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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #3502
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Yeah, but that's not NPHETs fault. It's our somewhat hysterical media. We'll see what comes out of the investigation.

    If the investigation reports there is no link, I'd happily wager it won't make headlines or be subject to lengthy discussion on RTE. Reassurance doesn't generate revenue or clicks.


  • #3503
    lee_baby_simms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Yeah, but that's not NPHETs fault. It's our somewhat hysterical media. We'll see what comes out of the investigation.

    Well let me put it to you this way.

    Out of a total Covid case count of 115,000,000 worldwide there has been 11 reported cases of covid placentitis worldwide up to the end of 2020.

    So you would imagine that to have 4 cases of this extremely rare complication confined to a small island within a few weeks would be incredibly unlikely wouldn’t it? Surely given this you would need to confirm it before any kind of speculation?

    So my problem here is that Ronan Glynn knows all this. He also knows that public fear is the most valuable currency in NPHETS playbook.

    After all Tony Holohan has expressed several times his concern that the public aren’t scared enough.

    So I think it’s shortsighted to blame the media solely here. Ronan Glynn knows EXACTLY what he’s doing.

    More Info here for anyone who doesn’t get their information from Irish media or NPHET:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0143400421000205


  • #3504
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,239 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    Stheno wrote: »
    Non compliance amongst the Orthodox community

    What exactly is fuelling their opposition to getting vaccinated?


  • #3505
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    What exactly is fuelling their opposition to getting vaccinated?

    Its non-compliance with gathering restrictions mostly - coming together en mass for religious reasons.
    Same thing was seen in New York with the orthodox Jews


  • #3506
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    Stheno wrote: »
    Non compliance amongst the Orthodox community

    Any idea if the orthodox are getting vaccinated? Would be the perfect experiment to see a large % vaccinated, having gatherings, cases skyrocketing, but little-to-no hospitalisations or deaths


  • #3507
    Multipass
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    Cork2021 wrote: »
    Being discussed on morning Ireland this morning, did anyone listen? I’m at work so can’t. Love to see if they’re still running with it even though it’s bollix. Read the replies to the tweet!

    https://twitter.com/morningireland/status/1367738895065038851?s=21

    A quote from this article
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40238300.html

    ‘However, Prof McKenna said it seemed unusual that health authorities were only hearing of the issue at this stage, a year into a pandemic. There had been thousands of births in Ireland in the past year and millions throughout the world. If there was a frequency of such incidents it would have come to light in other countries, he said.‘


    Whoever is behind this story in Ireland knows exactly what they’re doing. It’s really sinister the mind games they’re trying to play. It will have the opposite effect to what they desire, people will stop believing everything.


  • #3508
    lee_baby_simms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    Multipass wrote: »

    Whoever is behind this story in Ireland knows exactly what they’re doing. It’s really sinister the mind games they’re trying to play. It will have the opposite effect to what they desire, people will stop believing everything.

    You are 100% correct.

    I think NPHET need to be careful here, I know myself and many here have long seen through their reckless messaging but if they over egg the cake like this they’ll lose critical mass of the public they’re trying to keep perpetually terrified.


  • #3509
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    lee_baby_simms wrote: »
    Well let me put it to you this way.

    Out of a total Covid case count of 115,000,000 worldwide there has been 11 reported cases of covid placentitis worldwide up to the end of 2020.

    So you would imagine that to have 4 cases of this extremely rare complication confined to a small island within a few weeks would be incredibly unlikely wouldn’t it? Surely given this you would need to confirm it before any kind of speculation?

    So my problem here is that Ronan Glynn knows all this. He also knows that public fear is the most valuable currency in NPHETS playbook.

    After all Tony Holohan has expressed several times his concern that the public aren’t scared enough.

    So I think it’s shortsighted to blame the media solely here. Ronan Glynn knows EXACTLY what he’s doing.

    More Info here for anyone who doesn’t get their information from Irish media or NPHET:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0143400421000205
    I'm fine with this is under investigation and we know that COVID deaths include possibles as well. This is the usual poor media approach to science, publish the salacious headlines first and then get lots of mileage out of "balancing" both sides of the equation.


  • #3510
    lee_baby_simms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    is_that_so wrote: »
    I'm fine with this is under investigation.

    Are you pregnant?


