STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Stove Fan · 13-01-2012 1:02am

Deedsie wrote: »

Sorry i am so late getting back to you and thanks for your comments so far. Ya, a recess outside is exactly what i was hoping to do. It is an extension at the back of the house built about 16 years ago. I am fairly sure it is a cavity wall.

I think it will end up just being a reinstall without the recess. How much do you think that would cost? Ballpark?

I certainly think a re install is best.

Hi I would say 1 and a half days labour tops and whatever extras are needed. Very hard to tell without seeing the job and measuring. Ie 2 45 degree bends and an extra couple of lengths of twin wall. I being a telescopic adjustable length for going through the wall

around 550-800 allowing 350 for labour at a very rough guess:(.

I would get at least three quotes and see what twin wall flue pipe is reusable.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 13-01-2012 1:10am

john_cappa wrote: »

Thats a good idea re installing the flashing kit. Makes sense.

Going through the roof would be best for that i think also. I thought a perfectly straight chimney was a bad thing? or is that just for an open fireplace?

No, A perfectly straight flue is the most ideal, even for an open fire. It's an old wives tale that you need a bend in the flue to stop downdraught, ie smoke blowing down and rain.

Straight is the best:)

Stove Fan:)

DizzyOC · 13-01-2012 10:28am

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, so long as the flue pipe fits inside the flue collar of the stove and all joins are socket end up you won't get any tar leaking out, it will just run internally and get evaporated by the heat of the fire.
Yes you can use stove rope and fire cement to join if the gap is large.

If your flue is clay lined your installer should join the stove pipe to the clay lined flue with an adapter if possible. This stops tar/condensation leaking out at the point of the clay liners base and directs it to the inside and will evaporate by the heat of the fire. Joining the stoves flue pipe to the clay liner makes sweeping easier as the soot would fall down into the stove rather than having to remove the stove to sweep the chimney and shovel up the soot.

So long as you burn well seasoned firewood with a moisture content less than 20% you shouldn't have a problem with tar formation. Try not to slumber burn for too long and have a good fire going for 20 minutes twice a day, or just have a normal fire. It's when people refuel the fire and straight away shut the air supply and then leave it to smoulder overnight is the greatest risk of tar especially with unseasoned wood. Let it burn for 15 minutes prior to shutting down.

Stove Fan:)

Hi Stove Fan!
Have been reading through this thread. Your knowledge-base is superb & the time you take to work through peoples questions is extraordinary. Thank you very much for your answers to my questions and also to everyone else's - you have given me & many others so much information - and with a safety aspect prevalent too.
Once again, many, many thanks & a very happy new year to you!
/d

Deedsie · 13-01-2012 12:56pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

I certainly think a re install is best.

Hi I would say 1 and a half days labour tops and whatever extras are needed. Very hard to tell without seeing the job and measuring. Ie 2 45 degree bends and an extra couple of lengths of twin wall. I being a telescopic adjustable length for going through the wall

around 550-800 allowing 350 for labour at a very rough guess:(.

I would get at least three quotes and see what twin wall flue pipe is reusable.

Stove Fan:)

Do you know any installers in Ireland with websites? Or better yet anyone in the Midwest?

john_cappa · 13-01-2012 5:22pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

No, A perfectly straight flue is the most ideal, even for an open fire. It's an old wives tale that you need a bend in the flue to stop downdraught, ie smoke blowing down and rain.

Straight is the best:)

Stove Fan:)

Really? lol!!

Had an convo with a builder who swore you needed a bend. He didnt know why but he said he has always been told a bend is need to stop smoke blowing out etc.

Reyman · 13-01-2012 6:25pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) As your building a new build I would as you say buy a stove with an external air supply option. This can be piped under the floor while the floor is being laid if the stove/chimney is on an internal wall. This has a duct from outside to the stove and so then does not need an air vent in the room if over 5kw. This air vent would be needed even if the stove is below 5kw in a house thats very airtight, but not as the stove comes with air supply option.
I think a 4 kw stove would be adequate especially if the insulation is good. If you want to have the stove to warm up other rooms then a 6 kw stove would be ideal. The nice thing with charnwood is they are very controllable and have varying heat outputs.

Stoves need air to circulate round them to dissipate the heat when freestanding in a fireplace opening. You wouldn't have to build the fireplace out of firebrick as any brick would do as there wouldn't be as intense heat as the fire isn't in direct contact with the brick.
For building regulations you must have 150mm on each side of the stove and 300mm above the stove, more if you can. This applies to all stoves freestanding in a fireplace opening.
The stove that I would highly regard is the charnwood Island 1 see: http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/island-i.aspx
or charnwood Cove 2. See:
http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/cove-2.aspx
Both come with external air option.
Or Clearview vision 500
http://www.clearviewstoves.com/vision500.htm
Again an external air kit is available.

For your inset stove I presume fully built into the wall, have a look at the woodwarm fireview 4k or 6.5kw.
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwinsetfireview.ashx
or Clearview vision 500.
http://www.clearviewstoves.com/visioninset.htm

Woodwarm stoves are very well made but not as well known here compared to charnwood. Both are excellent brands.

Clearview stoves are excellent too, as well as Morso.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Morso-stoves.html

For stove reviews on both these stoves by owners see.
www.whatstove.co.uk

Stove Fan:)

Hi Stovefan,

I notice above you say it is useful it is to have an external air supply to the stove even if it's only 5kw!
Question: If I have a void of 2-3ft under my floorboards and it's a bungalow. Is it enough to vent from the stove into the void or does a duct have to be run right out to an external wall?
Thanks

Stove Fan · 13-01-2012 6:29pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Do you know any installers in Ireland with websites? Or better yet anyone in the Midwest?

Hi:) many thanks for the very kind comments and Happy New Year to all!! I try my best to give good advice:D Unfortunately I dont know of any installers and couldn't recommend any installers websites here:(

J,C. I love your builders comments an absolute classic:D LOL!!

