kit will give you one wireless stat, but you will have to wire in the other back to its zone valve. If this is a pita, consider drayton wiser, or hive where all stats are wireless, you just locate the receivers next to the motorised valves. Both of these have TRVs in their portfolio, I'll leave it to you to check homekit compatibility.

Wow Deezell this is amazing stuff, thank you.


So to answer a few questions there:
You could be right about the sticky valves, and given the quality of the Heatmerchants units we're probably going to change them over to Honeywell units, so no issues there. While the system is drained down, we are also going to add a third to the hotwater tank pipe, so that will, for all intensive purposes, give us 3 zones, Upstairs, Downstairs & HW tank.


Regarding the HW, yes, once the boiler is on the best I can do is manually turn off upstairs/downstairs rads and then I get hot water heating only/always. That's unstoppable. My tank is upstairs so I'd imagine it's pumped up from the boiler.


Does Tado measure the temperature of the HW? Or does it just heat all the time? Is there a boost option for the HW with Tado?


Thanks for the notes on the smart TRV's, that pretty much all stacks up alright, and I see where your going there with the layout. My logic in my head at the moment is to go with 8 in our most common rooms, and then set the older TRV's lower in the less common rooms just to keep some basic heat in them. Obviously long term the plan would be to use smart trv's on all rads (we've got 15 rads in the house).


So no, we've no stats at the moment, but I didn't realise Tado only allowed 1 wireless unit. This isn't really a big deal, as I was planning to locate one stat (now the wireless one) in the kitchen (3 rads in there) and then 1 on the upstairs landing, which could be put outside the hotpress which has a direct route down to the boiler area, so wiring that would be pretty simple.


Regarding the Drayton stuff, I can see they are a good bit cheaper (forget the Homekit compatibility for a moment). How would you rate them compared to Tado for example?


Thanks a million for your help, this is exactly what I needed.


Paul.

john_doe.

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

Wow Deezell this is amazing stuff, thank you.


So to answer a few questions there:
You could be right about the sticky valves, and given the quality of the Heatmerchants units we're probably going to change them over to Honeywell units, so no issues there. While the system is drained down, we are also going to add a third to the hotwater tank pipe, so that will, for all intensive purposes, give us 3 zones, Upstairs, Downstairs & HW tank.


Regarding the HW, yes, once the boiler is on the best I can do is manually turn off upstairs/downstairs rads and then I get hot water heating only/always. That's unstoppable. My tank is upstairs so I'd imagine it's pumped up from the boiler.


Does Tado measure the temperature of the HW? Or does it just heat all the time? Is there a boost option for the HW with Tado?


Thanks for the notes on the smart TRV's, that pretty much all stacks up alright, and I see where your going there with the layout. My logic in my head at the moment is to go with 8 in our most common rooms, and then set the older TRV's lower in the less common rooms just to keep some basic heat in them. Obviously long term the plan would be to use smart trv's on all rads (we've got 15 rads in the house).


So no, we've no stats at the moment, but I didn't realise Tado only allowed 1 wireless unit. This isn't really a big deal, as I was planning to locate one stat (now the wireless one) in the kitchen (3 rads in there) and then 1 on the upstairs landing, which could be put outside the hotpress which has a direct route down to the boiler area, so wiring that would be pretty simple.


Regarding the Drayton stuff, I can see they are a good bit cheaper (forget the Homekit compatibility for a moment). How would you rate them compared to Tado for example?


Thanks a million for your help, this is exactly what I needed.


Paul.

Just purchased the Drayton myself.
Unfortunately I'm still waiting on a plumber and electrician so haven't got it properly installed .

I did however wire a230V plug and connect up the 3 channel hub unit. I then fitted 2 stats ,9TRVs and 2 booster signals and connected it to app.

All was pretty seem less to be fair and simple to connect. The system isn't firing anything at present as I've nothing connected to the hub to drive boiler (hopefully can get someone to do wiring soon)

Can pick it up on Amazon deals.had the 3 channel at £131 on deal last week and the TRVs are now down to £34 each

There is also a Home Assistant object if want to bypass Drayton itself, this looks promising.

https://github.com/asantaga/wiserHomeAssistantPlatform/blob/master/Readme.Md

Also the stats and switches appear in Google home and work with Alexa and Voice.

