Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

the baby bull elephant · 11-05-2021 9:19am

law987 wrote: »

I'm also shocked at Eversheds only retaining 4 out of 20 trainees? Is that a common theme this year?

Hayes apparently kept all of their trainees last year. Seems very dependant on the firm.

awsah · 11-05-2021 9:30am

aideenc18 wrote: »

Morning guys.

Just FYI, the Law Society confirmed yday that they’re accepting applications for PPC1 2021. Application pack is on their website.

Just a heads up!

Why would they not update the website with this information! It's a joke really!

LawBoy2018 · 11-05-2021 10:32am

law987 wrote: »

I'd agree with Lawboy re trainees, especially in the smaller firms that are only paying 19k, that is incredibly cheap labour, to do valuable work, not only admin tasks, but billable work also. Clients have the option to confirm they don't mind parts of the work being carried out by trainees and legal execs, in return for a lower cost. This means associates and partners can focus on the bigger cases.

I'm also shocked at Eversheds only retaining 4 out of 20 trainees? Is that a common theme this year?

Finally, someone gets it. In my firm, one trainee billable hour = €220. Obviously it would be less in a small office, but you get the picture.

RedMickeyMouse · 11-05-2021 10:51am

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Finally, someone gets it. In my firm, one trainee billable hour = €220. Obviously it would be less in a small office, but you get the picture.

You aren’t wrong, but I’ve worked in a lot of firms (large and small) and have seen first-hand that trainee hours are first to get wiped from the bill as it grows. Trainees have a role in law firms but be careful not to overstate/overrate it.

LawBoy2018 · 11-05-2021 10:59am

RedMickeyMouse wrote: »

You aren’t wrong, but I’ve worked in a lot of firms (large and small) and have seen first-hand that trainee hours are first to get wiped from the bill as it grows. Trainees have a role in law firms but be careful not to overstate/overrate it.

The work still needs to be done though in the first place, i.e. the role of a trainee. I was simply replying to the above poster who mistakenly was of the view that trainees are essentially a dreg to the firm.

tippertruck · 11-05-2021 12:56pm

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Finally, someone gets it. In my firm, one trainee billable hour = €220. Obviously it would be less in a small office, but you get the picture.

At a firm I was in before as an intern, I worked on a letter for a client for circa 20 minutes. Gave it to a solicitor who looked at it with me for about 5 minutes and made very slight changes. It cost the client €150. Trainees are certainly valuable to law firms. The idea that they are useless and that firms are doing them a favour is completely wrong. Take all the trainees out of the firm and they would have to hire legal execs, Solicitors, at higher pay.

law987 · 11-05-2021 1:56pm

As an intern, I filled out a certain contract using a template, took maybe an hour, partner looked over it with me, made some changes, cost the client (a bank) over 1,200. Obviously the partner had some email correspondence with them too, but it just shows that interns and trainees are capable of doing useful work, and only have to be paid minimum wage

Diamond_Hands · 11-05-2021 2:41pm

Slightly off topic, but if an average trainee at one of the big firms is billing around 200 euros an hour, how much would a typical associate/partner/equity partner pull in?

There was an article a few years back where a UK company scrunched the numbers and said Arthur Cox's profits per equity partner is between 1 to 1.5 million a year which seemed insanely high.

law987 · 12-05-2021 1:57pm

400-500 an hour I believe

Wonderstruck · 12-05-2021 3:47pm

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

The system is broken. People should be able to attend Blackhall without a training contract. A system like NY would be better, where you pass the bar exam and you automatically become an attorney.

It would deleverage the parasitic legal practices offering graduates a measly 19K salary in return for access to their career of choice.

Agreed, a friend told me she was on 19k and I was shocked.

I understand the need for workplace training before qualification, but it isn't supposed to be an internship, not to mention if you already have years of experience and you're taking a paycut to 19k. Rough.

I think the poster in the UK should look into the SQE though, if I wasn't training already I'd give it a lot of consideration. It looks like a great route, it isn't too different from the Irish method but the ability to pick up the experience across a few offices very flexibly sounds good, and you'd come back to Ireland qualified and you could mark a start on it very quickly and you've only 2 fe1s, could take you years to finish them too.

FE1new · 12-05-2021 3:58pm

Diamond_Hands wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but if an average trainee at one of the big firms is billing around 200 euros an hour, how much would a typical associate/partner/equity partner pull in?

There was an article a few years back where a UK company scrunched the numbers and said Arthur Cox's profits per equity partner is between 1 to 1.5 million a year which seemed insanely high.