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 13-01-2012 6:42pm

Reyman wrote: »

Hi Stovefan,

I notice above you say it is useful it is to have an external air supply to the stove even if it's only 5kw!
Question: If I have a void of 2-3ft under my floorboards and it's a bungalow. Is it enough to vent from the stove into the void or does a duct have to be run right out to an external wall?
Thanks

Hi:) You only need a vent in the room if the house is very airtight under 5kw. If its not airtight you only need a vent on a stove rated over 5kw.
See. http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove-ventilation.html
See the table with no draught stabiliser.

If you were to fit a stove with the external air kit duct it would be best to run the duct straight from the stove through the outside wall with grill. If you just left it dangling under the floor it could get blocked by nesting mice:) and getcreepie crawlies through when not lit.

Stove Fan:)

Officer Giggles · 13-01-2012 6:44pm

I currently have a 4 bed semi D approx. 155m2 with an old wall mounted non condensing gas boiler and open fire with no back boiler. There are 9 radiators in the house. I'm in the process of planning an extension that will take the house to approx 200m2 with 12-14 rads. I want to upgrade the gas boiler, install solar panels and put in a stove. Now my question is can all these three be linked into a triple coil cylinder. I want to be able to have hot water and heat in the rads from either the gas or the stove depending on what I have on. Iv had a few "gasmen" from rgii.ie to get a quote but a few of them don't seem too enthusiastic about linking a gas boiler and a solid fuel heat source. Are they just not able to do the job or have the a right to be concerned.

Thanks

Stove Fan · 13-01-2012 11:32pm

Officer Giggles wrote: »

I currently have a 4 bed semi D approx. 155m2 with an old wall mounted non condensing gas boiler and open fire with no back boiler. There are 9 radiators in the house. I'm in the process of planning an extension that will take the house to approx 200m2 with 12-14 rads. I want to upgrade the gas boiler, install solar panels and put in a stove. Now my question is can all these three be linked into a triple coil cylinder. I want to be able to have hot water and heat in the rads from either the gas or the stove depending on what I have on. Iv had a few "gasmen" from rgii.ie to get a quote but a few of them don't seem too enthusiastic about linking a gas boiler and a solid fuel heat source. Are they just not able to do the job or have the a right to be concerned.

Thanks

Hi:) Linking the three heat sources is a very basic job for a plumber. You can as you say use a triple coil cylinder but if it was me I would consider a thermal store available in many different sizes. The thermal store is more expensive but it's super insulated and looses very little heat. It can also allow all three heat sources to be connected.

The very big plus if your water pressure is good, is mains pressure hot water. The thermal store has a coil through it and the hot water inside the store heats the domestic hot water going through the coil. Thermal stores are quite efficient and are worth considering.
http://www.accumulatortanks.co.uk/

If cost is a factor either go triple coil or a bit better a systemlink. If cost is your priority I think system link would give the best value as it comes with zoning options too, especially if saving space is important. The system link would go in the hotpress.
http://www.systemlink.ie/

So the 3 main ways to plumb in the three heat sources are:
1 Triple coil cylinder.
2 Thermal store.
3 Systemlink

Stove Fan:)

doniepony · 14-01-2012 4:00pm

Hi stovefan and everyone

Thank you for your previous advice about the stoves and I have looked at the charnwood island 1 (5kw) and really liked it..I think I will go for this (free standing) in my main living room. I have allowed for a 4'' duct to allow for an external air supply so hopefully this will work ok?

As I said previously, I also have a insert stove in the sunroom (looking for a fishbowl affect. I saw a stove-Hunter Di Lusso 4.9 KW-that I really like but its v expensive (€1500 approx). As this stove will not be used as often I am hoping to maybe look for a cheaper alternative (without compromising too much on quality). Also, the Hunter model has no pipe for an external kit but he assured me that as its under 5KW that it does not need one (even though the house is quiet air tight). Could anyone advise me please if they feel there is a better option out there- I would love to see the woodwarn fireview but am based in cork and cant seem to find a stockist there.

Have looked at the Boru Fiachra but it does not look as nice at all. Has good efficiency though

Stove Fan · 14-01-2012 4:38pm

doniepony wrote: »

Hi stovefan and everyone

Thank you for your previous advice about the stoves and I have looked at the charnwood island 1 (5kw) and really liked it..I think I will go for this (free standing) in my main living room. I have allowed for a 4'' duct to allow for an external air supply so hopefully this will work ok?

As I said previously, I also have a insert stove in the sunroom (looking for a fishbowl affect. I saw a stove-Hunter Di Lusso 4.9 KW-that I really like but its v expensive (€1500 approx). As this stove will not be used as often I am hoping to maybe look for a cheaper alternative (without compromising too much on quality). Also, the Hunter model has no pipe for an external kit but he assured me that as its under 5KW that it does not need one (even though the house is quiet air tight). Could anyone advise me please if they feel there is a better option out there- I would love to see the woodwarn fireview but am based in cork and cant seem to find a stockist there.

Have looked at the Boru Fiachra but it does not look as nice at all. Has good efficiency though

The charnwood island is a fab stove, very good quality etc. The 4 inch duct will be fine.
You should be ok on the inset stove for air supply under 5kw. Your installer will say if an additional vent is needed when he fits the fire and tests for spillage with all doors and windows closed. An air vent is really only needed under 5kw if the house is very airtight. If you had your house tested for aiirtightness show the stove installer the test results.
I personally have never heard of an external air supply option for an inset stove. Not to say they don't exist though?
Woodwarm stoves dealer in Cork is;
Flor O MahoneyUnit 6 South Cork Industrial Estate,Vicars Road,Pouladuff, Co CorkIrelandTel: 00353 21 4322033 Fax: 00353 21 4322044

For your inset stove choice consider the ESSE 300 range.
http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog/-c-21_35.html

Stove Fan:)

WaltKowalski · 14-01-2012 10:14pm

I don't think this is possible but will ask anyways!

