Tubeless road - it actually works

Underpinner · 30-03-2021 10:53am

I've been using G-One Tubeless for about 18 months. I've had to replace the back tyre in the last couple of weeks. I'd say it had somewhere short of 6k on it, a 30mm tyre. It began to have an increasing number of puntuctures, all of which sealed - except for one, which needed a plug. The front tyre is still going. I replaced the back with a G-One speed Evolution tyre which is TLE - tubeless easy. Like a lot of people I've struggled to mount tubless tyres but this one went on as easy as a rim brake tyre. It popped at 60psi on an ordinary track pump. Tubeless Nirvana.

I really like G-Ones though the variety of them is confusing. I've Pro-One tublesss on another bike really like them but they would not be as robust as G-Ones. Like yourself I don't do a massive amount of off road but I would recommend the G-Ones.

Resoguy · 01-04-2021 10:18pm

Effects wrote: »

I'm looking at replacing the tubeless tyres that came with my Giant gravel bike. They were working fine until Christmas, I got a new track pump, and inflated to 70psi, with a recommended 75psi on the tyre.
Ended up getting a big bubble, and due to it being Christmas, I just used some duck tape on it. Got a few decent cycles in over the period.
Few more bubbles popped up, but as I wasn't cycling a lot due to lockdown, I didn't worry about them too much.

Anyway, one of them popped at the weekend, and sealant plugged it up thankfully. Not a good long term solution though.
What do people recommend to replace them with?
I'm thinking PANARACER GRAVEL KING or CONTINENTAL Terra Speed ProTection Cross/Gravel Tyre.
I have Schwalbe G-Ones on a bike I keep abroad, but they came with tubes, and I've had multiple punctures on them.

I don't do a massive amount off road, as I'm based in Dublin city, but want something that's still capable when I cycle by road to get somewhere to go offroad.

I have a set of 37mm WTB Riddler tyres on since last September and haven't had a problem, centre thread is wearing a little more than I'd like maybe, they are light enough so are working out as a good allrounder for road and trails. I'm about 85kgs on a good day and would use ~40psi(front)/45psi(back) tubeless for a road only spin or 25/30psi for mixed road/trail spin, not sure I could hack 70psi now.

I have a set of 38mm slick GravelKing Plus tyres which i'd use if I was going to do a long road spin/audax, they can take a bit of punishment on trials also.

fat bloke · 12-04-2021 1:53pm

I've been idly googling sealant use in tubular tyres. Has anyone here any experience of that? With tubs gone out of fashion there can be great deals on wheels and tyres. I wonder if they're a viable alternative?

aidan61 · 13-04-2021 8:16am

fat bloke wrote: »

I've been idly googling sealant use in tubular tyres. Has anyone here any experience of that? With tubs gone out of fashion there can be great deals on wheels and tyres. I wonder if they're a viable alternative?

A set of Zipp 404 Tubs is what you need?

Rogue-Trooper · 08-06-2021 10:13pm

Was out yesterday struggling up an incline and heard the unmistakable sound of a tubeless puncture on the front and the fst-fst-fst of the sealant struggling to seal the hole as the wheel rotated. I figured I had better stop and see if it needed to be plugged before I lost too much pressure and coated my frame in sticky white goop.

Do you think I could find the hole though? Nope. Examined every inch of the tyre and no sign of a hole or escaping sealant. There was a bit of a headwind so thought it might have been a trick of the wind and it was coming from the rear wheel. Nope, no sign.

Gave up and got back on the bike to head off again but the fst-fst-fst noise started again before I started moving..........only to realise it was in fact a guy at the side of the house I was stopped outside washing his car with a power washer.........I didn't have a puncture at all.........I do, however, need my hearing tested.........:o:o

DJB030244 · 09-06-2021 9:15am

Decided to put a set of mavic 28mm tubeless tyres onto hunt aero 38 carbon wheels yesterday
The easiest set of tubeless tyres I’ve ever fitted . Tyres easily on and went up first time
I use a lifeline Airblast tubeless pump and it was painless . I’ve probably done over twenty sets of tubeless on gravel cx or road . Checked pressure this morning and it’s perfect
Sometimes the tyre and wheel combo work really well together .

harringtonp · 09-06-2021 9:25am

True. The last 2 tires I've fitted on my Carbon 50mm rims have been Contintental 5000 TL. They are harder to put on than Schwalbe Pro Ones but unlike the Pro Ones I've been able to just pump the straight up without using the chamber.

fat bloke · 09-06-2021 10:37am

This flashed up on my suggested reading today

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/the-unfortunate-incident-of-the-failing-tubeless-tyre-sealant

It fairly accurately describes my tubeless experience - that they're great until they're not.

