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Pro 16 Discussion

Red Silurian

How do you see it playing out and how would you like to see it play out?

What we know
16 Teams
4 Irish
4 Welsh
2 Scottish
2 Italian
4 South African

Obviously the most fair situation would be 1 table of 16 teams and each team playing 15 Home and Away games but I don't think that's logical

The best option I think is an East/West or North/South conferences
That is to say

North Conference
Ulster and Connacht (The 2 northern most Irish provinces)
Edinburgh (slightly more north than Glasgow)
Scarlets + Ospreys (The 2 northern most Welsh teams)
Benetton (more north than Zebre)
Lions and Bulls (The 2 northern most South African teams)

South conference
All the rest

Dividing it equally among the countries so 8 teams per conference, home+away in each conference home or away for the rest + 2 further inter-country games

That's 24 games, 25 if you have a final

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Red Silurian

Eod100 wrote: »

Not sure what different format could be used for 24 teams and Munster basing season tickets on current model.

They could split it into the old style and have 6 groups of 4

That means Munster season tickets would cover 2 of the 3 home games and they could then sell more tickets to the third game. They are expecting full crowds to be allowed from January so if the third game were t happen then they could make plenty of profit off that

ClanofLams

One thing they really need to improve next season is digital content.

The current three min highlights are awful. Don’t follow super rugby but know their highlights are 6-7 minutes long per game which gives much better insight into how game went.

They should have game highlight packages of six minutes each and then put them into hour long show with presenter and an analyst from each hemisphere. I don’t know if that will be possible with tv rights but would be ideal.

Half hour - 45 minute preview show every Thursday with analyst from each hemisphere too. Covid has shown how effective zoom etc can be for these so it shouldn’t really cost a lot.

I follow the pro14 very closely and know nothing about South African teams really, would think I am in large majority both in this hemisphere and South Africa. If they want league to work need to change that.

thomond2006

Supersport in SA has a very active YouTube channel. Perhaps content will be made available by them.

ClanofLams

thomond2006 wrote: »

Supersport in SA has a very active YouTube channel. Perhaps content will be made available by them.

Yeah that might work, think it would be better if it was done by league though. Can’t see it being a massive cost to get for example Bernard Jackman or whoever and one SA maybe Pienaar given his knowledge of both league and South Africa for an hour a week.

There will definitely and inevitably be some teething problems with the league but this seems like basic enough stuff to get right. To be honest they should have done this a long time ago, assuming rights allow.

AbusesToilets

RC aside, I'm pretty stoked for the next season. The SA teams should be a great addition. If the Welsh teams could ever pull the finger out, the league would be in good shape competitively.

Have they clarified when the SA teams will be eligible for the HC?

randomname2005

ClanofLams wrote: »

One thing they really need to improve next season is digital content.

The current three min highlights are awful. Don’t follow super rugby but know their highlights are 6-7 minutes long per game which gives much better insight into how game went.

They should have game highlight packages of six minutes each and then put them into hour long show with presenter and an analyst from each hemisphere. I don’t know if that will be possible with tv rights but would be ideal.

Half hour - 45 minute preview show every Thursday with analyst from each hemisphere too. Covid has shown how effective zoom etc can be for these so it shouldn’t really cost a lot.

I follow the pro14 very closely and know nothing about South African teams really, would think I am in large majority both in this hemisphere and South Africa. If they want league to work need to change that.

Definitely they need to improve the highlights, and from what I remember it was TV rights that forced the 3 minute limit. Don't see why pro 1x can't dictate that as they co trip the TV rights. Would be great to have a build up and review show on free tv.

Digifriendly

ClanofLams wrote: »

One thing they really need to improve next season is digital content.

The current three min highlights are awful. Don’t follow super rugby but know their highlights are 6-7 minutes long per game which gives much better insight into how game went.

They should have game highlight packages of six minutes each and then put them into hour long show with presenter and an analyst from each hemisphere. I don’t know if that will be possible with tv rights but would be ideal.

Half hour - 45 minute preview show every Thursday with analyst from each hemisphere too. Covid has shown how effective zoom etc can be for these so it shouldn’t really cost a lot.

I follow the pro14 very closely and know nothing about South African teams really, would think I am in large majority both in this hemisphere and South Africa. If they want league to work need to change that.

Your point re Super Rugby highlights is explained by nature of high scoring games compared to Pro 14 as well as extra mins being usually taken up with introductory commentary and the odd conversion. Personally I'm happy to see the tries and if penalty or conversion wins a game then that as well.

Lost Ormond

Thoughts??

https://twitter.com/BrendanFanning/status/1404554194787487745

awec

What a dumb name.

4 pools with 1 league table? My mind is blown.

bilston

Will wait until tomorrow for.thenfull details, but home and away derbies is great news....for Benetton

Thrashssacre

Finish 8/16 and string a couple of performances together to win the league, absolute farce! I was all for the league revamp with the south African additions but they've somehow managed to make the competition even worse!!

