STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Surfn

Stove Fan, more advice here place, you deserve a few beers for all this info, i finally got the plumber to call at the house yesterday to make sure it wasnt going to be a big job to put in a boiler stove. i asked him about the flexi flu liner and he said no just to let it go into the 9 inch clay flu pipes. im abit wary on this. should i use this flexi flu or not, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using it and not using it. thanks in advance

Stove Fan

creedp wrote: »

Thanks Stovefan


That's the issue, Im not totally concerned with the look and consider the Clearview an efficient stove thats also a nice stove. However, the Charnwood Island II is considerd a better looking stove and the retailer made a big sales pitch about the grate which can be adjusted from wood to multi-fuel with a simple lever and also this allows any ash to fall into an ash pan which can be simply removed for disposal of ash without opening the stove. This was a real selling point.

My big Q again is which of the 2 stoves is more airtight/sealed to the room. Also how does the Island II compare to the country 8, the latter seems to be a littled bit more efficient at around 80% compared to the Island II at 78% - I know what's the difference!!

On the lining issue I've almost given up arguing. I would install and the quoted cost for the materials including all clamps/backfill is approx €500. Then of course there is the fitting- that quote offerred a full fitting services for another €400 whereas the builder said he would just fit the stove for no extra cost - he is not too enthuastic about the flexible flue. However, he is the guy that put a 45deg bend in the flue about 0.5m above flue end and insisted anyone who argued a straight flue was better simply didn't know what they were talking about!

The grate and air controls on the island is a superb design. The country 8 is charnwoods more lower priced stove and so does let air in. The two stoves are very airtight but I have to say if I was buying I would choose the Island especially if burning coal. The island and cove are there more premium and higher quality range. I think although clearview are multifuel I think they are more suited to burning wood.

A stove installer on a forum I go on has his own buisiness in the UK has a island stove and he really rates it:)

See a discussion on Clearview and Charnwood.
http://www.thegreenlivingforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=104946

I would have a seperate person in to install the liner and stove.

I can't believe in this day and age that the old wives tale is still doing the rounds with regards bends in flues:rolleyes:

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan

Surfn wrote: »

Stove Fan, more advice here place, you deserve a few beers for all this info, i finally got the plumber to call at the house yesterday to make sure it wasnt going to be a big job to put in a boiler stove. i asked him about the flexi flu liner and he said no just to let it go into the 9 inch clay flu pipes. im abit wary on this. should i use this flexi flu or not, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using it and not using it. thanks in advance

Hi:) There are no disadvantages in using a flexi liner apart from the cost.

Advantages:

Better draw as the clay chimney doesn't absorb the heat.
Liner keeps the chimney warm and stops condensation in the flue.
No risk of tar and condensation leaking out at the clay adapter.
very easy to sweep as the flue is all one size.
How do you sweep through a 6 inch flue to an 8 inch clay flue to clean the chimney well.
Extra fire protection should the worst happen.

Disadvantages:

Cost of liner and fitting.

The fitter just probably didn't want to go on the roof to install the liner.


Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan

LovelyHurlin wrote: »

Great thread, which I have gleaned tons of information off...so to start off, thanks to everyone!

I am in the middle of researching which stove to get. I am looking for:
- Non-boiler, multifuel stove, around 8-9kw output, traditional enough design. The room is a 50 sq metre open plan kitchen/dining/living area. It's a new extension that is well insulated. Ceilings averaging about 2.5metres.

I have spoken to alot of different stove suppliers. The problem with alot of thes suppliers, I found, is that they act as agents to particular brands so their advice isn't exactly impartial!

To cut to the chase, I have gotten prices for the following models, all coming in at around €1250 delivered (not including flu or fitting).

Nestor Martin Harmony I
Stanford 80
Charnwood Country 8
Stovax Stockton 8

Any advice on the pros/cons for these models? I have checked whatstove.co.uk, but I was hoping for some first hand experience that anyone might have

I know some of these models are cast iron and some are steel, does this make a big difference durability/quality?

