Ireland U20 2015 6 nations and junior world cup

Hagz · 20-09-2014 9:57pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Isn't O'Donoghue that winger who was out of favour for the rest of the interpro's for some reason? Remember being very impressed by him watching a schools game a year or two ago

Yes, although I don't know if he was out of favour or carrying a knock. I would have thought he was the best winger of this age group.

The Lost Sheep · 20-09-2014 11:12pm

Hagz wrote: »

Full time Leinster 61 - 34 Connacht.

Connacht try scorers: Lowndes (2) , Penny, McVeigh, Leahy

Leinster try scorers: Oliver (3), Loughman (2), O'Donoghue (2), Murphy, Rock

Super game. Lowndes the Connacht scrum half was my man of the match though Oliver was very good as was Porter. Connacht started strong and took the lead initially but Leinster power through Oliver and Loughman was very difficult to stop.

Connacht should have plenty in Irish set up on basis of today. Potentially a fantastic irish side this year

Hagz · 20-09-2014 11:35pm

Seems like there's a lot of good half-back options this year.

Tox56 · 21-09-2014 12:15am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Super game. Lowndes the Connacht scrum half was my man of the match though Oliver was very good as was Porter. Connacht started strong and took the lead initially but Leinster power through Oliver and Loughman was very difficult to stop.

Connacht should have plenty in Irish set up on basis of today. Potentially a fantastic irish side this year

How much of the Irish squad from last year is still available?

Hagz · 21-09-2014 12:19am

In terms of the JWC squad and 6N from last season.

11.

Tox56 · 21-09-2014 10:25am

Hagz wrote: »

In terms of the JWC squad and 6N from last season.

11.

Wow, could be a big chance to do well this year, all the provinces look strong too

ArmchairQB · 21-09-2014 11:09am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Super game. Lowndes the Connacht scrum half was my man of the match though Oliver was very good as was Porter. Connacht started strong and took the lead initially but Leinster power through Oliver and Loughman was very difficult to stop.

Connacht should have plenty in Irish set up on basis of today. Potentially a fantastic irish side this year

I would hazard a guess that when the squad is announced that very few will still be associated with Connacht and most likely with Leinster clubs

RobbieRuns · 21-09-2014 11:37am

Is that two years in a row that Munster have lost every game in the 20's interpros?

Connacht had two victories last year and two players I think on the JWC squad, with only one win over Munster this campaign, I would not be more hopeful of greater representation ! Mind you Gaffney and Maloney were the two and both are young enough this year, so I would say they will both get in fitness allowing.

Wonder how many Munster will get in?

The Lost Sheep · 21-09-2014 4:50pm

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Is that two years in a row that Munster have lost every game in the 20's interpros?

Connacht had two victories last year and two players I think on the JWC squad, with only one win over Munster this campaign, I would not be more hopeful of greater representation ! Mind you Gaffney and Maloney were the two and both are young enough this year, so I would say they will both get in fitness allowing.

Wonder how many Munster will get in?

It is. Munster need to do something about their systems and development through from the bottom up...
Conor Lowndes has to be involved with Ireland on the basis of his performance yesterday. Leinster and Ulster to dominate the squad. Hard to say about the other 2 provinces

Leinster88 · 22-09-2014 11:39am

Connacht might have 4 players involved that will be it: Moloney, Gaffney, Lowndes & O'Donnell. Potentially Kyne too but can't see much more than that.

Hagz · 22-09-2014 12:26pm

I would have thought Stephen McVeigh would be a possibility as well.

Leinster88 · 22-09-2014 12:32pm

Hagz wrote: »

I would have thought Stephen McVeigh would be a possibility as well.

Possibly but he is a bit one dimensional.. has a chance though you are right.

Amazing Leinster still finished second considering how many players they were missing due to injury, the academy or rested post JWC.

Had the youngest team out too with Porter, Power, Reilly, Jones, Gilsenan & O'Brien involved.

If the under-19's had stayed with the under-19 team they could have won the interpros even more convincingly than they did.

