STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

whitelightrider · 02-12-2011 3:20pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Yes the flue should be sealed, so don't use the stove due to the possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Could you take a few photos of your fireplace and flue pipe and how it goes into the chimney. Or if you don't have a camera a description.

Stove Fan:)

Hey Stove Fan,

Ill try and get photos tonight. At the minute the flexi flue is connected to the back of the stove and sealed with fire cement. The rest of the flue is simply pushed into the chimey opening and pushed about 1 meter into the chimney. We did have fireproof expanding foam sealing around the flue but the chimney cleaner knocked that out when he was cleaning it.

whitelightrider · 02-12-2011 6:02pm

Stove fan, here are 2 photos looking up the chimney showing the flexi flue going into the chimney.

Any advice would be appreciated as we've a baby due in January so I want to get this sorted.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71325704@N08/6442286261/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71325704@N08/6442281643/

JMSE · 02-12-2011 9:15pm

Reyman wrote: »

Which are you putting in JMSE - the esse 300 or the 350?
Is a chimney liner needed?

Reyman its a 350 GreenSwitch (14.7kw), different to a normal 350 SE (7kw). The greenswitch is a boiler inset, while yours is a normal non-boiler inset. Am not qualified in this stuff, but am satisfied myself that a liner isnt needed if you have a typical modern 9" clay flue-pipe which is in good condition, just have a sealed adaptor to take the 6" from the stove to the 8or9" at the chimney.

The Esse site is very good on detail, I got the details on the 300 series here

Still havent had it installed so cant comment any further

cjpm · 02-12-2011 9:47pm

Is the firebox in a Stanley Cara very small or could it take a 300mm (12 inch) long log??

How does a Boru Fiachra compare??

Noreen1 · 02-12-2011 10:18pm

Does anyone have any experience of the Mulberry Beckett?

I'm torn between the Beckett and a Stanley Erin (mainly because they're available in the locality).

In particular, I've read online that the Beckett is quite sore on fuel. On the other hand, I've also heard that the Erin has to be practically dismantled to install a new boiler.

Does anyone know whether the boiler is hard to change on the Beckett?
That could well be the deciding factor. Right now, I'm leaning towards the Beckett.

Thanks in advance.

Noreen

Stove Fan · 02-12-2011 10:48pm

whitelightrider wrote: »

Stove fan, here are 2 photos looking up the chimney showing the flexi flue going into the chimney.

Any advice would be appreciated as we've a baby due in January so I want to get this sorted.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71325704@N08/6442286261/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71325704@N08/6442281643/

Hi:) First of all congratulations with the baby:)

The flue installation is wrong and dangerous. Please remove the expanding foam as it could combust You have two options to do it safely.

Some would say fill around the pipe with plaster of paris or similar but it would crack or fall out. The safest way is these options.

Option 1

Buy a clay liner sump adapter
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/single-skin-flue.html
and cut it to the size/shape needed and seal it to the slope of the gatherer and then fit rigid pipe from it to the stove. The flexible liner should not connect to the stove it should be the rigid black enamel flue or the stainless finish.

Option two.
Build a closure plate.
Build a horizontal framework round the base of the angled part with angle iron and then cut a piece of steel sheet to the required size and screw and seal to the angle iron with self tapping screws and cut a circular hole in it for the flue pipe from the stove to pass through and any gaps sealed with fire cement.

Non of these are the best job as the base of your clay liners support are not flat but as you don't seem to be getting tar down the chimney it should work and be safe.

If your house is a bungalow I would seriously consider getting the chimney fully lined with a flexible liner. This would eradicate all the above problems, but would still need the rigid enamel flue pipe to connect to the stove and then joined to the flexible stainless liner.

Stove Fan:)

whitelightrider · 02-12-2011 11:25pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) First of all congratulations with the baby:)

The flue installation is wrong and dangerous. Please remove the expanding foam as it could combust You have two options to do it safely.