Disadvantages I can see:
TRVs are slightly off on temperature and you can't manually offset them. They do appear to be tcalibrating I feel though and over last two days have settled down better.

For people working shift, a 2nd schedule would be nice where you can pick a schedule to a zone. Ideally I'd love for it to use Google calendar and schedule based on whether me or wife are working. Kinda realise this is what needed this day and age, maybe home assistant might have options, not sure any other options.

The UI is bit cluttered with all rooms listed, think the app itself could be visually improved and layed out better.

deezell

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

Does Tado measure the temperature of the HW? Or does it just heat all the time? Is there a boost option for the HW with Tado?

Paul.

No, but you can wire a simple mechanical stat fitted to the HW cylinder into the ext kit HW SL output, this will cut the boiler when the cylinder reaches the temperature on the stat. Otherwise the HW will heat until it approaches the boiler temperature, at which point the boiler will cycle on/off until the HW timer event ends.

The Tado app has boost for all zones, just tap on the zones display to enter manual mode and the default duration and temperature (ch zones) will show. Duration can be a preset time, at the next scheduled event, or manual end by user.

paulgrogan.eu

deezell wrote: »

No, but you can wire a simple mechanical stat fitted to the HW cylinder into the ext kit HW SL output, this will cut the boiler when the cylinder reaches the temperature on the stat. Otherwise the HW will heat until it approaches the boiler temperature, at which point the boiler will cycle on/off until the HW timer event ends.

The Tado app has boost for all zones, just tap on the zones display to enter manual mode and the default duration and temperature (ch zones) will show. Duration can be a preset time, at the next scheduled event, or manual end by user.

That's mega stuff and a nice note about the additional mechanical stat, I did wonder where Tado measured the HW temp. Does this show in the app? I can't help but feel that this element is pretty essential to prevent the system just heating the water over and over for the sake of it.


Thanks for the note on the boost. So when you say boost a zone, I assume a zone can be a single TRV for example (if connected to a single rad in a room and setup as a room) and then only that room gets a heat increase but the others (either on mechanic or smart trv's) just stay as is?

deezell

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

That's mega stuff and a nice note about the additional mechanical stat, I did wonder where Tado measured the HW temp. Does this show in the app? I can't help but feel that this element is pretty essential to prevent the system just heating the water over and over for the sake of it.


Thanks for the note on the boost. So when you say boost a zone, I assume a zone can be a single TRV for example (if connected to a single rad in a room and setup as a room) and then only that room gets a heat increase but the others (either on mechanic or smart trv's) just stay as is?

Tado doesn't 'know' the HW temperature. Tado just provides a timer schedule for HW events. These are basically boiler on/off, the mechanical cylinder stat can be added and set to your preferred HW temperature so that the boiler will cut when the HW reached target temperature. The Tado system has no feedback of this.

Some posters here install 3rd party cylinder stats with web access, such as SonOff, and with this you can see what temperature your HW is at, and change the trigger temperature for whatever reason. I said this many times before on this forum, turning HW on and off is a relic of our obsession with turning off the immersion. If you have a modern deep insulated cylinder, you don't really need timed events at all, just a thermostat on the cylinder to call the boiler to top it up. Once heated, the boiler switches off, the HW remains heated for days. The cost of keeping this hot store is trivial due to the low heat losses of these cylinders.
If you have a bare copper cylinder with a raggedy arsed lagging jacket down around it's ankles, then you are losing heat at a vast rate. The best smart heating investment you can make is to replace this with a modern one. You'll always have HW, no timers or meddling, and you'll save a stack in oil or gas.
Fwiw, tado can only report HW temperature when connected digitally (OpenTherm), and only from system boilers with direct HW heated on demand, with no cylinder storage. The only smart stat system I know off that has a system read cylinder probe for temperature is the Honeywell Evohome, pricey but loved by some.