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  • #3511
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    What exactly is fuelling their opposition to getting vaccinated?
    I think vaccination is fine. It's about their religious worship practices, which are incompatible with social distancing, and the community would rather get sick and die than forgo their religious activities.

    Insanely high case numbers therefore happen when you have millions of people mixing in close contact with no health measures.

    For example, this funeral in January:
    image.jpg


  • #3512
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    What exactly is fuelling their opposition to getting vaccinated?

    Religion...


  • #3513
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Lorcainide was an anti arrhythmia drug prescribed in the 80s and 90s. Somewhere in the region of have 100,000 people are estimated to have died from it. All those people you'd think it would have been noticed. It was but it wasn't really published or properly documented. It took the greater part of a decade for the risks to be widely known. Medicine and science is full of stuff like this where what should be obvious very rarely was perceived that way until it becomes obvious with hindsight. There could exists a plethora of documented cases of covid related stillbirths or there might not.

    Just because you think other people should have spotted something doesn't mean they did. Ireland may be the first country to actively probe the issue.

    That said I don't think there's anything here. It just needs to be investigated to know for sure. Assuming there's nothing because others should have seen something can often be a dangerous assumption.


  • #3514
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,642 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    Speaking of scaremongering, necessary or otherwise, whatever happened to Kawasaki disease in children which featured prominently in the early days of the pandemic as being possibly caused by coronavirus.
    I haven’t heard much about it recently ?

    There was an article in one of the newspapers last week about it. Family had covid at Christmas and child became very sick just in recent weeks. Been a good few hospitalisations in Ireland with it. Scary thing but doesn’t appear too common thankfully.
    Different article but similar story.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40229072.html


  • #3515
    OwenM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Lorcainide was an anti arrhythmia drug prescribed in the 80s and 90s. Somewhere in the region of have 100,000 people are estimated to have died from it. All those people you'd think it would have been noticed. It was but it wasn't really published or properly documented. It took the greater part of a decade for the risks to be widely known. Medicine and science is full of stuff like this where what should be obvious very rarely was perceived that way until it becomes obvious with hindsight. There could exists a plethora of documented cases of covid related stillbirths or there might not.

    Just because you think other people should have spotted something doesn't mean they did. Ireland may be the first country to actively probe the issue.

    That said I don't think there's anything here. It just needs to be investigated to know for sure. Assuming there's nothing because others should have seen something can often be a dangerous assumption.

    For something so preliminary and speculative we also have a common name (Covid Placentitis) for it? Needless doom mongering and Glynn could easily have sidestepped that question if he wanted to.


  • #3516
    Natterjack from Kerry
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Natterjack from Kerry


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    To put it into context: 70% of 12914 = 9039 hospitalized
    70% of 1296 = 907 went to ICU
    I'm not 100% sure on the percentages, but it's up there around 70% over the past 12 months.

    Yes, this is the risk, and those are bad numbers. The risks have been kept in check by low infections due to restrictions. If we reach for example, half the population vaccinated, half the population not, then with a relaxation of restrictions, hospitalisations and deaths will soar. It will be far more dangerous in the coming months for the unvaccinated than it is today.


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  • #3517
    SeaMermaid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭SeaMermaid


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    It's very easy for some to react to anything negative as 'unnecessary scaremongering' when they themselves just don't want to hear it. Funnily enough, it's usually from the same cohort that religiously watch RTE, while complaining about what a sham it is, while telling others "if they're scared they should stay home"
    ginoginelli wrote: »
    Bang on.

    Its ironic really. The same cohort talk about 'hiding under the bed' and indulging in 'misery porn' when they are really just reflecting their own disillusionment and fear.

    Sad people.

    Reminds me of school and some students would claim they didn't lift a book to study ever and they encouraged their peers to do the same. Then they come out from the leaving cert with all honours over 500/550 points to 600. Doing very well and apparently without a tap of study done in years. While their peers come out doing poorly and their poor results show their lack of studies.

    Many of these people writing publicly on forums of being proud to breaking lockdown and putting themselves at risk and encouraging spread of disease - are nearly spurring their readers to do the same - and they will emerge from this pandemic as healthy as possible. Just keyboard warriors being bored with lockdown and being safe behind their screens, tapping away at their keys.


  • #3518
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,642 ✭✭✭✭fits


    seamus wrote: »
    I think vaccination is fine. It's about their religious worship practices, which are incompatible with social distancing, and the community would rather get sick and die than forgo their religious activities.