Can underfloor heating be run off a solid fuel stove?
I'm looking at the stanley range of stoves.
I know you can run up to 12 rads, no mention of underfloor heating though.

Gunth · 14-01-2012 10:40pm

Hi Stovefan,
I have read the bulk of this thread and you are the expert as far as I can see so hopefully you will be able to help me. I would like to get a non-boiler stove for an open plan living/kitchen/dining room. This is L shaped in layout and we plan on having the stove in living room which leads to the kitchen and the dining room is off left to the kitchen. The living room/kitchen dimensions are 8.7mx3.7m and the dining room is 4.5mx3.7m all with 2.5m ceilings and the house is timber framed with average insulation.
We accept the fact that as the stove is in the living room the dining room will be cooler as it is the furthest room from the stove, we don't mind if we have to turn on a radiator in the dining room. If we can get a stove that will emit sufficient heat and not to have to use any radiator this would be a bonus.
At the moment there is a fireplace in the living room with a gas insert and the chimney breast is external so plan is to get a free standing stove with the flue running straight up and through the wall where it will meet the chimney outside.
We like contemporary stoves and like the Jotel F 163. This has an output of up to 9kw and is woodburning. Would this stove produce heat that is unbearable in the living room? Would we be better off to get a smaller kw rated stove and use a radiator instead in the dining room?
Sorry for all the questions but only a few more to go:).
Is it correct to sit the stove onto a slab and cement this to the floor? Can the flue leave the stove about 1metre above it and as it goes through the wall can you seal the wall as this point as normal or do you have to use non flamable materials to seal the gap around the flue pipe? I have also read that it is better to line the chimney with a flue, should this be a flexible stainless steel flue?
As the stove has to be a certain distance from the wall I read that as the flue turns to the wall it is better to have a 45 degree bend rather than a 90 degree? Once the flue has the first 45 degree bend on it, is there a limit on the length of pipe that can be used before it meets the second 45 degree bend as I read that a horizontal piece can not be more than 6" long?
What do people think of a wood burning compared to a multifuel one? I don't have access to any fuel so everything has to bought. I read about the moisture content level and see that kiln dried wood is a lot more expensive to buy. Am I worrying too much about everything?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Stove Fan · 14-01-2012 11:27pm

WaltKowalski wrote: »

I don't think this is possible but will ask anyways!

Can underfloor heating be run off a solid fuel stove?
I'm looking at the stanley range of stoves.
I know you can run up to 12 rads, no mention of underfloor heating though.

Hi, No not directly, as far as I know, the stove being an uncontrollable heat source the water would be too hot. The stove could heat a thermal store and the feed to the underfloor heating from the store is taken lower down the thermal store where the water is the required lower temp for underfloor.

The top of the tank will be the outflow to the hotter rads.
See previous link on thermal stores.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 15-01-2012 12:12am

Gunth wrote: »

Hi Stovefan,
I have read the bulk of this thread and you are the expert as far as I can see so hopefully you will be able to help me. I would like to get a non-boiler stove for an open plan living/kitchen/dining room. This is L shaped in layout and we plan on having the stove in living room which leads to the kitchen and the dining room is off left to the kitchen. The living room/kitchen dimensions are 8.7mx3.7m and the dining room is 4.5mx3.7m all with 2.5m ceilings and the house is timber framed with average insulation.
We accept the fact that as the stove is in the living room the dining room will be cooler as it is the furthest room from the stove, we don't mind if we have to turn on a radiator in the dining room. If we can get a stove that will emit sufficient heat and not to have to use any radiator this would be a bonus.
At the moment there is a fireplace in the living room with a gas insert and the chimney breast is external so plan is to get a free standing stove with the flue running straight up and through the wall where it will meet the chimney outside.
We like contemporary stoves and like the Jotel F 163. This has an output of up to 9kw and is woodburning. Would this stove produce heat that is unbearable in the living room? Would we be better off to get a smaller kw rated stove and use a radiator instead in the dining room?
Sorry for all the questions but only a few more to go:).
Is it correct to sit the stove onto a slab and cement this to the floor? Can the flue leave the stove about 1metre above it and as it goes through the wall can you seal the wall as this point as normal or do you have to use non flamable materials to seal the gap around the flue pipe? I have also read that it is better to line the chimney with a flue, should this be a flexible stainless steel flue?
As the stove has to be a certain distance from the wall I read that as the flue turns to the wall it is better to have a 45 degree bend rather than a 90 degree? Once the flue has the first 45 degree bend on it, is there a limit on the length of pipe that can be used before it meets the second 45 degree bend as I read that a horizontal piece can not be more than 6" long?
What do people think of a wood burning compared to a multifuel one? I don't have access to any fuel so everything has to bought. I read about the moisture content level and see that kiln dried wood is a lot more expensive to buy. Am I worrying too much about everything?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Hi, thanks for the kind comments:)
I think that the dining room could be on the cool side, but an ecofan on top of the stove would help spread the heat around the rooms. I dont think you would roast providing you have an ecofan and the rooms are all open to each other. You still may need a radiator in the dining room. It's very hard to say really.
You need around 6kw up to 9kw to heat all the 3 spaces. Personally I think 6 kw would be adequate depending on insualation specs and what direction the rooms face and how much sunlight comes in. Are you sure it has an output of up to 9kw? http://www.jotul.com/en-GB/wwwjotulukcom/Main-Menu/Products/Wood--Multi-fuel/Stoves/Jotul-F-163/

