The Matrix Resurrections (with Keanu Reeves, Carrie-Anne Moss and Lana Wachowski)

seamus · 25-08-2021 2:35pm

I've just watched Reloaded again and started on Revolutions.

Reloaded is a perfectly good movie, it just has a few stinkers in it. Cut out the big Zion dance and the sex scene (they implied that Neo and Trinity weren't shagging on board ship. Why the fvck not?), edit the insanely hammy speeches from Fishburne and do something to fix the abomination that is Toy-Story-Neo fighting a load of Smiths, and it'd be a great sequel.

On reflection there's nothing overly complicated or pretentious in it, even though that seemed to be everyone's opinion at the time.

Agent Coulson · 25-08-2021 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117801487#Comment_117801487

I doubt the release will be pushed back as it is one of joint HBOMax/cinema releases and it released for Christmas week when people will be at home to give HBOMax a nice boost in subscriptions.

DarkJager21 · 25-08-2021 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117801981#Comment_117801981

Main characters died? I'm pretty certain the main characters were all alive and well by the end of 3, apart from Neo-Jesus but that wasn't even confirmed..

pixelburp · 25-08-2021 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117802489#Comment_117802489

Nope, one was definitively killed.

Trinity was skewered when her and Neo's ship crashed into the Machine City.

Though given the Matrix being as it is, nobody's really dead in this world - there's an easy handwave possible to have an AI, digital consciousness version appear.

Agent Coulson · 25-08-2021 5:50pm

...

seamus · 26-08-2021 9:54am

@pixelburp wrote:

Though given the Matrix being as it is, nobody's really dead in this world - there's an easy handwave possible to have an AI, digital consciousness version appear.

Well this is the thing, and it's not even really a hand-wavy lazy plot device. It's covered pretty well in the movies that the machines are masters of AI and the human brain. The ability of agents to move in and out of human brains, and the fact that the "One" is in effect a human reprogrammed by the machines, says that from the machines' point of view there is basically no difference to them between human "programs" and machine programs.

That is, the machines could easily choose to "save" a human consciousness in the Matrix as a program without a body. They don't though, because "every program must have a purpose, programs without a purpose are deleted". A human intelligence with no body, has no purpose.

So the machines having "uploaded" Neo and Trinity to the Matrix as part of the peace agreement isn't a huge jump. Or even having fixed them and plugged them back into the Matrix.

johnny_ultimate · 26-08-2021 10:12am

Oh for sure there are very few series that have such room for insane excuses about why characters aren't actually dead or whatever. I think the problem with these kind of sequels though is that they undermine the sacrifices characters made - Neo and Trinity died in quite dramatic and 'meaningful' circumstances, so when you undo that for a sequel it makes those moments ring hollow when you revisit them. It's like watching The Avengers and thinking 'well, why should I care about Coulson dying when he was just resurrected for a TV series a year later?'

But - let me stress - I'm actually looking forward to seeing this. I wouldn't put it past Lana to have some fascinatingly eccentric reason why these characters are being resurrected. I'm (in theory anyway) in for whatever convoluted nonsense this sequel has to offer :)

seamus · 26-08-2021 10:27am

There's apparently a gigantic amount of canon narrative from the Matrix Online, which I suspect the vast majority of people will be completely unaware of. I wonder like the Animatrix are they planning on releasing something beforehand to catch everyone up, or will they just do a "quick history of the last 20 years" in the opening scenes of the movie?

DarkJager21 · 26-08-2021 10:36am

Keanu carrying his Johnny Silverhand/John Wick look over to the matrix :D From how the trailer was described it sounds almost like a soft reboot of the series.

pixelburp · 26-08-2021 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804974#Comment_117804974

Well, as nonsense reasons for any character in Sci-Fi to return from the dead, digital consciousnesses make more "sense" than most scripts try for. In fact as immortality goes, it's generally used as the more believable, being as it is an expansion on technology we have. We see it in stories like Altered Carbon, where immortality is done via digitised "true" backups of ones soul.

