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Women in Ireland working for free from today until 31 December

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    #152
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't think any of this is sexism. It's just a manifestation of how humans have lived since we were hunter gatherers.
    and the way we have lived since we were hunter gatherers is a manifestation of the patriarchy. or something.


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    #153
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    CageWager wrote: »
    Where do you think all this money that is being earned by men in their “important jobs” ends up? Uncomfortable truth for feminists: it goes straight into the “our money” pile which is largely used to keep women on the conspicuous consumption hamster wheel.

    Probably ends up in Penny's or on wine


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    #154
    UrbanFret
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    How do you contact these women who work for free. I have a few jobs need doing.


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    #155
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Surely Pintman is taking the piss here ... have you read his other posts ?
    Not exactly womens rights officer now is he ?


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    #156
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    maccyd13 wrote: »
    Okay, but bringing up your gender numbers to tackle gender diversity will happen on an entry level, as this will have the least effect on the outcome of the business, whilst still hitting quotas. This therefore effects graduate positions. I don’t believe that anyone who is performing well in a position will lose their job in any way simply due to public pressure. If underperforming then fair enough. But it would simply become unprofitable for HR to remove experienced well performing men from senior positions in favour of taking a chance on inexperienced women.

    You need to take a look at the employment levels where gender quotas and diversity programs are being introduced. It's not where you think it is.

    Feminists and equality orgs aren't pushing to balance the genders at entry level... and more importantly, in all industries. They're cherry picking industries and levels.

    I'm snipping points because we're going around in circles.
    It doesn’t matter whether I have an idea of what it’s like to be a manager, common business sense says you don’t fire an employee who is performing well, nevermind the legality of it.

    Once more, you're missing the point. Businesses and organisations are under pressure to conform to gender diversity programs and those who resist for reasons of competitiveness will be torn to pieces. There is a lot of fear in most industries for the PR backlash in being associated with being anti-female. Perception is everything.

    This isn't about sound business logic. This is about being forced to take in more females to fill the requirements set on them by the government, or private organisations promoting female rights.
    Unfair dismissals can easily be fought in todays climate, with a minimum of a verbal warning and 2 writing warning followed by a meeting. Lackluster performance should not ignored due to the “knowledge that they’ll improve later”, you should be warned and be performing better.

    I've engineered the dismissal of employees before because of orders from upstairs. Any intelligent and capable manager can create a situation to dismiss all but the best kind of employee, because all employees over time, degrade in attentiveness and efficiency. Unfair dismissal can be fought but it's usually managers who underestimate the employee or overestimate their political influence who cause unfair dismissal cases. Like the Chef who was dismissed for asking to kiss a colleague on the cheek. Dismissed for sexual harassment but won his appeal. It's a stupid reason to fire someone, and they could have found far better ways to do so with a little foresight.
    That’s fair enough, I agree but I base evening out on the assumption that women will stop planning for family and become more competitive as such due to more drive in their career, as such what feminists say will happen once “society” changes.

    Except that research and statistics don't prove what feminists expect.. hence the need for society to change. They want women to change. To stop wanting a family and to focus entirely on being a driven career woman.

    Agreed. We're mostly on the same page. Still, you should look at some of the articles from HBR in relation to management science and the statistics on women in the workplace when they reach 30.


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    #157
    maccyd13
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭maccyd13


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Feminists and equality orgs aren't pushing to balance the genders at entry level... and more importantly, in all industries. They're cherry picking industries and levels.

    Fair enough, I’m only speaking from my experience and what opportunities I have missed out of due to this. I didn’t think that gender quotas and diversity programs are being forced on higher level positions, not just the company as a whole. The genders are imbalanced at entry level but in favour of women, this is never talked about.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Businesses and organisations are under pressure to conform to gender diversity programs and those who resist for reasons of competitiveness will be torn to pieces. There is a lot of fear in most industries for the PR backlash in being associated with being anti-female. Perception is everything.

