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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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    #4562
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    johnmck wrote: »
    Tell me, what's conspiracy about me saying that there will be lockdowns and curfews in September ? Lockdowns have happened before and Newstalk leaked curfews , so where is the conspiracy. You seem to want something more, like you are lakogk something. But I don't think you'll find it here

    What will be logic for lock downs given where we will be with the vaccination programme in September?

    Also your mention of curfews. No link to back up this point. Why did you think they will be introduced given that we had no curfews since this event started in march 2020?


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    #4563
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    johnmck wrote: »
    Tell me, what's conspiracy about me saying that there will be lockdowns and curfews in September ? Lockdowns have happened before and Newstalk leaked curfews , so where is the conspiracy. You seem to want something more, like you are lakogk something. But I don't think you'll find it here

    Curfews happen for a reason. At present there are absolutely no plans for curfew in September. That wouldn't make any sense because the virus is decreasing, vaccinations are increasing rapidly, and by September the situation should be vastly improved.

    Explain, using logic, why there will be a curfew in September

    (You half hearing some radio conversation for which you have no context for is not evidence of anything)


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    #4564
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    johnmck wrote: »
    Tell me, what's conspiracy about me saying that there will be lockdowns and curfews in September ? Lockdowns have happened before and Newstalk leaked curfews , so where is the conspiracy. You seem to want something more, like you are lakogk something. But I don't think you'll find it here

    What curfews happened before in Ireland?

    We’re still waiting on your Newstalk link. Funny that no other outlet picked up on this incredible news.


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    #4565
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,429 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    johnmck wrote: »
    Tell me, what's conspiracy about me saying that there will be lockdowns and curfews in September ? Lockdowns have happened before and Newstalk leaked curfews , so where is the conspiracy. You seem to want something more, like you are lakogk something. But I don't think you'll find it here

    Why would curfews be put in place when they haven't been in place before?


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    #4566
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    What curfews happened before in Ireland?

    We’re still waiting on your Newstalk link. Funny that no other outlet picked up on this incredible news.

    Conspiracy theorists are amazing. They eschew the so called MSM but yet seem to pick up on every word. The conspiracy community seem to be particularly big Claire Byrne fans. :pac:


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    #4567
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    johnmck wrote: »
    Tell me, what's conspiracy about me saying that there will be lockdowns and curfews in September ? Lockdowns have happened before and Newstalk leaked curfews , so where is the conspiracy. You seem to want something more, like you are lakogk something. But I don't think you'll find it here

    You're asking where's the conspiracy in what you're saying?

    If there is no visible reason for a curfew (or lockdowns) in September,
    and lots of reasons to think by September things will be much better due to vaccination,
    then what you're saying comes across as just some imagined fear, and without any justification!

    I think you may be sincere, but I also think you are very likely to be completely wrong,
    and worrying about things that will never happen.


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    #4568
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    johnmck wrote: »
    Tell me, what's conspiracy about me saying that there will be lockdowns and curfews in September ?
    You're suggesting that they are planning to introduce a curfew in September for reasons other than to reduce the spread of the virus. You believe that this was purposefully leaked on a radio show for some reason.
    You haven't really explained what these reasons are and you seem very reluctant to do so. I suspect this is because you haven't thought very deeply on your claims, and doing so is making you realise how little there is to them.
    johnmck wrote: »
    Lockdowns have happened before and Newstalk leaked curfews , so where is the conspiracy.
    But Newstalk didn't leak anything.
    You keep claiming that they were mentioned on the show, but you can't actually provide a link to it.
    And from the vague, probably misremembered description you've alluded to, it doesn't actually sound like they said anything about any actual plans to introduce a curfew.

    Also, what curfews are you referring to? There hasn't been a curfew in Ireland due to covid.

    I suspect that you are confused about what a curfew actually is.

    So could you actually answer my question now?
    Do you believe that this curfew is going to be permanent? Yes or no?

    Also, I notice that you seem to be changing your claim a bit now. You're saying that there will be lockdowns and a curfew in September.
    I suspect that this is an attempt for you to hedge your bets. If a lockdown occurs, but no curfew, I think you will use this as an excuse to claim you were still right.


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    #4569
    johnmck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 415 ✭✭johnmck


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    What will be logic for lock downs given where we will be with the vaccination programme in September?

    Also your mention of curfews. No link to back up this point. Why did you think they will be introduced given that we had no curfews since this event started in march 2020?