    Insanely high case numbers therefore happen when you have millions of people mixing in close contact with no health measures.

    For example, this funeral in January:
    image.jpg


    There was a mad article in I think New York Times recently. About orthodox community and covid. An eye opener.


  • #3519
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ...so is it only in Ireland that there have been stillbirths, nowhere else in the world ?????
    Really ?? That kinda beggars belief :confused:

    Would you rather women didn't know? Keep them in blissful ignorance, because their doctors know best? Is that it?
    I really thought we had put this kind of paternalism when it comes to women's health behind us.


  • #3520
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,642 ✭✭✭✭fits


    fits wrote: »
    There was a mad article in I think New York Times recently. About orthodox community and covid. An eye opener.

    Here it is. Well worth a read. Long article though

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/17/world/middleeast/israel-orthodox-jews-haredim.html


  • #3521
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    SeaMermaid wrote: »
    Reminds me of school and some students would claim they didn't lift a book to study ever and they encouraged their peers to do the same. Then they come out from the leaving cert with all honours over 500/550 points to 600. Doing very well and apparently without a tap of study done in years. While their peers come out doing poorly and their poor results show their lack of studies.

    Many of these people writing publicly on forums of being proud to breaking lockdown and putting themselves at risk and encouraging spread of disease - are nearly spurring their readers to do the same - and they will emerge from this pandemic as healthy as possible. Just keyboard warriors being bored with lockdown and being safe behind their screens, tapping away at their keys.

    Weren't you trying to link rising cases with schools being open again since Monday of this week? The comment is from yesterday morning.
    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/116473448


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  • #3522
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    OwenM wrote: »
    For something so preliminary and speculative we also have a common name (Covid Placentitis) for it? Needless doom mongering and Glynn could easily have sidestepped that question if he wanted to.

    Setting the age range of death to 0-96 was always going to cause questions


  • #3523
    MarkY91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,068 ✭✭✭MarkY91


    Does anyone know of any protests happening this weekend in Dublin?

    Would be interesting to see how the Garda would react this time. I think they deserved a lot of respect last weekend dealing with the scum of our society.


  • #3524
    muddypuppy
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭muddypuppy


    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0304/1200970-archdiocese-communion-dublin/
    The advice came as a parish in west Dublin stopped handing out communion to 130 parishioners on Sundays, after gardaí advised it should not be doing so.

    [...]

    "They used to come through the main entrance of the church, receive communion and leave through the exit door. On these days we were having 130 people over a period of two hours," Fr Mathew said.

    [...]

    Fr Binoy Mathew, co-Parish Priest of Mountview and Blakestown Parish in Dublin, said that since November parishioners were visiting the Church of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in Huntstown to get communion after watching mass online on Sundays.

    Well it seems that not only young people are breaking covid regulations to party. I'm not surprised but a bit sad to not see any fines handled - if anybody else was doing it (think of a shop doing click and collect now - "customers used to come through the main entrance of the shop, receive their packages and leave through the exit door" ) I'm sure it would have made the headlines.


  • #3525
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »
    Yes, this is the risk, and those are bad numbers. The risks have been kept in check by low infections due to restrictions. If we reach for example, half the population vaccinated, half the population not, then with a relaxation of restrictions, hospitalisations and deaths will soar. It will be far more dangerous in the coming months for the unvaccinated than it is today.

    That's actually a completely incorrect conclusion to come too. You vaccinate the at risk and vulnerable groups, your claim suggests the virus is dangerous to all who contract it which all evidence suggests is completely wrong.


  • #3526
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    muddypuppy wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0304/1200970-archdiocese-communion-dublin/



    Well it seems that not only young people are breaking covid regulations to party. I'm not surprised but a bit sad to not see any fines handled - if anybody else was doing it (think of a shop doing click and collect now - "customers used to come through the main entrance of the shop, receive their packages and leave through the exit door" ) I'm sure it would have made the headlines.

    Maybe it was students on the way to a house party stopping off for a bit of communion. Otherwise it suggests students/ younger people are being unfairly targeted.


