Women in Ireland working for free from today until 31 December

Eric Cartman · 14-11-2019 3:51pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Before my time but as far as I know, they put their efforts into anti war protests because they didnt think that men should have to go and die. Bitches

The past equivalent of likes and prayers for sick kods

Reviews and Books Galore · 14-11-2019 3:56pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Before my time but as far as I know, they put their efforts into anti war protests because they didnt think that men should have to go and die. Bitches

Quite common tbh. Complains about male violence, but complaints if men don't stand up for the homestead. It's interesting that you don't see the historical significance of men dying by suicide/workplace/being homeless in regards to what you said. Again, the men who die by war are just toxic men.

Why are you calling women bitches btw? On another note, it is honestly hilarious how quickly people devolve into snarkiness, name calling and bellitlement.

Do you have any kind of arguments to add to the discussion?

14-11-2019 4:02pm

crossman47 wrote: »

Just accept it and move on..

Nope. Won't accept it and move on.

That's how our society has come to such an extreme where females receive far more benefits than males. This isn't about seeking the same benefits, because in many cases, those benefits are artificial and shouldn't be there at all. It's about creating an equal society based on an individuals abilities rather than their gender. Sure, help individuals to do better in life, but don't focus on females just because they're female and they were supposedly discriminated against before any of them were born.

meeeeh wrote: »

Why should they? Those jobs are disappearing plus as we established girls do better in school and are well able to maximize their achievements.

It was established that girls do better in certain types of schooling. Increasing the type of study that girls do well in is the focus of educational boards across Ireland. Which is why any mention of boys failing in schools is thrown under the carpet, while every possible comment is made about needing to improve the situation for girls.

This thread was started as a joke by someone and wasted majority of male posters were complaining how good women having and back slapping each other how unreasonable those feminists are. In fact very few women (except me) made any sort of a contribution. This is a thread about certain men offloading their frustrations and nothing more.

Why are you so threatened by males discussing feminism and it's effects on society? And before you say that you're not threatened, the last two pages are full of you accusing the male posters of whining. Your own "contributions" to this thread have been to put posters and their opinions. How very stereotypical in a feminist way of you. Of course, any objection to the benefits that women receive solely due to their gender would be considered unreasonable. :rolleyes:

ceadaoin. · 14-11-2019 4:05pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Quite common tbh. Complains about male violence, but complaints if men don't stand up for the homestead. It's interesting that you don't see the historical significance of men dying by suicide/workplace/being homeless in regards to what you said. Again, the men who die by war are just toxic men.

Why are you calling women bitches btw? On another note, it is honestly hilarious how quickly people devolve into snarkiness, name calling and bellitlement.

Do you have any kind of arguments to add to the discussion?

You said feminists weren't campaigning to be let into the Vietnam war and I pointed out that instead they were campaigning for it to end. Guess you dont like it when facts go against your evil feminism narrative.

Anyway, I'll leave the men to it complain about women not fighting in wars, not being able to teach boys properly, money grabbers, lazy, over consumers (on the man's dime of course), treating "lower tier" men like dirt etc etc. Business as usual fellas.

14-11-2019 4:11pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

this stupidity needs to stop. both sexes have their ups and downs.

The majority of posts I've seen to this thread haven't touched on the points you made. They've been about the benefits that females receive because of their gender, and the life choices that women choose which disadvantages them, in regards to a wage gap.

Reviews and Books Galore · 14-11-2019 4:12pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

You said feminists weren't campaigning to be let into the Vietnam war and I pointed out that instead they were campaigning for it to end. Guess you dont like it when facts go against your evil feminism narrative.

Anyway, I'll leave the men to it complain about women not fighting in wars, not being able to teach boys properly, money grabbers, lazy, over consumers (on the man's dime of course), treating "lower tier" men like dirt etc etc. Business as usual fellas.

You do realise that people can disagree with you and not be sexist/the devil? I mean, I hope on one level you can realize that?

Everybody on this thread should take special note of the post that I am replying to. See how any dissent is immediately turned into a strawman and compared to sexism, and keep that in mind whenever reading any news about supposed sexism or whatever next gender blowup there is in the future.

14-11-2019 4:26pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

You said feminists weren't campaigning to be let into the Vietnam war and I pointed out that instead they were campaigning for it to end. Guess you dont like it when facts go against your evil feminism narrative.