ArmchairQB · 22-09-2014 1:10pm

Hagz wrote: »

In terms of the JWC squad and 6N from last season.

11.

Didn't think there were that many! That is a great help, is that the most we have ever had elgible for a 2nd time?

Stan27 · 22-09-2014 1:16pm

Leinster88 wrote: »

Connacht might have 4 players involved that will be it: Moloney, Gaffney, Lowndes & O'Donnell. Potentially Kyne too but can't see much more than that.

What about ridgeway ( plays 12) ment to e very good and played in lansdown last year

Hagz · 22-09-2014 1:37pm

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Didn't think there were that many! That is a great help, is that the most we have ever had elgible for a 2nd time?

Couldn't tell you, but I would be confident that it is.

Stan27 wrote: »

What about ridgeway ( plays 12) ment to e very good and played in lansdown last year

The competition at 12 is pretty fierce. Harrison Brewer is a guarantee if he's fit. And then you have Fergal Cleary and Conor McKee.

The Lost Sheep · 22-09-2014 1:39pm

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Didn't think there were that many! That is a great help, is that the most we have ever had elgible for a 2nd time?

It was 9 or 10 who were involved. Definitely the most who could come back for a second world cup

Leinster88 wrote: »

Possibly but he is a bit one dimensional.. has a chance though you are right.

Amazing Leinster still finished second considering how many players they were missing due to injury, the academy or rested post JWC.

Had the youngest team out too with Porter, Power, Reilly, Jones, Gilsenan & O'Brien involved.

If the under-19's had stayed with the under-19 team they could have won the interpros even more convincingly than they did.

Not that amazing they finished second considering how strong Leinster have been at this age group all through from u18 and up
If Under 19s had stayed with under 19 team... irrelevant. Better for Leinster and Ireland that they didn't. More players were looked at as a result of them playing up

Leinster88 wrote: »

Connacht might have 4 players involved that will be it: Moloney, Gaffney, Lowndes & O'Donnell. Potentially Kyne too but can't see much more than that.

Moynihan and Romaine wouldn't be far off either

Hagz · 22-09-2014 1:45pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It was 9 or 10 who were involved. Definitely the most who could come back for a second world cup

1. Sean McNulty (was involved in the 6nations for the England, Italy and France game)
2. Oisin Heffernan
3. Joshua Murphy
4. Rory Moloney
5. Nick McCarthy
6. Jack Cullen
7. Ross Byrne
8. Harrison Brewer
9. Garry Ringrose
10. Ciaran Gaffney
11. Billy Dardis

ArmchairQB · 22-09-2014 2:03pm

Hagz wrote: »

1. Sean McNulty (was involved in the 6nations for the England, Italy and France game)
2. Oisin Heffernan
3. Joshua Murphy
4. Rory Moloney
5. Nick McCarthy
6. Jack Cullen
7. Ross Byrne
8. Harrison Brewer
9. Garry Ringrose
10. Ciaran Gaffney
11. Billy Dardis

I don't see Munster coming out well in selection this year and personally think McNulty is way to tall for hooker

Leinster88 · 22-09-2014 2:24pm

Hookers a weak enough spot.. it will be mcnulty with probably mccall on the bench.

Moynihan wont get near the team unless therr are heavy injuries.

Romaine might if injuries are a factor but Thompson and Ryan and O'Connor are streets ahead of him.

ArmchairQB · 22-09-2014 3:59pm

Leinster88 wrote: »

Hookers a weak enough spot.. it will be mcnulty with probably mccall on the bench.

Moynihan wont get near the team unless therr are heavy injuries.

Romaine might if injuries are a factor but Thompson and Ryan and O'Connor are streets ahead of him.

Leinster Hooker McKenna seemed to go well enough for interpro's

lukey967 · 22-09-2014 9:27pm

Hagz wrote: »

Couldn't tell you, but I would be confident that it is.

The competition at 12 is pretty fierce. Harrison Brewer is a guarantee if he's fit. And then you have Fergal Cleary and Conor McKee.