  • #3527
    gipi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭gipi


    muddypuppy wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0304/1200970-archdiocese-communion-dublin/



    Well it seems that not only young people are breaking covid regulations to party. I'm not surprised but a bit sad to not see any fines handled - if anybody else was doing it (think of a shop doing click and collect now - "customers used to come through the main entrance of the shop, receive their packages and leave through the exit door" ) I'm sure it would have made the headlines.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dunnes-stores-accused-of-flouting-covid-rules-with-click-and-collect-1.4497583

    Like Dunnes Stores? Still offering click and collect, by all accounts.


  • #3528
    lee_baby_simms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Maybe it was students on the way to a house party stopping off for a bit of communion. Otherwise it suggests students/ younger people are being unfairly targeted.

    I fully expect a tweet from Simon Harris today describing what went on in that church was “a kick in the teeth to everyone who has sacrificed so much”.


  • #3529
    muddypuppy
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭muddypuppy


    gipi wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dunnes-stores-accused-of-flouting-covid-rules-with-click-and-collect-1.4497583

    Like Dunnes Stores? Still offering click and collect, by all accounts.

    Dunnes is operating on a gray line tbf, since they're considered an essential store and are allowed to be open. What I meant is a store that's not considered essential.

    Also I would argue that clothes and homewares are essential (but yes, I know that the government doesn't agree with me).


  • #3530
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    To put it into context: 70% of 12914 = 9039 hospitalized
    70% of 1296 = 907 went to ICU
    I'm not 100% sure on the percentages, but it's up there around 70% over the past 12 months.

    These are the stats that matter:
    (Profile of COVID-19 Deaths and Cases up to and including Friday February 19 2021 - from CSO)

    Age | Deaths | Median Age | Cases | Median Age
    0-14 | 0 | 0 | 18,753 | 8
    15-24 | .. | .. | 37,709 | 20
    25-44 | 35 | 36 | 72,738 | 34
    45-64 | 252 | 58 | 57,025 | 53
    65-79 | 1,138 | 74 | 16,788 | 72
    80+ | 2,454 | 87 | 11,809 | 86

    As you can see the most at risk are over 65s, below that its a tiny portion of the population at risk.


  • #3531
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,153 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    gipi wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dunnes-stores-accused-of-flouting-covid-rules-with-click-and-collect-1.4497583

    Like Dunnes Stores? Still offering click and collect, by all accounts.

    I just tried and its not available online , delivery only


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  • #3532
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Would you rather women didn't know? Keep them in blissful ignorance, because their doctors know best? Is that it?
    I really thought we had put this kind of paternalism when it comes to women's health behind us.

    Yep, the same people probably constantly demanding open disclosure and accusing Holohan of trying to "cover up" CervicalCheck issues by having a private inquiry before making everything public.

    You either want a paternalistic medical culture that tries to treat people with blissful ignorance, or you want one that is open and honest about things. There's no in between. You can't have both.


  • #3533
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    timmyntc wrote: »
    These are the stats that matter:
    (Profile of COVID-19 Deaths and Cases up to and including Friday February 19 2021 - from CSO)

    Age | Deaths | Median Age | Cases | Median Age
    0-14 | 0 | 0 | 18,753 | 8
    15-24 | .. | .. | 37,709 | 20
    25-44 | 35 | 36 | 72,738 | 34
    45-64 | 252 | 58 | 57,025 | 53
    65-79 | 1,138 | 74 | 16,788 | 72
    80+ | 2,454 | 87 | 11,809 | 86

    As you can see the most at risk are over 65s, below that its a tiny portion of the population at risk.
    I would consider age breakdown of hospitalisation and icu admission to be just as important (and not as heavily skewed to fit your ambition).


  • #3534
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Amirani wrote: »
    Yep, the same people probably constantly demanding open disclosure and accusing Holohan of trying to "cover up" CervicalCheck issues by having a private inquiry before making everything public.

    You either want a paternalistic medical culture that tries to treat people with blissful ignorance, or you want one that is open and honest about things. There's no in between. You can't have both.

    How about when asked, Glynn responds "There is no evidence both nationally or internationally of covid-19 causing stillbirths. The coroner is investigating these 4 cases, however we believe that covid19 was not a factor."

    And also don't list 4 stillbirths in the death statistics until you actually know that covid19 was a factor - because right now the evidence is overwhelmingly against that.


  • #3535
    completedit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    Hearing that in Bulgaria everything but nightclubs are now open. Businesses supposed to be at 50% capacity but Sofia has pretty much returned to normal. Honestly, we're such a passive country(for better or worse)


  • #3536
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    I would consider age breakdown of hospitalisation and icu admission to be just as important (and not as heavily skewed to fit your ambition).