Some would say fill around the pipe with plaster of paris or similar but it would crack or fall out. The safest way is these options.

Option 1

Buy a clay liner sump adapter
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/single-skin-flue.html
and cut it to the size/shape needed and seal it to the slope of the gatherer and then fit rigid pipe from it to the stove. The flexible liner should not connect to the stove it should be the rigid black enamel flue or the stainless finish.

Option two.
Build a closure plate.
Build a horizontal framework round the base of the angled part with angle iron and then cut a piece of steel sheet to the required size and screw and seal to the angle iron with self tapping screws and cut a circular hole in it for the flue pipe from the stove to pass through and any gaps sealed with fire cement.

Non of these are the best job as the base of your clay liners support are not flat but as you don't seem to be getting tar down the chimney it should work and be safe.

If your house is a bungalow I would seriously consider getting the chimney fully lined with a flexible liner. This would eradicate all the above problems, but would still need the rigid enamel flue pipe to connect to the stove and then joined to the flexible stainless liner.

Stove Fan:)

My cousin installed it for us and the expanding foam is fireproof. But we definitely need to get someone in to install it properly as the foam has fallen out since we got the chimney cleaned. Ill check to see if there's anyone around Galway that can install the stove properly for me as theres no point in having the stove if we cant light it.

suitseir · 03-12-2011 12:15pm

I have a waterford stanley non-boiler oil stove. I have been waiting for the plumber who commissioned it some years back, to come and service it. I rang him in September and am STILL waiting for this guy to come and service it.

He is busy....so much for a recession.........and I am wondering could an "ordinary" plumber service it? I am living in Co. Galway and at this stage am desperate to have it up and running so if anybody knows of plumbers familiar with this type of work I would welcome referrals.........the flame is non-existent and it badly needs a service after the harsh winter last year I had it on day and night. I reckon the wick etc. is exhausted. Even a plumber further afield like Co. Tipp or Co. Clare......I am within easy reach of these counties too.!!!!:(

cocoman · 03-12-2011 7:01pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Unfortunately for building regulations you need 300mm clearance above the stove:( and 150mm either side of the stove, which is fine. These gaps are to allow air to circulate and stop the stove from overheating or if cast iron its at risk of cracking the stove.

If you had a deep enough hearth you could fit the stove in front of the opening:) Morso squirrel, dunsley highlander 5. Woodwarm fireview and Aarrow ecoburn 5 are possibles. The first three are very very good make.

You say its a fireplace thats open on either side? Would it be possible to raise the height of the fireplace? I would then fit a double sided stove like a woodwarm fireview range or enigma.

If you were not bothered about being double sided I would seriously consider an inset stove and seal the other side of the fireplace up.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks Stove Fan.
I have attached a couple of pics of the ope which might be helpful. I know the clearance isn't ideal but I was hoping that as the ope is open on both sides this would help with the air circulation around the stove. I was also considering getting as ecofan to circulate the hot air. Any thoughts?

Stove Fan · 03-12-2011 8:36pm

cocoman wrote: »

Thanks Stove Fan.
I have attached a couple of pics of the ope which might be helpful. I know the clearance isn't ideal but I was hoping that as the ope is open on both sides this would help with the air circulation around the stove. I was also considering getting as ecofan to circulate the hot air. Any thoughts?

Hi:) Very tight unfortunately:( If you could lower the base that would be ideal:) Seek the advice of a fireplace shop as to me it's not high enough for air circulation although the ecofan would help.

Consider a double sided stove after lowering the base. I like woodwarm stoves.

Stove Fan:)

cocoman · 03-12-2011 8:51pm

Cheers Stove Fan

Reyman · 03-12-2011 10:31pm

JMSE wrote: »

Reyman its a 350 GreenSwitch (14.7kw), different to a normal 350 SE (7kw). The greenswitch is a boiler inset, while yours is a normal non-boiler inset. Am not qualified in this stuff, but am satisfied myself that a liner isnt needed if you have a typical modern 9" clay flue-pipe which is in good condition, just have a sealed adaptor to take the 6" from the stove to the 8or9" at the chimney.