Would not say Harrison Brewer is a Guarentee. IMO he is overrated.
Think Fergal Cleary would go very well at 12. Big guy and a good distributor

Hagz · 22-09-2014 10:09pm

lukey967 wrote: »

Would not say Harrison Brewer is a Guarentee. IMO he is overrated.

I don't think it's really debatable. Ruddock picked him last year when he was a year young and wasn't in an academy. He's not going to overlook him now when he's been a part of his squad already and is in the Leinster Academy.

The Brewer Ringrose combo is the thing I'm most excited about for this years u20s.

ArmchairQB · 23-09-2014 9:12am

Hagz wrote: »

I don't think it's really debatable. Ruddock picked him last year when he was a year young and wasn't in an academy. He's not going to overlook him now when he's been a part of his squad already and is in the Leinster Academy.

The Brewer Ringrose combo is the thing I'm most excited about for this years u20s.

Can see both of them being involved IF FIT! Brewer has an unfortuanate injury record, he hasn't lived up to his hype but I always thought there was to much said about him and it is this season that he should be judged on. Cleary if I was coach would be a far safer option, also covers 10 and displays the agressivness you want from a 12 both in attack and defence. Big year for Brewer

RedemptionZ · 24-09-2014 1:43am

What do people think of Ringrose in potential? I didn't rate him much up until last year where he seriously impressed. Still not sure if his size and athletic ability is up to international standard but he at the very least seems like he could make it pro, serious flair in the lad. Haven't seen enough of him to judge but with the right coaching reckon he could make it to an Ireland XV at some stage. Here's hoping.

Hagz · 24-09-2014 2:24am

I didn't think he had any shot of playing for Ireland u19 never mind playing for u20s a year young and being nominated for player of the jwc. I thought all the hype around him was solely on the back of his goal kicking. Obviously I was proved very wrong.

He was great last season, and his performance against Wales was outstanding. I'd like to see him play for the 'A' team or in the AIL before I judge his potential though. He looks to have bulked up a bit looking at the interpro pics which is a positive.

RobbieRuns · 24-09-2014 8:30am

No doubt that Ringrose did well last year, especially in the JWC but I think that he will get a run for his money from Sam Arnold of Ulster. Outstanding rugby player who was injured last year.

ArmchairQB · 24-09-2014 12:54pm

Squad in very good shape this year. Top 4 with not the greatest and a pretty young squad last year would be hoping for better again this season with experience and extra quality coming in from this year

Stainalert · 24-09-2014 1:35pm

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Squad in very good shape this year. Top 4 with not the greatest and a pretty young squad last year would be hoping for better again this season with experience and extra quality coming in from this year

Agree think a top 4 with a young squad last year depleted significantly by injuries was an outstanding achievement and a far cry from a few years back when we really struggled in this competition. Bodes well for this years competition.

RobbieRuns · 24-09-2014 2:26pm

If it is the JWC 4th that you are referring to, it was a good achievement but to be realistic, the truth is we had a great draw. This year with the baby blacks in our group it is going to be harder. Not dampening enthusiasm or anything just keeping expectations at the right level.

Our six nations performance last year was not what it should have been only beating Scotland and Italy, so I would concentrate on improving on that and then take it from there.

Stainalert · 24-09-2014 3:08pm

RobbieRuns wrote: »

If it is the JWC 4th that you are referring to, it was a good achievement but to be realistic, the truth is we had a great draw. This year with the baby blacks in our group it is going to be harder. Not dampening enthusiasm or anything just keeping expectations at the right level.

Our six nations performance last year was not what it should have been only beating Scotland and Italy, so I would concentrate on improving on that and then take it from there.

Very harsh

bilston · 24-09-2014 3:28pm

How we do in tournament terms at U20 level is not that high up in my list of priorities as far as Irish rugby is concerned. What matters more IMO is player development and how many players make the jump from U20s to provincial and in some cases international level.

