2021 Masters 10/01/21 -17/01/21

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 11:54am

TheW1zard wrote: »

Ha i get that reference but what happened to Maguire!?

Wasnt meaning to infer anything actually happened, it's what didnt happen is more the thing. I've always liked maguire but it's fairly clear he never had the discipline or temperament to be up there with the best.

16-01-2021 2:25pm

Mon Yan!!

16-01-2021 2:55pm

Frame1 - the best, and most chances to Bingham; but he had two (red, and blue) to middle pockets, where he tried to force them in - both hit knuckles, and ultimately left Yan in when there wasn't many reds left. Yan gets as far as green and misses leaving Ballrun in needing all the colours.

And Bingham clears up to take the opener... Yan missed an opportunity there unfortunately for him and his fans. Early days though. If Yan had won that, I think it might have got to Stuart..

DelBoy Trotter · 16-01-2021 3:13pm

Nice break by Yan to take the second frame

Arthur Daley · 16-01-2021 3:16pm

Bingtao looks like a man on a mission in this tournament. The clearance at 5-5 yesterday impressed.

DelBoy Trotter · 16-01-2021 3:21pm

Bingham is dire so far in this match

Inviere · 16-01-2021 3:54pm

DelBoy Trotter wrote: »

Bingham is dire so far in this match

Yeah not really a fan myself. Nothing against him at all, he comes across fairly well....I just don't seem to enjoy watching him playing. Can't quite put my finger on it, & I always feel bad for saying that about a player when there's no real reason to...but yeah, hoping for Yan to wake up here.

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 4:01pm

For some reason that claw bridge hand of ballruns really bothers me, just looks wrong for some reason. But nothing against him personally, seems an alright chap.

waynescales1 · 16-01-2021 4:26pm

I agree with the fact that a lot of players don’t pay enough attention to the mental side of the game. But then you have the example of Mark Williams. Sightright / technical adjustments saved his career. He would never ever have won a third WC without those changes.

Perhaps the moral of the story is, if a player is tinkering with their technique and still not seeing consistent results, it’s time to look at other factors.

Totally agree with player’s physique/health. The likes of Allen, Murphy and Higgins need to get their act together.

newmember2 · 16-01-2021 4:40pm

waynescales1 wrote: »

...Totally agree with player’s physique/health. The likes of Allen, Murphy and Higgins need to get their act together.

apt username

weemcd · 16-01-2021 4:53pm

Mark Allen looks so unhealthy, he's two years older than me but it would look more like ten, and a bad ten at that. Ronnie is twelve years older than him and looks much younger.

Murphy is probably the heaviest of them all, but he doesn't look quite as unhealthy as Allen.

gormdubhgorm · 16-01-2021 5:11pm

zuutroy wrote: »

He was around!

Bad phrasing what I meant to say was that if he was around in his 40s back then 98-05 and had developed like he has now in his later years, would he have won more. Late bloomer.

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 5:24pm

Theres a lot of late bloomers around in recent years, guys like Anthony Hamilton, Mark Davis, Michael Holt and others all winning titles in their 40s. Question is why is this so? Why is average age of top 16 closer to 40 than 30 and has been rising steadily for years. Ask why didnt these players win more during their peak years. Are they all that so much better now and winning in a supposedly more competitive era or is it more to do with a lack of competition from the younger generation? Davis and hendry both had to cope with a glut of young talent coming at them from all sides, its no wonder hendry "declined" given what the 90s generation threw up. The past 10-15 years have been remarkably barren in terms of emerging talent, judd, kyren and after that lisowski and the chinese guys. Its not much. We're lucky that judd finally did come through when he did, because i don't see a huge number coming up behind him.

waynescales1 · 16-01-2021 5:38pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Theres a lot of late bloomers around in recent years, guys like Anthony Hamilton, Mark Davis, Michael Holt and others all winning titles in their 40s. Question is why is this so? Why is average age of top 16 closer to 40 than 30 and has been rising steadily for years. Ask why didnt these players win more during their peak years. Are they all that so much better now and winning in a supposedly more competitive era or is it more to do with a lack of competition from the younger generation? Davis and hendry both had to cope with a glut of young talent coming at them from all sides, its no wonder hendry "declined" given what the 90s generation threw up. The past 10-15 years have been remarkably barren in terms of emerging talent, judd, kyren and after that lisowski and the chinese guys. Its not much. We're lucky that judd finally did come through when he did, because i don't see a huge number coming up behind him.