The Esse site is very good on detail, I got the details on the 300 series here

Still havent had it installed so cant comment any further

That's a pretty powerful machine! I'll be very interested to hear how you find it.

whitelightrider · 04-12-2011 11:08pm

Folks does anyone know someone in Galway that could install a stove for me. We have it installed at the minute but as stove fan pointed out its not done properly.
Many thanks,
G

Coles · 05-12-2011 11:26pm

Great thread.

Has anyone had any experience of the Henley Tolka stove? I have a friend who had it installed with the rear flue outlet but he has been very disappointed by the draw despite the chimney previously having a perfectly fine open fire. The flue all seems to be properly installed, but inside the stove it appears to me that the boiler obstructs the flue outlet too much.

Are these stoves actually suited to the rear outlet or would it work better using the stove top outlet?

Many thanks for any insights anyone has on these particular stoves.

daiboc · 06-12-2011 5:31pm

hi all, I am looking for some information on boiler stoves. I currently have back boiler but was thinking of changing to boiler stove but have had many mixed reviews, ive been told i need a 20 kw stove which is pretty large, I was talking to plumber today he currently has large but says he is taking it out because it uses buckets of coal and even he lights fire at 5 in evening the rads only get luke warm around 9. so im in two minds now any advice appreciated.

Daiboc.

Stove Fan · 06-12-2011 5:54pm

daiboc wrote: »

hi all, I am looking for some information on boiler stoves. I currently have back boiler but was thinking of changing to boiler stove but have had many mixed reviews, ive been told i need a 20 kw stove which is pretty large, I was talking to plumber today he currently has large but says he is taking it out because it uses buckets of coal and even he lights fire at 5 in evening the rads only get luke warm around 9. so im in two minds now any advice appreciated.

Daiboc.

We only use our boiler stove to heat our rads and have no other boiler for backup. It heats the rads superbly and gets them very hot in around 1-1.5 hours but starts heating them after around 30 minutes of lighting the fire.

We have 5 rads and hot water from the stove. We have it lit for 7 months of the year and last winter burnt 45 40kg bags of coal. lit generally for 13 hours most days.

It sounds like the plumber hasn't sized the back boiler to the radiator load of the heating requirements so the rads never get that hot as the boiler is undersized:(.

If you measure your rad sizes and say if they are single or double rads I can give you a very rough quide to the boiler stove size you need.

What size is the room where the stove is going and its insulation levels?

You can't just install any big stove as it has to be sized to the heating load and room heating requirements.

Another thing is totally ignore the stove manufacturers that quote the number of rads as rads come in all sizes and outputs.

Stove Fan:)

daiboc · 07-12-2011 9:13pm

Hi stove fan

Thanks for your reply. I have 5 double rads at 6'6" and 5 single rads at 4'
and 2 single at 5' so i think this would need a big boiler. i suppose you could take 1 double off as this is in room where stove will be.thanks
Daiboc.

niallo32 · 07-12-2011 9:36pm

I have a Stanley Erin boiler stove.

I open the main valve all the way for the first ten minutes or so when lighting it then close it all the way to zero on the main valve.

It still seems to burn really fast - where is the secondary valve I can close as ideally I just want this burning slowly in the background as I also have gas..

jeje7355 · 07-12-2011 9:47pm

Hi all

Great thread but am a bit boggled:eek: Looking for a multifuel stove to fit below
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GetAttachment.aspx?tnail=0&messageId=e611ab5c-2008-11e1-b294-001e0bcba7b0&Aux=54|0|8CE822CCE5B23F0||0|0|0|0||&maxwidth=220&maxheight=160&size=Att

Dimensions of ope are 440w x 440D x 445H

6 year old house with an 8" clay flue. It needs to heat at least a room 7.2m x 6m. There is great heat from an open fire here and was looking at Tripp 4 as easiest option and no re-lining of chimney needed but I'm not sure. Budget is small!