On that basis it is a bit early to judge the class of 2014, (that said Henshaw and Olding are already full internationals from the 2013 side) especially as so many of them have another year to go, but long term that matters more than whether we get a top 4 finish or not.

That said it goes without saying that the better you do the more likely it is you will have better players with the potential to kick on.

The Lost Sheep · 24-09-2014 4:08pm

RedemptionZ wrote: »

What do people think of Ringrose in potential? I didn't rate him much up until last year where he seriously impressed. Still not sure if his size and athletic ability is up to international standard but he at the very least seems like he could make it pro, serious flair in the lad. Haven't seen enough of him to judge but with the right coaching reckon he could make it to an Ireland XV at some stage. Here's hoping.

Very good. He had a lot of hype around him due to his last year in school but did live up to it. Hope he can progress further and spends majority of this season playing adult rugby and only age grade rugby he plays is international games for 20s

RobbieRuns wrote: »

If it is the JWC 4th that you are referring to, it was a good achievement but to be realistic, the truth is we had a great draw. This year with the baby blacks in our group it is going to be harder. Not dampening enthusiasm or anything just keeping expectations at the right level.

Our six nations performance last year was not what it should have been only beating Scotland and Italy, so I would concentrate on improving on that and then take it from there.

That's a slight bit harsh. The draw helped to an extent but the performances were up tenfold from the world championships from the 6nations and we did well.

bilston wrote: »

How we do in tournament terms at U20 level is not that high up in my list of priorities as far as Irish rugby is concerned. What matters more IMO is player development and how many players make the jump from U20s to provincial and in some cases international level.

On that basis it is a bit early to judge the class of 2014, (that said Henshaw and Olding are already full internationals from the 2013 side) especially as so many of them have another year to go, but long term that matters more than whether we get a top 4 finish or not.

That said it goes without saying that the better you do the more likely it is you will have better players with the potential to kick on.

+1

Did anyone go to the Under 20 cups in Blackrock or Waterpark at the weekend?
UL Bohemians, Dolphin, NUI Barnhall, Clonakilty/Kinsale, Midleton, Ballincollig and WIT/Waterpark competed in Waterpark while Trinity x 2, Blackrock, Terenure, UCC, Garryowen all competed In Blackrock

kingofthekong · 24-09-2014 5:37pm

anyone wanna have a stab at the starting xv for the 6 nations, or alternatively the best xv we could field

SBTRKT90 · 24-09-2014 5:51pm

1. Jeremy Loughman
2. Sean McNulty
3. Oisin Heffernan
4. Alex Thompson
5. Frank Bradshaw Ryan
6. Josh Murphy
7. Rory Moloney
8. Lorcan Dow
9. Nick McCarthy
10. Ross Byrne
11. Jack Owens
12. Harrison Brewer
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Ciaran Gaffney
15. Billy Dardis
16. Zach McCall
17. Michael Lagan
18. Conan O'Donnell
19. David O'Connor
20. Conor Oliver
21. Conor Young
22. Sean O'Hagan
23. Jacob Stockdale

Hagz · 24-09-2014 5:55pm

That's a pretty good job of it. Only thing I'd change is I'd start O'Connor and I'd prefer to have an impact scrum-half with some pace like Lowndes or Rock.

For me that's the strongest front-row combination but I wonder will Loughman remain at tight-head.

The Lost Sheep · 24-09-2014 6:01pm

SBTRKT90 wrote: »

1. Jeremy Loughman
2. Sean McNulty
3. Oisin Heffernan
4. Alex Thompson
5. Frank Bradshaw Ryan
6. Josh Murphy
7. Rory Moloney
8. Lorcan Dow
9. Nick McCarthy
10. Ross Byrne
11. Jack Owens
12. Harrison Brewer
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Ciaran Gaffney
15. Billy Dardis
16. Zach McCall
17. Michael Lagan
18. Conan O'Donnell
19. David O'Connor
20. Conor Oliver
21. Conor Young
22. Sean O'Hagan
23. Jacob Stockdale

That's fairly good. Lowndes on basis of performance I saw him put in against Leinster has to be involved as he was best player on the pitch
Luke O Leary, Cian Romaine and Steve McMahon IMO could be close enough

SBTRKT90 · 24-09-2014 6:06pm

one performance doesn't mean a hole lot, he, Young and Rock will probably battle it out for backup SH.