Cookiemunster

awec wrote: »

What a dumb name.

4 pools with 1 league table? My mind is blown.

It's basically what everyone expected. Play everyone once and then add the three return derbies.

I assume we'll get TV details tomorrow too.

thomond2006

My first reaction was that it read like the Super Rugby conference system which was a convoluted mess.

The name isn't great, it sounds like a placeholder for a title sponsor. URC is much better than Pro16, however.

We'll see what it all looks like tomorrow but at this stage it doesn't have to be great to be an improvement on what is there now.

ClanofLams

If it’s pools by countries (Sco/Italy) that’s ridiculous. 4 best teams in the league this season are Irish.

Neil3030

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Finish 8/16 and string a couple of performances together to win the league, absolute farce! I was all for the league revamp with the south African additions but they've somehow managed to make the competition even worse!!

Assume at least 3 competitive teams from each of Ireland and SA. That's 2 spots left for the likes of Glasgow, Benetton, Scarlets, Ospreys, the remaining Irish province and remaining SA side....

Should be fairly competitive, imo.

ClanofLams

Neil3030 wrote: »

Assume at least 3 competitive teams from each of Ireland and SA. That's 2 spots left for the likes of Glasgow, Benetton, Scarlets, Ospreys, the remaining Irish province and remaining SA side....

Should be fairly competitive, imo.

If it’s by country though you’re gonna have two of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Treviso and Zebre making the quarters….

Neil3030

ClanofLams wrote: »

If it’s by country though you’re gonna have two of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Treviso and Zebre making the quarters….

Quarter spots have never been ringfenced by country in the various Pro competitions, have they?

ClanofLams

Neil3030 wrote: »

Quarter spots have never been ringfenced by country in the various Pro competitions, have they?

We have never had pools though.

Just looking more at Twitter, apparently it’s going to be each pool winner into quarter finals and then a combined league table with top four not qualified as pool winners making up the quarters.

Still seems far from ideal, though there is probably isn’t an ideal format. It will be interesting to see if pool winners are guaranteed home quarters which could lead to some farcical situations if for example Munster were 2nd to Leinster in actual table but as pool runners up had to travel to South Africa.

Seems complex, two pools of 8 with simple top 4 qualifying would have worked better maybe but will see details tomorrow I guess.

sydthebeat

I've a feeling it will be pool winners and next four wildcards.

So quarters will be 3 Irish, 3 bokke, 1 Welsh and 1 scot/Italian.

aloooof

Is it just me or does rugby, more than any other sport, consistently come up with odd / convoluted formats?

I guess the unions will rightly always want home and away derbies, so any solution is going to be lob-sided, but the continual changing must have had some affect on converting casual fans to more regular observers.

ClanofLams

Points in favour

Likely makes almost every game relevant.
Guarantees good geographical spread in play offs.

Points against
Very complex, the casual viewer is going to struggle to understand this.
Makes league inherently unfair, or more so.
If pool winners are guaranteed home play offs, then potentially have second best team in league having away play off.

icdg

Not really. I struggle to understand the formats of any US sport league, and I love watching the NFL but my god the scheduling rules take some understanding, and it’s the most straightforward of the lot of them!

United Rugby Championship? Really? Who gets the do the marketing for that I wonder.

Dave_The_Sheep

What's wrong with calling it Celtic League and Friends?

Format sounds gash.

AbusesToilets

Have they learnt nothing from Super Rugby's issues over the years? How hard would it be to just do Home or Away, alternating with top 4 or 6 into a playoff?

Sabre0001

9:30 announcement according to post on Instagram so not long to wait at least

salmocab

sydthebeat wrote: »

I've a feeling it will be pool winners and next four wildcards.

So quarters will be 3 Irish, 3 bokke, 1 Welsh and 1 scot/Italian.

Although it’d be hard for say the third Irish team as they have tougher return matches than say the Scot/Italian second place team. The easier group might allow for the extra few points that make the difference

Eod100

Sabre0001 wrote: »

9:30 announcement according to post on Instagram so not long to wait at least

On their twitter too https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/1404687868291915780?s=19

irelandrover

The name is fine. Means they dont have to change everytime there is a change to the teams.

And the format is as expected really. A league where you don't play everyone isn't good so 2 groups of 8 was never going to happen. And teh welsh and the Irish were never going to give up their derbies as that's there biggest attendances.

sydthebeat

hopefuly, its just a straight out meritocratic battle for league places.... but when they mention 4 conferences then i get worried about guaranteed spots and wildcard systems

icdg

FT article. Interesting points - no mention of Premier Sports, majority of games to be FTA in U.K./Ireland, and talk of a global OTT streaming service.

https://www.ft.com/content/a818f21c-10f3-444b-8f10-3b531e11352b