Pro 16 Discussion

icdg · 03-06-2021 12:48pm

awec wrote: »

You'd get the european games included in that price.

And Premiership Rugby. And the Top 14. And the PRL Cup, if that’s your thing (not mine, but someone surely watches it). And PRL Sevens (again not my thing).

They’ve had autumn internationals in the past too, not sure what is happening with the centralisation of the rights though. It’s seven channels worth of sport between BT Sport, Premier Sports, and LaLiga TV.

Anyway, it’s just media reports for now. Simon Thomas on WalesOnline seems pretty sure this will be the shape of the deal, but who outside of Celtic Rugby Towers and the broadcasters involved really know.

thomond2006 · 03-06-2021 6:31pm

I feel terrible for the Cheetahs. They are reduced to playing "Invitational teams".

https://twitter.com/CheetahsRugby/status/1398262807498563588?s=19

The Kings were a joke and turned out to be cowboys off the field but the Cheetahs were worth their place in the league.

Thrashssacre · 03-06-2021 7:10pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

I feel terrible for the Cheetahs. They are reduced to playing "Invitational teams".

https://twitter.com/CheetahsRugby/status/1398262807498563588?s=19

The Kings were a joke and turned out to be cowboys off the field but the Cheetahs were worth their place in the league.

They were seriously done dirty played some fantastic rugby at times and still have a competitive squad, wonder what came of the legal battle they said they were taking on the south African Union.

Buer · 03-06-2021 7:53pm

Marcel Coetzee has seen a miraculous recovery and will start for the Bulls tomorrow against the Stormers.

I don't think himself and Ulster will stay as friends after this break up.

In other news, 11 of the Bulls starting team are 25 or younger. They've the potential to dominate for the next 5 years particularly with new found investment.

awec · 03-06-2021 9:01pm

Buer wrote: »

Marcel Coetzee has seen a miraculous recovery and will start for the Bulls tomorrow against the Stormers.

I don't think himself and Ulster will stay as friends after this break up.

In other news, 11 of the Bulls starting team are 25 or younger. They've the potential to dominate for the next 5 years particularly with new found investment.

He's yesterday's news.

bilston · 03-06-2021 11:11pm

Buer wrote: »

Marcel Coetzee has seen a miraculous recovery and will start for the Bulls tomorrow against the Stormers.

I don't think himself and Ulster will stay as friends after this break up.

In other news, 11 of the Bulls starting team are 25 or younger. They've the potential to dominate for the next 5 years particularly with new found investment.

He was expected to be for the last couple of Rainbow Cup matches before he left Ulster, so the timeline isn't a surprise.

Red Silurian · 10-06-2021 10:46am

awec wrote: »

You'd get the european games included in that price.

Rumours are that Europe next year will be the same format as this years one, so 4 games

icdg wrote: »

And Premiership Rugby. And the Top 14. And the PRL Cup, if that’s your thing (not mine, but someone surely watches it). And PRL Sevens (again not my thing).

They’ve had autumn internationals in the past too, not sure what is happening with the centralisation of the rights though. It’s seven channels worth of sport between BT Sport, Premier Sports, and LaLiga TV.

Anyway, it’s just media reports for now. Simon Thomas on WalesOnline seems pretty sure this will be the shape of the deal, but who outside of Celtic Rugby Towers and the broadcasters involved really know.

I don't think a lot of people will have interest in those competitions and fairly sure LaLigaTV is all soccer (not familiar with it) so realistically only 6 channels

Eod100 · 10-06-2021 11:06am

Red Silurian wrote: »

Rumours are that Europe next year will be the same format as this years one, so 4 games

Think that has been confirmed by EPCR

awec · 10-06-2021 11:08am

Red Silurian wrote: »

Rumours are that Europe next year will be the same format as this years one, so 4 games

I don't think a lot of people will have interest in those competitions and fairly sure LaLigaTV is all soccer (not familiar with it) so realistically only 6 channels

I think it's confirmed to be 4 games. The days of 6 pool games in Europe are finished, the English and French want less euro games.

Obviously some people will be worse off since they used to get the league for free. If you wanted to watch European games you needed a BT sub. If you had a BT sub for Europe, you now get the Pro14 for free on top.

Red Silurian · 10-06-2021 1:24pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Think that has been confirmed by EPCR

Got any link to backup the claim?

awec wrote: »

I think it's confirmed to be 4 games. The days of 6 pool games in Europe are finished, the English and French want less euro games.

