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Pro 16 Discussion

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2456

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    #32
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    According to Thornely,

    "Plans for the inaugural cross-hemisphere competition are at an advanced stage and the likelihood is that next season’s Pro16 will feature two pools of eight, wherein each team plays the other seven teams at home and away, with additional return derbies worked into the schedule."

    So I guess that means 14 pool matches, plus 4 return derby matches against the provinces in the other pool, so 18 matches before playoffs, and I'd assume the playoffs will be top 6, 2 quarters, semis, and the final.

    So we wouldn't play 6 teams at all in a season? Feels very diluted to me, beginning to think a return to the Celtic League and let the italians and Saffers off on their own would be a more viable solution? Munster were in the process of creating a great rivalry with Glasgow before the Saffers came in and ruined it all


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    #33
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    So we wouldn't play 6 teams at all in a season? Feels very diluted to me, beginning to think a return to the Celtic League and let the italians and Saffers off on their own would be a more viable solution? Munster were in the process of creating a great rivalry with Glasgow before the Saffers came in and ruined it all
    A return to a Celtic league would be the road to ruin. There's simply isn't enough money in that. The Italians were paying to be involved and the Saffers are bringing a lot of TV money to the table.

    The simple fact is that money is needed to survive and the expanded tournament provides that money.


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    #34
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,989 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    So we wouldn't play 6 teams at all in a season? Feels very diluted to me, beginning to think a return to the Celtic League and let the italians and Saffers off on their own would be a more viable solution? Munster were in the process of creating a great rivalry with Glasgow before the Saffers came in and ruined it all

    assume you havent watched the scottish or welsh teams in the proXX for the last 10 years then if you think a return to a celtic league would be a viable league.

    at this stage id prefer 4 bokke, 4 irish, 2 welsh, 1 scot and 1 italian in a Pro12 where everyone plays each other twice.

    but that wont happen of course.


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    #35
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    assume you havent watched the scottish or welsh teams in the proXX for the last 10 years then if you think a return to a celtic league would be a viable league.

    at this stage id prefer 4 bokke, 4 irish, 2 welsh, 1 scot and 1 italian in a Pro12 where everyone plays each other twice.

    but that wont happen of course.

    I've watched the South Africans and Italians who are the only 2 nations to not have had a Champion in the last 10 years... A part of me wonders if the extra travel associated with the Saffers and Italians is weakening the Scottish and Welsh sides


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    #36
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,989 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    I've watched the South Africans and Italians who are the only 2 nations to not have had a Champion in the last 10 years... A part of me wonders if the extra travel associated with the Saffers and Italians is weakening the Scottish and Welsh sides

    Its not the same South Africans


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    #37
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    assume you havent watched the scottish or welsh teams in the proXX for the last 10 years then if you think a return to a celtic league would be a viable league.

    at this stage id prefer 4 bokke, 4 irish, 2 welsh, 1 scot and 1 italian in a Pro12 where everyone plays each other twice.

    but that wont happen of course.

    There was talk of the welsh teams merging and the Italians don't really seem interested in fairness so you could easily have a Pro12 with 4/4/2/2 between the original Celts and the Saffers
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Its not the same South Africans

    True, it's the super rugby South Africans who between the 4 of them (6 at one stage) have won the competition 3 times since 1996... I can't see them being much of a threat


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    #38
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    There was talk of the welsh teams merging and the Italians don't really seem interested in fairness so you could easily have a Pro12 with 4/4/2/2 between the original Celts and the Saffers



    True, it's the super rugby South Africans who between the 4 of them (6 at one stage) have won the competition 3 times since 1996... I can't see them being much of a threat

    Apart from possibly Leinster, there isn’t a team in the ProXX that would have a snowballs chance of winning Super Rugby. I wouldn’t even be sure that Leinster could.


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    #39
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Bulls and Sharks will definitely be among the best sides in the Pro16.

    Lions and Stormers I'd say are comfortably better than most teams.


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    #40
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Apart from possibly Leinster, there isn’t a team in the ProXX that would have a snowballs chance of winning Super Rugby. I wouldn’t even be sure that Leinster could.

