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Charlie Sheen

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    #392
    beyondbelief67
    Registered Users Posts: 550 ✭✭✭beyondbelief67


    I do wonder how those posters who have such a terribly sad view of hiv and aids and how it's passed on manage to receive medical treatment?
    Or how they manage to stay in hospital?
    After all if you think it can be passed on by merely shaking hands then surely you would be petrified in such environments?
    This thread has really saddened me I thought ideas and thoughts had changed, I remember going for lunch with a young teenage girl one day and some of her classmate's told the waitress that she shouldnt be allowed in there, we were asked to leave, I saw them putting everything we had used straight in the bin including the table cloth.
    Sadly she ddint want to go out much after that, because of small minded clueless people. Empathy, compassion and caring of others costs nothing and can mean everything.


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    #393
    Canterelle
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Canterelle


    beyondbelief67 wrote: »
    I do wonder how those posters who have such a terribly sad view of hiv and aids and how it's passed on manage to receive medical treatment?
    Or how they manage to stay in hospital?
    After all if you think it can be passed on by merely shaking hands then surely you would be petrified in such environments?
    This thread has really saddened me I thought ideas and thoughts had changed, I remember going for lunch with a young teenage girl one day and some of her classmate's told the waitress that she shouldnt be allowed in there, we were asked to leave, I saw them putting everything we had used straight in the bin including the table cloth.
    Sadly she ddint want to go out much after that, because of small minded clueless people. Empathy, compassion and caring of others costs nothing and can mean everything.

    Totally agree, and am dismayed there are people who wouldn't shake hands with a HIV+ person. And then go on to label anyone who questions this or disagrees with them as PC or Sjws. I am sorry but your sense of "well being" and peace of (small) mind does not far outweigh that of others, especially when it is based on total ignorance and knee jerk responsiveness.


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    #394
    ThinkProgress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ThinkProgress


    Candie wrote: »
    Your information is out of date and your understanding is very limited. If you are interested in being more informed, there are vast resources available on the net to help you gain a more educated perspective on the risks of being around people with HIV, and casual contact.

    You are more likely to be run over by a pink bus, on a Thursday, while wearing a unicorn costume, than you are to become infected with HIV from shaking someones hand.

    I am fully aware of the risks and how it's contracted. (as far as we currently understand) Thank You.

    But this disease is not yet fully understood, so I choose to take a very cautious approach with it.
    Samaris wrote: »
    Good grief...having read that diatribe in response, all I can say is that that was alarmingly ill-informed and amazingly callous.

    You can get it from sharing needles, yes, I assume that's one of the "bad choices" you speak of. You can also get it from sleeping with a HIV+ person, particularly if you have anal sex, which is a lot more common in the gay male community than in other groups. I assume that's another of your "lifestyle" issues. You can also get it from unprotected or insufficiently protected sex (i.e. using a non-latex condom, which is a problem for the significant amount of people who are allergic to the stuff.)

    So, now that we've covered the "bad lifestyle" choices. You can also get it from blood transfusions - you should go look at the thread about donating blood and the six idiots that say they donate without being eligible to. You can inherit it from parents, which is a major problem in certain African countries where the disease has been endemic.

    Please try not to assume too much about me... it shows your ignorance.

    Those are the contraction methods were are currently aware of. What about the ones we're not currently aware of...? Did you even think of this?

    Or do you also believe that we fully understand this disease too? :rolleyes:

    People contract the disease all the time without knowing how/when/where... yet many of you on here are so certain that we fully understand it... GOOD FOR YOU GUYS... but I call all of THAT ignorance!

    Aid workers in 3rd world countries (who are very well informed btw), frequently contract the disease. And again, many of these people don't know how they got it... they just make assumptions based on what we currently know.
    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    You are just showing your ignorance on the issue.

    Really? And what about all the ignorance in here of people naively thinking we know EVERYTHING about the disease?

    WE DON'T...

    I'm sure there will be many future discoveries/revelations. (perhaps even a cure if we're all lucky one day)


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    #395
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    ThinkProgress wrote: »

    Aid workers in 3rd world countries (who are very well informed btw), frequently contract the disease. And again, many of these people don't know how they got it... they just make assumptions based on what we currently know.

    link???


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    #396
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    I am fully aware of the risks and how it's contracted. (as far as we currently understand) Thank You.

    But this disease is not yet fully understood, so I choose to take a very cautious approach with it.



    Please try not to assume too much about me... it shows your ignorance.

    Those are the contraction methods were are currently aware of. What about the ones we're not currently aware of...? Did you even think of this?

    Or do you also believe that we fully understand this disease too? :rolleyes:

    People contract the disease all the time without knowing how/when/where... yet many of you on here are so certain that we fully understand it... GOOD FOR YOU GUYS... but I call all of THAT ignorance!