Obviously some people will be worse off since they used to get the league for free. If you wanted to watch European games you needed a BT sub. If you had a BT sub for Europe, you now get the Pro14 for free on top.

My point about the 4 games is that you can pick up a nowtv pass for a month or 2 to watch the European games, but if it's going to be every week you'd need to subscribe foe the season

OldRio · 10-06-2021 1:41pm

Red Silurian wrote: »

Got any link to backup the claim?

My point about the 4 games is that you can pick up a nowtv pass for a month or 2 to watch the European games, but if it's going to be every week you'd need to subscribe foe the season

Indeed and that would be very expensive.

thomond2006 · 10-06-2021 1:43pm

OldRio wrote: »

Indeed and that would be very expensive.

They do deals all the time, you can just cancel and renew as needed. There's never a need to pay the full price.

Bazzo · 10-06-2021 1:51pm

When are we going to get an announcement on TV rights for the league? Surely it's normally announced a good while at this stage.

awec · 10-06-2021 2:00pm

Bazzo wrote: »

When are we going to get an announcement on TV rights for the league? Surely it's normally announced a good while at this stage.

I reckon they're still trying to sell them.

Eod100 · 10-06-2021 2:15pm

Red Silurian wrote: »

Got any link to backup the claim?/quote]

https://www.epcrugby.com/2021/04/30/twickenham-stadium-to-host-2021-epcr-finals/

Cookiemunster · 10-06-2021 2:31pm

Eod100 wrote: »

https://www.epcrugby.com/2021/04/30/twickenham-stadium-to-host-2021-epcr-finals/

That link confirms nothing more than a 24 team tournament. It actually says that the format and dates have yet to be confirmed.

icdg · 10-06-2021 2:36pm

Bazzo wrote: »

When are we going to get an announcement on TV rights for the league? Surely it's normally announced a good while at this stage.

Last time it was announced in March but I think they’ve form in being late with previous deals. If the kind of deal that’s mooted in certain parts of the media (involving a number of broadcasters sharing U.K. and Ireland rights) is what is being done, it might be just a case of trying to dot the Is and cross the Ts. It’s a bit more complex than doing an exclusive deal with one broadcaster.

I wouldn’t put it past that what awec moots above may be correct, btw. Eir Sport being out of the running and Sky being basically out of rugby union (Lions aside) really dampens pay tv interest in these rights.

Red Silurian · 10-06-2021 2:51pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That link confirms nothing more than a 24 team tournament. It actually says that the format and dates have yet to be confirmed.

The reason behind last seasons format was because the 3 "domestic" competitions weren't on a level playing field with regards the last seasons completion... The English Premiership for example was still running it's 2019/20 season in October

My theory, and it's only a theory, is the 4 South African clubs could be somewhat introduced for this coming season, possibly in the Challenge Cup, or maybe the top 2 in the Rainbow cup will go champions and the others will go challenge

Eod100 · 10-06-2021 3:21pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That link confirms nothing more than a 24 team tournament. It actually says that the format and dates have yet to be confirmed.

Not sure what different format could be used for 24 teams and Munster basing season tickets on current model.

Lost Ormond · 10-06-2021 3:23pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Not sure what different format could be used for 24 teams and Munster basing season tickets on current model.

Munster may base season tickets on current model but that like anything else around tickets is subject to change.

Red Silurian · 10-06-2021 5:08pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Not sure what different format could be used for 24 teams and Munster basing season tickets on current model.

They could split it into the old style and have 6 groups of 4

That means Munster season tickets would cover 2 of the 3 home games and they could then sell more tickets to the third game. They are expecting full crowds to be allowed from January so if the third game were t happen then they could make plenty of profit off that

ClanofLams · 11-06-2021 3:18pm

One thing they really need to improve next season is digital content.

The current three min highlights are awful. Don’t follow super rugby but know their highlights are 6-7 minutes long per game which gives much better insight into how game went.

They should have game highlight packages of six minutes each and then put them into hour long show with presenter and an analyst from each hemisphere. I don’t know if that will be possible with tv rights but would be ideal.

Half hour - 45 minute preview show every Thursday with analyst from each hemisphere too. Covid has shown how effective zoom etc can be for these so it shouldn’t really cost a lot.