    Japan locked down last week, one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world.

    The word I mis-typed on the last post was lacking.
    Damn it I'm going to dig that radio clip up tomorrow for you


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    #4570
    Trigger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,538 ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    johnmck wrote: »
    Japan locked down last week, one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world.

    The word I mis-typed on the last post was lacking.
    Damn it I'm going to dig that radio clip up tomorrow for you

    Well that's just incorrect, in fact they are one of the lowest in the developed world. Currently they have administrated one dose to approx just 2.2% of their population.

    EDIT: Source here : https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/05/07/tens-of-millions-of-unused-covid-vaccine-doses-are-reportedly-piling-up-in-japan-as-it-witnesses-a-surge-in-cases/


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    #4571
    smiddyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭smiddyboy


    johnmck wrote: »
    Japan locked down last week, one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world.

    Where did you pull that statistic from??
    Japan has given less than 3% of it's population a single dose of the covid vaccine!

    It is singularly the slowest rollout of any wealthy country.


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    #4572
    johnmck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 415 ✭✭johnmck


    King Mob wrote: »
    You're suggesting that they are planning to introduce a curfew in September for reasons other than to reduce the spread of the virus. You believe that this was purposefully leaked on a radio show for some reason.
    You haven't really explained what these reasons are and you seem very reluctant to do so. I suspect this is because you haven't thought very deeply on your claims, and doing so is making you realise how little there is to them.


    But Newstalk didn't leak anything.
    You keep claiming that they were mentioned on the show, but you can't actually provide a link to it.
    And from the vague, probably misremembered description you've alluded to, it doesn't actually sound like they said anything about any actual plans to introduce a curfew.

    Also, what curfews are you referring to? There hasn't been a curfew in Ireland due to covid.

    I suspect that you are confused about what a curfew actually is.

    So could you actually answer my question now?
    Do you believe that this curfew is going to be permanent? Yes or no?

    Also, I notice that you seem to be changing your claim a bit now. You're saying that there will be lockdowns and a curfew in September.
    I suspect that this is an attempt for you to hedge your bets. If a lockdown occurs, but no curfew, I think you will use this as an excuse to claim you were still right.

    My theory is from what I have heard, and I'll be back on here for you to give me a good scolding if I'm wrong, is that along with a temporary lockdown a curfew will be introduced in conjunction with it in September. Why? I have no bloody idea! Psychological games being planned out by government psychological advisors


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    #4573
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    johnmck wrote: »
    My theory is from what I have heard, and I'll be back on here for you to give me a good scolding if I'm wrong, is that along with a temporary lockdown a curfew will be introduced in conjunction with it in September. Why? I have no bloody idea! Psychological games being planned out by government psychological advisors

    What psychological games? What psychological advisors?


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    #4574
    johnmck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 415 ✭✭johnmck


    smiddyboy wrote: »
    Where did you pull that statistic from??
    Japan has given less than 3% of it's population a single dose of the covid vaccine!

    It is singularly the slowest rollout of any wealthy country.

    Why did I say Japan ! I meant Chile


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    #4575
    Trigger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,538 ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    johnmck wrote: »
    Why did I say Japan ! I meant Chile

    Chile is mainly due to the vaccine that they chose to use. They University of Chile produced a paper on the effectiveness of the Sinovac vaccine that the majority of Chilians were vaccinated with. Their current Figures are approx 50% vaccinated with at least a single dose. A single dose of the Sinovac has 3% effectiveness while 2 doses is just over 50%.

    Compare that to Isreal who have approx 60% vaccinated majority of which are Pfizer who have a 94% effectiveness after 2 jabs. The Israelis are not experiencing anything in the same way as Chile are

    https://www.uchile.cl/noticias/174186/resultados-primer-estudio-de-efectividad-de-las-vacunas-en-chile

    Relevant section translated for you here:
    Vaccines against SARS-CoV2 show 56.5 percent effectiveness in preventing infections
    A study led by academics from the University of Chile also identified that a single application of the vaccine provides protection against infections of only 3 percent. In addition, in the breakdown by age, adults over 70 years would have increased their contagion by 64 percent without inoculation. The researchers affirm that it is of vital importance to redouble government efforts, both in actions, risk communication and data availability. They also explained that the analysis will be continuous, since as the vaccination process progresses, it will be necessary to monitor the new figures.

