Women in Ireland working for free from today until 31 December

crossman47 · 14-11-2019 1:28pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Or you can argue not all of it is gone yet. I have no interest doing it one way or the other.

I think it's well documented girl's development means they do better in tests. I argued before for quotas for boys in certain programmes. It's usually shot down by anti quota crowd. I don't know what else could be done. But you can't just claim girls have it easier and then not at least suggesting of how to approach the problem. Then we are back to pointless whinging again.

Just forget the whinging. Women have it easier in some respects, men in others. Just accept it and move on. By and large, men will never be the ones staying home to raise children, women will never be the ones working in mines or sewers.

meeeeh · 14-11-2019 2:01pm

crossman47 wrote: »

Just forget the whinging. Women have it easier in some respects, men in others. Just accept it and move on. By and large, men will never be the ones staying home to raise children, women will never be the ones working in mines or sewers.

Why should they? Those jobs are disappearing plus as we established girls do better in school and are well able to maximize their achievements.

This thread was started as a joke by someone and wasted majority of male posters were complaining how good women having and back slapping each other how unreasonable those feminists are. In fact very few women (except me) made any sort of a contribution. This is a thread about certain men offloading their frustrations and nothing more.

meeeeh · 14-11-2019 2:08pm

Brittany Sweet Seacoast wrote: »

There's plenty of research showing that female teachers are biased against boys, tending to label them as disruptive and boisterous while describing girls as obedient and mature. Further research from MIT shows that female teachers systematically gave girls higher grades and more praise for the same caliber of work.

Close to 90 percent of Irish primary teachers are now women, meaning that boys spend the first eight years of school in an environment where they have few male role models and a teaching staff biased against them. Boys at an early age learn to identify girls as the better students and boys as the troublemakers.

The typical classroom setup, where students are expected to sit quietly at desks, also favors girls. Disproportionate numbers of boys are kinesthetic learners — but instead of working with boys' learning styles, teachers again label them. Boys are almost three times as likely as girls to be diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

No surprise that so many boys become underachievers.

It's all women's fault again. Vast majority of ministers for education are/were men so are the majority of union officials and heads of departments. And yet you go for those at the bottom of the system and blame them.

Zulu · 14-11-2019 2:11pm

meeeeh wrote: »

It's all women's fault again. Vast majority of ministers for education are/were men so are the majority of union officials and heads of departments. And yet you go for those at the bottom of the system and blame them.

So the patriarchy is oppressing men?!?

meeeeh · 14-11-2019 2:22pm

Zulu wrote: »

So the patriarchy is oppressing men?!?

I didn't say patriarchy I think it points more to the bias of the poster. He is blaming women for being teachers instead of blaming the structures of educational system and lack of employing and encouraging men into teaching positions. Basically he found the only cohort in the system dominated by women and blamed it on them.

suicide_circus · 14-11-2019 2:30pm

this stupidity needs to stop. both sexes have their ups and downs.

women get paid less (allegedly)

men die younger

women do better in education

women are more likely to be raped

men are more likely to be murdered

women are more in touch with their emotions

men are physically stronger

women get shorter prison sentences for the same crimes

men are more likely to be idiots

no one is walking through this life just laughing at how easy it is except maybe a tiny minority of elites and even they spend a lot of time looking over their shoulder.

Eric Cartman · 14-11-2019 2:49pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

this stupidity needs to stop. both sexes have their ups and downs.

women get paid less (allegedly)

men die younger

women do better in education

women are more likely to be raped

men are more likely to be murdered

women are more in touch with their emotions

men are physically stronger

women get shorter prison sentences for the same crimes

men are more likely to be idiots

no one is walking through this life just laughing at how easy it is except maybe a tiny minority of elites and even they spend a lot of time looking over their shoulder.

I would argue that its more likely to matter if men are idiots. Theres plenty of women one brain cell above being declared special needs do absolutely fune in this world because theyre looked after, being an idiot man in general screws you over and nobody will be there to cushion you

14-11-2019 3:44pm

"the patriarchy exists and is to blame for every problem faced by any woman"

---- post of issues faced by males

"the patriarchy isnt to blame for that, in fact whats a patriarchy"

beautiful

Reviews and Books Galore · 14-11-2019 3:45pm

Zulu wrote: »

So the patriarchy is oppressing men?!?

It's an old sexist attitude towards men.

Men die longer because they're idiots, not because they put their health second. Men kill themselves more because of toxic masculinity and not because they'res been a constant stream of belittlement since 1960s.