    Aid workers in 3rd world countries (who are very well informed btw), frequently contract the disease. And again, many of these people don't know how they got it... they just make assumptions based on what we currently know.



    Really? Are you sure your arent getting it mixed up with ebola?


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    #397
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Says the chap making some truly ridiculous assumptions about how s/he might get it.

    We do actually have a pretty good idea of how it's transmitted. It's the cure that's the difficult part.

    *scratches head* As a matter of interest, do you generally figure that when you personally don't understand something it's because it's Not Understood?


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    #398
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    I am fully aware of the risks and how it's contracted. (as far as we currently understand) Thank You.

    No, you don't.

    You can choose to educate yourself or you can choose to remain ignorant. I think it's fairly obvious which path you'll take, but please don't pretend it's an informed choice.


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    #399
    asteroids over berlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭asteroids over berlin


    I like Charlie, his a bit out there. Hope he lives a long and otherwise healthy life :)


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    #400
    Canterelle
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Canterelle


    As has been said before, there is a lot of readily available information about hiv and AIDS, and if hiv is detected in time people can live normal lives with a pretty near normal life expectancy. We do know how HIV is transmitted, and we have a good knowledge of how to prevent it developing into AIDS if the right treatment is given. We also know that it cannot be transmitted by shaking hands or hugging. Please be aware of this, it's easy to take in and can limit a lot of unnecessary hurt. I think that's all anyone is try to say to the posters who say they wouldn't shake hands with a person with HIV , it's an unfair awful disease and it's pretty tough enough for those people unfortunate enough to have contracted it without being shunned or ostracised by others, needlessly.


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    #401
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Samaris wrote: »
    You can also get it from unprotected or insufficiently protected sex (i.e. using a non-latex condom, which is a problem for the significant amount of people who are allergic to the stuff.)

    Would people stop saying this, anybody that uses insufficient protection isn't doing it because they have a latex allergy they are doing it because they don't want to use a certain type of protection.
    You can buy Mates Skyn's in Tesco and Boots FFS they aren't exactly a hidden away product.
    (And to shill them, they are way better than Durex)


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    #402
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Would people stop saying this, anybody that uses insufficient protection isn't doing it because they have a latex allergy they are doing it because they don't want to use a certain type of protection.
    You can buy Mates Skyn's in Tesco and Boots FFS they aren't exactly a hidden away product.
    (And to shill them, they are way better than Durex)

    Soooo...no-one has latex allergies then? The only reason not to use them is to not use them?

    That makes sense.


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    #403
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    I am amazed by the lack of knowledge about HIV and AIDS. It sounds like 1985 in here.
    Fixed your post.
    osarusan wrote: »
    Even in After Hours, where the term SJW has such lazy and blindly all-emcompassing use as to never have meant anything, this is an extreme.
    I saw someone refer to someone else as a SJW yesterday, despite the fact the person on the receiving end of the label is utterly obsessed with sneering at anyone they (often incorrectly) deem a SJW. It literally just gets thrown out at anything at all.

    It's really stupid to deem any advocating non marginalisation of people who don't deserve it, to be merely "political correctness", as if it's that shallow, when real human beings are who are being talked about here.


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    #404
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Charlie has said he had unprotected sex with two women who were counselled by two doctors before hand and told of the risks of contracting HIV. I don't see why either party would do this. I don't see how he'd take such a risk and it's equally irresponsible for the woman to put herself in such a situation. The mind boggles.


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    #405
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    anna080 wrote: »
    Charlie has said he had unprotected sex with two women who were counselled by two doctors before hand and told of the risks of contracting HIV. I don't see why either party would do this. I don't see how he'd take such a risk and it's equally irresponsible for the woman to put herself in such a situation. The mind boggles.

    If his viral load was undetectable then the risk is virtually non existent. The blood tests are extremely sensitive and if no copies of the virus are detected then it can't be passed on.

    The Swiss Statement of 2008 states the risk of a person with undetectable viral load - and this would be most people in the West on simple enough treatment regimens -
    "An HIV-infected person on antiretroviral therapy with completely suppressed viraemia (“effective ART”) is not sexually infectious, i.e. cannot transmit HIV through sexual contact.”

    So it sounds like these women informed themselves and made an informed decision that the risk was negligible.

    It is because of the effectiveness of the treatment that babies can now be safely born to HIV+ mothers with only the very remotest theoretical risk of infection. To put that another way, it's unheard of in recent years for an infected baby to be born when the HIV+ mother is undergoing treatment and adheres to the regimen.

    Theoretically, if everyone presently infected with HIV was treated appropriately, the disease would die out as that generation does.

