F1 2020: ROUND 16 Bahrain 2

Infoanon · 08-12-2020 11:15am

Stroll is bottom tier imho - considering the car at his use ,his preferential treatment when it comes to upgrades.

Perez has had an excellent season and has performed well all season - to quote Autosport Perez has been generally 'Brilliant '.

Stroll ,through a lot of luck, has had podiums and I doubt that I am not the only person who felt anyone other than Stroll in the racing point would have challenged for the win at Monza.

Perez outclassed Stroll last weekend - something that he has done all season.

Joeface · 08-12-2020 11:35am

I know its all only our own opinions and Strolls luck was in front runners going out , But in each case he had driven him self to be in those positions .
On Sunday he went on amazing distance on the soft tires and kept pace up enough to get him self in that positions. 42 laps on soft and then added one of the longest stints on the mediums to secure his third place . Once Ocon and Perez pounced , he was never threatened by the rest . That isnt the first time he has driven him self into good positions. No one is saying Perez isn't a better driver but Stroll is not junk either and he will improve he is 22 . He is a much better driver now than he was 2 years ago .

Stroll has had his share of bad luck , Running well in Mugello was it tyre went a F- him off into the barrier , Kvyat turned him over in Bahrain weekend one , Charles hit him in another race an put him out after he had made huge gains at the start .

And you cant just say Luck , Gasly win was Luck then , Perez win is Luck as well , Skill to get him self to back to the position at the front . Luck that Mercedes decide to just screw up every thing . If you going to paint Stroll with luck then you have to apply it to all drivers.

08-12-2020 4:49pm

I honestly think Stroll in a different (tyre) era would be a solid mid-tier driver and maybe a bit more. I bitched and criticised him plenty in the past but he's shown that when things click for him he can deliver both in the race and qualifying. A quick google shows he smashed the F3 European Championship before he came into F1 and unsurprisingly they don't use Pirelli tyres.

El_Duderino 09 · 08-12-2020 4:58pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I honestly think Stroll in a different (tyre) era would be a solid mid-tier driver and maybe a bit more. I bitched and criticised him plenty in the past but he's shown that when things click for him he can deliver both in the race and qualifying. A quick google shows he smashed the F3 European Championship before he came into F1 and unsurprisingly they don't use Pirelli tyres.

What is it about the tyres that hampers him?

Joeface · 08-12-2020 5:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly think Stroll in a different (tyre) era would be a solid mid-tier driver and maybe a bit more. I bitched and criticised him plenty in the past but he's shown that when things click for him he can deliver both in the race and qualifying. A quick google shows he smashed the F3 European Championship before he came into F1 and unsurprisingly they don't use Pirelli tyres.

the other think on his F3 time his first season he finished 4th or Fifth as well right between Charles L and Russell , The Following season in F3 he was clear winner ahead of Russell , wouldn't consider him as good as either of those but he has shown he can compete with them .

08-12-2020 5:51pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What is it about the tyres that hampers him?

The Pirellis are just far too hit and miss with their operating windows and wear patterns.
As I said in another thread, used to be drivers would spend a year in each series on their way to F1. The likes of Hamilton would win or podium each lower series then get into F1 known as the next big thing. Now in F2 (previously GP2) it takes a season to figure out the tyres in what is a spec series.
The difference from one car to another and how (not how hard) the cars work their tyres means that windows can be missed and going more steady will cause more wear. Sometimes. In some cars. On some compounds. On some track surfaces. At some temperatures.
Was it Perez the other day got the radio call telling him to keep up his pace (with no need to) because otherwise the tyre temperature would fall too low? Usually it's the opposite issue.
Some cars run well on the Pirellis almost everywhere, others have handling characteristics that work on some tracks but not others.
Working the tyres is a skill no doubt but we've seen in the past at Singapore for example that even Mercedes weren't able to figure it out. 2015 they were 1.5 seconds a lap off pole. Which is just ridiculous.

08-12-2020 5:58pm

Joeface wrote: »

the other think on his F3 time his first season he finished 4th or Fifth as well right between Charles L and Russell , The Following season in F3 he was clear winner ahead of Russell , wouldn't consider him as good as either of those but he has shown he can compete with them .