Thanks in advance,

LH.

Hi:) The first two makes I dont know anything about:( The charnwood and stovax are good makes and both made of steel with cast components
. You would be happy enough with both but myself I have to say I like the look of the stovax stockton. I do think the country would be a more hard wearing stove but not as good airwash and as airtight as the stockton.
Either cast iron or steel is just as good so long they are both good quality stoves.
View them if you haven't already and see which you prefer.

Stove Fan:)

goat2

Stove Fan wrote: »

Could you give me the measurements of the rads please:)

The room size where the stove is to be installed? Insulation levels?

On the stove purchase costs what is your budget?

Has it got to fit inside a certain opening?

Stove Fan:)

it will sit in front of the fire,
there will be one six foot single radiator, tow very small double radiators, and a double four foot radiator. i am hoping to cover the lot along with the person fitting at about two thousand,

Stove Fan

goat2 wrote: »

it will sit in front of the fire,
there will be one six foot single radiator, tow very small double radiators, and a double four foot radiator. i am hoping to cover the lot along with the person fitting at about two thousand,

Hi:) I have used these sizes of rads:


1x 600mm x 2000 single.
2x 600mm x 600 double.
1x 600mm x 1200 double.
total rad output 6.5Kw
Plus hot water +3.0Kw
Total =9.5kw


If your radiators are a bit smaller you could buy a stove with an 8kw boiler.

The following are possibles keeping the price of the stove low, but please check the rad sizes and if smaller most of these will be suitable.



Aarrow ecoboiler EB9HE. 9Kw to water.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb9-he.html

Hunter herald 8b (wraparound boiler) 8.5kw max to water.
http://www.hunterstoves.co.uk/Stoves/Herald8heating.html

Broseley hercules 12B. 8kw to water.
http://www.broseleyfires.com/Multifuel-Stoves/Hercules-12B_Boiler-Stove.html

Yeoman devon 50HB. 8.2kw to water.
http://yeoman-stoves.co.uk/html/devon50-hb.html

The ecoboiler would be my favourite and then the yeoman for room heat if it's a nice sized room.

Stove Fan:)

Nermal

Hi Stovefan! The largest room in my house is a combined kitchen/dining room. Unfortunately there's no expanse of wall suitable for putting a radiator on.

There is however an open fireplace, that I've ripped everything out of so it's literally just a hole now. There's a gas available next to it. My plan was to get a gas stove installed there. So the stove would be the only source of heat for that room. I've figured out I need 3.5kW.

However I've been told that they're not suitable for constant use - if run constantly they'll break down or require replacement much sooner. I won't be running them constantly though - the room is insulated, and will probably only require heating three months of the year for two/three hours a day. Will this level of usage be a problem or am I worrying too much here?

Surfn

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) There are no disadvantages in using a flexi liner apart from the cost.

Advantages:

Better draw as the clay chimney doesn't absorb the heat.
Liner keeps the chimney warm and stops condensation in the flue.
No risk of tar and condensation leaking out at the clay adapter.
very easy to sweep as the flue is all one size.
How do you sweep through a 6 inch flue to an 8 inch clay flue to clean the chimney well.
Extra fire protection should the worst happen.

Disadvantages:

Cost of liner and fitting.

The fitter just probably didn't want to go on the roof to install the liner.


Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan, cheers for that, ya only do this job 1s or 1s in a pretty longtime and want to do it right. i will have the flexi flu liner in myself and have it in for when he comes to fit the stove. the old oil flexi flu has to come out anyhow. im hoping the 316 grade will be ok becuase the 904 is pretty expensive. also this will be for a stovax stockton 14hb, mainly burning sticks and small bit of coal.
just abit of topic of the flexi flu liner, whats your thoughts on a charnwood country 16b, we have only about 10 rads now, i know the stockton 14hb can heat up to 19, my reasons for this stove was to maybe change the rads to doubles in the future, i think im just gonna have to go and look at the 2 stoves and see them in the flesh. to look at and for quality which would you prefer Stove Fan.
cheers