Thanks for any advice you can give

Stove Fan · 08-12-2011 12:07am

daiboc wrote: »

Hi stove fan

Thanks for your reply. I have 5 double rads at 6'6" and 5 single rads at 4'
and 2 single at 5' so i think this would need a big boiler. i suppose you could take 1 double off as this is in room where stove will be.thanks
Daiboc.

Hi:) I have took one large double off for the room with the stove.

On my very rough calculations using rads that are 600mm in height you need 23.9 kw to heat the rads plus 3 kw to heat the hot water cylinder.

This is a very big stove with a combined boiler and room output of 28.5kw, which with the size of your rads is needed:)

The only real candidate is the aarrow stratford TF90B
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/stratford-tf90b-boiler-stove.html

This produces 24kw to water and 4.5 kw to the room with the stove.

This is the largest boiler stove I know.

If the heating system is zoned it could have a less powerful boiler stove and only heat the zone thats needed and not heat all the rads at the same time.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 08-12-2011 12:53am

jeje7355 wrote: »

Hi all

Great thread but am a bit boggled:eek: Looking for a multifuel stove to fit below

Dimensions of ope are 440w x 440D x 445H

6 year old house with an 8" clay flue. It needs to heat at least a room 7.2m x 6m. There is great heat from an open fire here and was looking at Tripp 4 as easiest option and no re-lining of chimney needed but I'm not sure. Budget is small!

Thanks for any advice you can give

Hi:) For your room size I would look for a 6-7kw stove. I had a look at the TR4 and the opening height it needs 525mm:( I would raise the opening. Most of the inset stoves need around this height. There may be a less tall one somewhere. I definately think a 4kw stove is too small unless you have a really super insulated room.

If you could double your budget buy a woodwarm fireview 6.5

http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/65kwinsetfireview.ashx

Here is one burning:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCMmV4vszEs

If I was fitting an insert stove in my house it would be one of these:D.

Unfortunately you do get what you pay for:( But a cheaper stove may suit for now if thats all the budget will allow.

Stove Fan:)

jeje7355 · 08-12-2011 11:23am

Thanks Stove Fan.

We are now wondering would an ordinary stove be better here rather than an insert. i.e. would we get more heat from it. We would have to put a bend in the stove flue to connect to the chimney flue. How easy/difficult is it to clean the chimney with a 90 degree bend pipe? Are there any ones you think would suit our room?

Stove Fan · 08-12-2011 1:49pm

jeje7355 wrote: »

Thanks Stove Fan. We are now wondering would an ordinary stove be better here rather than an insert. i.e. would we get more heat from it. We would have to put a bend in the stove flue to connect to the chimney flue. How easy/difficult is it to clean the chimney with a 90 degree bend pipe? Are there any ones you think would suit our room?

An inset stove can be just as good as a freestanding stove so long as the installer has backfilled with vermiculite/sand cement mix. This stops any heat escaping up the chimney.

Woodwarm produces great quality stoves and you wouldn't have any problems with lack of heat.

90 degree bends should be avoided. Better to use 45 degree bends.

The main advantage with an insert is it minimises the install. Smoke test, Just slide it in, bolt down, backfill, air vent, co alarm, job done. The lintel would need to be raised in your case but an installer could do everything in a day:)

Other budget stoves are villager or hunter stoves. We have a villager. It does it's job great but next time it's a woodwarm:) The difference between our villager and the same output woodwarm is £300 on the woodwarm you get a better quality made/ materials. Very controllable so uses less fuel as the better stove doesn't leak in air when you close it down so burns slower.

The premium brands are clearview, woodwarm, morso, charnwood.

Stove Fan:)

torres3011 · 08-12-2011 3:56pm

Hi Stovefan,

I am thinking about a charnwood LA50IB for my place.