I think with the tyres being such a massive factor nowadays that F1 is still the top /elite level but as well as that it (and the feeder series to an extent) are almost separate from the other classes.
And to be clear, I'm not suggesting for a second that Hamilton wouldn't be top level in any era. And Russell appears to be a generational talent already.

Top Dog · 08-12-2020 10:36pm

Joeface wrote: »

Top third - Hamilton, Riccardo, LeClerc, Verstappen,
Middle third - Stroll, Gasly, Sainz, Norris, Bottas, Ocon, Vettel, Perez ,Russell, (Kvyat)
Bottom third -( Kvyat) ,Albon ,Magnusson Giovanazzi, Raikkonen, Grojean, Lattiffi

Stroll is not bottom tier , he has 2 podiums this year and a Pole which was just all him . He good , just all the flack from the Perez handling and team buy out by dad isn't helping him
I think we are running away with ourselves a bit . Yes Russell is very very good. But he has only had one weekend in the best car

Well a third of 20 is 6 + 7 + 7 to be most balanced. 4 is not near a third and neither is 9.

So that's part of why I put George in the top third, and the reason Vettel escaped the bottom third.

H8GHOTI · 09-12-2020 12:34am

https://youtu.be/W6iZsl1gnDU&t=11m46s

Anyone watch these onboards? Towards the end Bottas’ engineer comes on the radio & tells him “Perez P1, with hard tyres that were 2 laps older than yours”. Strange comment I thought. Then he says “I think we need to be a lot better than this”. The way he said it, didn’t sound like he was on about the team and the pit stop mistake. More like he was having a go off Bottas.

H8GHOTI · 09-12-2020 12:44am

https://youtu.be/eglCFzxWg6U

This is Russells race highlights. It’s got radio of him asking where certain buttons are etc... He done well considering. Shows his overtake on Bottas too. Nice move.

Charlie-Bravo · 09-12-2020 1:33am

Yeah, radio for Russell is a bit of an eye-opener. Imagine if we were a few years back where the engineers couldn't coach the drivers during the race. Russell would be really hampered.

H3llR4iser · 09-12-2020 3:02am

astrofluff wrote: »

Yeah, radio for Russell is a bit of an eye-opener. Imagine if we were a few years back where the engineers couldn't coach the drivers during the race. Russell would be really hampered.

That is it - while it's understandable some people are getting irked with all the praise around Russel, he was basically driving a car he doesn't know, which is very different compared to his Williams, in which he didn't fit properly AND with a three years old seat which also must have been rather uncomfortable (George is only 22, and was 19 when he had that seat moulded...there is simply no way he's the exact same shape). He had to ask more than once how to perform procedures and activate profiles and modes.

And yet, during the race could as well have been Hamilton in the car. Same difference in pace compared to Bottas, same controlled demeanor keeping him at bay any time he tried to cut the gap.

H8GHOTI wrote: »

https://youtu.be/W6iZsl1gnDU&t=11m46s

Anyone watch these onboards? Towards the end Bottas’ engineer comes on the radio & tells him “Perez P1, with hard tyres that were 2 laps older than yours”. Strange comment I thought. Then he says “I think we need to be a lot better than this”. The way he said it, didn’t sound like he was on about the team and the pit stop mistake. More like he was having a go off Bottas.

Bit weird, probably some frustration by his engineer who was likely expecting a cruise to victory; Also, the rubbish about the Mercedes being "unable to work well in traffic" is getting so damn stupid by now that it's basically at joke level. Hamilton cut through the field in Monza. Russell made it clear the W11 can overtake with very little trouble. Bottas was stuck in traffic on both occasions.

And yet, Valterri is NOT terrible, not at all actually. He's phenomenally quick in qualifying, often beating Hamilton (a guy with 98 pole positions). And he's usually solid race day as well, only...just missing that little bit to take the fight to Lewis. And the fact he seems to struggle so much in traffic is a mystery.

I'm sure it's the perfect situation for Mercedes, 'cause Bottas plays the "wingman" role without too much fuss, but must be extremely frustrating for him; Doubly so with the Russell situation now. Valterri would be able to comfortably win multiple WDCs in the Mercedes, if he was the #1 driver with a more modest second next to him. But he's unlucky enough to have Hamilton as a team mate...and when that one opportunity to lead arose, Mercedes decided to test out Russell, fully knowing his immense potential.