Perhaps given what you say, the idea will be we meet Trinity / Neo who have a function as the "conscience" of the newly caring Matrix, or the human element keeping things in balance?

fitz · 26-08-2021 10:49am

Or, was the "real world" of the original movies another layer of simulation? Would explain Neo's real world abilities/connection with the machines. I'm not sure I like the idea, but there are plenty of ways they can go about continuing the story. As mentioned above though, undoing the sacrifices made could be problematic...I'm really looking forward to seeing where they go with it tbh.

B.A._Baracus · 26-08-2021 2:14pm

Interesting tag line "reload reality"

If the "real world" was also another simulation... it would make sense. I mean how did neo take down the sentenal using his mind if not for the fact he's still plugged in to something. IIRC, they never gave an explanation for that.

And what Smith says in the first. About the turn of the century being used as it was the peak of mankind, man is a virus... but the real truth is, man is always at war, sooner accept that world as always fighting something, so why not let them fight machines. Not the real machines tho. Either zion falls, peace is made or peace is destroyed. We already now there are so many "ones" - one big loop. One big simulation within a simulation. As morphesus says born into bondage, a prison you will never see, taste or touch. But not the matrix as we know it.

It would be ballsy I tell you that lol. Not all fans would like it.

speedboatchase · 26-08-2021 5:35pm

That poster is fan-made, as is the tagline.

B.A._Baracus · 27-08-2021 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807119#Comment_117807119

It is? Boo. Boo I say!

breezy1985 · 27-08-2021 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/111033108#Comment_111033108

Sense8 had the exact same problem as The Matrix in that it got very boring once the characters (and audience) had learned how the world worked. The excitement ended once they stopped learning and became masters of that worlds rules

pixelburp · 27-08-2021 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117810569#Comment_117810569

I should amend my prior comment that this sequel doesn't involve the Wachowskis, plural; and as it happens Lilly recently chatted about her decision not to work on Matrix 4, and it's as one might speculate; a reluctance to return to prior pastures, albeit for more personal and emotional reasons, than artistic ones of going back to a successful well.

There was something about the idea of going backwards and being a part of something that I had done before that was expressly unappealing [...] Like, I didn’t want to have gone through my transition and gone through this massive upheaval in my life, the sense of loss from my mom and dad, to want to go back to something that I had done before and sort of walk over old paths that I had walked in, felt emotionally unfulfilling and really the opposite. Like I was going to go back and live in these old shoes in a way. And I didn’t want to do that

https://www.avclub.com/lilly-wachowski-explains-why-shes-not-involved-with-the-1847562766

Homelander · 27-08-2021 2:39pm

Was just watching the original movie on Netflix this morning, haven't seen it since it was released, same with both sequels. Remember thinking the first was good and the sequels less so, but the original is so much more impressive now watching it through more adult lenses.

Not so much that it's aged as a great movie (and it has aged pretty well), but just being so much more appreciative of how impacting it was on the sci-fi landscape back in 1999, as well as the enormous impact on pop culture.

Parachutes · 27-08-2021 2:44pm

I really hope they don’t ruin it with woke crap.

pixelburp · 27-08-2021 4:55pm

Ah, the 'aul union-mandated woke ~~whinge~~ boxtick. You might be a bit late to the news on that front; it was always "woke", they just hid it behind all the trailblazing action 😉

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435

Oafley Jones · 27-08-2021 5:31pm

Rewatched the trilogy during the first lockdown. Still love the first. The others on the other hand fared pretty badly.

I didn’t hate them on release. I was always amused at the amount of attention people gave to the auld dance hall in Zion. But if there’s one there’s one thing that struck me now, was how deeply “uncool” the sequels were. There’s a level of posturing you wouldn’t get at teenage disco. The ridiculously over wrought costume design inside the matrix. It went for effortlessly cool (but still studied) in the first to just effort. Looking like the worst of Paris fashion week. Surely IRL one would have dressed as a pony for the lols.