From what I heard in the big firms:

Partner 600+
Senior Associates 420-480 (4-6 yrs PQE)
Junior Associates 350-400 (2-3 yrs PQE)
Solicitor 275(1 yr)
NQ 250
Trainee 200

And the rates for Tax are higher from NQ up.

FE1Hopefully1 · 12-05-2021 4:36pm

Wonderstruck wrote: »

Agreed, a friend told me she was on 19k and I was shocked.

I understand the need for workplace training before qualification, but it isn't supposed to be an internship, not to mention if you already have years of experience and you're taking a paycut to 19k. Rough.

I think the poster in the UK should look into the SQE though, if I wasn't training already I'd give it a lot of consideration. It looks like a great route, it isn't too different from the Irish method but the ability to pick up the experience across a few offices very flexibly sounds good, and you'd come back to Ireland qualified and you could mark a start on it very quickly and you've only 2 fe1s, could take you years to finish them too.

Yeah pay in small firms even in Dublin is bad I’m currently on 20,500 which is ****e have to commute because I couldn’t afford to live in Dublin

Diamond_Hands · 12-05-2021 5:41pm

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Yeah pay in small firms even in Dublin is bad I’m currently on 20,500 which is ****e have to commute because I couldn’t afford to live in Dublin

Is it even worth it if the pay is that low?

FE1Hopefully1 · 12-05-2021 6:01pm

Diamond_Hands wrote: »

Is it even worth it if the pay is that low?

It’s a training contract so yeah worth it for me because I’m in Dublin and can commute but wouldn’t be for everyone also I’m not going to find much better at the moment haha and I do really like the place so I’m willing to compromise for now

Have been told pay will be reviewed after 6 months so fingers crossed haha

Average trainee salary when you look it up is around €27000 I’d be happy with that for a short period of time

LawBoy2018 · 12-05-2021 6:36pm

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

It’s a training contract so yeah worth it for me because I’m in Dublin and can commute but wouldn’t be for everyone also I’m not going to find much better at the moment haha and I do really like the place so I’m willing to compromise for now

Have been told pay will be reviewed after 6 months so fingers crossed haha

Average trainee salary when you look it up is around €27000 I’d be happy with that for a short period of time

This really annoys me. Hope you get a great offer from somewhere decent once you qualify!

Oisin_FE12021 · 13-05-2021 11:06am

From what I gather from this thread, your leaving cert/degree grades are very important to the larger firms when deciding who gets a training contract - do they also take into consideration your FE1 grades? Or do they only care that you passed all 8?

Aisbash · 13-05-2021 11:11am

My firm haven't even asked what I scored in the FE-1s. They were only considered with whether I had them passed before my start date.

Diamond_Hands · 13-05-2021 12:54pm

Oisin_FE12021 wrote: »

From what I gather from this thread, your leaving cert/degree grades are very important to the larger firms when deciding who gets a training contract - do they also take into consideration your FE1 grades? Or do they only care that you passed all 8?

Fe1 grades are completely irrelevant. All that matters is you passed. The exception being if you did so well you got an award for it, which would give you some benefit.

lawgrad49 · 13-05-2021 1:37pm

Hey guys, wondering does anyone have any insight on how the big firms usually run their yearly milkrounds? I.e how many places do they set aside through the milkrounds, what's the process etc. Or can anyone on here let me know if they got a TC offer in a Big firm not through an internship?

I know a few people in Big 5/Top 10 who are current trainees or recent NQ's but all of them got their traineeships off the back of an internship- i.e did their 3 mth summer internship and got their TC offer for 2 years in advance (they went away, finished the FE1's did a bit of travelling etc and landed back 2 years later ready to start)

I'm currently working in professional services (Not legal but FS related) and I ideally don't want to give up a full-time job for an internship or temporary Paralegal job just to get a foot through the door... if I could secure a TC by a regular interview.

I know milkrounds were up in the air with Covid last year but just trying to get an idea of how they usually work! Spoke to a recruiter last week for some advice but she said they don't do trainee recruitment and didn't even know much about the milkround procedure as the Firms handle it themselves and don't give too much info away.

Diamond_Hands · 13-05-2021 2:02pm

lawgrad49 wrote: »

Hey guys, wondering does anyone have any insight on how the big firms usually run their yearly milkrounds? I.e how many places do they set aside through the milkrounds, what's the process etc. Or can anyone on here let me know if they got a TC offer in a Big firm not through an internship?