Sure, you can look at the comments towards the soldiers dying in various wars to protect the country/women (which is often how it's portrayed), but, as they are part of the problem, it's all just handwaved away.

ceadaoin. · 14-11-2019 3:49pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Do you know any feminists campaigning to be let in the lottery during Vietnam war?

Before my time but as far as I know, they put their efforts into anti war protests because they didnt think that men should have to go and die. Bitches

Eric Cartman · 14-11-2019 3:51pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Before my time but as far as I know, they put their efforts into anti war protests because they didnt think that men should have to go and die. Bitches

The past equivalent of likes and prayers for sick kods

Reviews and Books Galore · 14-11-2019 3:56pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Before my time but as far as I know, they put their efforts into anti war protests because they didnt think that men should have to go and die. Bitches

Quite common tbh. Complains about male violence, but complaints if men don't stand up for the homestead. It's interesting that you don't see the historical significance of men dying by suicide/workplace/being homeless in regards to what you said. Again, the men who die by war are just toxic men.

Why are you calling women bitches btw? On another note, it is honestly hilarious how quickly people devolve into snarkiness, name calling and bellitlement.

Do you have any kind of arguments to add to the discussion?

14-11-2019 4:02pm

crossman47 wrote: »

Just accept it and move on..

Nope. Won't accept it and move on.

That's how our society has come to such an extreme where females receive far more benefits than males. This isn't about seeking the same benefits, because in many cases, those benefits are artificial and shouldn't be there at all. It's about creating an equal society based on an individuals abilities rather than their gender. Sure, help individuals to do better in life, but don't focus on females just because they're female and they were supposedly discriminated against before any of them were born.

meeeeh wrote: »

Why should they? Those jobs are disappearing plus as we established girls do better in school and are well able to maximize their achievements.

It was established that girls do better in certain types of schooling. Increasing the type of study that girls do well in is the focus of educational boards across Ireland. Which is why any mention of boys failing in schools is thrown under the carpet, while every possible comment is made about needing to improve the situation for girls.

This thread was started as a joke by someone and wasted majority of male posters were complaining how good women having and back slapping each other how unreasonable those feminists are. In fact very few women (except me) made any sort of a contribution. This is a thread about certain men offloading their frustrations and nothing more.

Why are you so threatened by males discussing feminism and it's effects on society? And before you say that you're not threatened, the last two pages are full of you accusing the male posters of whining. Your own "contributions" to this thread have been to put posters and their opinions. How very stereotypical in a feminist way of you. Of course, any objection to the benefits that women receive solely due to their gender would be considered unreasonable. :rolleyes:

ceadaoin. · 14-11-2019 4:05pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Quite common tbh. Complains about male violence, but complaints if men don't stand up for the homestead. It's interesting that you don't see the historical significance of men dying by suicide/workplace/being homeless in regards to what you said. Again, the men who die by war are just toxic men.

Why are you calling women bitches btw? On another note, it is honestly hilarious how quickly people devolve into snarkiness, name calling and bellitlement.

Do you have any kind of arguments to add to the discussion?

You said feminists weren't campaigning to be let into the Vietnam war and I pointed out that instead they were campaigning for it to end. Guess you dont like it when facts go against your evil feminism narrative.

Anyway, I'll leave the men to it complain about women not fighting in wars, not being able to teach boys properly, money grabbers, lazy, over consumers (on the man's dime of course), treating "lower tier" men like dirt etc etc. Business as usual fellas.

14-11-2019 4:11pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

this stupidity needs to stop. both sexes have their ups and downs.

The majority of posts I've seen to this thread haven't touched on the points you made. They've been about the benefits that females receive because of their gender, and the life choices that women choose which disadvantages them, in regards to a wage gap.

Reviews and Books Galore · 14-11-2019 4:12pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

You said feminists weren't campaigning to be let into the Vietnam war and I pointed out that instead they were campaigning for it to end. Guess you dont like it when facts go against your evil feminism narrative.

Anyway, I'll leave the men to it complain about women not fighting in wars, not being able to teach boys properly, money grabbers, lazy, over consumers (on the man's dime of course), treating "lower tier" men like dirt etc etc. Business as usual fellas.

You do realise that people can disagree with you and not be sexist/the devil? I mean, I hope on one level you can realize that?

Everybody on this thread should take special note of the post that I am replying to. See how any dissent is immediately turned into a strawman and compared to sexism, and keep that in mind whenever reading any news about supposed sexism or whatever next gender blowup there is in the future.