Stove Fan

Surfn wrote: »

Stove Fan, cheers for that, ya only do this job 1s or 1s in a pretty longtime and want to do it right. i will have the flexi flu liner in myself and have it in for when he comes to fit the stove. the old oil flexi flu has to come out anyhow. im hoping the 316 grade will be ok becuase the 904 is pretty expensive. also this will be for a stovax stockton 14hb, mainly burning sticks and small bit of coal.
just abit of topic of the flexi flu liner, whats your thoughts on a charnwood country 16b, we have only about 10 rads now, i know the stockton 14hb can heat up to 19, my reasons for this stove was to maybe change the rads to doubles in the future, i think im just gonna have to go and look at the 2 stoves and see them in the flesh. to look at and for quality which would you prefer Stove Fan.
cheers

The liner will last about 10 years in 316 if not using too much coal.
Most would reccommend a 904 grade liner with a boiler stove, very hard use being used more.

The charnwood country 16b is a fine stove but for serious boiler power the stockton 14HB wins. The stockton has a 3kw bigger boiler. Enough to heat 2 more 600mm x 800 double radiators.

The number of rads quoted will be for single radiators and not doubles.

If the boiler power isn't that important both will do the same job. See which one you prefer as you say.


Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan

Nermal wrote: »

Hi Stovefan! The largest room in my house is a combined kitchen/dining room. Unfortunately there's no expanse of wall suitable for putting a radiator on.

There is however an open fireplace, that I've ripped everything out of so it's literally just a hole now. There's a gas available next to it. My plan was to get a gas stove installed there. So the stove would be the only source of heat for that room. I've figured out I need 3.5kW.

However I've been told that they're not suitable for constant use - if run constantly they'll break down or require replacement much sooner. I won't be running them constantly though - the room is insulated, and will probably only require heating three months of the year for two/three hours a day. Will this level of usage be a problem or am I worrying too much here?

Hi:) I have never heard about them being unreliable and dont really see why they would. I dont think you will have any problems with any usage really.

Stove Fan:)

Jeff Woods

Macano31 wrote: »

Hi
Anyone have experience with the Blacksmith stoves. I am thinking of installing the Blacksmith Forge. They seem to be built to German specifications Any advice appreciated?
Thanks

Blacksmith stoves are reliable but are made in China, not Germany, they appear to be made of the same construction as the Horseflame brand stoves but the Horseflame seems better price but fewer shops sell it?

goat2

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) I have used these sizes of rads:


1x 600mm x 2000 single.
2x 600mm x 600 double.
1x 600mm x 1200 double.
total rad output 6.5Kw
Plus hot water +3.0Kw
Total =9.5kw


If your radiators are a bit smaller you could buy a stove with an 8kw boiler.

The following are possibles keeping the price of the stove low, but please check the rad sizes and if smaller most of these will be suitable.



Aarrow ecoboiler EB9HE. 9Kw to water.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb9-he.html

Hunter herald 8b (wraparound boiler) 8.5kw max to water.
http://www.hunterstoves.co.uk/Stoves/Herald8heating.html

Broseley hercules 12B. 8kw to water.
http://www.broseleyfires.com/Multifuel-Stoves/Hercules-12B_Boiler-Stove.html

Yeoman devon 50HB. 8.2kw to water.
http://yeoman-stoves.co.uk/html/devon50-hb.html

The ecoboiler would be my favourite and then the yeoman for room heat if it's a nice sized room.

Stove Fan:)

can it cause problems if i were one double radiator short,
what is the dimensions of the smallest double radiator on the market, as i would be looking for two as the places is small, and i am looking at one 600mm single and one 600mm double radiator

Stove Fan

goat2 wrote: »

can it cause problems if i were one double radiator short,
what is the dimensions of the smallest double radiator on the market, as i would be looking for two as the places is small, and i am looking at one 600mm single and one 600mm double radiator

Fitting the 2 rads above would decrease the rad temperature but would still heat them up but not as hot.