I follow the pro14 very closely and know nothing about South African teams really, would think I am in large majority both in this hemisphere and South Africa. If they want league to work need to change that.

thomond2006 · 11-06-2021 3:30pm

Supersport in SA has a very active YouTube channel. Perhaps content will be made available by them.

ClanofLams · 11-06-2021 4:27pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Supersport in SA has a very active YouTube channel. Perhaps content will be made available by them.

Yeah that might work, think it would be better if it was done by league though. Can’t see it being a massive cost to get for example Bernard Jackman or whoever and one SA maybe Pienaar given his knowledge of both league and South Africa for an hour a week.

There will definitely and inevitably be some teething problems with the league but this seems like basic enough stuff to get right. To be honest they should have done this a long time ago, assuming rights allow.

AbusesToilets · 11-06-2021 5:38pm

RC aside, I'm pretty stoked for the next season. The SA teams should be a great addition. If the Welsh teams could ever pull the finger out, the league would be in good shape competitively.

Have they clarified when the SA teams will be eligible for the HC?

randomname2005 · 11-06-2021 6:03pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

One thing they really need to improve next season is digital content.

The current three min highlights are awful. Don’t follow super rugby but know their highlights are 6-7 minutes long per game which gives much better insight into how game went.

They should have game highlight packages of six minutes each and then put them into hour long show with presenter and an analyst from each hemisphere. I don’t know if that will be possible with tv rights but would be ideal.

Half hour - 45 minute preview show every Thursday with analyst from each hemisphere too. Covid has shown how effective zoom etc can be for these so it shouldn’t really cost a lot.

I follow the pro14 very closely and know nothing about South African teams really, would think I am in large majority both in this hemisphere and South Africa. If they want league to work need to change that.

Definitely they need to improve the highlights, and from what I remember it was TV rights that forced the 3 minute limit. Don't see why pro 1x can't dictate that as they co trip the TV rights. Would be great to have a build up and review show on free tv.

Digifriendly · 11-06-2021 10:23pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

One thing they really need to improve next season is digital content.

The current three min highlights are awful. Don’t follow super rugby but know their highlights are 6-7 minutes long per game which gives much better insight into how game went.

They should have game highlight packages of six minutes each and then put them into hour long show with presenter and an analyst from each hemisphere. I don’t know if that will be possible with tv rights but would be ideal.

Half hour - 45 minute preview show every Thursday with analyst from each hemisphere too. Covid has shown how effective zoom etc can be for these so it shouldn’t really cost a lot.

I follow the pro14 very closely and know nothing about South African teams really, would think I am in large majority both in this hemisphere and South Africa. If they want league to work need to change that.

Your point re Super Rugby highlights is explained by nature of high scoring games compared to Pro 14 as well as extra mins being usually taken up with introductory commentary and the odd conversion. Personally I'm happy to see the tries and if penalty or conversion wins a game then that as well.

Lost Ormond · 14-06-2021 10:42pm

Thoughts??

https://twitter.com/BrendanFanning/status/1404554194787487745

awec · 14-06-2021 10:49pm

What a dumb name.

4 pools with 1 league table? My mind is blown.

bilston · 14-06-2021 10:55pm

Will wait until tomorrow for.thenfull details, but home and away derbies is great news....for Benetton

Thrashssacre · 14-06-2021 11:00pm

Finish 8/16 and string a couple of performances together to win the league, absolute farce! I was all for the league revamp with the south African additions but they've somehow managed to make the competition even worse!!

Cookiemunster · 14-06-2021 11:11pm

awec wrote: »

What a dumb name.

4 pools with 1 league table? My mind is blown.

It's basically what everyone expected. Play everyone once and then add the three return derbies.

I assume we'll get TV details tomorrow too.

thomond2006 · 14-06-2021 11:11pm

My first reaction was that it read like the Super Rugby conference system which was a convoluted mess.

The name isn't great, it sounds like a placeholder for a title sponsor. URC is much better than Pro16, however.

We'll see what it all looks like tomorrow but at this stage it doesn't have to be great to be an improvement on what is there now.

ClanofLams · 14-06-2021 11:13pm

If it’s pools by countries (Sco/Italy) that’s ridiculous. 4 best teams in the league this season are Irish.

Neil3030 · 14-06-2021 11:14pm

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Finish 8/16 and string a couple of performances together to win the league, absolute farce! I was all for the league revamp with the south African additions but they've somehow managed to make the competition even worse!!