Hmm... facts.. Ok. Let's look at that fact. Some feminists did protest against the war due to the men dying. Were they protesting as feminists or citizens?

But, lets put that aside for a second. Remember that this being pre-internet, most news came word of mouth, by books, or the TV (but that was state run).

People demonstrated for many reasons.They were communist. That's a definite possibility of the time, and feminists being indoctrinated in Marxist ideological thinking would likely be anti-imperialist. That could be considered a fact. Or that they were against the whole concept of war itself. Or that they were being anti-establishment and protesting against the heavy handedness of "the Man", the federal government. Or they were protesting... for a dozen different reasons. Facts... And there were plenty of supporters for the war, many of whom were women, and probably some of them were feminists.

Because it was quite possible to separate being a feminist and being "something else" depending on the issues being protested. These days people deal in absolutes, so you're either a feminist or you're not. You're not allowed to be partially feminist.. can't support certain feminist issues, without supporting them all. And that's a label thrown around by many people on all sides of the debate.

I don't particularly like the argument about women not fighting in wars, because generally speaking, society itself, places a higher value on the life of a woman, than on a man. That wasn't some feminist conspiracy but a part of western culture, which you don't see so much in other cultures.

My issue has always been about equality. Simply put, I don't see the need for most of the benefits that feminism has gained for females. They might have been needed once, for a short time, but not anymore considering how far society has changed in thirty years. Just as I don't like the narrative that comes from feminism regarding the male gender. There's a hypocrisy with regards to double standards... collective responsibility for males, but no such examination of collective responsibility for females. Not that I actually want any collective responsibility. A move back towards individualism, and personal responsibility would be perfect.

paleoperson · 14-11-2019 4:31pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

It's an old sexist attitude towards men.

Men die longer because they're idiots, not because they put their health second. Men kill themselves more because of toxic masculinity and not because they'res been a constant stream of belittlement since 1960s.

Sure, you can look at the comments towards the soldiers dying in various wars to protect the country/women (which is often how it's portrayed), but, as they are part of the problem, it's all just handwaved away.

Coal miners.
In the fields working 80 hours a week.
Firemen.
Dangerous and nasty jobs such as in sewers.

Some women just hate men, they just hate them. Instead of this being considered a bad thing, they actually believe they're virtue signalling from it. It's absurd. It would be like a group going around hating on blacks. It's a hate group plain and simple.

high_king · 14-11-2019 8:25pm

tylercheribini wrote: »

As a man in his 30's, "the patriarchy" has done f**k all for me so far.

I too am wondering where I can cash in all my "White Male Privileges" ?

So are most of the homeless men in Ireland, and those doing the dirtiest, and most dangerous and lowest paid jobs in Ireland.

No clamber there for equal female numbers.

Silentcorner · 14-11-2019 10:17pm

It really is amazing, that this generation of women, the one's who buy into Patriarchial Oppression Theory that is, who have enjoyed the highest standard of living, education and health standards humanity has ever provided, who participated in the biggest consumer (women control 80% of household income) surge over the last two to three decades, have managed to convince themselves they are "oppressed"....is it time to start selling "Feminist Beans", buy a jar and they'll fight The Patriarchy???

tylercheribini · 14-11-2019 11:18pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

It really is amazing, that this generation of women, the one's who buy into Patriarchial Oppression Theory that is, who have enjoyed the highest standard of living, education and health standards humanity has ever provided, who participated in the biggest consumer (women control 80% of household income) surge over the last two to three decades, have managed to convince themselves they are "oppressed"....is it time to start selling "Feminist Beans", buy a jar and they'll fight The Patriarchy???

Its not about equality, its retribution.

inforfun · 15-11-2019 10:08am

It was sold as "every woman deserves\needs\should have a career"

What it actually was "we need everybody to be a taxpayer"

And here we are. 1 "normal" income isnt enough to buy or rent a proper roof over your head. And that is just 1 downside of many.