A 600mm x 600mm double is around 1kw and the single about 500watts.

The smallest double would be a 500mm by 400 double.

If you are having more rads on the system than the boiler can fully heat to hot, fit thermostatic radiator valves on rooms that don't need to be as hot, but don't fit trv's on all the radiators.

I fit trv's on kitchen radiator because of cooking and also the bedrooms. (I like cooler bedrooms)The trv's would close off the heat to the set temperature and put the heat to where it's needed.

Another option would be to zone the solid fuel system by having the downstairs on a zone and the upstairs on another.

This is providing the hot water cylinder is heated by gravity circulation and has it's own heat leak radiator too.

Our boiler on our villager berkley boiler stove is rated at 7.6kw and it's heating 10kw of rads and water no problem even just burning wood. We have 5 rads a towel rail and heat the water too. 4 of the rads have trv's but most are on 3 or on full. It's not a zoned system.

Stove Fan:)

joec1

Stovefan,
If I could get some advice please regarding which stove to buy.
I have figured out that I need around 6kw and no more to the room and much as possible to the boiler (need to heat about 13 rads). I have been researching the henley blasket, mulbery beckett, charnwood 16b, olymberl aidan.
I know the charnwood is a good bit more expensive than the rest, but I have a feeling that is because it is better built. Is this true, and what would you recommed that I go for. Maybe you could suggest something different. Some guys in the shops say things like "the henley is too new and we are wary" or "the mulbery is crap and we have people bringing in worn out parts".
I find it difficult to get impartial advice,

Any thoughts on this would be very much appreciated, as we are ready to make the plunge in the next week or so.

Surfn

i was looking at stoves yesterday in a showroom, it was my first time to see the charnwood country 16b in the flesh, im not keen on the look of it, the island 3b now is a lovely looking stove, very keen on that also the stove that i like the stovax stockton 14hb is a great looking stove. i also wanted to see a clearview 750 but they hadnt got 1 of them. the clearview 750 has a hotplate on it, has any1 got 1 of these stoves because id like to know if you could boil a kettle on it or say cook a pot of spuds on it

Stove Fan

Surfn wrote: »

i was looking at stoves yesterday in a showroom, it was my first time to see the charnwood country 16b in the flesh, im not keen on the look of it, the island 3b now is a lovely looking stove, very keen on that also the stove that i like the stovax stockton 14hb is a great looking stove. i also wanted to see a clearview 750 but they hadnt got 1 of them. the clearview 750 has a hotplate on it, has any1 got 1 of these stoves because id like to know if you could boil a kettle on it or say cook a pot of spuds on it

Hi:) The charnwood 3b is a superb stove and is a way better stove than the country models. The island 3b is quite expensive though. Was the hotplate a boiler model though on the clearview? The good thing with clearview and woodwarm stoves is the large boilers can be fitted after and so if a leak develops years after you can just replace the boiler and not have to buy a new stove:).
Another stove that is great is; http://www.dunsleyheat.co.uk/yorkshirestoveCH.htm
see www.whatstove.co.uk for reviews on the dunsley yorkshire.

Woodwarm apparently were formed from clearview employees and make great stoves.
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/


Stove Fan:)

maringo

Have just got a stove Olymberyl fitted and notice only about 60mm space above the stobe between it and the chimney bottom which I think is concrete lintel - is this safe? The stove has a boiler and we have plumber who fitted it coming back tomorrow. I'm a bit worried having just read previous threads that 6 inches should be left between top of stove and bottom of chimney breast. It has a stainless flue fitted would appreciate any advice that you have stovefan.

Stove Fan

maringo wrote: »

Have just got a stove Olymberyl fitted and notice only about 60mm space above the stobe between it and the chimney bottom which I think is concrete lintel - is this safe? The stove has a boiler and we have plumber who fitted it coming back tomorrow. I'm a bit worried having just read previous threads that 6 inches should be left between top of stove and bottom of chimney breast. It has a stainless flue fitted would appreciate any advice that you have stovefan.

