Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

AndrewJRenko · 08-08-2021 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722681#Comment_117722681

You were complaining about not being able to get out of the cycle lane to turn off any of the side roads earlier on.

I had a look this morning, and there are breaks in the separator at EVERY junction, so it is possible to break out of the cycle lane whenever you need to.

No sign of any '10 minute delays' at the start of Carysfort either. OK, I know Sunday morning isn't peak time, but if this was the huge bottleneck that has been claimed, you'd expect to see some build up, even off peak.

buffalo · 08-08-2021 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721160#Comment_117721160

I don't understand - did people not have to reverse in or out of their driveways before the cycle lane went in? Or the cycle lane has 'forced' drivers to be arseholes now?

As an aside, when cycling/driving I'll always stop to let someone drive out of their driveway where possible, but I'd never stop to let them reverse out. Those people need to learn.

Seth Brundle · 08-08-2021 1:35pm

The cycle lane is more about removing parking than anything to do with improving cycling

In your opinion! However, why should the storage of someone's personal property be placed over the ability for some to travel in a safe and sustainable manner?

https://twitter.com/IBIKEDublin/status/1424315406119055361?s=19

Sarn · 08-08-2021 1:39pm

Perhaps I should have clarified that there is, on average, a 10 minute delay around peak time at that junction, when schools aren’t on summer holiday. I drove through there yesterday afternoon and sailed through. Unfortunately, most of our trips through there occur at peak time.

Posting a picture of a wet Sunday morning, during the summer holidays, implying that bottlenecks don’t occur at this junction is not accurate. Traffic at peak, during term time can be backed up to the previous roundabout leading to even longer delays.

Seth Brundle · 08-08-2021 1:43pm

Traffic at peak, during term time can be backed up to the previous roundabout leading to even longer delays.

That will not change while drivers continue to be pandered to and all other users e.g. kids cycling to school, are afforded no safe way to travel.

Sarn · 08-08-2021 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723450#Comment_117723450

I agree, but there needs to be balance. Public transport options going west-east across Dublin are very poor. Stillorgan Park already has segregated cycle paths, coming up to that junction, however, they are not fit for purpose. Surely there are solutions in many cases that can cater to the needs of all users, improving conditions for one group without negatively affecting another.

Thelonious Monk · 08-08-2021 2:08pm

In Spain they have things called Ciclocalles which are narrow streets 30km/h and you're not allowed overtake cyclists. Why can't they do something like that in sandymount? Would the hard pressed working class motorist stand for something like that?

AndrewJRenko · 08-08-2021 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723438#Comment_117723438

It's amazing how much of our traffic chaos is indeed down to school run traffic. We've allowed a situation to evolve over a generation from where it was routine for kids to walk or cycle to school from relatively young ages to kids being stuck in the back of an SUV because it's too dangerous to walk or cycle with all those damn SUVs around. We have more teenage girls driving themselves to school (which would be limited to those over 17 who have the resources to do their theory test, do their 12 lessons, acquire and insure a car) than cycle to school.

We really, really need to provide safe walking and cycling routes to school, like the current joined-up plan by DLR to expand the current routes.

Podge_irl · 08-08-2021 3:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723523#Comment_117723523

There hasn't been anything approaching balance in transport provision for about 50 years! These are tiny steps in the right direction

Seth Brundle · 08-08-2021 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723969#Comment_117723969

Unfortunately that in itself has fuelled the sense of entitlement amongst drivers. Obviously politicians both local and national will pander to this as much as they can so it became self-sustaining. Look at the opposition to BusConnects. Look at almost any measure that reduces the road space available to cars no matter how much benefit to society the measure would bring.

I used to be like them. I believed that as a driver who paid a large amount in motor tax each year that I had an automatic right to drive. But in reality therenis no such right and I was wrong. Drivers aren't victims, despite whet they think. They have been benefiting unfairly for years and that is gradually changing to the benefit of all.

08-08-2021 6:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723414#Comment_117723414

People could reverse and there was no difficulty, oncoming cars could drive around the reversing car as there was room. There was room for the reverser to go further across the road, straighten up and then reverse in.

Now you have half the space, you have cara coming both directions at you and could could have thirty seconds to drive across the road, straighten up, hope no one is walking behind you and then get the hell out of danger, all in all very stressful and im not surprised someone damaged their car.

Its no reflection on this persons driving ability, their lives have been made difficult and better a damaged car than being hit by oncoming traffic.