Luke O'Leary? don't see it, if there is going to be a Munster backrow it will be ben kilkenny.
Cian Romaine? he is fine but behind the 3 i named.
Steve McMahon? don't see it, Stephen Fitzgerald on the other hand..

Stainalert · 24-09-2014 6:08pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That's fairly good. Lowndes on basis of performance I saw him put in against Leinster has to be involved as he was best player on the pitch
Luke O Leary, Cian Romaine and Steve McMahon IMO could be close enough

What are the options at loosehead and tighthead?

SBTRKT90 · 24-09-2014 6:08pm

Hagz wrote: »

That's a pretty good job of it. Only thing I'd change is I'd start O'Connor and I'd prefer to have an impact scrum-half with some pace like Lowndes or Rock.

For me that's the strongest front-row combination but I wonder will Loughman remain at tight-head.

if he does Andrew Porter may be a strong contender.. along with Lagan

The Lost Sheep · 24-09-2014 6:08pm

SBTRKT90 wrote: »

one performance doesn't mean a hole lot, he, Young and Rock will probably battle it out for backup SH.

Luke O'Leary? don't see it, if there is going to be a Munster backrow it will be ben kilkenny.
Cian Romaine? he is fine but behind the 3 i named.
Steve McMahon? don't see it, Stephen Fitzgerald on the other hand..

That's just the game I saw. He supposedly was super in the other games as well.
Never know about O Leary but yes Kilkenny probably is a better bet and same for Fitzgerald over McMahon

SBTRKT90 · 24-09-2014 6:10pm

Stainalert wrote: »

What are the options at loosehead and tighthead?

LH
Michael Lagan
Conor Kyne
Liam O'Connor
Andrew Porter(under-19)

TH
Oisin Heffernan
Jeremy Loughman
Angelo Marica
Mike O'Donnell
Conan O'Donnell(under-19)

Loughman could play LH easily enough though.

ArmchairQB · 24-09-2014 6:15pm

SBTRKT90 wrote: »

if he does Andrew Porter may be a strong contender.. along with Lagan

I think It will be Loughman and Porter, with Heffernan on the bench or other way around but would expect Porter to be involved. Phelan from Newbridge might have a chance but he will be behind Loughman in UCD so won't get much chance to impress would expect Cleary from Clongowes to be involved as well. Camp later next month and would expect all to be there and looked at up close

The Lost Sheep · 24-09-2014 6:20pm

ArmchairQB wrote: »

I think It will be Loughman and Porter, with Heffernan on the bench or other way around but would expect Porter to be involved. Phelan from Newbridge might have a chance but he will be behind Loughman in UCD so won't get much chance to impress would expect Cleary from Clongowes to be involved as well. Camp later next month and would expect all to be there and looked at up close

Hopefully Cleary will be involved. Played Irish Youths, Schools and 19s so should be there or there abouts with 20s. Only played 2 of the interpros though
Wonder what level Cleary will be playing in Lansdowne this season? Would be great shame if he only really plays under 20 level

SBTRKT90 · 24-09-2014 6:25pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Hopefully Cleary will be involved. Played Irish Youths, Schools and 19s so should be there or there abouts with 20s. Only played 2 of the interpros though
Wonder what level Cleary will be playing in Lansdowne this season? Would be great shame if he only really plays under 20 level

well he isn't going to be playing senior ahead of Tom Daly, Mark Roche, Tom Farrell or Scott Deasy.

Cleary is a nice player but his physical shortcomings may be exposed this season at this level.

Also nearly all under-20's players play only 20's in Leinster bar the odd few exceptions.. it hasn't hurt the Leinster players.