The stove should be placed on a non combustible hearth at least 5 inches thick. As the Jotul F163 has legs it may be suitable for a 12mm thick hearth. It should say if this is the case as you could have it standing on a 12mm toughened glass hearth.
Yes the flue can go vertical and then have a 45 degree bend through the wall using what length needed and then another 45 degree bend.
I would join the fluepipe to a new stainless steel flue liner in the external chimney. Using 90 degree bends should not be used, best to use 45 degree ones going through the wall as soot won't gather in any horizontal runs. Building regs state you can only have 150mm of horizontal run when using the rear exit on the stove.
All flue pipes and stove need to be away from flammable materials and or heat shielded. See:
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/flue-distance-to-combustibles.html
This link has many stove installation regulations:)
The stove manufacturers will state the stoves clearance distance to flammable materials

We have a multifuel boiler stove but mostly burn softwood. Its around 62 euro a cubic metre or 245 euro a tipper cab load. We find it dearer to use than coal. If you are using 13 hours a day or very regular you may decide a multifuel stove is best. We do burn turf though with our wood without the grate and it works well.

No your certainly not worrying unnecessarily as a badly installed stove could prove lethal.

Stove Fan:)

Officer Giggles · 15-01-2012 5:01pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) Linking the three heat sources is a very basic job for a plumber. You can as you say use a triple coil cylinder but if it was me I would consider a thermal store available in many different sizes. The thermal store is more expensive but it's super insulated and looses very little heat. It can also allow all three heat sources to be connected.

The very big plus if your water pressure is good, is mains pressure hot water. The thermal store has a coil through it and the hot water inside the store heats the domestic hot water going through the coil. Thermal stores are quite efficient and are worth considering.
http://www.accumulatortanks.co.uk/

If cost is a factor either go triple coil or a bit better a systemlink. If cost is your priority I think system link would give the best value as it comes with zoning options too, especially if saving space is important. The system link would go in the hotpress.
http://www.systemlink.ie/

So the 3 main ways to plumb in the three heat sources are:
1 Triple coil cylinder.
2 Thermal store.
3 Systemlink

Stove Fan:)

Thanks Stove Fan, Your level of knowledge on this area is unbeatable. You hardly fancy a job........:D

One of the plumbers I had in suggested this boiler for me, any thoughts or alternatives

http://www.worcester-bosch.ie/homeowner/boilers/gas-boilers/greenstar-30cdi-system

I have been looking at the Stanley Reginald as it was the biggest stove I saw when I was looking in a local building providers showroom, again have you any alternative suggestions

http://www.waterfordstanley.com/Products/1724.htm

Think the system link is the way to go for me as money will be tight trying to get all my work done

Finally the plumber also suggested the worcester-bosch solar panels, you'd never guess he was an agent for them, are they any good or are there better ones out there

Thanks for all your help

Stove Fan · 15-01-2012 6:28pm

Officer Giggles wrote: »

Thanks Stove Fan, Your level of knowledge on this area is unbeatable. You hardly fancy a job........:D

One of the plumbers I had in suggested this boiler for me, any thoughts or alternatives

http://www.worcester-bosch.ie/homeowner/boilers/gas-boilers/greenstar-30cdi-system

I have been looking at the Stanley Reginald as it was the biggest stove I saw when I was looking in a local building providers showroom, again have you any alternative suggestions

http://www.waterfordstanley.com/Products/1724.htm

Think the system link is the way to go for me as money will be tight trying to get all my work done

Finally the plumber also suggested the worcester-bosch solar panels, you'd never guess he was an agent for them, are they any good or are there better ones out there

Thanks for all your help

Hi, Thanks:) I used to install worcester combi boilers about 8 years ago now and always rated Worcester Bosch. Vaillant are another good boiler. I don't know anything about condensing boilers as they came out after I gave up fitting gas appliances. I never had any major problems with worcester boilers:D I was never an agent for them.

I really need to know the total heating load for the boiler stove before I can recommend a boiler stove:).
If you already have all the rads fitted in the rooms or know the total heat loss of the building that would be great. I would also need the room size where the stove is going.
Take no notice of the stove manufacturers who quote the number of rads as rads come in many different sizes and they generally only quote for singles and not double rads.

I think the system link is a good option although the boiler would be best too be a conventional boiler (open vented condensing) rather than a system boiler.
Sorry I don't know anything about solar panels.

Stove Fan:)

stoves1 · 15-01-2012 6:51pm

hi, i would appreciate a recommendation for a 4-5kw multifuel stand alone stove to fit on fireplace hearth presently considering

morso squirrel 4010
parkray compact 5.

are there any others i should consider and any stove suppliers recommended (pm suppliers if appropiate i live in dublin area but willing to travel to purchase if applicable) many thanks

Gunth · 15-01-2012 8:08pm

Hi Stovefan,
Thank you for replying to my mail and for taking the time to answer all my questions. You have clarified a lot of things for me which I really appreciate.
The reason I picked out the Jotul F163 is that I liked the look of it and I viewed one yesterday in a local stove shop. The guy in the shop gave me a brochure and the reason that we were considering it was that he told me it was a 9kw stove which would be perfect for the area we wanted to heat:rolleyes:. On the brochure it states that this stove has a minimum output of 3.7kw and a maximum of 9.0kw with a rated output of 5kw. Sorry for the stupid question but what do they state all these figures if the output is just 5kw?
After further research today I now realise that very few stoves are made to give an output of 8kw or greater in the style that I like. You suggested a 6kw stove and to use the radiator as back up in the dining room if needed,which sounds like the best option I think. I should have stated in my original mail that the kitchen/dining is south facing and the house has average insulation.
I came across a Morso 7648 which is pricey but will give an output of 6.2kw and also a Jotul F473 which gives 6.0kw. Any reason why one might be better than the other?
Thanks again Stovefan.