All the younger players want to do is pot balls and score. No interest in matchplay, or the tactical side of the game. Probably more to it than that but seems a huge factor to me.

Studd made an interesting point in commentary about how a lot of the current top players began as heavy scorers and learned the tactical side of the game later, only then going on to win lots of titles, Judd Trump being the obvious example. But Bingtao seems to be going about things backwards, very tactically aware and only 20. Doesn’t score heavily, before this week his highest ever break was only 136 I think.

Dante7 · 16-01-2021 5:39pm

I've gone right off Bingham as a person recently, especially over his comments about his big beef with Shaun Murphy. I know Murph can be a bit marmite, but apparently Bingham's whole problem with him is that Murph made an excuse after the 2015 World's about having back pain. That's it. That's just childish petulence.

https://twitter.com/Stuart__Bingham/status/1349996869817167875?s=20

gormdubhgorm · 16-01-2021 5:42pm

weemcd wrote: »

Mark Allen looks so unhealthy, he's two years older than me but it would look more like ten, and a bad ten at that. Ronnie is twelve years older than him and looks much younger.

Murphy is probably the heaviest of them all, but he doesn't look quite as unhealthy as Allen.

I would say most snooker players have fairly sedentary lifestyle. It is an interesting point about getting in better shape. I am surprised more have not followed Ronnie's example. Am not saying that they have to be as intense. But if you are fitter and healthier - surely it means you feel fatigued less even mentally? Plus sharper as a result.

The Nal · 16-01-2021 5:44pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Theres a lot of late bloomers around in recent years, guys like Anthony Hamilton, Mark Davis, Michael Holt and others all winning titles in their 40s. Question is why is this so? Why is average age of top 16 closer to 40 than 30 and has been rising steadily for years.

After it dropped dramatically in the 80s. Before that players were winning and competing for titles into their later years. Ray Reardon, Terry Griffiths, John Spencer, Doug Mountjoy, John Pulman, the Davis brothers all winning and competitive well into their 40s and even 50s. Sone of them peaking in their 30s and 40s.

I think school is one huge reason. Players cant spend all day in the snooker halls anymore and sacrifice their education so they're still relatively undeveloped when they turn pro.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I would say most snooker players have fairly sedentary lifestyle. It is an interesting point about getting in better shape. I am surprised more have not followed Ronnie's example. Am not saying that they have to be as intense. But if you are fitter and healthier - surely it means you feel fatigued less even mentally? Plus sharper as a result.

It effects the physics of playing the game too. Reaching over balls, stretching for shots etc. Not as easy if theyre carrying a bit of timber. Jimmy Whites career nosedived when he started putting on a bit in the 90s. Fluency of his game was gone. I remember Virgo commenting on it when Jimmy was struggling to get up on the table and bridge over a shot.

Stephen Lees game got worse with every pound he put on.

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 5:47pm

waynescales1 wrote: »

All the younger players want to do is pot balls and score. No interest in matchplay, or the tactical side of the game. Probably more to it than that but seems a huge factor to me.

Studd made an interesting point in commentary about how a lot of the current top players began as heavy scorers and learned the tactical side of the game later, only then going on to win lots of titles, Judd Trump being the obvious example. But Bingtao seems to be going about things backwards, very tactically aware and only 20. Doesn’t score heavily, before this week his highest ever break was only 136 I think.