In relation to boost on the app, it's zone by zone as you say.

budhabob

deezell wrote: »

Tado doesn't 'know' the HW temperature. Tado just provides a timer schedule for HW events. These are basically boiler on/off, the mechanical cylinder stat can be added and set to your preferred HW temperature so that the boiler will cut when the HW reached target temperature. The Tado system has no feedback of this.

Some posters here install 3rd party cylinder stats with web access, such as SonOff, and with this you can see what temperature your HW is at, and change the trigger temperature for whatever reason. I said this many times before on this forum, turning HW on and off is a relic of our obsession with turning off the immersion. If you have a modern deep insulated cylinder, you don't really need timed events at all, just a thermostat on the cylinder to call the boiler to top it up. Once heated, the boiler switches off, the HW remains heated for days. The cost of keeping this hot store is trivial due to the low heat losses of these cylinders.
If you have a bare copper cylinder with a raggedy arsed lagging jacket down around it's ankles, then you are losing heat at a vast rate. The best smart heating investment you can make is to replace this with a modern one. You'll always have HW, no timers or meddling, and you'll save a stack in oil or gas.
Fwiw, tado can only report HW temperature when connected digitally (OpenTherm), and only from system boilers with direct HW heated on demand, with no cylinder storage. The only smart stat system I know off that has a system read cylinder probe for temperature is the Honeywell Evohome, pricey but loved by some.

In relation to boost on the app, it's zone by zone as you say.

so.....just on this.

I have a nest set up, but put a stat on the cylinder when we go the bathroom done this year. As we're a terraced house, this means that occasionally the boiler kicks on during the night upsetting sleep. Can anything be done to limit the hours of use (i appreciate highly unlikely but said id ask)

Nokia08

Sorry I got no notification that this thread actually updated.

Timer functionality is minimal it basically just runs as a clock to turn on or off the heating system. And like I had said we only use the on/off feature to turn on the heating when we are in the house.

Thank you - I will look into this.

Having the dual step up would be awesome!

deezell

budhabob wrote: »

so.....just on this.

I have a nest set up, but put a stat on the cylinder when we go the bathroom done this year. As we're a terraced house, this means that occasionally the boiler kicks on during the night upsetting sleep. Can anything be done to limit the hours of use (i appreciate highly unlikely but said id ask)

Is the boiler coming on for CH or HW? Is your Nest wired for HW timing control, assuming its a generation 3 or 4 with HW relay on the heatlink, not a Nest E with CH only. Assuming HW timing is wired up, just set the schedule to off during night. If it's not wired up, it's not a big job to divert cylinder stat via heatlink relay.

deezell

Nokia08 wrote: »

Sorry I got no notification that this thread actually updated.

Timer functionality is minimal it basically just runs as a clock to turn on or off the heating system. And like I had said we only use the on/off feature to turn on the heating when we are in the house.

Thank you - I will look into this.

Having the dual step up would be awesome!

You could get the Drayton Wiser Kit 3, very well priced, and install the receiver next to the two switches and simply let it take over from the 2 zone Switched Lives currently coming from the switches. Competent DIY job or less than an hour for a sparks. Instant dual zone smart CH control. Same reciever can fire the boiler for HW only if ypu can run another wire from there to the boiler, or to the CH valves location where it can be linked to the combined boiler SLs coming from the valves' relays.

The_Scary_Man

deezell wrote: »

I said this many times before on this forum, turning HW on and off is a relic of our obsession with turning off the immersion. If you have a modern deep insulated cylinder, you don't really need timed events at all, just a thermostat on the cylinder to call the boiler to top it up. Once heated, the boiler switches off, the HW remains heated for days. The cost of keeping this hot store is trivial due to the low heat losses of these cylinders.

Hi Deezell,

I just moved in to a house that has a 3 zone (Upstairs/Downstairs/HW) system with solar panels for heating water, along with a stat on the cylinder. I'm still trying to get my head around how to best use the system.



As you say, I'm from the generation that has a primal fear of heating water that won't be used immediately. With the system we have is it then better to leave the HW on all the time? I presume that it will just heat up water then as it is used?