I know a few people in Big 5/Top 10 who are current trainees or recent NQ's but all of them got their traineeships off the back of an internship- i.e did their 3 mth summer internship and got their TC offer for 2 years in advance (they went away, finished the FE1's did a bit of travelling etc and landed back 2 years later ready to start)

I'm currently working in professional services (Not legal but FS related) and I ideally don't want to give up a full-time job for an internship or temporary Paralegal job just to get a foot through the door... if I could secure a TC by a regular interview.

I know milkrounds were up in the air with Covid last year but just trying to get an idea of how they usually work! Spoke to a recruiter last week for some advice but she said they don't do trainee recruitment and didn't even know much about the milkround procedure as the Firms handle it themselves and don't give too much info away.

I got a TC offer from a big 5 not through an internship, I applied during Milkrounds in my final year of college. They usually get circa 1k applicants with around 30 places at the place I applied. It differs based on the firm. The application process is usually around the same as summer internships but there is usually multiple interviews. Apart from that, the process is usually the same.

lawgrad49 · 13-05-2021 2:48pm

Diamond_Hands wrote: »

I got a TC offer from a big 5 not through an internship, I applied during Milkrounds in my final year of college. They usually get circa 1k applicants with around 30 places at the place I applied. It differs based on the firm. The application process is usually around the same as summer internships but there is usually multiple interviews. Apart from that, the process is usually the same.

Grand, thanks for the insight!

keeponapplying · 13-05-2021 5:58pm

Fe1user5555 wrote: »

I think DAC beachcroft has sent out invites for assessments for training contract in the last few days

PFO out for DACB.

john_fe12020 · 13-05-2021 8:25pm

Anyone hear anything back from Philip Lee yet?

lawster · 13-05-2021 8:25pm

For anyone slagging off someone for considering a training contract for the living wage, circa €22K per year, do a google search for "Be grateful for what you have" and try and understand humility. Just replace the desired helicopter with "a training contract".

The training contract is temporary. It is only one milestone on the road to qualification.

From a qualified solicitor who was once where you are now!

Diamond_Hands · 13-05-2021 8:54pm

lawster wrote: »

For anyone slagging off someone for considering a training contract for the living wage, circa €22K per year, do a google search for "Be grateful for what you have" and try and understand humility. Just replace the desired helicopter with "a training contract".

The training contract is temporary. It is only one milestone on the road to qualification.

From a qualified solicitor who was once where you are now!

More pity than insult.

lawster · 13-05-2021 9:01pm

Diamond_Hands wrote: »

More pity than insult.

Accept your point once I considered it. But can smaller firms really afford to pay much more despite what other posters have said in relation to fees. The more vacancies, the more opportunities for everyone.

rightytighty · 14-05-2021 11:12am

Does anyone know the start date for PPC1?

UCCME · 14-05-2021 7:18pm

Can anyone enlighten me as to whether virtual internships with some of the larger firms were remunerated last year, and whether many indivuals got TC offers? Thanks!

Diamond_Hands · 14-05-2021 8:35pm

UCCME wrote: »

Can anyone enlighten me as to whether virtual internships with some of the larger firms were remunerated last year, and whether many indivuals got TC offers? Thanks!

Yes (depending on the duration) and yes!

UCCME · 14-05-2021 10:29pm

Diamond_Hands wrote: »

Yes (depending on the duration) and yes!

Great to hear, thank you

Lallers96 · 15-05-2021 9:24am

How did people find the interview with Coca Cola?

the baby bull elephant · 15-05-2021 11:15am

Lallers96 wrote: »

How did people find the interview with Coca Cola?

I got the prescreen call and never actually got a call back about the interview as far as I can tell, although I had a lot of spam calls around the time it would have been expected, I'm really curious as to what I might have said to turn them off!

channing90 · 15-05-2021 11:48am

Got the pfo from fieldfisher yesterday after applying in January a full 4 months later, picked a legal secretary job in the meantime in a firm where a TC won't be an option, just hoping to start the Hybrid in a firm by September/ October, surely someone wanting to do the hybrid in a general practice firm is a really attractive option for a firm, I feel a lot of firms aren't actually aware of it. Any thoughts appreciated.

Gaga15 · 15-05-2021 12:04pm

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

I got the prescreen call and never actually got a call back about the interview as far as I can tell, although I had a lot of spam calls around the time it would have been expected, I'm really curious as to what I might have said to turn them off!