Is this tubeless revolution a fait accompli now or what can the it-ain't-broke-stop-tryin'-to-fix-its do for themselves? Have tube manufacturers anything to say about it? When shopping for a set of wheels now, when you filter out for rim brake only, and then remove the "TL's" and the "TLR's" there's precious little left and even less again in stock. Are wheel and tyre manufacturers all on this one, same page now and driving forward with the demise of the tried and tested wheel+tube+tyre fit by hand system that has been shown to work for years and years now?

I've salted away a little buffer / bunker for myself the last few years, I've bikes, wheelsets, tyres and tubes to do me for a lot of cycling to come, but I do wonder if it's an inevitability, or will disgruntled end-users call a halt at some stage?

magicbastarder · 09-06-2021 10:53am

i thought TLR meant 'tubeless ready', thus compatible with both tubes and tubeless systems?

i bought my first TLR tyre the other day and it explicitly says on the box that they can be run with tubes.

fat bloke · 09-06-2021 11:56am

magicbastarder wrote: »

i thought TLR meant 'tubeless ready', thus compatible with both tubes and tubeless systems?

i bought my first TLR tyre the other day and it explicitly says on the box that they can be run with tubes.

Absolutely that's what it means, but in practice in my experience it can mean the worst of both worlds, trying to keep a foot in both camps. Difficult to mount for tubed use, difficult to mount and seal for tubeless use. Why the hell works anyone want both? It's like Heineken supplying a shot of pure alcohol with their 0% cans, in case anyone works like to throw it in. Making your tubeless system tube compatible is a admission of the flaws in your system right from the off

.

who_ru · 11-06-2021 4:02pm

harringtonp wrote: »

True. The last 2 tires I've fitted on my Carbon 50mm rims have been Contintental 5000 TL. They are harder to put on than Schwalbe Pro Ones but unlike the Pro Ones I've been able to just pump the straight up without using the chamber.

i will be attempting to mount GP5000 TL to a set of parcours wheels next week. I have already taken the tires out of the box and stretched them a little, just letting them hang and take a bit of shape before trying to mount them.

i bought a tire bead jack just in case but good to hear they popped on with the pump first time.

the wheels will come with tubeless tape and valves but this will need to be applied by myself first.

hoping for no hiccups.

68 lost souls · 11-06-2021 4:23pm

who_ru wrote: »

i will be attempting to mount GP5000 TL to a set of parcours wheels next week. I have already taken the tires out of the box and stretched them a little, just letting them hang and take a bit of shape before trying to mount them.

i bought a tire bead jack just in case but good to hear they popped on with the pump first time.

the wheels will come with tubeless tape and valves but this will need to be applied by myself first.

hoping for no hiccups.

Tubeless GP5000 on fulcrum racing 3s here and I just had the core removed and used a track pump sealed right up no problems with two different pairs.

harringtonp · 26-06-2021 9:11pm

A question guys. Do you generally manage to get a good airtight seal without sealant ?

I have before but my latest tyre change loses pressure after a few hours. I haven't yet added sealant.

andy69 · 27-06-2021 12:02pm

harringtonp wrote: »

A question guys. Do you generally manage to get a good airtight seal without sealant ?

I have before but my latest tyre change loses pressure after a few hours. I haven't yet added sealant.