Stove Fan · 15-01-2012 10:30pm

stoves1 wrote: »

hi, i would appreciate a recommendation for a 4-5kw multifuel stand alone stove to fit on fireplace hearth presently considering

morso squirrel 4010
parkray compact 5.

are there any others i should consider and any stove suppliers recommended (pm suppliers if appropiate i live in dublin area but willing to travel to purchase if applicable) many thanks

Hi:) Out of the two the morso is way superior to the parkray. The squirrel is a very good stove.

Another option is the charnwood country 4.
http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/country-4.aspx

Another: Charnwood C Four. Like this more than the country 4. Very nice looking.
http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/cfour.aspx

Another option. Woodwarm Firefox.
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwmultifuelstove.ashx

Woodwarm fireview 4.5
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwfireview.ashx

And another option. Clearview pioneer 400.
http://www.clearviewstoves.com/pioneer400.htm

The Charnwood and woodwarm are a very good brand.
Clearview have a very good reputation too, but woodwarm are the same as clearview quality wise but not as known here in Ireland. Woodwarm are cheaper than Clearview. See reviews here. www.whatstove.co.uk

I dont know of any suppliers here:( What a hard choice you have:)

Stove Fan:)

stoves1 · 15-01-2012 11:40pm

many thanks for your reply stovefan, when i picked the name stoves1 years ago little did i know how apt it would be, as i did not think it would be used in this discussion forum, i know pretty little about stoves, but must have been looking at a stove/heating brochure when registering for boards.
anyhow had a builder call this weekend, he says when i get the stove he will install it, so will ring some dealers this week to get best prices on one of your selection, again many thanks:(

Stove Fan · 15-01-2012 11:49pm

stoves1 wrote: »

many thanks for your reply stovefan, when i picked the name stoves1 years ago little did i know how apt it would be, as i did not think it would be used in this discussion forum, i know pretty little about stoves, but must have been looking at a stove/heating brochure when registering for boards.
anyhow had a builder call this weekend, he says when i get the stove he will install it, so will ring some dealers this week to get best prices on one of your selection, again many thanks:(

You have a very apt username:D Any queries feel free to PM or post here.

Let us know which you pick and how you rate it:)

Good luck Stove Fan:)

about2build · 16-01-2012 7:25pm

Looking for advice on sourcing an insert stove with back boiler and an external air supply. I also want the stove to supply heat to the room as well as a few rads upstairs and hot water. Im in Galway. Any help greatly appreciated

Stove Fan · 16-01-2012 11:27pm

about2build wrote: »

Looking for advice on sourcing an insert stove with back boiler and an external air supply. I also want the stove to supply heat to the room as well as a few rads upstairs and hot water. Im in Galway. Any help greatly appreciated

Hi, sent you a pm:) Unfortunately I dont know of any insert boiler stove with external air supply:(

Ps found two!!:D

http://www.esse.com/multifuel-stoves/350gs/ In the optional extras at the bottom it says external air option.

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Woodfire-RS-series-insert-stoves.html
Expensive though:(

Your other option is a freestanding boiler stove.

Dunsley yorkshire boiler stove can have an external air supply.

Also Dunsley highlander 10CH.
http://www.dunsleyheat.co.uk/highland10CH.htm

Also the clearview 650/750

http://www.clearviewstoves.com/clearview650.htm

Quite a few of the stanley boiler stoves have external air.

http://www.waterfordstanley.com/Products/1100.htm This may be the best option. Low room heat and 8kw to boiler. Enough for about 4x, 600x700 double rads plus hot water.

http://www.waterfordstanley.com/Products/1103.htm

Just make sure your plumber specifies and calculates the boiler output and room output required, especially as your house will be well insulated.

Stove Fan

about2build · 16-01-2012 11:59pm

Stove fan you are a true fan!!! Quality response. And thanks...without having seen the plans do you think 2 kw would be enough for the room?? I guess you'd need to see full specs for that but it just seems low. I have my heart set on an insert tbh with the back boiler but must get the prec right. Also Im using the mhrv so really need an external air suppl which seems to come more as a n extra than the standard

Stove Fan · 17-01-2012 12:43am

about2build wrote: »

Stove fan you are a true fan!!! Quality response. And thanks...without having seen the plans do you think 2 kw would be enough for the room?? I guess you'd need to see full specs for that but it just seems low. I have my heart set on an insert tbh with the back boiler but must get the prec right. Also Im using the mhrv so really need an external air suppl which seems to come more as a n extra than the standard

Hi:)

As you say it's very hard to say what output is needed as any plumber would need to know the room sizes and height and the standard of insulation.
Your plumber will visit and size the room output and the boiler size required. He will then choose a stove that fits these specs.
The more insulated the house is the less heat it requires:D Passive builds need virtually no space heating apart from a small boiler for domestic hot water.

See www.whatstove.co.uk for stove reviews by owners.

Stove Fan:)

doniepony · 17-01-2012 5:47pm

Hey everyone

Stovefan cheers for earlier advice and have decided on the Charnwood island 1 as my free standing stove in main living area but still undecided for my insert stove in the sunroom. At the moment the Boru 400i is standing out as it is right KW for room, can be fitted with external air kit and fits the hollow in the wall. There does not seem to be much out there to match it based on cost,size and efficiency with an external air kit.

However I cannot get any reviews or anyone's personal experience with it--it is an Irish company but think they are made in China-high efficiency (82%), ok to look at, can be fitted with external air supply and fits in the space I have available.

Id really appreciate if anyone had any feedback on this particular stove.

Cheers

Stove Fan · 17-01-2012 9:06pm

doniepony wrote: »

Hey everyone

Stovefan cheers for earlier advice and have decided on the Charnwood island 1 as my free standing stove in main living area but still undecided for my insert stove in the sunroom. At the moment the Boru 400i is standing out as it is right KW for room, can be fitted with external air kit and fits the hollow in the wall. There does not seem to be much out there to match it based on cost,size and efficiency with an external air kit.