Even using thermostats to control the temperature in the two CH zones, I'm resistant to leaving the heating on for long periods of time. I still do what I've always done which is schedule the heating to come on in blocks of time rather than relying on the stats to manage the boiler. Is this a very inefficient way to use this system?

deezell

The_Scary_Man wrote: »

Hi Deezell,

I just moved in to a house that has a 3 zone (Upstairs/Downstairs/HW) system with solar panels for heating water, along with a stat on the cylinder. I'm still trying to get my head around how to best use the system.



As you say, I'm from the generation that has a primal fear of heating water that won't be used immediately. With the system we have is it then better to leave the HW on all the time? I presume that it will just heat up water then as it is used?

Even using thermostats to control the temperature in the two CH zones, I'm resistant to leaving the heating on for long periods of time. I still do what I've always done which is schedule the heating to come on in blocks of time rather than relying on the stats to manage the boiler. Is this a very inefficient way to use this system?

A HW tank like yours is very efficient, so just set the stat and it'll heat up as required. The savings from letting the tank cool until a scheduled timer slot are trivial, and you run the risk of having a cold tank of water while you wait for the next timer slot to kick in. Worst case is the risk of bacterial growth if contaminated cold water (as we've had) enters a warm but not hot tank, ideal for bacterial growth.
Back in this thread or maybe another one on AV forums I done the maths on a typical 200l tank set at about 65°, and the daily cost in oil for the lost heat was measured in cents. If you want you can stick a bit of that black pipe insulation on the rising HW pipe, and on the side flow pipes, that might save you a further few cents per day, equivalent to boiling a kettle or two.
For CH, smart stats make it so easy to be efficient and comfortable, because you don't just set on/off timer events for the heating, you set timed thermostat events, so the stat is automatically adjusted warmer and cooler to a schedule. Typically, 21° just before rising, 18-19° daytime if someone is at home, less if house empty, 16-19 at night time, or even lower. Geolocation mode can be used to turn it off completely or to a tick over temperature also when no one is home. Set up your schedule and tweak it till you're happy, but adjust the temperature as well as the timer.

The_Scary_Man

deezell wrote: »

A HW tank like yours is very efficient, so just set the stat and it'll heat up as required. The savings from letting the tank cool until a scheduled timer slot are trivial, and you run the risk of having a cold tank of water while you wait for the next timer slot to kick in. Worst case is the risk of bacterial growth if contaminated cold water (as we've had) enters a warm but not hot tank, ideal for bacterial growth.
Back in this thread or maybe another one on AV forums I done the maths on a typical 200l tank set at about 65°, and the daily cost in oil for the lost heat was measured in cents. If you want you can stick a bit of that black pipe insulation on the rising HW pipe, and on the side flow pipes, that might save you a further few cents per day, equivalent to boiling a kettle or two.
For CH, smart stats make it so easy to be efficient and comfortable, because you don't just set on/off timer events for the heating, you set timed thermostat events, so the stat is automatically adjusted warmer and cooler to a schedule. Typically, 21° just before rising, 18-19° daytime if someone is at home, less if house empty, 16-19 at night time, or even lower. Geolocation mode can be used to turn it off completely or to a tick over temperature also when no one is home. Set up your schedule and tweak it till you're happy, but adjust the temperature as well as the timer.

Thanks Deezell, this is really helpful and clarifies a lot for me around how the system is supposed to work as opposed to what I've been used to in the past.

I'm getting two Nests installed today so I'll start working out the schedule and temp settings for the house and work from there.

paulgrogan.eu

deezell wrote: »

Tado doesn't 'know' the HW temperature. Tado just provides a timer schedule for HW events. These are basically boiler on/off, the mechanical cylinder stat can be added and set to your preferred HW temperature so that the boiler will cut when the HW reached target temperature. The Tado system has no feedback of this.