Sad Professor · 27-08-2021 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117811814#Comment_117811814

Gosh and I thought it was this deep metaphor about Cartesian Dualism all this time. The film's metaphor was deliberately broad and generic of course so that people could read anything they wanted into it. Even if that was something mostly forced on them by the studio, this still reads like retrospective pushback due to the film's cultural legacy being appropriated by the right.

johnny_ultimate · 27-08-2021 6:32pm

I’m not convinced by the trans metaphor reading (although then again I’m not the creator of the Matrix), but I am wholly convinced by Lilly’s simple but elegant response to the morons who’ve tried to co-opt the series mythology:

https://twitter.com/lilly_wachowski/status/1262104754496339968?s=21

pixelburp · 27-08-2021 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812227#Comment_117812227

Oh for sure there are plenty of readings - especially in the sequels - and as you mention it's few enough movies that have both an inclusive trans reading and a gun-nut Timothy McVeigh one. I do buy a little into the idea it was always written as a trans story though. Maybe it wasn't that way consciously, intentionally; but given the Wachowki's both later transitioned, and the character of Switch was meant to be trans, coupled with the narrative interpretation perhaps it was the subconscious speaking through the writing, highlighted afterwards by fans spotting the threads.

Agent Coulson · 07-09-2021 3:35pm

Which phone maker is going unveil there newest phone in this.

They will be hard pressed to come up with an original looking phone these days.

pixelburp · 07-09-2021 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858916#Comment_117858916

I'd be amazed if it was Nokia. Whatever about the technological leaps, it's nuts how a brand can have gone from top of the industry to relative obscurity or irrelevancy.

I'm more amazed this still has a November release date without so much as a trailer or teaser. Most I've seen has been some set photos. This is getting a cinema release, right? It's not just straight to HBO Max?

Agent Coulson · 07-09-2021 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858982#Comment_117858982

Christmas week duel cinema & HBO Max release in the States so I'd expect the same here.

pixelburp · 07-09-2021 3:54pm

Oh december isn't so mad then. Still a little short notice feeling, given the size of the property.

Agent Coulson · 07-09-2021 3:56pm

I wouldn't be surprised if the trailer is a tied in marketing release you need to buy something to get to see it.

Something like the latest iPhone has the trailer attached something like that.

Fysh · 07-09-2021 4:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858995#Comment_117858995

The use of "duel" in there is a neat touch, given the ongoing arguments about home-release cannibalising theatrical performance 😁

07-09-2021 4:52pm

I bought the Matrix on VHS. Then the machine chewed it up, so I bought it on VHS again. It was the first DVD I ever bought. I was in an airport flying somewhere, and they had it on UMD, so I bought it on UMD, and watched it on the flight to where ever I was going on my PSP. Considering thats how many times I've bought it, you can imagine how many times I've watched it. As for, the other two, ive seen them maybe 3 or 4 times each.

I'll go to see this in the cinema, but my expectations are very low.

Also, how will it work with Trinity? Considering she you know, starts voting Democrat

Edit: Looks like spoiler tags dont work on the new site. Sad Panda :(

07-09-2021 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858916#Comment_117858916

Its already out but, Samsung Flip Z? With a 1k price tag, it might be worth including it in the movie to drive buyers.

johnny_ultimate · 07-09-2021 5:33pm

Trailer coming in two days, some early footage here: https://thechoiceisyours.whatisthematrix.com/

EoinMcLovin · 07-09-2021 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859452#Comment_117859452

Just noticed that both of those videos give the exact time you are watching the video meaning if watching it at 5:50 pm it shows that time in the video

07-09-2021 5:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859502#Comment_117859502

I spotted that. Thats pretty cool, I have to say.

johnny_ultimate · 07-09-2021 5:53pm

There’s real ‘this is how we marketed films in the 90s and early 00s’ energy off the website.

This isn’t a complaint.

Bacchus · 07-09-2021 9:40pm

EDIT: Sorry, the teaser on YouTube is just the website thing

B.A._Baracus · 08-09-2021 1:14pm

The viral website saying the time in the video is impressive. From a technological standpoint.