However I cannot get any reviews or anyone's personal experience with it--it is an Irish company but think they are made in China-high efficiency (82%), ok to look at, can be fitted with external air supply and fits in the space I have available.

Id really appreciate if anyone had any feedback on this particular stove.

Cheers

Hi, Sorry I have no direct experience:(

Stove Fan:)

legrand · 18-01-2012 12:35am

Hi there (anyone:)).

Have open unused fireplace (recessed opening in wall - no mantle etc installed).

Looking to purchase a stove (6Kw Brunel 2CB or Dovre 250 likely).

Currently I have my LCD TV on a stand to left of fireplace and as part of the overall effort I want to install a stove and mount TV on wall overhead.

I intend to install a wood mantle above the fireplace open which will extend ~6 inches. The stove itself will extend outside the plane of the wall by 150mm (half in half out of the opening if you get me).

I'm a wee bit concerned the heat from the stove may negatively effect TV but hoping mantel would mitigate by deflecting heat away from the TV screen to some degree (no pun intended).

Would be very grateful for any advise.

Thank you.

torres3011 · 18-01-2012 2:12pm

torres3011 wrote: »

Thanks again... Will drop back in to let you know how we go once she's up and running..

Cheers

Torres

Well she's in a fortnight and it's been a really worthwhile job. I has an inset stafford ecco boiler 350 installed and it's heating 10 rads and the room no bother whatsoever.

It looks great and it works great. Still have a small bit of boxing off at the side and some plastering to finish off but could not be happier.

Big thanks to you Stovefan for the advise at the time. If you're ever in Cork the pints are on me.

Thanks again

Torres.

DizzyOC · 18-01-2012 4:33pm

Howdy folks,
I have my stove in now and it's working a treat - day 5 today so will stack the fire a little higher tonight! Thanks for the help with the few questions i had - this board is a great resource.
Just as an "and finally" though, when i open the door (and i do do it slowly) i keep getting puffs of smoke coming out. It's quite annoying when i'm trying to empty the ash tray or throw on a bit of fuel - is this normal? My draught seems a little weaker than when i had the open fire before. Possible? I have a good air supply/ventilation too so i don't think it's that..?
Many thanks!

DizzyOC · 18-01-2012 4:34pm

torres3011 wrote: »

Well she's in a fortnight and it's been a really worthwhile job. I has an inset stafford ecco boiler 350 installed and it's heating 10 rads and the room no bother whatsoever.

It looks great and it works great. Still have a small bit of boxing off at the side and some plastering to finish off but could not be happier.

Big thanks to you Stovefan for the advise at the time. If you're ever in Cork the pints are on me.

Thanks again

Torres.

Have mine in since saturday - delighted with it! Good job - looks great!

Stove Fan · 18-01-2012 4:52pm

legrand wrote: »

Hi there (anyone:)).

Have open unused fireplace (recessed opening in wall - no mantle etc installed).

Looking to purchase a stove (6Kw Brunel 2CB or Dovre 250 likely).

Currently I have my LCD TV on a stand to left of fireplace and as part of the overall effort I want to install a stove and mount TV on wall overhead.

I intend to install a wood mantle above the fireplace open which will extend ~6 inches. The stove itself will extend outside the plane of the wall by 150mm (half in half out of the opening if you get me).

I'm a wee bit concerned the heat from the stove may negatively effect TV but hoping mantel would mitigate by deflecting heat away from the TV screen to some degree (no pun intended).

Would be very grateful for any advise.

Thank you.

Hi:) Personally I would advice strongly against fitting a TV above a freestanding stove. I think you may get the TV too hot or the heat haze may affect the operation of the remote control?
I would phone the manufacturers and ask them, the last thing you want to do is give them an excuse if the tv goes faulty while under guarantee:(

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 18-01-2012 5:34pm

torres3011 wrote: »

Well she's in a fortnight and it's been a really worthwhile job. I has an inset stafford ecco boiler 350 installed and it's heating 10 rads and the room no bother whatsoever.

It looks great and it works great. Still have a small bit of boxing off at the side and some plastering to finish off but could not be happier.

Big thanks to you Stovefan for the advise at the time. If you're ever in Cork the pints are on me.

Thanks again

Torres.

Hi, thanks:) It looks great, glad your very happy with your EB12HE:D
How quick do the rads take to heat up from cold? What fuel are you using?

Your now ready for some colder weather:D

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 18-01-2012 5:44pm

DizzyOC wrote: »

Howdy folks,
I have my stove in now and it's working a treat - day 5 today so will stack the fire a little higher tonight! Thanks for the help with the few questions i had - this board is a great resource.
Just as an "and finally" though, when i open the door (and i do do it slowly) i keep getting puffs of smoke coming out. It's quite annoying when i'm trying to empty the ash tray or throw on a bit of fuel - is this normal? My draught seems a little weaker than when i had the open fire before. Possible? I have a good air supply/ventilation too so i don't think it's that..?
Many thanks!

Hi:) What stove did you have fitted and what KW output is it? Is the chimney lined? Lining the chimney usually improves performance. How high is the chimney outlet above the roof? Stoves generally don't smoke out when the door is opened. Is there a permanent air vent in the room? Try opening a window before re fuelling the fire and see if it makes any difference. May be worth getting the installer to look at the problem. Make sure any baffle plate inside is centrally placed and in the right position. See the user instructions for fitting instructions. It could be many things unfortunately:( Glad that you are pleased with your new stove, except the smoking issue.

Stove Fan:)

DizzyOC · 18-01-2012 6:11pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) What stove did you have fitted and what KW output is it? Is the chimney lined? Lining the chimney usually improves performance. How high is the chimney outlet above the roof? Stoves generally don't smoke out when the door is opened. Is there a permanent air vent in the room? Try opening a window before re fuelling the fire and see if it makes any difference. May be worth getting the installer to look at the problem. Make sure any baffle plate inside is centrally placed and in the right position. See the user instructions for fitting instructions. It could be many things unfortunately:( Glad that you are pleased with your new stove, except the smoking issue.