ArmchairQB · 24-09-2014 6:27pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Hopefully Cleary will be involved. Played Irish Youths, Schools and 19s so should be there or there abouts with 20s. Only played 2 of the interpros though
Wonder what level Cleary will be playing in Lansdowne this season? Would be great shame if he only really plays under 20 level

very few players playing 1a straight out of school, actually not permitted in UCD but if he is good enough he is old enough, I think he was injured for last two interpros. They have a pretty young team and I know a lot of their under 20's played AIL for the final one or two games last year, not sure but assume they are all around again this year

kingofthekong · 24-09-2014 7:19pm

think nicholas timoney will be involved in some capacity depending on form he could even start imo , havent seen any of conor o'brien anyone reckon he has a chance?

Stainalert · 24-09-2014 7:21pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Hopefully Cleary will be involved. Played Irish Youths, Schools and 19s so should be there or there abouts with 20s. Only played 2 of the interpros though
Wonder what level Cleary will be playing in Lansdowne this season? Would be great shame if he only really plays under 20 level

Why would it be a shame? I can think of several full pro's who took a year at 20's - Worst thing to do is to rush a player into senior level when he is not ready. UCD and Lansdowne have done a pretty good job of bringing players through to pro ranks so I would reckon Cleary is in good hands whatever level he plays this season. Also if he is getting injured in interpros it might suggest he is better off at 20s level whilst his body gets up to speed

ArmchairQB · 24-09-2014 7:27pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

think nicholas timoney will be involved in some capacity depending on form he could even start imo , havent seen any of conor o'brien anyone reckon he has a chance?

Some strong 8's this year but he has a decent chance of making it

The Lost Sheep · 25-09-2014 3:39pm

ArmchairQB wrote: »

very few players playing 1a straight out of school, actually not permitted in UCD but if he is good enough he is old enough, I think he was injured for last two interpros. They have a pretty young team and I know a lot of their under 20's played AIL for the final one or two games last year, not sure but assume they are all around again this year

There has been a considerable number over the years. Not many regularly do but if good enough you're old enough. Is it really not permitted in UCD?

kingofthekong wrote: »

think nicholas timoney will be involved in some capacity depending on form he could even start imo , havent seen any of conor o'brien anyone reckon he has a chance?

O Brien's a very good player but as an u19 may not be involved.

Stainalert wrote: »

Why would it be a shame? I can think of several full pro's who took a year at 20's - Worst thing to do is to rush a player into senior level when he is not ready. UCD and Lansdowne have done a pretty good job of bringing players through to pro ranks so I would reckon Cleary is in good hands whatever level he plays this season. Also if he is getting injured in interpros it might suggest he is better off at 20s level whilst his body gets up to speed

Don't see this as rushing a player into senior level. Just feel its disappointing to see loads of top underage players stockpiled in a few clubs playing 20s when they could be playing adult rugby and testing themselves more.

Can anyone help me with this. Below are winners and runners up of the Frazer McMullan All Ireland under 20 cup for last 20 years or so. I cant find the runners up for some of the years so can anyone help me?

2014 Cork Con Terenure
2013 Lansdowne Trinity
2012 UCD Old Belvedere
2011 UCD Lansdowne
2010 UCC Lansdowne
2009 UL Bohemians Blackrock
2008 UL Bohemians Lansdowne
2007 UCC Blackrock
2006 Shannon Trinity
2005 Trinity
2004 UCC Belfast Harlequins
2003 Trinity
2002 UCC Bruff
2001 Bruff UCC
2000 Garryowen
1999 Lansdowne
1998 Blackrock
1997 Blackrock
1996 UCC

RedemptionZ · 25-09-2014 5:33pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Don't see this as rushing a player into senior level. Just feel its disappointing to see loads of top underage players stockpiled in a few clubs playing 20s when they could be playing adult rugby and testing themselves more.

Injury is an issue though, not many come straight out of school with enough size to play Seniors at a competitive level. There are exceptions obviously, like Peter Robb, who I believe is playing senior for Belvo this year despite being eligible for 20s.

Ireland U20 2015 6 nations and junior world cup

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