There are going to be so many accidents on this road once traffic volumes resume, such a shame as it was a perfectly safe road to cycle on and the parking that was removed was useful for the Athletics club, older people walking their dogs, families with children using the playground etc. We lost the bottle bank too, and for what, a 900 metre cycle lane running alongside a park, a cycle lane that ends at a busy junction and onto a very busy narrow local road.

08-08-2021 9:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722638#Comment_117722638

The Carysfort cycling lane hasn’t improved cycling for anyone living on the East side of the road, it’s made what used to be a nice cycle from the village a pain in the ass.

Plans for improving cycling would be free and better public transport, cycling is a minority pursuit, mostly middle aged men who can’t afford golf club subscription. You won’t get most people out of cars if the alternative is cycling so get them out of cars and onto public transport equals less cars on the road.

The anti car agenda is being driven by some local authority officials, their latest plan is to turn Stillorgan Park into a traffic jam and all the while existing cycle lanes are left in a terrible condition, really unfit for purpose as can be seen when driving on the N11.At least there are bike signs painted on the paths on the N11, in many spots there is nowhere for pedestrians to walk at all and there are way more walkers than cyclists.

Does pedestrianising bring more business, I mean apart from more take out coffee. Blackrock village was made one way and from what I can see it’s people sitting outside eating unhealthy food on street furniture that doesn’t look very clean. The shops don’t look any busier to me.

08-08-2021 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721860#Comment_117721860

Well, no, if you are turning wide into a park and into traffic exiting I don’t think that’s making anything safer.

I know these ideas probably look great on paper but actually bringing a kerb too far forward means cars are crossing the white line as they turn.

flatface · 08-08-2021 9:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117725523#Comment_117725523

I said slower, are the tighter angles not making you turn slower? You say cars are crossing the white line, are you crossing the white line on these turns in your car?

Rechuchote · 08-08-2021 11:34pm

cycling is a minority pursuit, mostly middle aged men who can’t afford golf club subscription.

That's not the people I see on the road when I'm cycling.

08-08-2021 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117725560#Comment_117725560

I don’t drive into this estate.

There isn’t room to turn because the kerb of the cycle lane is too far forward, cars can’t turn in safely the way they did since the houses were built, similar to the way I can’t cycle to my house the safe way I did for twenty five years and more.And cars can’t exit safely either as they have to come too far out beyond the cycle lane when exiting to get a clear view of oncoming traffic.

There will be so many accidents when traffic volumes return.

AndrewJRenko · 09-08-2021 12:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117725993#Comment_117725993

It's also a great reason for providing safe cycling facilities.

CramCycle · 09-08-2021 12:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722681#Comment_117722681

There is a world of things being done wrong described in this post, oddly, you don't seem to realise who is the person doing things incorrectly. Are you sure you drive anywhere, and if you do, are you sure you should if you cannot correctly identify the issue in the scenarios you have described.

09-08-2021 12:09am

Sorry, it’s a bit late now to make sense of your post.

flatface · 09-08-2021 12:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726037#Comment_117726037

So you haven’t driven this corner yourself, but yet you know for sure that it’s not built correctly to allow a safe turn.

Weepsie · 09-08-2021 12:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726037#Comment_117726037

Come further out? If there's no obstruction between the old stop lane and vehicular lanes blocking any view of the traffic. If anything it should be easier to see any traffic that may be coming, especially as the cycle lane is empty as you say?

So there are cyclists using it? And that's why cars can't see, or there are no cyclists using it as you keep claiming elsewhere and you're again making stuff up

This is a spectacular game of mental gymnastics going on here to come up with arguments against

On another thread you seem to be perfectly aware of plans that were announced for the area and surrounds, and you seem to have the ear of local councillors so I just don't buy your surprise here either.

Podge_irl · 09-08-2021 12:19am

Pretty much every single problem you have brought up is ultimately the fault of impatient and unsafe drivers.

Fighting Tao · 09-08-2021 6:51am

I honestly don’t believe that you do cycle. You haven’t given a hint of knowing about cycling the road you have been harping on about. A poster provided photos that contradict how you describe the cycle track. You have contradicted yourself at other times. Everything is from a motorists viewpoint. Even someone like me who cycles an odd time would present arguments very differently. I’d say you are just a disgruntled motorist who can’t drive as fast as you once could on that road.