Good post, agree every word. Ken is very good on that subject, the difference in how he and his generation learned the craft of the game and young players now. I watch a lot of junior snooker and invariably the best potter wins, 2-3 chances per frame the most common. Took judd guts of 10 years to finally find the correct balance in his approach, a very long and testing apprenticeship! Yan is interesting, not figured him out entirely yet but still young so lots of time for him.

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 5:48pm

Dante7 wrote: »

I've gone right off Bingham as a person recently, especially over his comments about his big beef with Shaun Murphy. I know Murph can be a bit marmite, but apparently Bingham's whole problem with him is that Murph made an excuse after the 2015 World's about having back pain. That's it. That's just childish petulence.

https://twitter.com/Stuart__Bingham/status/1349996869817167875?s=20

Think there's a bit more to it than that tbh.

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 5:55pm

The Nal wrote: »

After it dropped dramatically in the 80s. Before that players were winning and competing for titles into their later years. Ray Reardon, Terry Griffiths, John Spencer, Doug Mountjoy, John Pulman, the Davis brothers all winning and competitive well into their 40s and even 50s. Sone of them peaking in their 30s and 40s.

I think school is one huge reason. Players cant spend all day in the snooker halls anymore and sacrifice their education so they're still relatively undeveloped when they turn pro

This is the nub of it i think. The average age began to drop dramatically because the games popularity was soaring and kids were taking up the game in droves. This led to the explosion in the mumber of pros in the 90s, i think at least 30-40 irish guys tried their luck on tour in early 90s alone. Then the decline set in, numbers went into freefall and thus you have correspondingly low numbers of talent coming through. The global spread has somewhat mitigated that trend.

waynescales1 · 16-01-2021 5:55pm

The Nal wrote: »

Stephen Lees game got worse with every pound he put on.

You’re right in more ways than one there.

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 6:00pm

I recall 2017 sf at the crucible, higgins v kyren wilson. The post match interviews, the younger wilson looking pale and haggard, utterly spent after a draining 2 day battle, the veteran higgins skipping in after him, looking like he'd be happy to go straight out for another session. Of course, higgins did then lose the final to a superior athlete who limbered up for the encounter by noshing a kebab at 2 o'clock the morning of the final.

16-01-2021 6:12pm

Yan's inscrutable

Dante7 · 16-01-2021 6:14pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Think there's a bit more to it than that tbh.

I thought there had to be more to it too, but I can't find anything except maybe Bingham blaming Murphy for his ban cos Shaun was on the board at the time. But that would have been totally out of Murphy's control. I think Murohy is a bit unlikeable. I always thought he was a bit aspie (am myself), and lacked certain skills etc., and his homeschooling wouldn't have helped there. But I reckon he is genuine enough and would have him over Bingham any day.

16-01-2021 6:15pm

Sublime - as good as that plant; which was far from easy, that opening red there from Yan... Hon!!!!!

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 6:23pm

Dante7 wrote: »

I thought there had to be more to it too, but I can't find anything except maybe Bingham blaming Murphy for his ban cos Shaun was on the board at the time. But that would have been totally out of Murphy's control. I think Murohy is a bit unlikeable. I always thought he was a bit aspie (am myself), and lacked certain skills etc., and his homeschooling wouldn't have helped there. But I reckon he is genuine enough and would have him over Bingham any day.

I think the ban thing might be the nub of it, whatever shaun could or couldnt do, stuart maybe felt he should be doing more for him as players rep. Hard to know exactly without more detail, but there was a feeling about shaun that he was becoming a bit too "establishment" in that role so may be something in it. Was a good thing he quit that post i think.

All speculative but throw in the back thing and the fact shaun became fairly tight with steve feeney after the latter and bingham had a very bitter and public falling out and i think you have the necessary ingredients for a decent feud.

waynescales1 · 16-01-2021 6:24pm

Bingtao showing Bingham who’s boss in the battle of the Bings.