    I get that they are under pressure, but I never would have thought the pressure would outweigh profits or what is actually better for the business to that degree. I have studied PR, and worked in it, just not with a medium/large company where the PR impact would be larger.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I've engineered the dismissal of employees before because of orders from upstairs. Like the Chef who was dismissed for asking to kiss a colleague on the cheek. Dismissed for sexual harassment but won his appeal. It's a stupid reason to fire someone, and they could have found far better ways to do so with a little foresight.

    Wow, that’s crazy that these dismissals can be engineered, scary to be honest. Makes me even less optimistic.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    Except that research and statistics don't prove what feminists expect.. hence the need for society to change. They want women to change. To stop wanting a family and to focus entirely on being a driven career woman.

    Yeah agreed, like fair enough if anybody (man or woman) wants to focus on their career, but it is definitely more commonplace to see the mother want to cease her job because they want to raise a child, not because they feel forced to as other commenters on this thread have mentioned.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Agreed. We're mostly on the same page. Still, you should look at some of the articles from HBR in relation to management science and the statistics on women in the workplace when they reach 30.

    I actually might look at those articles/statistics, definitely some insightful information. I have seen that women drop off their careers after 30, this is certainly ignored though by media and feminists.


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    #158
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    maccyd13 wrote: »
    Wow, that’s crazy that these dismissals can be engineered, scary to be honest. Makes me even less optimistic..

    It's not that bad really. If you're of importance to a company, they'll protect you and target someone else for replacement. Build up your skills, knowledge, and general awareness. You'll want to know the political situation within every company, and to know personally, the key players. (not as friends but they should be able to recognize you, and know your name)

    Once you have the skills and relationships, then you can shop around. I've worked for big multinationals and exclusive private firms. TBH, I found contracting to be the most enjoyable although career progression can be iffy. Specialize in at least three areas which are connected but still far apart to stay relevant.

    I started in Debt recovery/credit control, moved into liquidations/law, negotiations for a while, and lastly management (although management was mostly forced on me). I expanded my ability to communicate at all levels, and improved my soft skills beyond what most people do. [Highly recommend investing the time in getting a NLP practitioners diploma]. I'm now a lecturer in China, do the occasional corporate/management training gig but still get offers for contracts with various companies I previously worked for.

    The idea is to be better than other people. I find that most employees these days just do the bare minimum in their own development, and expect to get promotions/jobs due to their time at the job. It's a common complaint from friends who still work in management positions. Without going to the top companies, the average person lacks the awareness to develop their career intentionally, instead reacting to events. there's also a lot to be said for maintaining your focus in work, and while in work, giving 99%. Most people do that for the first few weeks, but drop down considerably once they settle into a position.


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    #159
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The idea is to be better than other people. I find that most employees these days just do the bare minimum in their own development, and expect to get promotions/jobs due to their time at the job. It's a common complaint from friends who still work in management positions.

    Another aspect is that women who take time out of the workforce to have children often don't maintain their skills and qualifications — which can be a big problem when a field is evolving rapidly. And yet they often expect to walk back into the same role as they had previously and earn the same money as men who have been continually working and upskilling.


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    #160
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    This thread needs to be in After Hours it's so hilarious with all the housekeeping jokes. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:




    HAHHAHA, men are stupid.



    Do you have anything to add to the discussion?


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    #161
    maccyd13
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭maccyd13


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's not that bad really. If you're of importance to a company, they'll protect you and target someone...

    Sound advice. Certainly taking it on board. I work in marketing myself. The digital side of it after I finished my degree. Only in a small company and small team, aim is to grow it to new levels and further establish myself. Certainly feel like I'm missing out on a mentor (I am the most senior marketing person). But thinking that making the calls regarding certain aspects will help me down the line.


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    #162
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Brittany Sweet Seacoast wrote: »
    Another aspect is that women who take time out of the workforce to have children often don't maintain their skills and qualifications — which can be a big problem when a field is evolving rapidly. And yet they often expect to walk back into the same role as they had previously and earn the same money as men who have been continually working and upskilling.