Chips Lovell · 09-08-2021 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117725499#Comment_117725499

Mod Note

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09-08-2021 10:05am

I can see the turn in had been made dangerous because cars have to come around a kerb, i dont need to drive in to see it, the pedantry here is unreal and its just all an attempt to dismiss negativity caused by this cycle lane.

This is a busy junction and in a line of moving traffic you indicate and you turn, you have traffic exiting, you have oncoming traffic, you have residents ipposite the park indicating to pull in and out, you have cars turning into Avondale and exiting out of it, you have cyclists coming both ways including three year olds on scooters whose minders have let them scoot on ahead, utter stupidity.

And then you have pedestrians and schoolchildren on bikes crossing from a path inside the park gate while you have huge jeeps with not enough room to turn in.

You can moan about SUVs and landrovers all you like, people can spend their money on whatever they like and making turns into a park more difficult for them puts other road users in harms way.

There is so much going on and I dont know what normal traffic and winter is going to bring.

09-08-2021 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726402#Comment_117726402

Can you point out where I contradicted myself, I dont believe I have.

Are you teferring to Andrews photos of an empty road on a wet sunday morning.

or his photos of junctions which isnt dealing with the issue if your house isnt near a junction and you have to get out of a cycle lane and cross two lines of busy traffic to get to it.

Previously and for decades you simply cycled up the road and into your garden

And please dont accuse me of not being a cyclist, I know its difficult for you to accept other people point of view but not everyone who participates here is going to nod along with you.

AndrewJRenko · 09-08-2021 10:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726844#Comment_117726844

Is 'cars having to come round the kerb' an unusual scenario for you? Cars come round kerbs pretty much all the time, pretty much at every junction. It's honestly not that difficult, as you well know.

Your main concern is clearly that this traffic calming measure has calmed traffic. Drivers have to slow down a bit, and take a bit more care on the road. And that has obviously got up your nose for some reason.

I did that test of cycling up Carysfort on the road yesterday. Seven overtakes, not one beep, not one road rage incident, no Mad Max style attacks from the good burghers of Blackrock surprisingly enough.

This next lady gave a slightly pointed look in my direction, but no beeping, no road rage attacks.

Best overtake of the stretch was by a taxi driver, ironically enough, giving me loads of room.

Silliest overtake of the stretch was from the dickhead in the Volvo, who overtook with about 5m of space ahead before hitting the queue of backed up cars, leading to my inevitable filtering past on the inside.

Do you think you might have over-egged the 'road rage' scenario of cyclists being driven off the road just a tad?

Weepsie · 09-08-2021 11:03am

I also notice from those photos, car driving in opposing directions without issue. Funny that.

09-08-2021 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727147#Comment_117727147

Its a wet sunday morning, he does it once, I do it at least four times a week and at all times of the day.

I could equally put a camera on my bike and show cars coming too close and beeping, they would clearly go around me if they could but cant because of oncoming traffic.

Some of the locals have replaced double glazed windows with triple glazing because of heavy traffic, its difficult sometimes to talk with the noise and then Andrew posts a pic of an empty road and you say I am making things up.

Andrew has no clue of what its like to live anywhere on Carysfort Avenue, not an inkling.

MangleBadger · 09-08-2021 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726916#Comment_117726916

So you want rid of the cycle lane because of your single scenario where you want to get out of the cycle lane in the middle of the stretch to cross the road into your house. Your cycle is over, get off the bike and walk it across the road.

And every other point is the fault of aggressive drivers.

AndrewJRenko · 09-08-2021 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727147#Comment_117727147

One of the seven vehicles that overtook me was a bit pushy, causing one oncoming vehicle to hold back a bit. Others timed their overtakes correctly.

AndrewJRenko · 09-08-2021 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727261#Comment_117727261

Please do set up your camera. I'd really love to see those Carysfort Avenue road rage incidents you mention.

09-08-2021 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727265#Comment_117727265

And lift the bike over the kerb into two lanes of fast oncoming traffic, hmmm, I dont fancy my chances so no thanks.

There are houses all along that route opposite that cycle lane and you want residents to get out of their cars and onto bikes.

Your solution is to tell them to stop in the middle of a two way cycle lane, climb over a kerb and run across a busy road with a bike.

Im laughing here at your logic.

Chips Lovell · 09-08-2021 11:39am

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AndrewJRenko · 09-08-2021 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727303#Comment_117727303

Again, you seem absolutely determined to over-complicate things. It wouldn't be hard to cycle along the road in either direction to the next junction and join the cycle lane there.