It appears to be baked in to the video. So how did they do it? I am trying to wrap my mind around it.

Like it's easy to serve up a customised website at any time using a script. Say you go to it between 1.00pm and 1.59pm you can write something that can turn the background blue say. That's nothing new. Video is rendered tho.

The hard-way is just to get the actor to say so many variations of the time, thus creating so many videos. But thats too much work. 60 minutes for every hour times 24 hours (as he says pm and am) would be 1,440 variations lol. Even if him saying am and pm is a clever edit it would still be 720 variations.

Must be some editing at play to achieve a video with every possible time rather than getting the actors to do each variation. But the cut is good if it is.

Any thoughts?

Drumpot · 08-09-2021 1:21pm

Oh, I like that sneak peak, I’m in. Was in when I heard there was gonna be another matrix but that looked really cool. I didn’t realise Yahya Abdul was in movie, I like him, is he the new morphious?

Fysh · 08-09-2021 1:30pm

You're missing how much can be done through clever design and using programming.

I would guess it's the streaming equivalent of seamless branching, i.e. when the video is requested the site runs a calculation to check what local time will be when the voice states the time and generates a playlist for the stream in three parts- the opening, the customised time clip (which might be several audio clips and one video clip), and then the rest. Broadly speaking the same idea as using a binary copy to combine multiple video clips into one, assuming the encoding and container formats support it.

For the time clip, all you need is the actor saying each number for the hour and day, along with "am" and "pm" - with the chosen cadence, splicing those snippets into all the required options is straightforward. We don't see them speaking, so it's that easy - the rest is just re-running rendering jobs with each possible time.

Slydice · 08-09-2021 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863067#Comment_117863067

If I was making it...

For the audio, I'd record 1 to 12 and then the tens from 20 to 60. Then AM and PM.

So that's about 19 things to say.

Then [Audio Before Time] [Hour] [First part of minutes 10,20 etc] [Optional last part of minutes] [Audio after Time]

For the video, it's probably way less complex

[Video Before Time] [Time] [Video after Time]

Play video and audio.. probably can be done playing them separately or combined depending on the preference of technology being used.

Slydice · 08-09-2021 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863133#Comment_117863133

Oh, forgot the teens. So could add in 11 - 19 to the voice lines

EoinMcLovin · 08-09-2021 2:53pm

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28446761

Top comment explains how they did it

McDermotX · 09-09-2021 2:04pm

Trailer

https://youtu.be/9ix7TUGVYIo

The White Wolf · 09-09-2021 2:10pm

Looks promising albeit the blue and red glasses characters are wearing is a bit on the nose. :P

super_furry · 09-09-2021 2:12pm

That looks pretty fcuking great.

Agent Coulson · 09-09-2021 2:15pm

Clearly about the struggles after transitioning.

pixelburp · 09-09-2021 2:18pm

Not sure what to make of that; the Matrix was such a deeply late-90s vehicle it's super weird looking at something a little more present in modernity. A lot fewer trenchcoats and PVC too.

Also, am I the only one a little distracted by Reeves sporting his John Wick beard + hair? OMG, that universe was another version of the Matrix. Shared universe?

The White Wolf · 09-09-2021 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868106#Comment_117868106

After seeing Reeves beardless in Bill and Ted he's much better off with the beard. That's not insulting him but contrary to all the jokes he is starting to look his age.

pixelburp · 09-09-2021 2:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868136#Comment_117868136

That's true, it's just he's looking so like Wick it distracted a tad during the trailer. Just a minor thing mind.

So I wonder what the damn plot in this is that The Matrix is still going, the agents still intervening. Wasn't there supposed to be some kind of harmony established with humanity at the end of number 3?

brevity · 09-09-2021 2:39pm

Stopped the trailer half way through :) Looking forward to it.

Not sure where they are going with it and I'm not sure I want to know. That was the fun of the first one.

The Matrix Resurrections (with Keanu Reeves, Carrie-Anne Moss and Lana Wachowski)

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