    TBPH, It's a pet peeve of mine. That expectation. It's a middle finger to everyone else who was working hard while she was out, along with the general lack of focus after she returns. I've known women who returned after having a child and complain that they weren't given a promotion that someone else got while she was out of work. She expected to be given the promotion. Why? Because she had a child, and that shouldn't interfere with her performance results . Love the logic. :rolleyes: It's worse, again, with women who decide to have more than one child in a relatively short period of time.

    I really don't like this sense of entitlement that has extended into the workplace. If you want a promotion, then be as good, or better than your colleagues. While having a child is important to society, it shouldn't penalize people who can't or don't have children.


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    #163
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    maccyd13 wrote: »
    Sound advice. Certainly taking it on board. I work in marketing myself. The digital side of it after I finished my degree. Only in a small company and small team, aim is to grow it to new levels and further establish myself. Certainly feel like I'm missing out on a mentor (I am the most senior marketing person). But thinking that making the calls regarding certain aspects will help me down the line.

    Hit the bars popular with higher execs. :D Senior Marketing guys drink like fish. You'll find an experienced mentor that way, either from one of them, or you'll be referred to someone else, just to get you away from their drinking time. :pac:


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    #164
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Brittany Sweet Seacoast wrote: »
    Another aspect is that women who take time out of the workforce to have children often don't maintain their skills and qualifications — which can be a big problem when a field is evolving rapidly. And yet they often expect to walk back into the same role as they had previously and earn the same money as men who have been continually working and upskilling.


    This. If a woman wants to get back into the workforce, she can ask the husband to mind the kids for the weekend and go work in a shop to save up for an online course/in person course.



    Before people belittle men, most men would be actually quite happy to mind the kids by themselves for the weekend.



    Remember ladies, after being on your feet for eight hours, it's important to do the dishes so that you are not slacking on housework during the weekend and the man isn't doing more than his fair share.


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    #165
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Dante7 wrote: »
    Incorrect. The gender pay gap is now mainly due to women deciding to take time out of the workforce to raise children instead. It is a perfectly valid choice. I am a single father and I made the same choice three years ago to take an extended sabbatical to focus on raising my child. When I decided to take the time out I was earning €70k a year. When I go back to work, I will do well to command anywhere near the same salary immediately, and will take a hit. But that's fine. I made the correct decision for my little family. Women make this decision all the time. It's not all about the money.

    This post got 26 thanks (at the moment) and should be saved and dragged out every time when there is a complaint about single mothers sponging of the social welfare. The hypocrisy is quite entertaining.

    The rest of the thread is men telling feminists they know nothing about what women want. That is so nice of them otherwise us women might need to think for ourselves.


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    #166
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    meeeeh wrote: »
    The rest of the thread is men telling feminists they know nothing about what women want.

    It's more people posting about how many women make markedly different decisions from men about what to study in college, what career to pursue, how many hours to work, and whether to take years out of the workforce to raise children.

    Feminists are basing their argument for equal pay on ideology — they believe that the average woman should be paid the same as the average man, and if she isn't, she is being discriminated against — without looking at the numerous other factors that determine salaries. When we control for those other factors, women are not experiencing discrimination.


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    #167
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Brittany Sweet Seacoast wrote: »
    It's more people posting about how many women make markedly different decisions from men about what to study in college, what career to pursue, how many hours to work, and whether to take years out of the workforce to raise children.

    Feminists are basing their argument for equal pay on ideology — women should be paid the same as men, and if they aren't, they are being discriminated against — without looking at the numerous other factors that determine salaries. When we control for those other factors, women are not experiencing discrimination.

    Ah that's good to know. Anyway there is no issue with preferential hiring of women either then. As long as they work the same amount and are paid the same it's perfectly fair.


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    #168
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Ah that's good to know. Anyway there is no issue with preferential hiring of women either then. As long as they work the same amount and are paid the same it's perfectly fair.


    And have the same qualifications and years of experience.


