Ireland U20 2015 6 nations and junior world cup

bilston

How we do in tournament terms at U20 level is not that high up in my list of priorities as far as Irish rugby is concerned. What matters more IMO is player development and how many players make the jump from U20s to provincial and in some cases international level.

On that basis it is a bit early to judge the class of 2014, (that said Henshaw and Olding are already full internationals from the 2013 side) especially as so many of them have another year to go, but long term that matters more than whether we get a top 4 finish or not.

That said it goes without saying that the better you do the more likely it is you will have better players with the potential to kick on.

The Lost Sheep

RedemptionZ wrote: »

What do people think of Ringrose in potential? I didn't rate him much up until last year where he seriously impressed. Still not sure if his size and athletic ability is up to international standard but he at the very least seems like he could make it pro, serious flair in the lad. Haven't seen enough of him to judge but with the right coaching reckon he could make it to an Ireland XV at some stage. Here's hoping.

Very good. He had a lot of hype around him due to his last year in school but did live up to it. Hope he can progress further and spends majority of this season playing adult rugby and only age grade rugby he plays is international games for 20s

RobbieRuns wrote: »

If it is the JWC 4th that you are referring to, it was a good achievement but to be realistic, the truth is we had a great draw. This year with the baby blacks in our group it is going to be harder. Not dampening enthusiasm or anything just keeping expectations at the right level.

Our six nations performance last year was not what it should have been only beating Scotland and Italy, so I would concentrate on improving on that and then take it from there.

That's a slight bit harsh. The draw helped to an extent but the performances were up tenfold from the world championships from the 6nations and we did well.

bilston wrote: »

How we do in tournament terms at U20 level is not that high up in my list of priorities as far as Irish rugby is concerned. What matters more IMO is player development and how many players make the jump from U20s to provincial and in some cases international level.

On that basis it is a bit early to judge the class of 2014, (that said Henshaw and Olding are already full internationals from the 2013 side) especially as so many of them have another year to go, but long term that matters more than whether we get a top 4 finish or not.

That said it goes without saying that the better you do the more likely it is you will have better players with the potential to kick on.

+1


Did anyone go to the Under 20 cups in Blackrock or Waterpark at the weekend?
UL Bohemians, Dolphin, NUI Barnhall, Clonakilty/Kinsale, Midleton, Ballincollig and WIT/Waterpark competed in Waterpark while Trinity x 2, Blackrock, Terenure, UCC, Garryowen all competed In Blackrock

kingofthekong

anyone wanna have a stab at the starting xv for the 6 nations, or alternatively the best xv we could field

SBTRKT90

1. Jeremy Loughman
2. Sean McNulty
3. Oisin Heffernan
4. Alex Thompson
5. Frank Bradshaw Ryan
6. Josh Murphy
7. Rory Moloney
8. Lorcan Dow
9. Nick McCarthy
10. Ross Byrne
11. Jack Owens
12. Harrison Brewer
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Ciaran Gaffney
15. Billy Dardis
16. Zach McCall
17. Michael Lagan
18. Conan O'Donnell
19. David O'Connor
20. Conor Oliver
21. Conor Young
22. Sean O'Hagan
23. Jacob Stockdale

Hagz

That's a pretty good job of it. Only thing I'd change is I'd start O'Connor and I'd prefer to have an impact scrum-half with some pace like Lowndes or Rock.

For me that's the strongest front-row combination but I wonder will Loughman remain at tight-head.

The Lost Sheep

SBTRKT90 wrote: »

1. Jeremy Loughman
2. Sean McNulty
3. Oisin Heffernan
4. Alex Thompson
5. Frank Bradshaw Ryan
6. Josh Murphy
7. Rory Moloney
8. Lorcan Dow
9. Nick McCarthy
10. Ross Byrne
11. Jack Owens
12. Harrison Brewer
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Ciaran Gaffney
15. Billy Dardis
16. Zach McCall
17. Michael Lagan
18. Conan O'Donnell
19. David O'Connor
20. Conor Oliver
21. Conor Young
22. Sean O'Hagan
23. Jacob Stockdale

That's fairly good. Lowndes on basis of performance I saw him put in against Leinster has to be involved as he was best player on the pitch
Luke O Leary, Cian Romaine and Steve McMahon IMO could be close enough

SBTRKT90

one performance doesn't mean a hole lot, he, Young and Rock will probably battle it out for backup SH.

Luke O'Leary? don't see it, if there is going to be a Munster backrow it will be ben kilkenny.
Cian Romaine? he is fine but behind the 3 i named.
Steve McMahon? don't see it, Stephen Fitzgerald on the other hand..