Some posters here install 3rd party cylinder stats with web access, such as SonOff, and with this you can see what temperature your HW is at, and change the trigger temperature for whatever reason. I said this many times before on this forum, turning HW on and off is a relic of our obsession with turning off the immersion. If you have a modern deep insulated cylinder, you don't really need timed events at all, just a thermostat on the cylinder to call the boiler to top it up. Once heated, the boiler switches off, the HW remains heated for days. The cost of keeping this hot store is trivial due to the low heat losses of these cylinders.
If you have a bare copper cylinder with a raggedy arsed lagging jacket down around it's ankles, then you are losing heat at a vast rate. The best smart heating investment you can make is to replace this with a modern one. You'll always have HW, no timers or meddling, and you'll save a stack in oil or gas.
Fwiw, tado can only report HW temperature when connected digitally (OpenTherm), and only from system boilers with direct HW heated on demand, with no cylinder storage. The only smart stat system I know off that has a system read cylinder probe for temperature is the Honeywell Evohome, pricey but loved by some.

In relation to boost on the app, it's zone by zone as you say.

So taking this comment about the HW into account, and also the chat with Scary_Man below, what your saying here is to put a mechanical stat on the tank, set that (manually I'm guessing?) to say 65deg (again using your example with Scary_Man) and then Tado will just read that and call for the boiler to heat that HW zone as required to maintain the hotwater tank at 65deg? So in essence, I should always (12 months of the year) have a full hot tank of water courtesy of the boiler/calls from Tado, and thus not really need the boost unless we go mental with baths/showers etc.


Cheers

deezell

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

So taking this comment about the HW into account, and also the chat with Scary_Man below, what your saying here is to put a mechanical stat on the tank, set that (manually I'm guessing?) to say 65deg (again using your example with Scary_Man) and then Tado will just read that and call for the boiler to heat that HW zone as required to maintain the hotwater tank at 65deg? So in essence, I should always (12 months of the year) have a full hot tank of water courtesy of the boiler/calls from Tado, and thus not really need the boost unless we go mental with baths/showers etc.


Cheers

Sort of right idea, but Tado doesn't 'read" the manual stat, no device can, only you can, by looking at the dial. What happens is Tado simply turns on a live mains relay to signal the boiler to fire, but this live is fed via the manual cylinder stat, which cuts that live off when the temperature set on the manual stat os reached, and the boiler shuts off. Tado HW timer relay will remain live for its time period, that's all it knows. Nothing smart about it at all, you could use a Christmas tree plug timer for the same purpose. Sure, you can set the times remotely on the app, boost etc, but as I've said, with a fully insulated cylinder, you don't need HW timing, just a live to the stat which fires the boiler when HW is needed. As for boost, it has no function as HW timing is always on. If someone runs a bath the cylinder water will cool and the stat will fire the boiler till set HW temperature is reached, otherwise boiler stays off until HW (very slowly) cools down. One of the ironies of people trimming down HW time intervals is that the cooling HW reserve requires a bigger amount of heat to take it back to target temperature if its been timed off all night, so you're as well to keep it at temperature in small bursts of the boiler, rather than playing catch up in the morning. If you go away for a long period, say a month, nothing to stop you just turning the stat right down if you don't want the minor cost of keeping the tank full of HW while away. All this is predicated on having a fully insulated low heat loss cylinder like the one in the image above.
You can just use the ext kit as wireless for the CH stat, or wire the CH stat and not use an ext kit at all, many people just buy the CH smart stat and leave their HW on the manual cylinder stat only.

paulgrogan.eu

deezell wrote: »