    Ya Leinster of a few years ago may have but not right now I'd say


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    #41
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,670 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    The Lions sub tighthead is the most out of shape pro I've seen in a while.

    Also, this Lions Vs Stormers game is great. It's 37-36 to the Lions in the 82nd minute. Lions tried to kill the game off and on the 80th minute exactly they sealed off, gave away a penalty, Stormers kicked to the Lions 10m won another pen and Morne Steyn just kicked the winning penalty.


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    #42
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,797 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I think the Irish teams, above any of the Pro XX, would adapt well to Super Rugby. So much of the Irish provincial philosophies is anchored in SH thinking.

    Maybe not in the first season, but by a second Season I'd expect Leinster to challenge a Crusaders or a Stormers.


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    #43
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Clegg wrote: »
    The Lions sub tighthead is the most out of shape pro I've seen in a while.

    Also, this Lions Vs Stormers game is great. It's 37-36 to the Lions in the 82nd minute. Lions tried to kill the game off and on the 80th minute exactly they sealed off, gave away a penalty, Stormers kicked to the Lions 10m won another pen and Morne Steyn just kicked the winning penalty.

    Worse than Rhys Henry from the Ospreys?


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    #44
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    awec wrote: »
    Bulls and Sharks will definitely be among the best sides in the Pro16.

    Lions and Stormers I'd say are comfortably better than most teams.

    After watching the game today, my verdict on the Sharks is wait and see. Very poor performance in terms of discipline and their pack got absolutely destroyed by the bulls. It’s hard to make any judgement off one game but they were poor today.


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    #45
    Downlinz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    So we wouldn't play 6 teams at all in a season? Feels very diluted to me, beginning to think a return to the Celtic League and let the italians and Saffers off on their own would be a more viable solution? Munster were in the process of creating a great rivalry with Glasgow before the Saffers came in and ruined it all

    Glasgow are dead as a competitive force at this stage, they've let all their best players leave and their backroom staff from when they were last successful have moved elsewhere as well. Like the Welsh they seem to be treating the Pro more like a development league now and that doesn't offer very much to the Irish teams.

    The big South African sides are the last hope for a functioning league IMO. Otherwise I think we'll continue to see the 4 provinces dominate, interest will fade in Wales, Scotland, Italy and our international setup will suffer as our players will be playing AIL caliber teams most weekends.


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    #46
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The silence around the TV rights for this cannot be a good sign.


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    #47
    PMC83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭PMC83


    awec wrote: »
    The silence around the TV rights for this cannot be a good sign.


    I see BBC Wales are getting a share of the regions games


    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/new-pro16-live-coverage-set-20620493


    From the mummers we are looking at a shared option Between RTE, TG4 and BBC NI. Hopefully this is the case and they are thrashing things out.


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    #48
    Utah_Saint
    Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    PMC83 wrote: »
    I see BBC Wales are getting a share of the regions games


    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/new-pro16-live-coverage-set-20620493


    From the mummers we are looking at a shared option Between RTE, TG4 and BBC NI. Hopefully this is the case and they are thrashing things out.

    I'm surprised Sky didn't go for it to bring rugby back to Sky Sports.

    Also surprised BT didn't bid so they could complete their Rugby offering.


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    #49
    PMC83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Utah_Saint wrote: »
    I'm surprised Sky didn't go for it to bring rugby back to Sky Sports.

    Also surprised BT didn't bid so they could complete their Rugby offering.


    I read somewhere that Sky had pulled out?


    Crappy as Eir was, it was great that they covered 95% of the games. Could often find a few good neutral games. These wont be on the likes of RTE unfortunately


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    #50
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,511 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    It looks like it’s going to be a very similar situation to the 2014-18 era. Premier Sports perhaps taking a “pick of the week” game or two with the other games spread around the PSBs, with RTE, TG4, BBC Wales, and S4C involved, though it seems unclear what’s going to happen in Scotland.