14-11-2019 4:26pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

You said feminists weren't campaigning to be let into the Vietnam war and I pointed out that instead they were campaigning for it to end. Guess you dont like it when facts go against your evil feminism narrative.

Hmm... facts.. Ok. Let's look at that fact. Some feminists did protest against the war due to the men dying. Were they protesting as feminists or citizens?

But, lets put that aside for a second. Remember that this being pre-internet, most news came word of mouth, by books, or the TV (but that was state run).

People demonstrated for many reasons.They were communist. That's a definite possibility of the time, and feminists being indoctrinated in Marxist ideological thinking would likely be anti-imperialist. That could be considered a fact. Or that they were against the whole concept of war itself. Or that they were being anti-establishment and protesting against the heavy handedness of "the Man", the federal government. Or they were protesting... for a dozen different reasons. Facts... And there were plenty of supporters for the war, many of whom were women, and probably some of them were feminists.

Because it was quite possible to separate being a feminist and being "something else" depending on the issues being protested. These days people deal in absolutes, so you're either a feminist or you're not. You're not allowed to be partially feminist.. can't support certain feminist issues, without supporting them all. And that's a label thrown around by many people on all sides of the debate.

I don't particularly like the argument about women not fighting in wars, because generally speaking, society itself, places a higher value on the life of a woman, than on a man. That wasn't some feminist conspiracy but a part of western culture, which you don't see so much in other cultures.

My issue has always been about equality. Simply put, I don't see the need for most of the benefits that feminism has gained for females. They might have been needed once, for a short time, but not anymore considering how far society has changed in thirty years. Just as I don't like the narrative that comes from feminism regarding the male gender. There's a hypocrisy with regards to double standards... collective responsibility for males, but no such examination of collective responsibility for females. Not that I actually want any collective responsibility. A move back towards individualism, and personal responsibility would be perfect.

paleoperson · 14-11-2019 4:31pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

It's an old sexist attitude towards men.

Men die longer because they're idiots, not because they put their health second. Men kill themselves more because of toxic masculinity and not because they'res been a constant stream of belittlement since 1960s.

Sure, you can look at the comments towards the soldiers dying in various wars to protect the country/women (which is often how it's portrayed), but, as they are part of the problem, it's all just handwaved away.

Coal miners.
In the fields working 80 hours a week.
Firemen.
Dangerous and nasty jobs such as in sewers.

Some women just hate men, they just hate them. Instead of this being considered a bad thing, they actually believe they're virtue signalling from it. It's absurd. It would be like a group going around hating on blacks. It's a hate group plain and simple.

high_king · 14-11-2019 8:25pm

tylercheribini wrote: »

As a man in his 30's, "the patriarchy" has done f**k all for me so far.

I too am wondering where I can cash in all my "White Male Privileges" ?

So are most of the homeless men in Ireland, and those doing the dirtiest, and most dangerous and lowest paid jobs in Ireland.

No clamber there for equal female numbers.

Silentcorner · 14-11-2019 10:17pm

It really is amazing, that this generation of women, the one's who buy into Patriarchial Oppression Theory that is, who have enjoyed the highest standard of living, education and health standards humanity has ever provided, who participated in the biggest consumer (women control 80% of household income) surge over the last two to three decades, have managed to convince themselves they are "oppressed"....is it time to start selling "Feminist Beans", buy a jar and they'll fight The Patriarchy???

tylercheribini · 14-11-2019 11:18pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

It really is amazing, that this generation of women, the one's who buy into Patriarchial Oppression Theory that is, who have enjoyed the highest standard of living, education and health standards humanity has ever provided, who participated in the biggest consumer (women control 80% of household income) surge over the last two to three decades, have managed to convince themselves they are "oppressed"....is it time to start selling "Feminist Beans", buy a jar and they'll fight The Patriarchy???

Its not about equality, its retribution.

inforfun · 15-11-2019 10:08am

It was sold as "every woman deserves\needs\should have a career"

What it actually was "we need everybody to be a taxpayer"

And here we are. 1 "normal" income isnt enough to buy or rent a proper roof over your head. And that is just 1 downside of many.

Now i know this is Ireland so i reckon you feel better of than in the 70's and 80's.
But if i look at The Netherlands, where i am from...... I am not so sure

Wanderer78 · 15-11-2019 10:12am

inforfun wrote:

What it actually was "we need everybody to be a taxpayer"

It wasn't just political institutions that encouraged women to work, but it was realised that by doing so, more credit/debt could be created by doing so

Kevhog1988 · 15-11-2019 10:19am

Out of 4 people doing the exact same role in our department i recently found out when covering for my manager that the only female in our team is earning 20% more than me for the same tasks (The other 2 guys are comparable to my salary). It may be an isolated incident but when looking at labour costs in this company i am seeing a pay gap for men rather than women.