Sort of right idea, but Tado doesn't 'read" the manual stat, no device can, only you can, by looking at the dial. What happens is Tado simply turns on a live mains relay to signal the boiler to fire, but this live is fed via the manual cylinder stat, which cuts that live off when the temperature set on the manual stat os reached, and the boiler shuts off. Tado HW timer relay will remain live for its time period, that's all it knows. Nothing smart about it at all, you could use a Christmas tree plug timer for the same purpose. Sure, you can set the times remotely on the app, boost etc, but as I've said, with a fully insulated cylinder, you don't need HW timing, just a live to the stat which fires the boiler when HW is needed. As for boost, it has no function as HW timing is always on. If someone runs a bath the cylinder water will cool and the stat will fire the boiler till set HW temperature is reached, otherwise boiler stays off until HW (very slowly) cools down. One of the ironies of people trimming down HW time intervals is that the cooling HW reserve requires a bigger amount of heat to take it back to target temperature if its been timed off all night, so you're as well to keep it at temperature in small bursts of the boiler, rather than playing catch up in the morning. If you go away for a long period, say a month, nothing to stop you just turning the stat right down if you don't want the minor cost of keeping the tank full of HW while away. All this is predicated on having a fully insulated low heat loss cylinder like the one in the image above.
You can just use the ext kit as wireless for the CH stat, or wire the CH stat and not use an ext kit at all, many people just buy the CH smart stat and leave their HW on the manual cylinder stat only.

Awesome stuff, thank you. As it goes I can’t see that image above for some reason, it appears to be blocked. I’m fairly sure I have that type of cylinder alright. It’s certainly not a saggy lagging jacket type I know for sure. But perhaps you could offer up a picture of what you consider the ideal tank.

Lastly, I’m a bit surprised that none of the smart systems offer a ‘smart’ integrated HW stat, rather than having to purchase a 3rd party one?

THE ALM

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

Lastly, I’m a bit surprised that none of the smart systems offer a ‘smart’ integrated HW stat, rather than having to purchase a 3rd party one?

If you are so inclined you could set up home assistant with a compatible sensor to achieve this.

I have Hive installed which is integrated into home assistant for heating and hot water. I have a 1-wire sensor on the tank which is also integrated into home assistant and I can then use the node-red addon to set up a routine to fire the boiler when the temp of the tank drops.

Irish Gunner

Moving House and have Netatmo installed and also have valves installed on the rads

So going to leave the Thermostat in the house but going to to take the rad valves and put old valves on

So going to unregister

I can see that Energia do a deal for installation but are there other options ou t there as wont be installing it myself and is it electrician that I would need to install it as energia installed current one

deezell

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

Awesome stuff, thank you. As it goes I can’t see that image above for some reason, it appears to be blocked. I’m fairly sure I have that type of cylinder alright. It’s certainly not a saggy lagging jacket type I know for sure. But perhaps you could offer up a picture of what you consider the ideal tank.

Lastly, I’m a bit surprised that none of the smart systems offer a ‘smart’ integrated HW stat, rather than having to purchase a 3rd party one?

Yes, Scary Man's cylinder picture seems to have vanished.
Here's a few.
Goodwins, Brooks, others sell these value for money encased copper.



These kingspan are high end fully enclosed.



As I posted earlier, Honeywell Evohome system has a digitally connected tank stat which reads water temperature to the app and display. Quite high end, plenty of fans of it on here.

budhabob

deezell wrote: »

Is the boiler coming on for CH or HW? Is your Nest wired for HW timing control, assuming its a generation 3 or 4 with HW relay on the heatlink, not a Nest E with CH only. Assuming HW timing is wired up, just set the schedule to off during night. If it's not wired up, it's not a big job to divert cylinder stat via heatlink relay.

its coming on for just HW - we put motorised valves in place for it. its a 3rd gen nest, but I cant pull up HW on the app, so I don't believe the HW is linked into it. Its set to the thermostat so just comes on itself.

deezell

budhabob wrote: »

its coming on for just HW - we put motorised valves in place for it. its a 3rd gen nest, but I cant pull up HW on the app, so I don't believe the HW is linked into it. Its set to the thermostat so just comes on itself.

Have a quick look under the cover of the heatlink box and see if there are a pair of wires going to the HW relay terminal on the heatlink, terminals 5 and 6.

paulgrogan.eu

deezell wrote: »

Yes, Scary Man's cylinder picture seems to have vanished.
Here's a few.
Goodwins, Brooks, others sell these value for money encased copper.



These kingspan are high end fully enclosed.



As I posted earlier, Honeywell Evohome system has a digitally connected tank stat which reads water temperature to the app and display. Quite high end, plenty of fans of it on here.