Assume at least 3 competitive teams from each of Ireland and SA. That's 2 spots left for the likes of Glasgow, Benetton, Scarlets, Ospreys, the remaining Irish province and remaining SA side....

Should be fairly competitive, imo.

ClanofLams · 14-06-2021 11:16pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Assume at least 3 competitive teams from each of Ireland and SA. That's 2 spots left for the likes of Glasgow, Benetton, Scarlets, Ospreys, the remaining Irish province and remaining SA side....

Should be fairly competitive, imo.

If it’s by country though you’re gonna have two of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Treviso and Zebre making the quarters….

Neil3030 · 14-06-2021 11:21pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

If it’s by country though you’re gonna have two of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Treviso and Zebre making the quarters….

Quarter spots have never been ringfenced by country in the various Pro competitions, have they?

ClanofLams · 14-06-2021 11:29pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Quarter spots have never been ringfenced by country in the various Pro competitions, have they?

We have never had pools though.

Just looking more at Twitter, apparently it’s going to be each pool winner into quarter finals and then a combined league table with top four not qualified as pool winners making up the quarters.

Still seems far from ideal, though there is probably isn’t an ideal format. It will be interesting to see if pool winners are guaranteed home quarters which could lead to some farcical situations if for example Munster were 2nd to Leinster in actual table but as pool runners up had to travel to South Africa.

Seems complex, two pools of 8 with simple top 4 qualifying would have worked better maybe but will see details tomorrow I guess.

sydthebeat · 14-06-2021 11:39pm

I've a feeling it will be pool winners and next four wildcards.

So quarters will be 3 Irish, 3 bokke, 1 Welsh and 1 scot/Italian.

aloooof · 14-06-2021 11:42pm

Is it just me or does rugby, more than any other sport, consistently come up with odd / convoluted formats?

I guess the unions will rightly always want home and away derbies, so any solution is going to be lob-sided, but the continual changing must have had some affect on converting casual fans to more regular observers.

ClanofLams · 14-06-2021 11:48pm

Points in favour

Likely makes almost every game relevant.
Guarantees good geographical spread in play offs.

Points against
Very complex, the casual viewer is going to struggle to understand this.
Makes league inherently unfair, or more so.
If pool winners are guaranteed home play offs, then potentially have second best team in league having away play off.

icdg · 14-06-2021 11:49pm

Not really. I struggle to understand the formats of any US sport league, and I love watching the NFL but my god the scheduling rules take some understanding, and it’s the most straightforward of the lot of them!

United Rugby Championship? Really? Who gets the do the marketing for that I wonder.

Dave_The_Sheep · 15-06-2021 12:44am

What's wrong with calling it Celtic League and Friends?

Format sounds gash.

AbusesToilets · 15-06-2021 2:30am

Have they learnt nothing from Super Rugby's issues over the years? How hard would it be to just do Home or Away, alternating with top 4 or 6 into a playoff?

Sabre0001 · 15-06-2021 8:00am

9:30 announcement according to post on Instagram so not long to wait at least

salmocab · 15-06-2021 8:08am

sydthebeat wrote: »

I've a feeling it will be pool winners and next four wildcards.

So quarters will be 3 Irish, 3 bokke, 1 Welsh and 1 scot/Italian.

Although it’d be hard for say the third Irish team as they have tougher return matches than say the Scot/Italian second place team. The easier group might allow for the extra few points that make the difference

Eod100 · 15-06-2021 8:11am

Sabre0001 wrote: »

9:30 announcement according to post on Instagram so not long to wait at least

On their twitter too https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/1404687868291915780?s=19

irelandrover · 15-06-2021 8:13am

The name is fine. Means they dont have to change everytime there is a change to the teams.

And the format is as expected really. A league where you don't play everyone isn't good so 2 groups of 8 was never going to happen. And teh welsh and the Irish were never going to give up their derbies as that's there biggest attendances.

sydthebeat · 15-06-2021 8:19am

hopefuly, its just a straight out meritocratic battle for league places.... but when they mention 4 conferences then i get worried about guaranteed spots and wildcard systems

icdg · 15-06-2021 8:32am

FT article. Interesting points - no mention of Premier Sports, majority of games to be FTA in U.K./Ireland, and talk of a global OTT streaming service.

https://www.ft.com/content/a818f21c-10f3-444b-8f10-3b531e11352b

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