There are 8 rads in total.We have 2 newish double 1200 X 500mm rads, and the rest are older single 1000 x 500mm rads of which there are 5 plus the small 600 x 500 mm one in the bathroom.

I've read your opinions and you know your stuff so was wondering if you could do a bit of maths for me and work out if that one would suit our needs please?

The room that it is in is approx 14ft x 16ft. The house is older cavity block and the insulation is poor in general. Budget is about 1,500 Euro.

Herselfs auldfella is a plumber so he can do the install for us.

Thanks.

rayquinn1 · 08-12-2011 4:54pm

Hi Stovefan,

I recently installed a Clearview 750 boiler stove replacing an open fire. The flue is joined into the original clay chimney liner.
It is a double door stove and when you open the left door it is fine and no smoke comes out but when you open the right door as well a belch of smoke comes out. Not every time - depends on how the fire is burning when it is opened.
Would this have anything to do with the chimney not being lined or insulated?

Stove Fan · 08-12-2011 6:23pm

torres3011 wrote: »

Hi Stovefan,

I am thinking about a charnwood LA50IB for my place.

There are 8 rads in total.We have 2 newish double 1200 X 500mm rads, and the rest are older single 1000 x 500mm rads of which there are 5 plus the small 600 x 500 mm one in the bathroom.

I've read your opinions and you know your stuff so was wondering if you could do a bit of maths for me and work out if that one would suit our needs please?

The room that it is in is approx 14ft x 16ft. The house is older cavity block and the insulation is poor in general. Budget is about 1,500 Euro.

Herselfs auldfella is a plumber so he can do the install for us.

Thanks.

Hi:) I have worked out you need a 11.8kw back boiler stove and around 3.8kw to the room.
If one of the 8 rads is one of the ones in the living room then the stove will be fine to heat the house although at it's max rated boiler output:D. The room output is 2.2 kilowat so if no rad in living room a small 1kw would be wise to plumb in.
With the odd thermostatic radiator valves fitted it will be fine:) It's better to burn a stove hard than to slumber. Less flue deposits and more efficient.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 08-12-2011 6:36pm

rayquinn1 wrote: »

Hi Stovefan,

I recently installed a Clearview 750 boiler stove replacing an open fire. The flue is joined into the original clay chimney liner.
It is a double door stove and when you open the left door it is fine and no smoke comes out but when you open the right door as well a belch of smoke comes out. Not every time - depends on how the fire is burning when it is opened.
Would this have anything to do with the chimney not being lined or insulated?

Hi:) Yes, it could be to do with the chimney but to me at a guess there may be a lack of ventilation.

Have you an air vent installed in the same room with a free area of 5,550mm sq? Or 8.52501 in² You should have. The vent should have the free are written on either in sq mm or sq inches.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove-ventilation.html

See this section also for smoking stove issues.

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/smoking-fireplace-stove.html

Please also install a carbon monoxide detector in the same room as the stove.

Stove Fan:)

daiboc · 08-12-2011 8:55pm

Hi stove fan thanks for all your info.:D the size of a stove you reckon i would need, id imagine would burn an awful lot of fuel.
Daiboc

Stove Fan · 08-12-2011 10:25pm

daiboc wrote: »

Hi stove fan thanks for all your info.:D the size of a stove you reckon i would need, id imagine would burn an awful lot of fuel.
Daiboc

Yep:eek: If you used it like we use our stove and burned for 13hours a day in the coldest months for 7 months I think you could get through anywhere between 80-120, 40kg bags of coal but it really depends on how many hours a day the fire is burning and how warm you like it.

We use ours a lot even if it's slightly chilly or even if it's a miserable rainy day as it's nice to look at. We used 45 40kg bags over 7 months last winter. My folks have even had it lit when it's 18 degrees inside as they like a very warm house:eek: People have often said ours is the warmest house!!

Stove Fan:)

daiboc · 08-12-2011 10:38pm

thats a lot of coal i think ill be sticking to back boiler and oil:mad:

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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