Hi 300mm clearance above the stove and 150mm either side is the building regulation minimum for a stove inside an opening in the UK. If the heat can't escape it may crack a cast iron stove.

I would have the lintel raised or if the hearth is deep enough bring the stove forward so at least most of it forward from the lintel. Still has to have 300mm depth of hearth in front of the stove.

Stove Fan:)

maringo

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi 300mm clearance above the stove and 150mm either side is the building regulation minimum for a stove inside an opening in the UK. If the heat can't escape it may crack a cast iron stove.

I would have the lintel raised or if the hearth is deep enough bring the stove forward so at least most of it forward from the lintel. Still has to have 300mm depth of hearth in front of the stove.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks a million for that information Stovefan - will have it brought forward some to keep a 300 mm hearth in front of the stove. You are a mine of information

MightyMunster

Hi,
Looking for some advice on inset stoves.
Have a width of around 670mm and looked at a Tripp TR8C (€1500), a Bodart & Gonay Infire 683 (€2500), and a Wanders Square 68 (€2000).
Besides the additional fans and thermostat on the Bodart & Gonay would there be much of a quality difference between these or are there any better alternatives?
We want a minimalist inset style with maximum glass on the front.

Also the budget isn't huge, hoping for a total installed price of around €2000 as minimal work is required on the fireplace.

Would be grateful for any tips as its all new to me!

Thanks

guinness queen

hi Stove Fan,
I am back again, I looked at my dovre and found it is 8Kw, which you suggest is far too big for my room 19 x 15 x 8ft. I believe a 6Kw will be just fine, No boiler required, I realise that my 18" heats my room ok, but it takes a great deal of fuel, and more imprtant I hate to light it and then go out, because of the danger of fire.
Could you again give me a list of good cast iron (not chinese) that you consider good. I believe there is a long waiting list for some stoves, it this true.? You are a very patient person, giving invaluable advice to all, and it is much appreciated. Cheers

Stove Fan

guinness queen wrote: »

hi Stove Fan,
I am back again, I looked at my dovre and found it is 8Kw, which you suggest is far too big for my room 19 x 15 x 8ft. I believe a 6Kw will be just fine, No boiler required, I realise that my 18" heats my room ok, but it takes a great deal of fuel, and more imprtant I hate to light it and then go out, because of the danger of fire.
Could you again give me a list of good cast iron (not chinese) that you consider good. I believe there is a long waiting list for some stoves, it this true.? You are a very patient person, giving invaluable advice to all, and it is much appreciated. Cheers

Hi thanks:) Some stoves do have a long waiting list due to being popular!! I don't know of many cast iron stoves I could reccommend or are familiar with but morso is a great brand. Look at the 6kw Badger and Owl models.
I'm sure others will advice on other cast iron stoves. Does it have to be cast iron? There is a lot more choice in steel stoves. Like a clearview vision 500!
http://www.clearviewstoves.com/vision500.htm

Stove Fan:)

Febe9

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) From a rough calculaton of your 8 rads I calculated 13kw for a boiler stove or 45,000btu and 3.5-4kw output to the room.

I prefer steel but both have their merits. It's normal to heat the water by the stove or a seperate immersion heater. You may be able to seperate the rad and water heating from the stove depending on the stoves controls but there really wouldn't be much point as the stove has to be lit anyway. If you just want hot water light a very small fire.

Stove Fan:)

Hi, After looking at many different stoves I was struck by the grate size you would have to fill with fuel to get the optimum heat. This has led me to opt for the Stratford EB12 rather than the Hunter 14B. Before doing so I would gratefully appreciate any opinions or experience any of you may have on these stoves. Hoping the Stratford will come out tops.
Many thanks. F

mariskalisa

Hi

Could someone help me please? I would like to get a boiler stove fitted to provide hot water and to heat radiators but am unsure of what output I would need. I have asked several plumbers and they all gave me different answers from 9KW to 14KW to 28KW so I'm a bit confused.