    Did you just accuse the CSO's death statistics to be skewed to fit my personal ambition? :confused:


  • #3537
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    timmyntc wrote: »
    How about when asked, Glynn responds "There is no evidence both nationally or internationally of covid-19 causing stillbirths. The coroner is investigating these 4 cases, however we believe that covid19 was not a factor."

    Because that's not what the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists are saying: https://www.rcpi.ie/news/releases/statement-from-the-institute-of-obstetricians-and-gynaecologists-4/

    If he said what you said then he'd be lying to make people feel better. They haven't formed a "belief" yet, it's being investigated.


  • #3538
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    timmyntc wrote: »
    These are the stats that matter:
    (Profile of COVID-19 Deaths and Cases up to and including Friday February 19 2021 - from CSO)

    Age | Deaths | Median Age | Cases | Median Age
    0-14 | 0 | 0 | 18,753 | 8
    15-24 | .. | .. | 37,709 | 20
    25-44 | 35 | 36 | 72,738 | 34
    45-64 | 252 | 58 | 57,025 | 53
    65-79 | 1,138 | 74 | 16,788 | 72
    80+ | 2,454 | 87 | 11,809 | 86

    As you can see the most at risk are over 65s, below that its a tiny portion of the population at risk.

    The OP was in the mindset that because the flu hospitalised less people than covid, we should vaccinate all over 70's and open up. I merely was saying just vaccinating the over 70's and opening up would still see hospitals under pressure (assuming cases increase).

    If you vaccinate all over 70's, all over 18's in the high risk category and all HCW's, then the numbers dying and being hospitalised would be or should be entirely manageable.


  • #3539
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Did you just accuse the CSO's death statistics to be skewed to fit my personal ambition? :confused:

    No.
    He or she quite clearly did not do this.


  • #3540
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    The OP was in the mindset that because the flu hospitalised less people than covid, we should vaccinate all over 70's and open up. I merely was saying just vaccinating the over 70's and opening up would still see hospitals under pressure (assuming cases increase).

    If you vaccinate all over 70's, all over 18's in the high risk category and all HCW's, then the numbers dying and being hospitalised would be or should be entirely manageable.

    Of the under 65s who died from covid, I think something mad like 90% had an underlying condition. I will try find the CSO data for that.
    Turtwig wrote: »
    No.
    He or she quite clearly did not do this.
    That you drew this interpretation is actually quite fascinating.
    I would consider age breakdown of hospitalisation and icu admission to be just as important (and not as heavily skewed to fit your ambition).

    The data is the data. Its the whole death range for all ages. How can it be skewed?


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  • #3541
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Amirani wrote: »
    Because that's not what the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists are saying: https://www.rcpi.ie/news/releases/statement-from-the-institute-of-obstetricians-and-gynaecologists-4/

    If he said what you said then he'd be lying to make people feel better. They haven't formed a "belief" yet, it's being investigated.

    Fair enough, technically they shouldnt state a belief. But the rest of my point stands - statistically speaking its incredibly unlikely, so to list them in the deaths already and then defer to the outcome of the coroners report with no reference to the fact that this hasnt been spotted anywhere across the world yet in any real numbers - its dishonest at best.


  • #3542
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Of the under 65s who died from covid, I think something mad like 90% had an underlying condition. I will try find the CSO data for that.





    The data is the data. Its the whole death range for all ages. How can it be skewed?

    I don't doubt that, but my point was not related to deaths, it was related to hospital and ICU figures and protecting the 70+ cohort (via vaccinations) will drastically reduce deaths, however it won't reduce the number of people in hospital and ICU by the same factor.


  • #3543
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    This is up to end of January:
    CSO wrote:
    Underlying Conditions

    Due to the recent surge in cases there are a large volume of deaths and cases where underlying cases are unknown, which means the numbers of cases with underlying conditions in recent weeks are likely to be underestimated.

    Since the start of the pandemic, there have been 2,504 deaths of people with underlying conditions from 28,326 confirmed cases with underlying conditions. The median age of those dying with underlying conditions is 83.

    There were 2,320 deaths of people with underlying conditions in the over 65 age group. Of the 222 deaths in the 25-64 age group, 183 had underlying conditions.

    In terms of underlying conditions, chronic heart disease was present in 42% of deaths.