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 6:36pm

Bit snatchy there.

newmember2 · 16-01-2021 6:43pm

This match has finally got interesting.

gormdubhgorm · 16-01-2021 6:50pm

Where is Yan from again? I don't think I heard Dennis Taylor mention it much.

Joe_ Public · 16-01-2021 6:51pm

Bingham bit ballrunny there but i dont know why yan left blue tighton cushion, gave Bingham a better chance of escape. Those shots should be minimum 3,4 inches off the cushion.

Birdnuts · 16-01-2021 7:05pm

Yan showing some balls!! Awesome performance from a mere nipper!!

Rothko · 16-01-2021 7:25pm

Really happy for Yan to get through. It's great to see a player of that age make it to a major final.

16-01-2021 8:04pm

Yan must have some Buddhist Monk about him - unflappable; as they say,,, Now COME ON DAAAVVE!! That snooker from Higgins last night was completely unexpected, and pretty close to as good as it can possibly get - he was AWEsome; but surely he can't replicate it tonight..
Come on Dave - take that maxim that the pundits falsely attribute to the nugget (yeah, they're sure he came up with it alright :rolleyes:) , and play as if it means nothing, even though,,,, etc and you've a good chance of beating John, aye

16-01-2021 8:25pm

"no.. just about"

Ken, when the red was close, and then went in,,, Oh aye........ COME ONNNN DAAAAAAVE

tanko · 16-01-2021 9:23pm

Two terrible misses by Gilbert in that frame, he should be 3-1 up.

tanko · 16-01-2021 9:54pm

The corner pockets are like buckets on this table, it takes some effort to miss a pot into them.

sligeach · 16-01-2021 10:21pm

Higgins is having all the luck tonight.

Edit: About time Gilbert got that bit of good luck.

AllForIt · 16-01-2021 10:55pm

This match is only going one way. Gilbert seems to be totally of colour mentally.

newmember2 · 16-01-2021 10:57pm

AllForIt wrote: »

This match is only going one way. Gilbert seems to be totally of colour mentally.

I wouldn't be so sure...they're not too far apart in play.

tanko · 16-01-2021 11:00pm

Another terrible shot from Gilbert, if Higgins wins this frame it's over.

AllForIt · 16-01-2021 11:03pm

newmember? wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure...they're not too far apart in play.

Don't see it happening myself. I didn't catch the beginning of the match where Gilbert got ahead early on but Higgins is looking the much more solid of the two to me.

AllForIt · 16-01-2021 11:13pm

Incidentally I notice Gilbert is wearing a wrist watch. Unusual anyone wears an old style wrist watch these days least of all when playing.

tanko · 16-01-2021 11:13pm

AllForIt wrote: »

Don't see it happening myself. I didn't catch the beginning of the match where Gilbert got ahead early on but Higgins is looking the much more solid of the two to me.

Higgins was slow to get going but Gilbert missed chances to take advantage.
That's a shocking mistake from Gilbert there, i think his head is gone now.

newmember2 · 16-01-2021 11:15pm

wow

gormdubhgorm · 16-01-2021 11:17pm

Thought that pink was tricky enough that Higgins missed, near cushion and awkward enough angle.

Crucial frame now 4-4 or 5-3 Higgins.

tanko · 16-01-2021 11:19pm

Misses by a yard and gets away with it again.

Brian? · 16-01-2021 11:20pm

tanko wrote: »

The corner pockets are like buckets on this table, it takes some effort to miss a pot into them.

Tell Higgins that after missing that pink

gormdubhgorm · 16-01-2021 11:20pm

Higgins deserves the frame after laying that snooker.

gormdubhgorm · 16-01-2021 11:22pm

Jayus Gilbert fired a great escape back, this is great stuff. Better than 100 after 100 stuff

4-4 here we go.

Will the farmer plough on?

2021 Masters 10/01/21 -17/01/21

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