Stove Fan:)

Hi again Stove Fan

thanks for the response!
I have a beautiful Orleans 8kw stove with the rear flue in operation.
The chimney isn't lined but it does have a super draught/draft - it's big Georgian one with a really high stack! Cowl on top. Will have a look when i'm home and see if the baffle is centered & try the open window & whatnot but we do have a plethora of air supplies into the room!

It's not a major issue by any stretch - just a little bit of smoke coming out. I was wondering if it's normal or not.
Otherwise it's fantastic!
Thanks again!

doniepony · 18-01-2012 7:22pm

Hi stovefan and everyone else

Firstly thank you stovefan for taking the time to respond to my earlier posts. It was greatly appreciated.

Three questions:
1). can anyone recommend an inset stove with approx 6 or 7 Kw that can be fitted with an external air supply-does not seem to be much out there. The stove is to be fitted approx 550mm from floor.

2). What is the best material to fit around a stove to retain heat-have built a chamber and intend on buying free standing stove and like the look of firebricks but they seem expensive- are their any better alternatives?

Finally- am currently building and looking at budget I will not be finishing one side of my house for a few years. Foolishly, I forgot that I would still have to make a decision as regards my chimney breast in my sitting room here. My builder rang today looking for sizes.

This room is 13.4 ft x 15.7 with 8.5ft ceilings. Calculating, I would need only 3 Kw stove. My problem is I do not know what size chimney breast would suit this room best. It will be on the shorter wall (13.4 ft) so am currently thinking about a 60'' chimney breast, that leaves 50'' on both sides of wall space-do people think this would look ok?
If I leave a chamber to allow for free standing stove then it looks like it would be about 26'' wide x 40 '' high (to allow for hearth and flooring). This would leave 17'' each side of the chamber if want to add a fireplace surround later. How does this sound?

I was looking at the Stanley Oisin here as it is nice and compact and cab be fitted with external air supply- however was talking to a saleperson and they said that they do not work half as well inside in these chambers as they do out in the open (I just do not like stoves out from the fireplace though!!). Can anyone advise me on this. Maybe I would be better off putting an inset stove in here too-if I was doing so would an opening of 18 or 20'' do for most stoves?

Thanks in advance for any input

Stove Fan · 18-01-2012 10:02pm

doniepony wrote: »

Hi stovefan and everyone else

Firstly thank you stovefan for taking the time to respond to my earlier posts. It was greatly appreciated.

Three questions:
1). can anyone recommend an inset stove with approx 6 or 7 Kw that can be fitted with an external air supply-does not seem to be much out there. The stove is to be fitted approx 550mm from floor.

2). What is the best material to fit around a stove to retain heat-have built a chamber and intend on buying free standing stove and like the look of firebricks but they seem expensive- are their any better alternatives?

Finally- am currently building and looking at budget I will not be finishing one side of my house for a few years. Foolishly, I forgot that I would still have to make a decision as regards my chimney breast in my sitting room here. My builder rang today looking for sizes.

This room is 13.4 ft x 15.7 with 8.5ft ceilings. Calculating, I would need only 3 Kw stove. My problem is I do not know what size chimney breast would suit this room best. It will be on the shorter wall (13.4 ft) so am currently thinking about a 60'' chimney breast, that leaves 50'' on both sides of wall space-do people think this would look ok?
If I leave a chamber to allow for free standing stove then it looks like it would be about 26'' wide x 40 '' high (to allow for hearth and flooring). This would leave 17'' each side of the chamber if want to add a fireplace surround later. How does this sound?

I was looking at the Stanley Oisin here as it is nice and compact and cab be fitted with external air supply- however was talking to a saleperson and they said that they do not work half as well inside in these chambers as they do out in the open (I just do not like stoves out from the fireplace though!!). Can anyone advise me on this. Maybe I would be better off putting an inset stove in here too-if I was doing so would an opening of 18 or 20'' do for most stoves?

Thanks in advance for any input

I could only find this one: http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog/westfire-uniq-23-woodburning-inset-stove-p-6117.html

With regards to the size of opening needed for a freestanding stove I would go with 36X36X18 inches opening. This gives you a width of 24 inches for the stove and 6 inches either side for building regulations. This regulation is to allow the hot air to freely escape.

With your room dimensions 3 or 4kw would be enough. Any masonry will absorb heat and release it after the fire has gone out. I have had freestanding villager stoves in a fireplace opening and have never had a lack of heat. So long there is plenty of space around it works fine.

If you know what freestanding stove your going for build the opening 12 inches wider and 12 inches higher than the stoves measurements.

Stove Fan:)

legrand · 19-01-2012 10:36am

Hi

Just a general observation - if you look at UK based Websites they, for the most part provide pricing against their stove products.

Conversely if you look at Irish web sites practically none (save where they may have promotion/discount offers) show prices stating POA etc. It's a real drag.

Also, not withstanding Sterling/UK currency and VAT differences - my guesstimate is that here in good old Eireee we're still paying somewhere between 25% and 30% more than UK:mad:

torres3011 · 19-01-2012 10:43am

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, thanks:) It looks great, glad your very happy with your EB12HE:D
How quick do the rads take to heat up from cold? What fuel are you using?

Your now ready for some colder weather:D

Stove Fan:)

As the pipes are not boxed off at the side just now it means that I can feel when they get hot and use this as my q to tun on the pump.

I use sticks (pallets from work) as a kindling to get a good flame going and i would say the pump is on within ten minutes.

From a cold start to very warm rads I would say 20 minutes.

We were warned by the shop and by the paperwork with the stove not to use coke or other such coals, ie only use smokeless.