Had the team decided to put Vandoorne in the car, we'd be commenting an easy, possibily boring "hat trick" by Bottas, without drama nor incidents (the "monumental fcuk up" wouldn't have happened with the cars a bit further apart), but no - poor Valterri can't be THAT lucky.

Burkie1203 · 09-12-2020 7:21am

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And he's usually solid race day as well, only...just missing that little bit to take the fight to Lewis.

The little bit being balls.

Was it Portimao He was nearly scraping the pit wall he had pulled over so far to the right to avoid a fight with Hamilton. Rosberg would not have giving Hamilton the racing line there.

Gaoth Laidir · 09-12-2020 8:21am

I really hope Bottas does well this weekend to shut up some posters here. Totally biased against him, regardless of the outside influences against him.

flazio · 09-12-2020 9:04am

It's mainly the AntiHams that are upset that Bottas didn't turn into the pain in Hamiltons side that Nico Rosberg was in 2016.
Me personally, I think had Rosberg stayed in 2017 to defend his title, Vettel would have won that year or at the very least Ferrari would nab the constructors because Mercedes-Benz would have been a very dog eat dog team.

klose · 09-12-2020 9:45am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The little bit being balls.

Was it Portimao He was nearly scraping the pit wall he had pulled over so far to the right to avoid a fight with Hamilton. Rosberg would not have giving Hamilton the racing line there.

Yeah, he pulled into all the flaked off rubber and all which is bad for his tyre management for the race too.

El_Duderino 09 · 09-12-2020 2:40pm

astrofluff wrote: »

Yeah, radio for Russell is a bit of an eye-opener. Imagine if we were a few years back where the engineers couldn't coach the drivers during the race. Russell would be really hampered.

Yeah I'd have to agree. Anyone thinking its as simple as hopping in the car and putting in a top performance in one weekend is overlooking all the nuance that goes into doing a top drive. Having to think about every steering adjustment instead of it being instinct. As good as he was at the weekend, you have to assume he has even more to offer if he had a whole preseason to get used to the car.

In some ways, the misfortune only adds to his popularity. I think anyone with a soul will hope he gets another drive and a chance to win. I'll be cheering for him even louder because of his poor luck.

Charlie-Bravo · 09-12-2020 3:16pm

Any word on Hamilton being able to race this weekend?

ELM327 · 09-12-2020 3:27pm

I'd expect that if he were going to race it would have been announced by now tbh.

Infoanon · 09-12-2020 3:54pm

While F1 are always capable of doing the unexpected, the chances of Lewis competing this weekend are close to zero.

Without a negative test Hamilton cannot leave Bahrain, even then he would need special exemptions to travel into Abu Dhabi and even then a 48 hour quarantining.

The optics of the Abu Dhabi authorities giving an F1 superstar an exemption is so bad that it is highly unlikely to happen.

Anything is possible in F1 though. ...

pjohnson · 09-12-2020 4:41pm

Russell has been listed on the Abu Dhabi media briefing kit as Mercedes but the team are refusing to confirm if he will race.

Shwartzman's planned FP1 at Haas is cancelled with Schumacher instead replacing Magnussen

Harika · 09-12-2020 7:44pm

Infoanon wrote: »

The optics of the Abu Dhabi authorities giving an F1 superstar an exemption is so bad that it is highly unlikely to happen.

Anything is possible in F1 though. ...

Abu Dhabi is well known for respecting their law, obiding rules and trying to be a sparkling light for their people. Don't think they give a cent about doing something please the dollar

Gaoth Laidir · 10-12-2020 4:47pm

The mother of all f*ckups, word for word, as it happened.

Gaoth Laidir · 10-12-2020 8:12pm

A detailed and honest dissection of the Sakhir GP by James Allison here. Well worth a watch. Goes into a lot of detail on the strategy and what exactly went wrong with the pit stops. He also goes into detail on Valtteri's two slow starts at both races. The first (against Hamilton) was down to poor grip in that grid position and the second (against Russell) was down to a marginally slower reaction time. In both cases the clutches were deployed equally by all drivers.

https://motorsport.tv/embed/TxEENVWC-the-double-stack-pit-stop-explained-2020-sakhir-gp-f1-race-debrief?autoplay

F1 2020: ROUND 16 Bahrain 2

Comments