Fighting Tao · 09-08-2021 11:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726916#Comment_117726916

Contradiction: Schrondinger's cars. Both reversing and not reversing at the same time.

My beliefs can only be built on what you have said in this thread, and they have not changed since I made my earlier post.

Liam O · 09-08-2021 12:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727303#Comment_117727303

How do you normally stop your bike if you are dismounting?

Seth Brundle · 09-08-2021 1:11pm

Some of the locals have replaced double glazed windows with triple glazing because of heavy traffic, its difficult sometimes to talk with the noise and then Andrew posts a pic of an empty road and you say I am making things up.

Andrew has no clue of what its like to live anywhere on Carysfort Avenue, not an inkling.

So presumably you would be in favour of closing Carysfort Ave to vehicular traffic given that yet again, you're telling us that they are the source of the issues.

Flinty997 · 09-08-2021 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117716985#Comment_117716985

No different to crossing any busy road.

I don't get the drama here.

09-08-2021 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727689#Comment_117727689

The point is there would be no need to dismount if you could cycle with traffic towards your house, most people lucky enough not to have pointless two way cycle lanes opposite their houses can do this.

Im really hoping I will be able to cycle in peace again without cars blaring horns at me. The sooner the cycling lane is removed the better, hopefully before traffic increases in volume

buffalo · 09-08-2021 1:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727872#Comment_117727872

If the traffic increases in volume, does that mean the residents will need quadruple glazing? BOOM BOOM! 🤡

09-08-2021 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727842#Comment_117727842

Dont be silly, I choose to live here because of its convenience, I have no problem with traffic, roads are designed and built to carry traffic and this road was safe to cycle on without any segregation.

Its not safe now for the reasons I have outlined and sticking a cycling lane that throws you onto busy narrow roads does nothing to encourage anybody to cycle rather than walk.

Use your thinking cap and think how much better it would have been to improve existing cycling infrastructure in the area.

That cycle lane is going to be covered in wet leaves and conkers shortly, just like it was last winter, I will be squashed up against the kerb on the opposite side of the road.

Fighting Tao · 09-08-2021 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727872#Comment_117727872

So the cycle track is pointless because it serves more than your personal driveway?

Weepsie · 09-08-2021 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727924#Comment_117727924

Why would you be squashed up against the kerb? Why wouldn't you just take the lane. It's downhill that side after all, so you'll have no problem keeping up to speed?

Once more, it went to public consultation and upgrading the existing options was not a popular choice

AndrewJRenko · 09-08-2021 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727872#Comment_117727872

The "cars blaring horns " are a figment of your imagination.

tomasrojo · 09-08-2021 2:46pm

Dublin City Council officially appealing. Not sure anyone's mentioned it yet.

https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/1424726015344058379

Larbre34 · 09-08-2021 2:55pm

Even with a public interest expedition, they'll be doing well to get a hearing in less than 12 to 18 months. And even then I think the chance of an appeal succeeding are about the same chance as the original JR failing.

It would be quicker and ultimately necessary in any case, for the Government to legislate for a subset of road development to cover cycleways of all types and provide for appropriate assessment and statutory consultation procedures. That could be achieved in a year.

09-08-2021 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117728016#Comment_117728016

Its uphill from the village and I am bored with this all now.

You have to cross a busy junction to get into the lane and then as suggested pick up your bike and run across the road to get to your house.

once again there is no room on the opposite side of the road to cycle unless like me you ignore horns blaring and cars practically touching you.

The cycle lane is empty most of the day, it goes nowhere and people choose the many off road alternatives rather than cycle on convent road or other narrow roads or Lower Carysfort Avenue.

And I am not even paid for my opinion on how not to waste public money snd how not to fix what isnt broken.

At least though we still have a two way road, Avoca legal types saw off the challenge to make their road one way, Deansgrange Road people might not succeed in not having their locality destroyed, its just desperate.

AndrewJRenko · 09-08-2021 3:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117728803#Comment_117728803

No horns blaring, and no cars nearly touching you.

Podge_irl · 09-08-2021 3:35pm

once again there is no room on the opposite side of the road to cycle unless like me you ignore horns blaring and cars practically touching you.

This remains the fault of poor driving and not the cycle lane. You should be advocating for better driver awareness of the laws and better enforcement of them, not railing against cycle lanes.

As to the cycle lane being unused, it is almost impossible to know that unless you have counters etc set up. By the very nature of their greater efficiency cycle lanes will often seem empty when transporting as many, or more people then a "busy" road.

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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