Zulu · 15-11-2019 10:48am

theemigrant wrote: »

Out of 4 people doing the exact same role in our department i recently found out when covering for my manager that the only female in our team is earning 20% more than me for the same tasks (The other 2 guys are comparable to my salary). It may be an isolated incident but when looking at labour costs in this company i am seeing a pay gap for men rather than women.

If you have that info, use it. Take a case. You are in for at worst a 20% pay rise, at best 20% + significant compensation.

...unless its bullsh1t.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 15-11-2019 11:08am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Anyway, I'll leave the men to it complain about women not fighting in wars, not being able to teach boys properly, money grabbers, lazy, over consumers (on the man's dime of course), treating "lower tier" men like dirt etc etc. Business as usual fellas.

Er, I didn't say that women can't teach boys properly.

I did say that the research (by Professor Dympna Devine, head of the school of education at UCD) suggests that female teachers tend to regard girls as calm, mature, and focused, while stereotyping boys as boisterous and disruptive. They also tend to praise girls more and give them better grades for equivalent work.

If close to 9 in 10 Irish primary teachers were men, and many schools didn't have a single female teacher, I'm sure feminists would be out in force, demanding that more female role models in schools. And they'd probably be right, actually. For instance, research shows that the number of girls interested in STEM almost doubles when they have a female role model to inspire them.

But with all the efforts to ensure that girls have female role models, we've lost sight of the fact that boys also need male role models. Indeed, a boy growing up today in a single-parent household, and being taught exclusively by women at school, may have no male role model in his life at all.

I'm very supportive of all children doing well in education — boys and girls alike. Anyone genuinely concerned about gender equality should be concerned about the anti-boy bias in our schools and the generations of underachieving boys that we are now turning out.

Wibbs · 15-11-2019 11:52am

Zulu wrote: »

If you have that info, use it. Take a case. You are in for at worst a 20% pay rise, at best 20% + significant compensation.

...unless its bullsh1t.

Actually Z the women's council of Ireland IIRC on their website page about the "pay gap" noted that Irish women on average earn 17% more than Irish men before children come into the mix. They couched it in not so clear terms by writing it as a negative figure and then deleted the page. It makes sense too as more women than men go on to third level and tend to be more qualified.

Wibbs · 15-11-2019 11:55am

Here it is including the now deleted page: It came from the National Women's council of Ireland's report . This is the relevant part;

The latest figures from the EU Commission show that the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 13.9% - in other words women in Ireland are paid almost 14% less than men. The Gender Pay Gap exists even though women do better at school and university than men. In the Irish context, what is perhaps most disturbing is the high cost of motherhood. Figures from the OECD show that in Ireland the Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17% but this increases significantly to 14% for women with at least one child – a jump of 31 percentage points. The gender pay gap exists across the sectors.
For the bottom 10% of earners, the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 4% but this rises to 24.6% for the top 10% of income earners, suggesting the continued presence of a glass ceiling and indirect discrimination.

Reviews and Books Galore · 15-11-2019 12:13pm

Zulu wrote: »

If you have that info, use it. Take a case. You are in for at worst a 20% pay rise, at best 20% + significant compensation.

...unless its bullsh1t.

Nope, short term gain long term lost.

You don't want to be known as a trouble maker who needs to tell the teacher to get something done. Even if a woman did it, she would very quickly reach a glass cieling as nobody wants someone who can't handle their own business in senior positions.

Reviews and Books Galore · 15-11-2019 12:16pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Here it is including the now deleted page: It came from the National Women's council of Ireland's report . This is the relevant part;

The latest figures from the EU Commission show that the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 13.9% - in other words women in Ireland are paid almost 14% less than men. The Gender Pay Gap exists even though women do better at school and university than men. In the Irish context, what is perhaps most disturbing is the high cost of motherhood. Figures from the OECD show that in Ireland the Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17% but this increases significantly to 14% for women with at least one child – a jump of 31 percentage points. The gender pay gap exists across the sectors.
For the bottom 10% of earners, the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 4% but this rises to 24.6% for the top 10% of income earners, suggesting the continued presence of a glass ceiling and indirect discrimination.

That's disturbingly hilarious and really, really propraganda like.

Women in Ireland working for free from today until 31 December

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