Now i know this is Ireland so i reckon you feel better of than in the 70's and 80's.
But if i look at The Netherlands, where i am from...... I am not so sure

Wanderer78 · 15-11-2019 10:12am

inforfun wrote:

What it actually was "we need everybody to be a taxpayer"

It wasn't just political institutions that encouraged women to work, but it was realised that by doing so, more credit/debt could be created by doing so

Kevhog1988 · 15-11-2019 10:19am

Out of 4 people doing the exact same role in our department i recently found out when covering for my manager that the only female in our team is earning 20% more than me for the same tasks (The other 2 guys are comparable to my salary). It may be an isolated incident but when looking at labour costs in this company i am seeing a pay gap for men rather than women.

Zulu · 15-11-2019 10:48am

theemigrant wrote: »

Out of 4 people doing the exact same role in our department i recently found out when covering for my manager that the only female in our team is earning 20% more than me for the same tasks (The other 2 guys are comparable to my salary). It may be an isolated incident but when looking at labour costs in this company i am seeing a pay gap for men rather than women.

If you have that info, use it. Take a case. You are in for at worst a 20% pay rise, at best 20% + significant compensation.

...unless its bullsh1t.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 15-11-2019 11:08am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Anyway, I'll leave the men to it complain about women not fighting in wars, not being able to teach boys properly, money grabbers, lazy, over consumers (on the man's dime of course), treating "lower tier" men like dirt etc etc. Business as usual fellas.

Er, I didn't say that women can't teach boys properly.

I did say that the research (by Professor Dympna Devine, head of the school of education at UCD) suggests that female teachers tend to regard girls as calm, mature, and focused, while stereotyping boys as boisterous and disruptive. They also tend to praise girls more and give them better grades for equivalent work.

If close to 9 in 10 Irish primary teachers were men, and many schools didn't have a single female teacher, I'm sure feminists would be out in force, demanding that more female role models in schools. And they'd probably be right, actually. For instance, research shows that the number of girls interested in STEM almost doubles when they have a female role model to inspire them.

But with all the efforts to ensure that girls have female role models, we've lost sight of the fact that boys also need male role models. Indeed, a boy growing up today in a single-parent household, and being taught exclusively by women at school, may have no male role model in his life at all.

I'm very supportive of all children doing well in education — boys and girls alike. Anyone genuinely concerned about gender equality should be concerned about the anti-boy bias in our schools and the generations of underachieving boys that we are now turning out.

Wibbs · 15-11-2019 11:52am

Zulu wrote: »

If you have that info, use it. Take a case. You are in for at worst a 20% pay rise, at best 20% + significant compensation.

...unless its bullsh1t.

Actually Z the women's council of Ireland IIRC on their website page about the "pay gap" noted that Irish women on average earn 17% more than Irish men before children come into the mix. They couched it in not so clear terms by writing it as a negative figure and then deleted the page. It makes sense too as more women than men go on to third level and tend to be more qualified.

Wibbs · 15-11-2019 11:55am

Here it is including the now deleted page: It came from the National Women's council of Ireland's report . This is the relevant part;

The latest figures from the EU Commission show that the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 13.9% - in other words women in Ireland are paid almost 14% less than men. The Gender Pay Gap exists even though women do better at school and university than men. In the Irish context, what is perhaps most disturbing is the high cost of motherhood. Figures from the OECD show that in Ireland the Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17% but this increases significantly to 14% for women with at least one child – a jump of 31 percentage points. The gender pay gap exists across the sectors.
For the bottom 10% of earners, the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 4% but this rises to 24.6% for the top 10% of income earners, suggesting the continued presence of a glass ceiling and indirect discrimination.

Reviews and Books Galore · 15-11-2019 12:13pm

Zulu wrote: »

If you have that info, use it. Take a case. You are in for at worst a 20% pay rise, at best 20% + significant compensation.

...unless its bullsh1t.

Nope, short term gain long term lost.

You don't want to be known as a trouble maker who needs to tell the teacher to get something done. Even if a woman did it, she would very quickly reach a glass cieling as nobody wants someone who can't handle their own business in senior positions.

Reviews and Books Galore · 15-11-2019 12:16pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Here it is including the now deleted page: It came from the National Women's council of Ireland's report . This is the relevant part;

The latest figures from the EU Commission show that the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 13.9% - in other words women in Ireland are paid almost 14% less than men. The Gender Pay Gap exists even though women do better at school and university than men. In the Irish context, what is perhaps most disturbing is the high cost of motherhood. Figures from the OECD show that in Ireland the Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17% but this increases significantly to 14% for women with at least one child – a jump of 31 percentage points. The gender pay gap exists across the sectors.
For the bottom 10% of earners, the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 4% but this rises to 24.6% for the top 10% of income earners, suggesting the continued presence of a glass ceiling and indirect discrimination.