Yep I had that too - initially when I was setting up the new wheels I had no sealant in them while I was just sort of messing around with them to see what'd happen and they were losing pressure withing a couple of hours alright

who_ru · 27-06-2021 10:43pm

i fitted the 2 conti GPs TL to a set of wheels this week, fitted the tape and valves first, all set.

front tire was hard to get on but i made hard work of it, with that experience in mind the back tire went on relatively easily, with the aid of a tire bead jack i might add. the key is to keep pinching the tire all the way round, or pulling the tire up is another way of putting it, pulling it up so that both beads are centered in the rim, don't tighten the valve fully after installing it, you will need to push it up a few mill to allow the bead to sit in correctly.

With the beads centered correctly, the air from the pump will push them out and onto the rim. i inflated both tires with a track pump, i didn't hear a 'pop pop' sound on the front but did on the back. neither tire lost pressure after inflating. after about 30mins i deflated both, put in about 50-60ml doc blue sealant through the valve core, and inflated again to about 80psi. i left them overnight.

came back the next day and both rock solid. before putting them on the bike, and after getting advice from a guy in the LBS, i deflated both again, inflated the front to 60psi and the rear to 65psi. went for a spin yesterday and today. i reckon i could go with less pressure in both, i might try 55psi front and 60psi rear.

i must say the the internal rim width of the wheels helps being 22.5mm, makes it easier to get 28c tires on. make sure you get the longest set of tubeless valves you can get if your wheels have deep rims.

who_ru · 27-06-2021 10:49pm

harringtonp wrote: »

A question guys. Do you generally manage to get a good airtight seal without sealant ?

I have before but my latest tyre change loses pressure after a few hours. I haven't yet added sealant.

is the valve core fully tight? is the rubber o ring and lock nut also tight on the valve?
there are so many tire and wheel combos it's hard to know what will work well with what. did you clean the rim very well before applying new tape also? don't leave the old tape in. i would add the sealant now and get it all around the rim - it should stop the pressure loss if it isn't that big a loss.

harringtonp · 28-06-2021 11:01pm

andy69 wrote: »

Yep I had that too - initially when I was setting up the new wheels I had no sealant in them while I was just sort of messing around with them to see what'd happen and they were losing pressure withing a couple of hours alright

Did the sealant sort it for you ?

harringtonp · 28-06-2021 11:06pm

who_ru wrote: »

is the valve core fully tight? is the rubber o ring and lock nut also tight on the valve?
there are so many tire and wheel combos it's hard to know what will work well with what. did you clean the rim very well before applying new tape also? don't leave the old tape in. i would add the sealant now and get it all around the rim - it should stop the pressure loss if it isn't that big a loss.

Tightened lock nut with pliers so its very tight. Hadn't thought particularly about core, will double check that now. Failing that I may try a new valve. In the past most leakages for me have been valved related.

Replaced tape and cleaned rims with white spirit, was a a real PITA. On videos you get the impression its done quickly but it took quite some time to remove the grime.

I could add sealant but I've managed to have this rim/tyre combo hold pressure before without it so was trying to replicate this before pouring in.

andy69 · 30-06-2021 9:41am

harringtonp wrote: »

Did the sealant sort it for you ?

yes, once I put the sealant into the tyres and rolled them round while deflated, pumped them and bounced them around a little and shook them etc to 'spread' the sealant into any little nooks and crannys - after that they held their pressure as expected (i.e. they lose a little bit of air each week, but nothing major)

harringtonp · 03-07-2021 7:33pm

andy69 wrote: »

yes, once I put the sealant into the tyres and rolled them round while deflated, pumped them and bounced them around a little and shook them etc to 'spread' the sealant into any little nooks and crannys - after that they held their pressure as expected (i.e. they lose a little bit of air each week, but nothing major)

By making the removable valve part and valve locking really tight I got it to a point where it was losing only a small amount of pressure over several hours. So I could be confident of it staying up on a long spin.

Then added the sealant and it now holds pressure overnight. Suppose point for me is its worth trying to get the tire holding as much pressure as possible before adding sealant.

RobertFoster · 18-07-2021 6:29pm

I just noticed the (supplied) Yksion Pro tyres on my Mavic Ksyrium Elites looking a bit worse for wear.