    Rector Ennio Vivaldi said that these results give us a light of hope, but we must be empathetic, take care of ourselves, wear masks, follow measures, stay at home even with the vaccine
    Rector Ennio Vivaldi said that "These results give us a light of hope, but we must be empathetic, take care of ourselves, wear masks, follow measures, stay at home even with the vaccine"

    The study led by Uchile shows that the effectiveness of the vaccines is 56.5% after 14 days after the second dose.
    The study led by Uchile shows that the effectiveness of the vaccines is 56.5% after 14 days after the second dose.

    Academician Eduardo Engel, one of the researchers in charge, delivered the main results.
    Academician Eduardo Engel, one of the researchers in charge, delivered the main results.

    The study, carried out by researchers from the University of Chile, Juan Díaz, Eduardo Engel and Alejandro Jofré , estimated the effectiveness of the ongoing vaccination process against COVID-19, a campaign that to date has allowed the inoculation of more than 7 million people, of which 4,042,671 have already received the two doses.

    The report, presented on Tuesday to the Ministry of Health, shows an effectiveness of 56.5 percent in preventing infections in those who have received the second dose of any of the vaccines at least two weeks ago. This number is calculated taking into consideration that the vaccines currently applied in Chile are Sinovac (93 percent of the second dose administered) and Pfizer BioNTech (7 percent remaining). Take into account, in addition, that the latter has shown an effectiveness of 94 percent in Israel .

    The research also concludes that the effectiveness of the Sinovac vaccine to prevent infections is approximately 54 percent in people who have already completed the process with its two doses, a value similar to the 50.4 percent reported by the Butantan Institute in the efficacy study. of this vaccine carried out in Brazil, information that was key for its approval in Chile by the Institute of Public Health (ISP).

    The researcher from the University of Chile, Eduardo Engel , specified that "the methodology we use, given the information that exists, estimates the combined effect of what has been applied by Sinovac and Pfizer, and that is 56.5 percent , and then taking the effectiveness of Pfizer in Israel, we can infer 54 percent for the Sinovac vaccine. " It is important to note that the similarity between the figures in this study and the Brazilian one is encouraging, as it suggests that the effectiveness of the Sinovac vaccine has not been affected by a possible circulation of new variants of the virus in the country , either because said circulation it is not yet massive or because the vaccine does not lose effectiveness.

    Among the results, the study also corroborates that with a single dose the protection against infections is very low, 3 percent . Hence the importance of receiving the second dose and continuing with strict care until at least two weeks after its application. The researchers emphasize that it should not be forgotten that the degree of protection against infections is 56 percent, not 100 percent , and that at the moment there is no information necessary to evaluate the effectiveness of the vaccination program to prevent hospitalizations. . "Although it is expected to be higher, information is needed to confirm that this is the case," says the academic from the University of Chile, Alejandro Jofré .


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    #4576
    smiddyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭smiddyboy


    johnmck wrote: »
    Why did I say Japan ! I meant Chile

    :D Yes, your right Chile is doing well with Vaccines....

    the only problem is that over 90% of the vaccines administered there have been the Chinese Sinovac vaccine, which up to 28 days after the first dose is only 3% effective!! Gets up to over 50% two weeks after the second dose.

    It's the same thing that happened in Brazil. People, naturally, relaxed after getting the jab and weren't as stringent on the public health measures and cases went through the roof.


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    #4577
    silliussoddius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    johnmck wrote: »
    My theory is from what I have heard, and I'll be back on here for you to give me a good scolding if I'm wrong, is that along with a temporary lockdown a curfew will be introduced in conjunction with it in September. Why? I have no bloody idea! Psychological games being planned out by government psychological advisors

    And when you’re wrong I’m sure you’ll evaluate your chosen route toward the conspiracy rabbit hole?
    It’s not a good place to end up.


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    #4578
    smiddyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭smiddyboy


    Trigger wrote: »
    Chile is mainly due to the vaccine that they chose to use. They University of Chile produced a paper on the effectiveness of the Sinovac vaccine that the majority of Chilians were vaccinated with. Their current Figures are approx 50% vaccinated with at least a single dose. A single dose of the Sinovac has 3% effectiveness while 2 doses is just over 50%.

    Compare that to Isreal who have approx 60% vaccinated majority of which are Pfizer who have a 94% effectiveness after 2 jabs. The Israelis are not experiencing anything in the same way as Chile are

    Great minds etc...:P


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    #4579
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    johnmck wrote: »
    Why did I say Japan ! I meant Chile

    Because you were hoping nobody would notice or check maybe?