    Unfortunately the greatest tragedy of our time is that there is approaching 38 million people around the world living with HIV and AIDS, many of whom have no access to treatment.


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    #406
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Candie wrote: »
    If his viral load was undetectable then the risk is virtually non existent. The blood tests are extremely sensitive and if no copies of the virus are detected then it can't be passed on.

    The Swiss Statement of 2008 states the risk of a person with undetectable viral load - and this would be most people in the West on simple enough treatment regimens -



    So it sounds like these women informed themselves and made an informed decision that the risk was negligible.

    It is because of the effectiveness of the treatment that babies can now be safely born to HIV+ mothers with only the very remotest theoretical risk of infection. To put that another way, it's unheard of in recent years for an infected baby to be born when the HIV+ mother is undergoing treatment and adheres to the regimen.

    Theoretically, if everyone presently infected with HIV was treated appropriately, the disease would die out as that generation does.

    Unfortunately the greatest tragedy of our time is that there is approaching 38 million people around the world living with HIV and AIDS, many of whom have no access to treatment.

    Wow I didn't know any of that. I'm sorry thus if my previous post came across as ignorant. I guess it just goes to show how info on HIV is perpetuated socially and in the media


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    #407
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    anna080 wrote: »
    Wow I didn't know any of that. I'm sorry thus if my previous post came across as ignorant. I guess it just goes to show how info on HIV is perpetuated socially and in the media

    It certainly shows up a reluctance to shake hands as being uninformed anyway. :)


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    #408
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    To lighten the mood, I was seven/eight/nine when the AIDS scare was at its peak. I remember it very well - it was being talked about non stop, and that scary ad...

    But I didn't know what this terrible, apocalyptic (and that really was how it was spoken about) disease was caused by, and adults tended to be cagey about it. I kept hearing the word "sex" in relation to it also. So one day, when the little old lady up the road was in my mother's house for tea, my curiosity no longer something I could ignore, I sauntered into the room, bellowing "Mam, what's SEXXXXXXXX?!" (I'm imagining myself saying it in a Grandpa Simpson voice).


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    #409
    Sala
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Sala


    I have learned more about HIV in the last couple of days than in my life before that. Aside from the tabloid rags, there's good articles about other people living with HIV. Maybe I should be embarrassed to admit this, but I honestly never heard of drugs making the virus undetectable. From what I've read a lot of the people diagnosed early and treated properly seem as healthy as anyone and can have fulfilling safe sexual relationships.
    Well impressed with how far the research has come.

    Wouldn't wish HIV on anyone but having such a high profile person reveal they are HIV positive really does help educate people. It's working for me anyway


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    #410
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think Charlie Sheen coming out as HIV+ is going to be the starting point for a lot of people in finding out the present situation for those with the virus.

    It could, ironically, be the best thing he's ever done in his life if he's responsible for people becoming better informed.


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    #411
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Sala wrote: »
    I have learned more about HIV in the last couple of days than in my life before that. Aside from the tabloid rags, there's good articles about other people living with HIV. Maybe I should be embarrassed to admit this, but I honestly never heard of drugs making the virus undetectable. From what I've read a lot of the people diagnosed early and treated properly seem as healthy as anyone and can have fulfilling safe sexual relationships.
    Well impressed with how far the research has come.

    Wouldn't wish HIV on anyone but having such a high profile person reveal they are HIV positive really does help educate people. It's working for me anyway

    Same. It has also made me want to educate myself more on the subject because it seems to be the case that so many are ill informed about it (myself included)


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    #412
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Samaris wrote: »
    Soooo...no-one has latex allergies then? The only reason not to use them is to not use them?

    That makes sense.

    Whats so hard to get about non latex condoms being widely available :confused:


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    #413
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Whats so hard to get about non latex condoms being widely available :confused:

    That's what I'm wondering, but you're the one doing the protesting. Latex condoms just happen to be better than other sorts to prevent the transmission of HIV.


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    #414
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Samaris wrote: »
    That's what I'm wondering, but you're the one doing the protesting. Latex condoms just happen to be better than other sorts to prevent the transmission of HIV.

    Can I hammer this point home one final time, there is widely available condoms that are not made of latex that are just as effective at preventing HIV (FDA approved etc).
    If somebody has a latex allergy they don't have to have unsafe sex unless they want to.

    Your criticizing another user about a lack of knowledge but your displaying the same thing yourself by spouting this information that having a latex allergy excuses risk taking behaviour :rolleyes:
    Samaris wrote: »
    This one isn't actually about being professionally offended or PCness, it's that you have an astonishing lack of knowledge about HIV, and thus your choices look either ignorant or kinda douchey.

    Not -everything- that pertains to acting like a human being is "PC".