Anyone any recommendations for replacements? Not too keen on GP5000 if they're anything like the normal version.

ratracer · 18-07-2021 10:47pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117628811#Comment_117628811

I went with Hutchinson Fusion and think they’re great. Easy to fit and seal in my Ksyrium Elites.

griffin100 · 22-07-2021 5:43pm

I got my LBS to put GP500’s on for me when the bike was being serviced last week. I’ve ridden it a few times since then and the front tyre is holding pressure no problem but the rear tyre is loosing about 30psi over a 3hr cycle. Is there something I can do to fix this easily without dropping back to the shop?

CantGetNoSleep · 23-07-2021 7:11pm

What would people recommend as a tubeless rim braked wheelset in the 500€ range these days?

Im running disk brakes on all my bikes but going to pick up something with rim brakes.

I'd like something ideally around 40mm deep but flexible by about 10mm either way, not too heavy, all black if possible purely for asthetic reasons

harringtonp · 12-09-2021 7:05pm

Guys. Has anyone else found that skids on tubeless tyres destroy them ?

Had to lock rear wheel hard in C2D last Saturday and lost a chunk of rubber 4cm long and 2cm wide. I was able to finish out but binned the tyre after.

It was a Continental and only on the bike 4 months. It replaced another Continental after heavy braking and a skid on a club spin back in May. Again this tyre lost a chunk of rubber after that incident and had only seen a few months use (and wasn't otherwise worn)

Thing is I don't ever remember having these issues with tubed tyres. You could lock and skid and while never good for a tyre you didn't loose a huge chunk of rubber.

who_ru · 12-09-2021 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647965#Comment_117647965

try the valve core, you'll need a small tool to tighten it, i lost pressure in a tubeless set up this way in the past. your LBS will have the tool, it's very inexpensive. other than that ask the LBS how much sealant they put in. 50-60ml is more than enough.

who_ru · 12-09-2021 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881781#Comment_117881781

i haven't had a wheel lock up on me, i'm usually pretty cagey when it comes to braking, it must have been something unexpected in your case that required the heavy braking.

harringtonp · 12-09-2021 9:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881954#Comment_117881954

Big feckin crash. No choice in matter. Came down on guy in front of me but had scrubbed most of the speed at that point

CantGetNoSleep · 18-09-2021 9:43am

I've failed with a tubeless installation for the first time - leaving it for a few days to rebuild my stock of patience (and let the thumbs recover).

Mavic Cosmic Pro Carbon UST wheels. Front tire went on easily with just one press with a lever on the final bit (Schwalbe Pro One - new type) but not even close to seating with a tubeless pump. Possibly an issue with the rim tape or valve, will try reapplying tubeless tape (first attempt at that) and go again. Rear tire (Schwalbe Pro One - old type) won't go on the rim at all no matter what I've tried (pushing it into the rim bed, soapy water, tire levers). Gave up after an hour, might try again and hope that the tire sitting on the rim for a day or two will help, otherwise take it off entirely and start again from scratch.

fat bloke · 18-09-2021 10:41am

This is a very long thread based on whether a wheel tyre system works or not. :)

Are we any closer to a consensus with regard to whether, or how well, they truly "actually work"??

harringtonp · 18-09-2021 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907264#Comment_117907264

Will never get there. They work for some but not others. Some rim/tyre combos work well but others suck. A lot comes down to luck....

I'm not aware of a site anywhere (there should be one) which documents all combinations. Something like https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/ for tubeless

CantGetNoSleep · 26-09-2021 8:53am

I'm a big tubeless fan but the above combination (Mavic Cosmic and Schwalbe Pro One - old type) just won't work. I have the older Schwalbe's on three wheelsets already, two of them installed myself, but I just couldn't get it onto the rim no matter how much soap / levers / pushing into the rim bed I tried. Even getting the tire off the rim again on the second side took a lot of effort and more force than you would feel comfortable using on carbon rims.