    82% actually had underlying condition as it turns out. Still quite high.
    Once over 65s, and all underlying conditions are vaccinated, hard to see any reason not to reopen to a level 3 at the very least.


  • #3544
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    I don't doubt that, but my point was not related to deaths, it was related to hospital and ICU figures and protecting the 70+ cohort (via vaccinations) will drastically reduce deaths, however it won't reduce the number of people in hospital and ICU by the same factor.

    I take your point - however over 65s make up a big share of hospital & ICU, so once they are vaccinated we have a much larger capacity for the other cohort.

    And when looking at the role underlying conditions played in deaths under 65, I dont doubt they played a big role in who got hospitalised also.


  • #3545
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Fair enough, technically they shouldnt state a belief. But the rest of my point stands - statistically speaking its incredibly unlikely, so to list them in the deaths already and then defer to the outcome of the coroners report with no reference to the fact that this hasnt been spotted anywhere across the world yet in any real numbers - its dishonest at best.

    A decision wouldn't have been made to list them in the deaths.

    The process all along in Ireland has been to classify Possible, Probable and Confirmed deaths where Covid is present as Covid deaths, and then de-notify as necessary once more information is available. This is automatic.

    So purely because Covid is involved, it means that these will automatically be counted as possible Covid deaths until a coroner determines otherwise. This isn't new and has been the process since last April or so.


  • #3546
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Amirani wrote: »
    A decision wouldn't have been made to list them in the deaths.

    The process all along in Ireland has been to classify Possible, Probable and Confirmed deaths where Covid is present as Covid deaths, and then de-notify as necessary once more information is available. This is automatic.

    So purely because Covid is involved, it means that these will automatically be counted as possible Covid deaths until a coroner determines otherwise. This isn't new and has been the process since last April or so.

    Didn't realise that, makes sense.


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  • #3547
    johndanielmoore
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭johndanielmoore


    lee_baby_simms wrote: »
    I fully expect a tweet from Simon Harris today describing what went on in that church was “a kick in the teeth to everyone who has sacrificed so much”.

    Please don't hold your breath.


  • #3548
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Did you just accuse the CSO's death statistics to be skewed to fit my personal ambition? :confused:

    A poster said hospitals and icu admissions are more prevalent younger people than deaths. The health service will be stressed if we open.

    You said all that matters are deaths heres the stats.

    I said that the data about deaths is very one sided and I was meaning that its only of value if you want to ignore truth and open up.

    I can't find total data about the age of hospital admissions but during a given period 43% of admissions were under 65.

    I believe its a higher % for icu admissions but that's off the top of my head.

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/hse-chief-says-covid-19-concern-in-hospitals-at-highest-level-ever-1068365.html

    Deaths are of course important but we are very capable of overwhelming the hospital system with cases in under 65s. Thats key to me.

    Once full medical care resumes the one thing I want more than anything is that routine and urgent elective procedures aren't stopped again.


  • #3549
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    timmyntc wrote: »
    I take your point - however over 65s make up a big share of hospital & ICU, so once they are vaccinated we have a much larger capacity for the other cohort.

    And when looking at the role underlying conditions played in deaths under 65, I dont doubt they played a big role in who got hospitalised also.

    Just because you have ~30% less being hospitalized doesn't mean we can continue on and use that 30% extra capacity to cater for more Covid cases in hospital.

    OP wanted 70+ vaccinated and open up. I made a comment about under 70's accounting for about 70% of all hospital admissions and a higher % for ICU admissions. I never referenced deaths. I was talking about hospital admissions.


  • #3550
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,895 ✭✭✭Polar101


    lee_baby_simms wrote: »
    I fully expect a tweet from Simon Harris today describing what went on in that church was “a kick in the teeth to everyone who has sacrificed so much”.

    In fairness, he is the minister for higher education, so I'd expect him to comment on matters relating to university students, rather than what's happening in a church.


  • #3551
    amandstu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭amandstu


    amandstu wrote: »
    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/04/health/obesity-covid-death-rate-intl/index.html

    Apparently there has been a study that seems to show a 10 fold increase in mortality rates due to covid-19 between countries with a high rate of overweight in comparison to countries with a lower rate.

    Quite an effect.

    Must surely apply to quite a degree within the individual countries too,I'd have thought.

    Do those numbers feel right? Any comments?


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