That's disturbingly hilarious and really, really propraganda like.

newport2 · 15-11-2019 12:18pm

Brittany Sweet Seacoast wrote: »

But with all the efforts to ensure that girls have female role models, we've lost sight of the fact that boys also need male role models. Indeed, a boy growing up today in a single-parent household, and being taught exclusively by women at school, may have no male role model in his life at all.

I'm very supportive of all children doing well in education — boys and girls alike. Anyone genuinely concerned about gender equality should be concerned about the anti-boy bias in our schools and the generations of underachieving boys that we are now turning out.

+1

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/educ...hool-1.1591232

"The recent study, at the University of Kent, revealed that boys are falling behind girls because they are constantly being told they are not up to scratch. The research, which involved about 600 children aged four to 10, found that boys felt their teachers and parents did not expect them to do as well as girls, and lost their motivation or confidence as a result.
Tests showed belief in their own academic inferiority could translate into lower school grades among boys. The results, published in the Child Development journal, showed that by the time boys are seven years old they equate girls with higher achievement at school. Girls believe they are higher achievers by the time they have reached the age of four."

“Our research showed that from the age of four, girls thought they were better than boys at school, believing they understood their work better, did better, were more motivated and better behaved. From the age of seven, boys rated themselves collectively as worse than girls."

"“In a follow-up study,” she says, “we showed that when children were reminded of this stereotype and asked to sit a test of reading, writing and maths, boys did worse compared to a control group of similar boys who were not reminded of the stereotype.
“Girls were not affected by being reminded that they were expected to be better than boys; that is, they didn’t get better. In a second follow-up experiment, we told children that girls and boys were expected to do equally well. This made boys do better and didn’t affect girls; that is, they didn’t get worse.”"

suicide_circus · 15-11-2019 12:27pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Here it is including the now deleted page: It came from the National Women's council of Ireland's report . This is the relevant part;

The latest figures from the EU Commission show that the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 13.9% - in other words women in Ireland are paid almost 14% less than men. The Gender Pay Gap exists even though women do better at school and university than men. In the Irish context, what is perhaps most disturbing is the high cost of motherhood. Figures from the OECD show that in Ireland the Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17% but this increases significantly to 14% for women with at least one child – a jump of 31 percentage points. The gender pay gap exists across the sectors.
For the bottom 10% of earners, the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 4% but this rises to 24.6% for the top 10% of income earners, suggesting the continued presence of a glass ceiling and indirect discrimination.

Bill Gates is -10000000000000000% poorer than me

Kevhog1988 · 15-11-2019 12:28pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Nope, short term gain long term lost.

You don't want to be known as a trouble maker who needs to tell the teacher to get something done. Even if a woman did it, she would very quickly reach a glass cieling as nobody wants someone who can't handle their own business in senior positions.

Exactly... I'll bide my time and use it when suitable.

Zulu · 15-11-2019 1:20pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually Z the women's council of Ireland IIRC on their website page about the "pay gap" noted that Irish women on average earn 17% ...

I'm aware, however, "on average" is different to "exact same role". The former is usual "pay gap" shenanigans, while the later would appear to be an obvious discrimination case with evidence which would be an open/shut big pay out if true.

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Nope, short term gain long term lost.
You don't want to be known as a trouble maker who needs to tell the teacher to get something done. Even if a woman did it, she would very quickly reach a glass cieling as nobody wants someone who can't handle their own business in senior positions.

While I acknowledge this is true in some very limited and restricted areas of the labor market, it simple isnt true of most. However I do find your language quite telling.

In a majority of cases you'd be a fool not to take the case.

Zulu · 15-11-2019 1:22pm

theemigrant wrote: »

Exactly... I'll bide my time and use it when suitable.

What role & industry do you work in as a matter of interest?

Reviews and Books Galore · 15-11-2019 2:30pm

Zulu wrote: »

I'm aware, however, "on average" is different to "exact same role". The former is usual "pay gap" shenanigans, while the later would appear to be an obvious discrimination case with evidence which would be an open/shut big pay out if true.