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    #415
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    We don't fully understand HIV or AIDS. (The fact we haven't developed a cure for it yet, is strong evidence of this)
    I kinda hope you're taking the piss.
    Understanding how a disease works and knowing how to cure it are two different thing. We probably know more about the HIV virus than we do about smallpox, polio, measles, etc. Understanding the mechanisms of the body's immune system would probably be as much help in curing HIV/AIDS than any further knowledge on the virus.
    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    Science is always discovering new things that we didn't understand yesterday or today.
    Perhaps you should start with trying to comprehend the stuff science discovered yesterday/decades ago.
    Might seem trivial to you but the scientific denialism you and a few others espouse here are exactly the sort of stuff that ends up costing peoples lives, whether through crackpot vaccine conspiracy theories or HIV/AIDS denial by the South African government.


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    #416
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    I kinda hope you're taking the piss.
    Understanding how a disease works and knowing how to cure it are two different thing. We probably know more about the HIV virus than we do about smallpox, polio, measles, etc. Understanding the mechanisms of the body's immune system would probably be as much help in curing HIV/AIDS than any further knowledge on the virus.

    Perhaps you should start with trying to comprehend the stuff science discovered yesterday/decades ago.
    Might seem trivial to you but the scientific denialism you and a few others espouse here are exactly the sort of stuff that ends up costing peoples lives, whether through crackpot vaccine conspiracy theories or HIV/AIDS denial by the South African government.

    Yep. It's probably the most-studied virus in the world. We know it literally inside out. Every molecule (every atom, in fact). We also know pretty much every molecule in the human body it interacts with to the same degree.

    There's still work to be done, but to suggest there's some big mystery around HIV/AIDS is just plain bollocks.


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    #417
    ShowMeTheCash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭ShowMeTheCash


    AtomicHorror wrote: »
    Yep. It's probably the most-studied virus in the world. We know it literally inside out. Every molecule (every atom, in fact). We also know pretty much every molecule in the human body it interacts with to the same degree.

    There's still work to be done, but to suggest there's some big mystery around HIV/AIDS is just plain bollocks.

    I think you need to take a step back people are now jumping down peoples throat at the mere suggestion of something.

    Yes it is the most studied virus ever, more cash has been thrown at it than any other before it. They know in a lot of detailed how it works, how it infects and how it spreads.

    What they don't know is why in some people it will lay dormant for years even decades and then what triggers it to come out of it's dormant state, or maybe they have answered this?

    In terms of conspiracy that's partly the fault of Pharmaceutical companies these companies in the 80s used healthy patient with HIV as ginnie-pigs with lethal drugs under the banner of "you're gonna die anyways"... Most of them died within the year, most of which would of lived longer healthier lives without using drugs like AZT.


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    #418
    ShowMeTheCash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭ShowMeTheCash


    So what is the story with the law-suits, are people suing for simply being put at risk? Did they not put themselves as risk by having unprotected sex?

    If he did not disclose it, it's a scumbag thing to do, but that being said, I liken unprotected sex with Charlie Sheen to that of unprotected sex with an African prostitute whether he disclosed it or did not disclose it these people need to take some responsibility for their own actions.

    F##k those greedy sl#ts!


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    #419
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    osarusan wrote: »
    I remember when I was in primary school, somebody had gone home for lunch and come back with some ice-cream between two wafers.

    They wouldn't share it with me 'because of the AIDS.'

    Seems like we've still got people with that mentality.

    Yeah I remember in the mid 80's playground at school the game of 'Tig' suddenly got renamed 'Aids', in that by touching someone you immediately passed it onto them. By the end of the week we all had Aids by that reckoning :rolleyes:

    iirc 1986 was when most people became aware of what HIV was when Freddie Mercury contracted it. There was a huge stigma attached to it but Freddie showed us the human side of it. Then in 1988 Princess Diana campaigned against the stigma by sitting with and shaking the hand of a HIV sufferer in Africa.

    I had always thought that Freddie and Princess Di did remarkable work in exposing the ignorance associated with people who are HIV positive. That was back in 1988 and its now 2015 and I can't believe some of the posts on this thread. At least they're in a very small minority.


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    #420
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,341 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Seems one of his exes has said she knew he was HIV and still had sex with him without a condom so looks like he didn't hide it from her.

    A lot of people were ready to tar and feather him without waiting for the full story to come out.


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    #421
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Seems one of his exes has said she knew he was HIV and still had sex with him without a condom so looks like he didn't hide it from her.

    A lot of people were ready to tar and feather him without waiting for the full story to come out.

    There are two sides to every story. More have come out saying that he didnt inform them and that he paid extra for unprotected sex. Of course, because they are prostitutes and porn stars they are "greedy sluts" (posted above).

    Charlie's really done a great job of painting himself as he victim. I'm sure as more stuff comes out the tide will turn.


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