Stainalert

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That's fairly good. Lowndes on basis of performance I saw him put in against Leinster has to be involved as he was best player on the pitch
Luke O Leary, Cian Romaine and Steve McMahon IMO could be close enough

What are the options at loosehead and tighthead?

SBTRKT90

Hagz wrote: »

That's a pretty good job of it. Only thing I'd change is I'd start O'Connor and I'd prefer to have an impact scrum-half with some pace like Lowndes or Rock.

For me that's the strongest front-row combination but I wonder will Loughman remain at tight-head.

if he does Andrew Porter may be a strong contender.. along with Lagan

The Lost Sheep

SBTRKT90 wrote: »

one performance doesn't mean a hole lot, he, Young and Rock will probably battle it out for backup SH.

Luke O'Leary? don't see it, if there is going to be a Munster backrow it will be ben kilkenny.
Cian Romaine? he is fine but behind the 3 i named.
Steve McMahon? don't see it, Stephen Fitzgerald on the other hand..

That's just the game I saw. He supposedly was super in the other games as well.
Never know about O Leary but yes Kilkenny probably is a better bet and same for Fitzgerald over McMahon

SBTRKT90

Stainalert wrote: »

What are the options at loosehead and tighthead?

LH
Michael Lagan
Conor Kyne
Liam O'Connor
Andrew Porter(under-19)

TH
Oisin Heffernan
Jeremy Loughman
Angelo Marica
Mike O'Donnell
Conan O'Donnell(under-19)

Loughman could play LH easily enough though.

ArmchairQB

SBTRKT90 wrote: »

if he does Andrew Porter may be a strong contender.. along with Lagan

I think It will be Loughman and Porter, with Heffernan on the bench or other way around but would expect Porter to be involved. Phelan from Newbridge might have a chance but he will be behind Loughman in UCD so won't get much chance to impress would expect Cleary from Clongowes to be involved as well. Camp later next month and would expect all to be there and looked at up close

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

I think It will be Loughman and Porter, with Heffernan on the bench or other way around but would expect Porter to be involved. Phelan from Newbridge might have a chance but he will be behind Loughman in UCD so won't get much chance to impress would expect Cleary from Clongowes to be involved as well. Camp later next month and would expect all to be there and looked at up close

Hopefully Cleary will be involved. Played Irish Youths, Schools and 19s so should be there or there abouts with 20s. Only played 2 of the interpros though
Wonder what level Cleary will be playing in Lansdowne this season? Would be great shame if he only really plays under 20 level

SBTRKT90

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Hopefully Cleary will be involved. Played Irish Youths, Schools and 19s so should be there or there abouts with 20s. Only played 2 of the interpros though
Wonder what level Cleary will be playing in Lansdowne this season? Would be great shame if he only really plays under 20 level

well he isn't going to be playing senior ahead of Tom Daly, Mark Roche, Tom Farrell or Scott Deasy.

Cleary is a nice player but his physical shortcomings may be exposed this season at this level.

Also nearly all under-20's players play only 20's in Leinster bar the odd few exceptions.. it hasn't hurt the Leinster players.

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Hopefully Cleary will be involved. Played Irish Youths, Schools and 19s so should be there or there abouts with 20s. Only played 2 of the interpros though
Wonder what level Cleary will be playing in Lansdowne this season? Would be great shame if he only really plays under 20 level

very few players playing 1a straight out of school, actually not permitted in UCD but if he is good enough he is old enough, I think he was injured for last two interpros. They have a pretty young team and I know a lot of their under 20's played AIL for the final one or two games last year, not sure but assume they are all around again this year

kingofthekong

think nicholas timoney will be involved in some capacity depending on form he could even start imo , havent seen any of conor o'brien anyone reckon he has a chance?

Stainalert

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Hopefully Cleary will be involved. Played Irish Youths, Schools and 19s so should be there or there abouts with 20s. Only played 2 of the interpros though
Wonder what level Cleary will be playing in Lansdowne this season? Would be great shame if he only really plays under 20 level

Why would it be a shame? I can think of several full pro's who took a year at 20's - Worst thing to do is to rush a player into senior level when he is not ready. UCD and Lansdowne have done a pretty good job of bringing players through to pro ranks so I would reckon Cleary is in good hands whatever level he plays this season. Also if he is getting injured in interpros it might suggest he is better off at 20s level whilst his body gets up to speed

ArmchairQB

kingofthekong wrote: »

think nicholas timoney will be involved in some capacity depending on form he could even start imo , havent seen any of conor o'brien anyone reckon he has a chance?