The measurements of my rads are as follows: 2 doubles 1700mm x 500mm, 1 double 2400mm x 600mm, 1 double 1300mm x 700mm, 1 single 2000mm x 600mm, 1 single 950mm x 700mm, 2 singles 1700mm x 500mm and 1 single 1450mm x 500mm.

Any feedback would be really helpful

Mari

heinbloed

Mariskalisa asks:

Could someone help me please? I would like to get a boiler stove fitted to provide hot water and to heat radiators but am unsure of what output I would need. I have asked several plumbers and they all gave me different answers from 9KW to 14KW to 28KW so I'm a bit confused.

Well, the thermal energy demand of the house - or it's rooms - is decisive, not the size of the radiators which are present.
Stay away from sellers and installers who do not point this out, these are cowboys.

Rob_talisman

Well ive finally received all my parts for the stove, turned into a bit of a mess..

My next stage was to get the chimney lined. But ive just been speaking to someone about doing this and i think im getting mixed advise.

I currenly have a gas fire in the room which is connected to a 6" steel flue liner already. i was under the impression id have to remove it and fit a new one, but ive now been told there is no need when i have a steel liner there already and its drawing nicely...

so confused. obviously if i didnt need to change it it would save a lot of messing about let alone the expense.

any advise?

paul127

Hey There,I need a Boru Carraig Mor Double Double,back boiler with External air ASAP i.e Before Christmas - all the suppliers I rang are telling me it'll be Jan..... I can get one but the problem is the external air kit which needs to be installed in the factory .... Any idea's for me so I can get this sorted before Xmas or do you know of any other options for a double sided back bolier stove's ? Thanks

ravendude

Hi there,

I'm considering installing a stove to heat a reasonably size-able open plan area in an existing house (approx 16 years old).
The area is approx 60sq metres. It comprises a kitchen area, dining area and sun-room (used as a living room). This open plan area is where we spend most of our time in the house. Each of the 3 areas is approx 20sq metres of the overall 60sq metres, and the sunroom has vaulted ceilings.

We're looking at a circa 9KW solution.

We would be after a very contemporary looking stove to fit in with the overall style of the area.

We have 2 options:
1/ Convert an existing fire place in the dining area to an inset one.
2/ Block off the existing fireplace (maybe just with a chimney balloon), and install a new free standing stove into the sunroom area.

I've looked into number 1 and it looks like it could get very pricey, - ie. with flue lining, widening of fire opening, installation, removal of existing surround etc. I think you're looking at 1500euro minimum in installation work, at a conservative estimate.

I've just thought of number 2 (new free standing stove in the sunroom) as another option.
This would involve bringing a flue up and out of the sun-room. Actually it would probably need to exit at the top of the wall rather than the roof, - because there are decorative wooden beams on the roof. There are also quite a few windows in the sunroom which isn't ideal, - but, it is a very pleasant room in which we spend a lot of time.
We'd actually prefer this (option number 2) as we would get more enjoyment of the stove because it would be where we watch TV etc. and could act somewhat as a focal point.

I'm just wondering, - is the installation of such a free standing stove (obviously flue is required) generally more or less costly than converting an existing fireplace?
Are there any important factors to consider?

Thanks in advance!

(PS, this thread has already been most helpful)

Vince1974

Great informative thread!

I am in the process of changing from an open fire with a lovely draught of air into the chimney at all times to a stove. Since we're redesigning the room into quite a modern style a contemporary look for the insert stove would be required. The output needed is around 5kw and I want it to be a multifuel stove.

Now most of the inserts with a contemporary sleek look are seriously pricey compared to more traditional looking ones.

Any tips on where to look/buy?

The current favourite is the Stovax Riva 40.

JMSE

There are two Irish manufacturers that I've found, Borustoves in Tipperary and Inis stoves in Galway. Boru do a good range including insert boiler stoves which I'm interested in, Inis have a lovely range of non-insert boiler stoves and their website is much better than Boru's, but they dont do an insert stove.