My brother and father-in-law think this is a bit of a joke but at the moment unsure. They reckon the grate will melt either way and not to be too concerned with it. What do you think yourself?

We have burned turf, blocks, pallets and smokeless coal and all are good. I prefer the wood just to look at the flame. ( and the fact it's free

)

Roll on the snow

Torres

torres3011 · 19-01-2012 10:48am

DizzyOC wrote: »

Have mine in since saturday - delighted with it! Good job - looks great!

Thanks Dizzy

Hope you get the smoking sorted out.

Could be just theething problems.

Cheers

Torres

Countryboymike · 19-01-2012 11:09am

I have just got the offer of a German made stove called the Victoria 25KW.The guy just said it can do up to 18 Rads .I tried to google some info but could not find anything .Does anybody know anything about these Stoves guys.

DizzyOC · 19-01-2012 11:21am

legrand wrote: »

Hi

Just a general observation - if you look at UK based Websites they, for the most part provide pricing against their stove products.

Conversely if you look at Irish web sites practically none (save where they may have promotion/discount offers) show prices stating POA etc. It's a real drag.

Also, not withstanding Sterling/UK currency and VAT differences - my guesstimate is that here in good old Eireee we're still paying somewhere between 25% and 30% more than UK:mad:

I hear ye... it's the same on recruitment websites - employers here *never* give a salary... in Britain there will always be a ballpark figure.
The man here wants to get a look at you to see how much he can shhcalp off ye first.

Stove Fan · 19-01-2012 6:24pm

torres3011 wrote: »

As the pipes are not boxed off at the side just now it means that I can feel when they get hot and use this as my q to tun on the pump.

I use sticks (pallets from work) as a kindling to get a good flame going and i would say the pump is on within ten minutes.

From a cold start to very warm rads I would say 20 minutes.

We were warned by the shop and by the paperwork with the stove not to use coke or other such coals, ie only use smokeless.

My brother and father-in-law think this is a bit of a joke but at the moment unsure. They reckon the grate will melt either way and not to be too concerned with it. What do you think yourself?

We have burned turf, blocks, pallets and smokeless coal and all are good. I prefer the wood just to look at the flame. ( and the fact it's free )

Roll on the snow

Torres

Hi it sounds as if the quick heat up claims are true:D as ours heats the domestic hot water for around 15-40 minutes depending on how hot the water is and then the pump comes on fully by the pipe stat.
It takes around 45minutes to 90 minutes to heat all the rads depending on how hot the water in the DHW cylinder is.

I would strongly advice you to fit a pipe stat as without one if there was ever a problem with the stove the manufacturer would say its not installed to their instructions.

The reason you have a pipe stat is that it prevents too cool water circulating around the stoves boiler, you get condensation on the outside of the boiler in the stove which causes rust and shortens the life of the boiler. There have been cases on some stoves boilers only lasting 4 years because of this.

The pipe stat is great as you can't forget to switch the pump on!!! The pipe stat switches the pump on and off automatically. Set it above 40 degrees. A friend many years ago apparantly forgot to switch the pump on for her boiler stove and she flooded the place as the solder ring pipe fittings melted with the extreme heat:eek:!!

I would strongly advice only to burn smokeless fuel and not fuels like polish coal. It gets very hot and could damage the stove by overheating the metal.

We have burn premium polish coal on ours but it's very dirty:eek: I think as smokeless lasts longer it's better value and so much cleaner. We have Had no trouble with our stove burning coal but wouldnt risk nackering a new stove. We are always by the stove so never let it get out of control. If the boiler or stove warps/splits the manufacturer wouldn't pay out. Our manufacturer also says not to burn house coal and only smokeless. When we run out of coal were going to use smokeless.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 19-01-2012 6:34pm

legrand wrote: »

Hi

Just a general observation - if you look at UK based Websites they, for the most part provide pricing against their stove products.

Conversely if you look at Irish web sites practically none (save where they may have promotion/discount offers) show prices stating POA etc. It's a real drag.

Also, not withstanding Sterling/UK currency and VAT differences - my guesstimate is that here in good old Eireee we're still paying somewhere between 25% and 30% more than UK:mad:

Hi, I know what you mean:rolleyes: This is why I bought my boiler stove from the UK. Some dealers charge a very minimal delivery charge to Eire. The best thing is they will also price match if you have seen the stove cheaper somewhere else.

Even with the delivery charge I saved 250 euro on my stove:D I would love to keep my money in Ireland but until they get realistic I would always compare prices and if cheaper buy in the UK.

Stove Fan:)

about2build · 19-01-2012 10:42pm

Which dealer delivers for free stove fan???! PM if necessary. I got quoted a 65 euro delivery from uk which isnt bad but still free would be better!!! that is if they have what im looking for

theduke1 · 19-01-2012 11:33pm

about2build wrote: »

Which dealer delivers for free stove fan???! PM if necessary. I got quoted a 65 euro delivery from uk which isnt bad but still free would be better!!! that is if they have what im looking for

pm me too stove fan

Stove Fan · 19-01-2012 11:41pm

I have sent you both a PM:) It wasnt totally free but very reasonable.

Stove Fan · 19-01-2012 11:52pm

Countryboymike wrote: »

I have just got the offer of a German made stove called the Victoria 25KW.The guy just said it can do up to 18 Rads .I tried to google some info but could not find anything .Does anybody know anything about these Stoves guys.

I have looked too and found nothing:( I may be wrong but is it a cheap Chinese import? It really depends on price. A good brand stove could cost around 100 euro a kw.

Most good manufacturers have their own website with their own product range.

Ask for the phone number of the stove manufacturers and ask them what the address is of the manufacturers:D.

Ignore the salesmans claim it will heat 18 rads:( Get a plumber in to calculate the load on the boiler and choose a stove that suits.

Stove Fan:)

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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