    That is pretty damn awful from Japan though, even Australia who don't actually have any particular rush to get vaccinated are doing better.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2021/may/10/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-coronavirus-updates-tracker-australia-daily-live-data-stats-update-total-numbers-distribution-progress-schedule-tracking-new-cases-today-statistics-latest-news


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    #4580
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Methinks johnmck wants a curfew and a further lockdown in September. Meanwhile after a few hundred pages we've established that none of the restrictions are, as of yet, permanent.


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    #4581
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    johnmck wrote: »
    Japan locked down last week, one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world.
    Also Japan hasn't lockeddown.

    Not sure why you're repeating these falsehoods when you were pulled up on them a few pages back.
    johnmck wrote: »
    My theory is from what I have heard, and I'll be back on here for you to give me a good scolding if I'm wrong, is that along with a temporary lockdown a curfew will be introduced in conjunction with it in September.
    So then again, even if there is a lockdown and no curfews, you'll accept that your conspiracy theory was wrong?
    johnmck wrote: »
    Why? I have no bloody idea!
    Why do you believe in a theory that doesn't make sense?
    johnmck wrote: »
    Psychological games being planned out by government psychological advisors
    Sorry, but this statement is a bit vague and seems a bit empty.
    What do you mean by "psychological games"? Why would the government play them for no benefit?
    Who are these advisors and what have they told the government and when did they do so?


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    #4582
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    johnmck wrote: »
    My theory is from what I have heard, and I'll be back on here for you to give me a good scolding if I'm wrong, is that along with a temporary lockdown a curfew will be introduced in conjunction with it in September. Why? I have no bloody idea! Psychological games being planned out by government psychological advisors

    What's a government psychological advisor?

    What "games" would they be playing?

    You've gone from the illogical, to just making random stuff up.


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    #4583
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    What's a government psychological advisor?

    What "games" would they be playing?

    You've gone from the illogical, to just making random stuff up.
    I think now the goalposts have moved just in case the curfews don't happen.
    On that case he can claim: "well obviously they leaked the curfews as part of their psychological game, then didn't actually do them to mess with people."


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    #4584
    johnmck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 415 ✭✭johnmck


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    What's a government psychological advisor?

    What "games" would they be playing?

    You've gone from the illogical, to just making random stuff up.

    It's not random

    Read all about it

    https://gript.ie/isag-breaks-silence/


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    #4585
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    johnmck wrote: »
    It's not random

    Read all about it

    https://gript.ie/isag-breaks-silence/

    There's a glaring problem with your 'proof'. Either you didn't read the article or you don't know what you are talking about.


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    #4586
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    johnmck wrote: »
    It's not random

    Read all about it

    https://gript.ie/isag-breaks-silence/

    Why are you dumping another rando link from another crank website?

    Why not answer the questions put to you already?
    Why not express your own opinion rather than parrot crap from Twitter?


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    #4587
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Gript is like the news of the world for the tin foil hat community


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    #4588
    johnmck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 415 ✭✭johnmck


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    Gript is like the news of the world for the tin foil hat community

    I prefer the National Enquirer, it's where I get all my news. Lidl are selling nice new shiney tinfoil hats in the middle isle , along with their soy lattes and gender neutral non binary toys


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    #4589
    johnmck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 415 ✭✭johnmck


    King Mob wrote: »
    Why are you dumping another rando link from another crank website?

    Why not answer the questions put to you already?
    Why not express your own opinion rather than parrot crap from Twitter?

    Why don't you read it, not my job to educate you


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    #4590
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    johnmck wrote: »
    Why don't you read it, not my job to educate you
    Because it's from Griot, a crank website.

    And given how you have had to avoid all of the questions put to you, it's a safe bet that this link isn't very credible.
    Most likely it's something you've read from Twitter, never actually read in full and never did anything to research further or to verify its claims.

    Given you previous claims and how you've had to run away from every point it's very clear that you don't apply much critical thinking to conspiracy claims.

    Why would this link be different?
    If we did address it and asked questions about it would you just run away and ignore again?

    If you're not interested in discussing your claims, why post them?


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    #4591
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    johnmck wrote: »
    Why don't you read it, not my job to educate you

    At least have the courtesy to read your own 'proof' before posting the link.


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