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    #169
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Anyway there is no issue with preferential hiring of women either then.

    I'm not sure how you conclude that from what I wrote.

    There are numerous issues with preferential hiring of employees based on sex, race, or other such factors. It rarely works out well for anyone, including the person who gets the job; others inevitably regard her as someone brought in to fill a diversity quota rather than someone who was hired on merit.


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    #170
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    And have the same qualifications and years of experience.

    Oh yes that works well public service. Promoting old pen pushers with 'years of experience' is bringing great results.


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    #171
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Ah that's good to know. Anyway there is no issue with preferential hiring of women either then. As long as they work the same amount and are paid the same it's perfectly fair.

    I have plenty of issues with preferential hiring of women solely based on their gender. That's sexual discrimination against men who might meet the requirements of the position. Just as I would have issue with preferential hiring of males based solely on their gender.
    Oh yes that works well public service. Promoting old pen pushers with 'years of experience' is bringing great results

    As opposed to putting females in positions regardless of whether they're qualified or not? You are, after all, advocating the placement of females into employment based solely on their gender.

    Oh, and the Civil service is hardly an good example for anything... since the government has zero need to stay competitive within a market.


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    #172
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I have plenty of issues with preferential hiring of women solely based on their gender. That's sexual discrimination against men who might meet the requirements of the position. Just as I would have issue with preferential hiring of males based solely on their gender.



    As opposed to putting females in positions regardless of whether they're qualified or not? You are, after all, advocating the placement of females into employment based solely on their gender.

    Oh, and the Civil service is hardly an good example for anything... since the government has zero need to stay competitive within a market.
    Oh sorry no, I'm just making conclusions from the debate in this thread. It was very informative. I especially love the support and understanding for stay at home single parents. It's heartwarming.


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    #173
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,227 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/1111/1089986-women-working-for-free/



    This is disgraceful! When are the patriarchy going to stop the ridiculous gender stereotyping of women and pay them the same as men!! :mad:

    Patriarchy. Get the fcuk out of it.


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    #174
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Oh sorry no, I'm just making conclusions from the debate in this thread. It was very informative. I especially love the support and understanding for stay at home single parents. It's heartwarming.


    I am sorry, but I am genuinely wondering what your talking about?


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    #175
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    I am sorry, but I am genuinely wondering what your talking about?

    I guess not all of us are blessed with ability to understand but with years of experience it could get better.


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    #176
    dvdman1
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭dvdman1


    Gender pay myth


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    #177
    dvdman1
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭dvdman1


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    Women also do more housework - which is UNPAID!



    Tell me Batrathox... how much housework do YOU do??

    We as a society need to start valuing women's contributions more. If patriarchal capitalist system is broken then government need to step in and pay a subsidy to women to make up the gap a finally recognize the work they do.

    Valuing womens contribution? As opposed to valuing mens contribution?
    Your mytical patriarchal capitalist system doesnt exist...the economy has 1 goal - make money, anybody men or woman who can achieve this gets very handsomely reward..this isnt necessarily a fair system but its not a men vs women issue.
    Government cant step in to pay housework while people die in our hospitals, a false economy comes with its own pitfalls.


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    #178
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I guess not all of us are blessed with ability to understand but with years of experience it could get better.

    You really showed them.


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    #179
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I guess not all of us are blessed with ability to understand but with years of experience it could get better.

    Except that you're being so vague as to confuse even yourself. :rolleyes:


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    #180
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I guess not all of us are blessed with ability to understand but with years of experience it could get better.

    What's the point of these gnomic non-sequiturs? You're a good poster, but right now you just seem resentful that male posters have exposed the "gender pay gap" as the myth it is.


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    #181
    LoughNeagh2017
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭LoughNeagh2017


    Lol at western women thinking they are treated poorly, you wouldn't last a week living as an ugly, short male Autist. Western women live life on tutorial mode, they get up in the morning and they know that noone is going to be rude to them unlike a lower tier male like me. Take a walk around a city and see how few female homeless people there are.


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