Ah perfect, I was fairly sure it was the top one I had, but just wanted to be sure.


Ah ok, gotcha on the Honeywell system. That looks like a good system too for sure, and I think ultimately I'm torn between Tado & Honeywell. They both feel like very strong systems. They're on the higher end of the price range for sure, but I guess like anything, you get what you pay for.


Thanks so much for all your help, this has been so helpful in trying to better understand this whole area.


P.

deezell

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

Ah perfect, I was fairly sure it was the top one I had, but just wanted to be sure.


Ah ok, gotcha on the Honeywell system. That looks like a good system too for sure, and I think ultimately I'm torn between Tado & Honeywell. They both feel like very strong systems. They're on the higher end of the price range for sure, but I guess like anything, you get what you pay for.


Thanks so much for all your help, this has been so helpful in trying to better understand this whole area.


P.

Such praise! I think I'm going to cry.

kenco

Folks any help much appreciated

Have a Danfoss controller that runs to heating zones (up and down stairs) and hot water (tank in hot press)

Was very interested in Hive as I thought I could to the install (receiver) myself but apparently to replicate what I have needs two Hive receivers and as there is only one backplate I reckon I need an electrician

So putting aside that Hive needs two boxes to do what Danfoss can do it one 'dumb' controller does anyone have thoughts here?

Alternative to Hive that will work with what I have (single backplane) or bite the bullet and get a second one wired and go with Hive?

Thanks in advance

deezell

kenco wrote: »

Folks any help much appreciated

Have a Danfoss controller that runs to heating zones (up and down stairs) and hot water (tank in hot press)...
.....Alternative to Hive that will work with what I have (single backplane) or bite the bullet and get a second one wired and go with Hive?

Thanks in advance

Drayton Wiser Kit3, 2 wireless stats and HW, has a single backplate, almost, but not quite, plug and play for 3 zone controllers. Post the Danfoss model no, I can check the backplate wiring and see. It's a doddle to swap to the wiser backplate, take a sparks minutes.

kenco

Fair play deezell

Its the Danfoss FP715si. Its the back plate that a single Hive receiver would fit straight onto. Hence the issue if I need two receivers (i.e. need to add/replace the backplate)

deezell

kenco wrote: »

Fair play deezell

Its the Danfoss FP715si. Its the back plate that a single Hive receiver would fit straight onto. Hence the issue if I need two receivers (i.e. need to add/replace the backplate)

This is a single CH zone and HW timer. Do have two CH wall stats for up/down ?

kenco

Yes stats upstairs and downstairs, separate zones

xl500

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

Awesome stuff, thank you. As it goes I can’t see that image above for some reason, it appears to be blocked. I’m fairly sure I have that type of cylinder alright. It’s certainly not a saggy lagging jacket type I know for sure. But perhaps you could offer up a picture of what you consider the ideal tank.

Lastly, I’m a bit surprised that none of the smart systems offer a ‘smart’ integrated HW stat, rather than having to purchase a 3rd party one?

+1 for Evohome as stated above Evohome has an integrated stat also its a great system and easily does what you want as well as dedicated underfloor heating, control dedicated Electric Zones, opentherm no other system can do what it does and its a heating control designed as a heating control

steedevaney

THE ALM wrote: »

If you are so inclined you could set up home assistant with a compatible sensor to achieve this.

I have Hive installed which is integrated into home assistant for heating and hot water. I have a 1-wire sensor on the tank which is also integrated into home assistant and I can then use the node-red addon to set up a routine to fire the boiler when the temp of the tank drops.

Would you mind expanding on the 1-wire sensor set up?

deezell

kenco wrote: »

Yes stats upstairs and downstairs, separate zones

Check the rightmost wiring terminal on the Danfoss, no 4, CH on. If there aren't two separate wires leaving this, one to each stat, then there will be a bit of extra wiring required to reach the CH zone valves from whichever receiver(s) you use. A simple alternative which is DIY, is to install two Tado or two Hive wired stats in place of the old ones and leave the Danfoss for HW, turning CH on it to always on.