I considered taking it to my bike shop but then felt I'd never get the tire on or off on the roadside if I ever needed to. Will just try a different tire combo

CantGetNoSleep · 19-10-2021 9:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940484#Comment_117940484

So the curse of this wheelset continues. After failing with the old Schwalbe Pro Ones, I tried the newer version which went on easily. Although I realised after seating and inflating that the tire had a puncture. It might have sealed when I added sealant but I said while I had all gear out I'd remove it and replace or repair. It seated so well however that there is no way it is coming off the rim - impossible to get a tire lever or anything under it. A screwdriver would probably work but it would also damage the rim. The main technique online when this happens seems to be to stand on the tire but this is much easier with a 55mm MTB tire than a 25mm road. I've even cut open the tire in frustration but the bead is still sticking to the rim. Back to square one

byrnem31 · 20-10-2021 6:57am

Reading these comments has made me glad i went back to tubed. I have a set of continental 4 seasons 32s that i run at 70psi. No punctures for a year and almost zero maintenance.

Fighting Tao · 20-10-2021 7:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045048#Comment_118045048

You could always buy a new bike when you get a puncture. It’s the done thing around here.

fat bloke · 20-10-2021 9:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045048#Comment_118045048

How ridiculous is that like, in fairness? Wheel and tyre manufacturers hang your heads in shame. That's product-unfit-for-purpose territory.

byrnem31 · 20-10-2021 1:42pm

The carbon aero hunt 33s i have are not compatible with tubeless gp 5000s. There have been know issues in where people were not aware of this and stuck them on only for the tyres to pop off when cycling. A bicycle mechanic told me tubeless is good for mtb but its too hit and miss with road bikes cause they run much higher pressures.

CantGetNoSleep · 20-10-2021 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046432#Comment_118046432

Yeah I'd agree with you. Bike mechanics is never my strong point so I can't say I didn't do anything wrong but I have fitted six or seven tubeless tires on other rims before.

I'm a big fan of tubeless so not willing to abandon it yet but I am considering just selling on these rims and trying another pair. I eventually got one side of the bead off but even the second side will require some effort to remove. I have a new tire that I can get on easily but if it is the same as this one I don't know how I'd ever get it off if I had a problem at the roadside

fat bloke · 20-10-2021 8:02pm

Well. Everything is great when it's working. It's when you have an issue that you find out how good something really is. I had a 90 euro taxi home on one spin, and a 3 km clip clop cleating home on another and that was enough for me. Sold the wheels and gave away my sealant bottles. Back to tubes and tyres again because, well because it ACTUALLY actually works. 😁

Agent Smyth · 21-10-2021 7:36am

I'm now two years using tubeless GP 5000 on DT Swiss wheels with just under 30K done across two bikes and I think there great and don't see myself going back to tubes ever

I've had 3 punctures where I had to call home for a lift, one of those is where I ran over a small rock and split the side wall and though the sealant was working and plugged the hole it wasn't able to keep the hole sealed while cycling, the other two where standard type punctures that for some reason didn't seal. I had one other mishap when the rim tape lost it's seal on the rim but I was only 10K from home and the sealant did it's job to get me home but wouldn't have lasted for to much longer

I changed my rear tyres this time last year and cycled all over winter with out a single puncture and am still puncture free up to today but when I changed the rear tyres last June I noticed three punctures on the two tyres but I don't recall noticing any loss of pressure during that time

Mileage has also improved on these tyres since I started using the GP 5000 and I presume that's because I have lost a god bit of weight over the last two years and have also dropped the pressure in the tyres down a little but from the max allowed so now I'm comfortable getting 5K from the rears and a good 9K on the front

So for me It works and it works very well compared to my experience with tubed tyres where I don't think I cycled a fortnight in the two years before changing to tubeless with out a puncture of some sort, my record was 7 Punctures in one week three of them in one day

I see now Conti have released a newer version of the GP 5000 that is now hook less compatible and according to Conti has made the fitting of the tyre a lot easier across all rims but we'll have to wait and see about that claim

gn3dr · 21-10-2021 9:08am

I run 23 mm tyres (well 22mm on front of one bike) pumped to 100 psi in the front and 110 psi rear.

Have had 2 punctures in the last 3 years and one of them looked to be a tube manufacturing issue as it gave away at a seam. The other was a stone / rock in a dirty cycle lane.

Can't say I'm cycling on good roads down here in Kerry either.

Don't see any need to go tubeless - looks like a ballache.

I assume sealant is heavier than a tube also?