Some strong 8's this year but he has a decent chance of making it

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

very few players playing 1a straight out of school, actually not permitted in UCD but if he is good enough he is old enough, I think he was injured for last two interpros. They have a pretty young team and I know a lot of their under 20's played AIL for the final one or two games last year, not sure but assume they are all around again this year

There has been a considerable number over the years. Not many regularly do but if good enough you're old enough. Is it really not permitted in UCD?

kingofthekong wrote: »

think nicholas timoney will be involved in some capacity depending on form he could even start imo , havent seen any of conor o'brien anyone reckon he has a chance?

O Brien's a very good player but as an u19 may not be involved.

Stainalert wrote: »

Why would it be a shame? I can think of several full pro's who took a year at 20's - Worst thing to do is to rush a player into senior level when he is not ready. UCD and Lansdowne have done a pretty good job of bringing players through to pro ranks so I would reckon Cleary is in good hands whatever level he plays this season. Also if he is getting injured in interpros it might suggest he is better off at 20s level whilst his body gets up to speed

Don't see this as rushing a player into senior level. Just feel its disappointing to see loads of top underage players stockpiled in a few clubs playing 20s when they could be playing adult rugby and testing themselves more.

Can anyone help me with this. Below are winners and runners up of the Frazer McMullan All Ireland under 20 cup for last 20 years or so. I cant find the runners up for some of the years so can anyone help me?

2014 Cork Con Terenure
2013 Lansdowne Trinity
2012 UCD Old Belvedere
2011 UCD Lansdowne
2010 UCC Lansdowne
2009 UL Bohemians Blackrock
2008 UL Bohemians Lansdowne
2007 UCC Blackrock
2006 Shannon Trinity
2005 Trinity
2004 UCC Belfast Harlequins
2003 Trinity
2002 UCC Bruff
2001 Bruff UCC
2000 Garryowen
1999 Lansdowne
1998 Blackrock
1997 Blackrock
1996 UCC

RedemptionZ

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Don't see this as rushing a player into senior level. Just feel its disappointing to see loads of top underage players stockpiled in a few clubs playing 20s when they could be playing adult rugby and testing themselves more.

Injury is an issue though, not many come straight out of school with enough size to play Seniors at a competitive level. There are exceptions obviously, like Peter Robb, who I believe is playing senior for Belvo this year despite being eligible for 20s.

ArmchairQB

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Injury is an issue though, not many come straight out of school with enough size to play Seniors at a competitive level. There are exceptions obviously, like Peter Robb, who I believe is playing senior for Belvo this year despite being eligible for 20s.

I think Robb is in his 3rd year out of school this year and overage for 20's

ArmchairQB

Yeah policy in UCD not to allow 1st years play AIL

Hagz

the cut off for 20's in the club game is different to the cut off for the rep sides isn't it?

Stainalert

Hagz wrote: »

the cut off for 20's in the club game is different to the cut off for the rep sides isn't it?

In Leinster it is Munster date is the same

ArmchairQB

kingofthekong wrote: »

think nicholas timoney will be involved in some capacity depending on form he could even start imo , havent seen any of conor o'brien anyone reckon he has a chance?

Doubt O'Brien will play AIL in Tarf this year as behind one or two new recruits and Clontarf have to beat Greystones on Sunday in 20's playoff if he is to have any chance of impressing and playing in Under 20 premier league if not he will play 2nd division of 20's which wouldn't stand him well for selection.

rugby addict

Is Denis Coulson overage?

The Lost Sheep

rugby addict wrote: »

Is Denis Coulson overage?

Yes he is overage. Born in 94 so overage for under 20s

ArmchairQB

Naas conceded to Blackrock so Rock go into Premier 1 for under 20's
Winners of Clontarf v Greystones and Barnhall v Mary's will also join other 6 teams

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Naas conceded to Blackrock so Rock go into Premier 1 for under 20's
Winners of Clontarf v Greystones and Barnhall v Mary's will also join other 6 teams

Clontarf(beat Greystones 43-7) and Barnhall(beat Marys 13-10)
So Premier 1 will be
Lansdowne, Belvedere, Trinity, UCD, Blackrock, Clontarf, Barnhall, Greystones

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Clontarf(beat Greystones 43-7) and Barnhall(beat Marys 13-10)
So Premier 1 will be
Lansdowne, Belvedere, Trinity, UCD, Blackrock, Clontarf, Barnhall, Greystones

Ternure also prem 1 Greystones will be prem 2
Big win for Tarf