The interview invite came via email.
It was a fairly ok interview, a lot more structured than other trainee interviews I've done.

the baby bull elephant · 15-05-2021 12:32pm

Gaga15 wrote: »

The interview invite came via email.
It was a fairly ok interview, a lot more structured than other trainee interviews I've done.

What address was it from? Doubt I missed it anyway. Not surprised they'd be more structured.

Diamond_Hands · 16-05-2021 12:55am

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

The system is broken. People should be able to attend Blackhall without a training contract. A system like NY would be better, where you pass the bar exam and you automatically become an attorney.

It would deleverage the parasitic legal practices offering graduates a measly 19K salary in return for access to their career of choice.

This would have the consequence of causing the qualification itself to be worthless - only where you trained for the first few years of your career. It would also lead to even more largesse and bloating in the solicitor profession. There's already far too many people chasing far too few jobs.

FE1Hopefully1 · 17-05-2021 10:10pm

Curious did anyone apply for the trainee job in Louth that was on the law society website ?

channing90 · 17-05-2021 10:12pm

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Curious did anyone apply for the trainee job in Louth that was on the law society website ?

Yeah I did just for the sake of it even tho I live over 3 hrs away from it, heard nothing back.

the baby bull elephant · 17-05-2021 10:34pm

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Curious did anyone apply for the trainee job in Louth that was on the law society website ?

I did yeah, heard back this evening about an interview and now I'm having a crisis wondering if I'd even want to move there haha.

FE1Hopefully1 · 17-05-2021 10:40pm

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

I did yeah, heard back this evening about an interview and now I'm having a crisis wondering if I'd even want to move there haha.

Would it be far or could you commute haha it’s pretty close to me but I’m waiting on two results so not too hopeful

the baby bull elephant · 17-05-2021 10:55pm

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Would it be far or could you commute haha it’s pretty close to me but I’m waiting on two results so not too hopeful

It's probably be two and a half hours in the cars everyday. Doable but kind of depressing. Moving would be the slightly better option.

blondie8856 · 17-05-2021 11:59pm

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone knows whether it's possible to accept a TC with one firm and later change your mind and accept a TC with a different firm if a contract has been signed?

I have nothing secured yet but I'm weary of applying to smaller firms for a TC before the milk rounds open up again as I'd prefer to work in a larger firm if possible. On the other hand, as it is so competitive I don't want to wait until the milk rounds for the larger firms open before I try to source a TC just in case I'm not successful.

Any insight would be very much appreciated

Diamond_Hands · 18-05-2021 12:16am

blondie8856 wrote: »

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone knows whether it's possible to accept a TC with one firm and later change your mind and accept a TC with a different firm if a contract has been signed?

I have nothing secured yet but I'm weary of applying to smaller firms for a TC before the milk rounds open up again as I'd prefer to work in a larger firm if possible. On the other hand, as it is so competitive I don't want to wait until the milk rounds for the larger firms open before I try to source a TC just in case I'm not successful.

Any insight would be very much appreciated

Yes it's perfectly fine as long as you let them know as early as possible. It's not a rare occurrence so they've probably dealt with it in the past.

Diamond_Hands · 18-05-2021 12:27am

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

It's probably be two and a half hours in the cars everyday. Doable but kind of depressing. Moving would be the slightly better option.

⬆️ Enviably low rent

⬇️ Actually living in Louth lol

FE1Hopefully1 · 18-05-2021 7:54am

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

It's probably be two and a half hours in the cars everyday. Doable but kind of depressing. Moving would be the slightly better option.

Yeah tbf im commuting to Dublin atm so it’s over two hours a day traveling it’s not too fun

aideenc18 · 18-05-2021 12:03pm

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

I did yeah, heard back this evening about an interview and now I'm having a crisis wondering if I'd even want to move there haha.

Can I ask when you applied? Thanks!

LegalEagle21 · 19-05-2021 4:10pm

Is there anyone here who is yet to hear back from DACB either way?

the baby bull elephant · 19-05-2021 4:50pm

aideenc18 wrote: »

Can I ask when you applied? Thanks!

It was within a day or two of the application going up.

keeponapplying · 19-05-2021 4:50pm

LegalEagle21 wrote: »

Is there anyone here who is yet to hear back from DACB either way?

Got the PFO rejection about two weeks ago, unfortunately.

holliek · 19-05-2021 6:04pm

Does anyone have an idea of when PPC1 will start? I know it’s September but nothing else

Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

Comments