CantGetNoSleep · 02-11-2021 6:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907128#Comment_117907128

About six weeks later I got the tire off these (in fairness it took about three attempts and a two week break in between to allow both hands and patience to recover). Even after cutting the tire open and getting the bead off on one side it wouldn't come off on the other and had to chip away at it with a wire cutter (not very easy on a carbon rim).

Still not sure where I went wrong - I see some posts online that these don't work, others suggesting that the new Schwalbe Pro Ones are similar to the Mavic UST standard which is supposed to make fitting tubeless easy.

Wheelset is now up for sale. Tire is in the bin and wheelset very nearly ended up there too.

For anyone else reading, I strongly advise against this combo.

byrnem31 · 04-11-2021 11:33pm

https://www.vittoria.com/us/en/bike-accessories/tire-inserts/air-liner-road

Air liners for tubeless to get you home if the puncture doesn't seal. Another gimmick. The price of them, i think ill stick with a spare tube worth a fiver.

CantGetNoSleep · 13-11-2021 5:48pm

As a change from the whinging I've been doing on here for the last few weeks:

Swapped a Schwalbe Pro One (old type) with the same tire but the new version on a set of Hunt Aero Light disc wheels today. Had been on for 2.5 years (albeit winter bike so maybe 4.5k done). One puncture that I had to patch from the inside in that time (and a second puncture now that I couldn't spot but there was a pool of sealant on my hall floor). Was surprised how much sealant was left in the tire, I keep track of it and I had last topped up over a year ago.

Old tire came off in about one minute. New tires went one in about a minute. Seated with track pump. Removed valve core and inserted sealant. Wheel back on and a max 15 minute job.

Mavic can stick their UST up their arse

Mercian Pro · 14-01-2022 12:51pm

More whinging I'm afraid. One of the lads on the club leisure spin yesterday punchured on a back road NW of Dunboyne. He had been an early advocate for tubeless and had newish Schwalbe tyres on Mavic rims. Getting the tyre off was painless enough though worryingly, there was no obvious cause for the puncture. Getting the tyre back on having inserted a tube was a nightmare and he came very close to calling for a lift home. Eventually after 35min we managed to reseat the tyre without pinching the tube and headed on for a very welcome coffee stop in the Coffee Mill in Maynooth. It was between 2 and 3 degrees while we were stopped and even the best of gear can't cope with hanging around in those temperatures.

CantGetNoSleep · 31-03-2022 9:12pm

Another frustrating one for me - Zipp 303S and Schwalbe Pro Ones (both brand new). Saw a David Arthur YouTube where he fitted them with no hassle at all, and a road cc article where they went on with just a track pump.

I've got a tubeless pump & tried the normal tricks that worked for me - remove the valve core, soap & water, fit a tube and only break the bead on one side. The tire just seems to sit in the inner channel and air leaks out all around.

philten · 01-04-2022 11:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118863140#Comment_118863140

Thats annoying, I see on schwalbe website mentions they needed a compressor/tyre booster for their tubeless tyres on zipp 303s. https://www.schwalbe.com/en/kompatibilitaet

I put pirelli p-zero on my 303s and were very easy to mount and inflate using track pump, maybe better option if you can return the scwalbes

CantGetNoSleep · 01-04-2022 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865046#Comment_118865046

Thanks - I had never seen that website, it is useful.

My local hardware store has a compressor on sale for 99 euros so I'm thinking of buying it and giving it a try

68 lost souls · 01-04-2022 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866250#Comment_118866250

Something like this could be cheaper, more compact and easier https://www.alltricks.com/F-11929-outillage/P-286190-airshot_tubeless_compressor_pump?gclid=CjwKCAjwxZqSBhAHEiwASr9n9M59JQacN5EOmcFNojUdNZGfOOdPHvEDrlDeJdCHsRigOI_XUZ0j4BoCJgEQAvD_BwE

Or perhaps a shot of a CO2 cartridge?

CantGetNoSleep · 01-04-2022 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866972#Comment_118866972

I have a pump with one of those built in (Topeak Joe Blow Booster). Normally it works but this time nothing, I've pumped it up to 160 psi on several occasions but just won't seat

Tubeless road - it actually works

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