    At the time Sky previously had the rights they still had a good Rugby portfolio (England games, Heineken Cup, Southern Hemisphere, Top14) but needed a replacement for PRL which they had lost not too long previous. Now they are in a completely different scenario where once this Lions tour is over they are completely done with rugby union. They may want back in, it is the UK’s second most popular team sport and a big hole in their portfolio but the way back in is probably through the AI rights (which may go to Amazon) rather than the ProXX.

    BT - they already have a lot of resources invested in the PRL contract where they are sole host broadcaster and they don’t really need the ProXX tbh, they have set out their stall as the home of English club rugby and taking on host broadcaster duties for another tournament just doesn’t fit for them.

    The biggest problem for both Sky and BT is though that the ProXX just has no interest in England.


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    #51
    PMC83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭PMC83


    icdg wrote: »
    The biggest problem for both Sky and BT is though that the ProXX just has no interest in England.


    Yeah nail on the head there. The English (and many other rugby fans) would have a passing interest in Super Rugby or Top 14 outside their own league, but Pro16 just isn't that attractive unless you have a team in it.


    TBH I'm happy as long as it isn't Amazon. I'm still not convinced that streamers are the way to go for sport. No pause, no record. Nightmare if you kids in the gaff!


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    #52
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    BBC NI sounds good to me.

    If Premier Sports get coverage in Ireland for the games that wouldn't be the worst either, since Premier Sports is a free channel for anyone with a BT Sport subscription.


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    #53
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I think the Irish teams, above any of the Pro XX, would adapt well to Super Rugby. So much of the Irish provincial philosophies is anchored in SH thinking.

    Maybe not in the first season, but by a second Season I'd expect Leinster to challenge a Crusaders or a Stormers.

    I don't know about that stormers maby but the top nz teams are a few steps above leinster currently and it would likely take a few years. Munster and leinster in particular bare far more forward dominant than most sh teams.


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    #54
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,915 ✭✭✭OldRio


    awec wrote: »
    BBC NI sounds good to me.

    If Premier Sports get coverage in Ireland for the games that wouldn't be the worst either, since Premier Sports is a free channel for anyone with a BT Sport subscription.

    A 'free' channel that you need a subscription for?


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    #55
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,511 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    You could equally put it that BT Sport is free with Premier Sports.

    Better to say that there is a single Sports Extra Pack that includes BT Sport, Premier Sports and (on Sky only) La Liga TV.


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    #56
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    icdg wrote: »
    You could equally put it that BT Sport is free with Premier Sports.

    Better to say that there is a single Sports Extra Pack that includes BT Sport, Premier Sports and (on Sky only) La Liga TV.

    You could also say that if the prowhatever is on FTA + Premier in Ireland, then a single sports sub (Sports Extra) will get you access to all rugby (league and europe).

    It'll also be available on NowTV which means you wouldn't even need a full sub.


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    #57
    PMC83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭PMC83


    https://www.the42.ie/eir-sport-cease-broadcasting-5441729-May2021/

    Well thats certainly that!


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    #58
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    PMC83 wrote: »
    https://www.the42.ie/eir-sport-cease-broadcasting-5441729-May2021/

    Well thats certainly that!

    It's a pity it didn't work out.
    We really had it too good in the first year of its existence with BT included in the Eir package.


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    #59
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It's a pity it didn't work out.
    We really had it too good in the first year of its existence with BT included in the Eir package.

    Yea the first year was excellent value, but BT is where all the value was.

    When they lost BT and kept the price the same it was laughable and must have cost them a tonne of subscribers.


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    #60
    PMC83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭PMC83


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It's a pity it didn't work out.
    We really had it too good in the first year of its existence with BT included in the Eir package.


    Yeah, was amazing that first year. Feel bad for any staff out of job, but as a company they weren't the best.


    Hopefully we get an announcement on the future of the PR16 over the next while


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    #61
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It's a pity it didn't work out.
    We really had it too good in the first year of its existence with BT included in the Eir package.

    Their whole dispute with Virgin Media really bit them in the arse, particularly the way they went about it but suppose it was a sign of things to come.


This discussion has been closed.
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