While I acknowledge this is true in some very limited and restricted areas of the labor market, it simple isnt true of most. However I do find your language quite telling.

In a majority of cases you'd be a fool not to take the case.

You know, I am curious about the language?

tdf7187 · 15-11-2019 2:32pm

There are several construction sites near me and I cannot recall ever seeing a female worker on them. Strange that we never hear complaints about discrimination in that industry. Almost as though the men in society do most of the tough jobs, nursing being the obvious exception.

Wanderer78 · 15-11-2019 2:35pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

There are several construction sites near me and I cannot recall ever seeing a female worker on them. Strange that we never hear complaints about discrimination in that industry. Almost as though the men in society do most of the tough jobs, nursing being the obvious exception.

women do the majority of care work, not just child care, and theres nothing easy about that, and the majority of it is unpaid or low paid

Marcos · 15-11-2019 2:54pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Here it is including the now deleted page: It came from the National Women's council of Ireland's report . This is the relevant part;

The latest figures from the EU Commission show that the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 13.9% - in other words women in Ireland are paid almost 14% less than men. The Gender Pay Gap exists even though women do better at school and university than men. In the Irish context, what is perhaps most disturbing is the high cost of motherhood. Figures from the OECD show that in Ireland the Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17% but this increases significantly to 14% for women with at least one child – a jump of 31 percentage points. The gender pay gap exists across the sectors.
For the bottom 10% of earners, the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 4% but this rises to 24.6% for the top 10% of income earners, suggesting the continued presence of a glass ceiling and indirect discrimination.

There's nothing hilarious about that at all, it's misrepresentation of the facts and deliberate obfusication to support their narrative that all women are victims. They thought they'd get away with it, but when that was questioned it was disappeared from public view in the hopes that it would be forgotten. Which hasn't happened in this case.

Zulu · 15-11-2019 2:58pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

You know, I am curious about the language?

trouble maker
needs to tell the teacher

People view things in different ways and use different language to describe their perspective. I'd suggest the above language wouldn't be used by a big law firm used to dealing with employee issues.

Clear cut discrimination cases tend to get settled before the WRC with payouts and NDA's protecting both parties.

NSAman · 15-11-2019 3:05pm

Just a question? (Oh and one observation)

Is there a National Men’s Council of Ireland?

Surely the National Women’s Council of Ireland are being discriminatory? there is not one man listed as working there.. not even to make the tea!!!

Kevhog1988 · 15-11-2019 3:37pm

Zulu wrote: »

What role & industry do you work in as a matter of interest?

Construction.

Reviews and Books Galore · 15-11-2019 4:01pm

NSAman wrote: »

Just a question? (Oh and one observation)

Is there a National Men’s Council of Ireland?

Surely the National Women’s Council of Ireland are being discriminatory? there is not one man listed as working there.. not even to make the tea!!!

Its not sexism if its to protect the weaker sex.

Wait a second...

Zulu · 18-11-2019 10:47am

theemigrant wrote: »

Construction.

You might be at a hiding to nothing there in fairness.

NIMAN · 18-11-2019 10:54am

tdf7187 wrote: »

There are several construction sites near me and I cannot recall ever seeing a female worker on them. Strange that we never hear complaints about discrimination in that industry. Almost as though the men in society do most of the tough jobs, nursing being the obvious exception.

Exactly.

This film is worth watching.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt3686998/?ref_=fn_al_tt_0

Reviews and Books Galore · 18-11-2019 3:19pm

Nursing and taking care of the elderly is a tough job, but it's still within the realm of 'safe' and , beyond a plague, is still classed as not dangerous.

Interestingly enough, Sweden has the same workplace injuries and death ratio as the rest of the world. Imo, that is shocking.

Chris_Heilong · 18-11-2019 4:50pm

Ah FFS! This whole conspiracy theory again, why has it not died? Sorry ladies you are not victims and it is against the law in Ireland to discriminate when it come to pay and I do not want to hear the "but at the very highest highest level of Management is some legacy company the top men earn a bit more" argument as it has been shown when women take time off to have kids it effects their chances of getting a bonus or promotion as they have not put the time required in. Per-hour women and men earn the same.

Women in Ireland working for free from today until 31 December

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