Poppy

17-10-2018 10:39am

Lillian Cuddly Memoir wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

in some instances maybe, but I wold guess the majority joined for the same reason young people all over the world join up. A sense of duty, a sense of adenture, to prove themselves etc etc.

Wheety wrote: »

And what will you do? Send a strongly worded letter?

no, I'm going to rage against them (Whatever that means), despite the fact that most have been dead for a very long time.

PlaneSpeeking · 17-10-2018 10:46am

Patww79 wrote: »

Their passports should instantly be ripped to shreds as soon as they sign up. The actual Irish ones I mean.

My dad grew up in the UK and had to serve in Cyprus in the late 50s, due to national service - yet he is a proud Irishman.

Less of the judgement eh ?

yourdeadwright · 17-10-2018 10:46am

I never get the idea of Irish people wearing a poppy,
Yes Irish people died in the two wars but why not just wear a shamrock to remember them
The poppy stand for all Brits lost at war including those in Ireland and India , Why would an Irish person want to wear that symbol its stupid ,
Wear a shamrock to remember the Irish men who died if you must ,
Or like myself don't wear anything .
There is never a right side in war ,both sides have men fighting who have no choice and would prefer to be at home with there family's, If you want to remember those who died remember the men from both sides,

Ragnar Lothbrok · 17-10-2018 10:47am

Aegir wrote: »

in some instances maybe, but I wold guess the majority joined for the same reason young people all over the world join up. A sense of duty, a sense of adenture, to prove themselves etc etc.

A sense of duty to a foreign government? Very strange.

judestynes · 17-10-2018 10:57am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I think you're very much clutching at straws.

Firstly a family can't be evicted from "their" home, only from someone elses.

Secondly, penneys employing dubious labour in Bangladesh is not really on a par with fire bombing Dresden, and I think you know that full well!

Your confusing a house with a home there dude and bombing Deresden to defeat a tyranical lunatic and the people who supported him and invading a sovereign nation on trumped up allegations just to make rich men richer are worlds apart. Anyway we're miles off topic and don't call me a clown again

indioblack · 17-10-2018 10:57am

KaneToad wrote: »

To me it represents unicorns jumping through rainbows and sugarplum fairies dancing on icicles.

I was on a trip like that once.
Far out.

sbsquarepants · 17-10-2018 11:52am

judestynes wrote: »

Your confusing a house with a home there dude

Either way - if it's yours you can't be evicted from it. If it's not yours, it's not yours.

judestynes wrote: »

bombing Deresden to defeat a tyranical lunatic and the people who supported him and invading a sovereign nation on trumped up allegations just to make rich men richer are worlds apart.

At the upper ends of all armies you'll find tyrannical lunatics. Don't kid yourself that the british or American armies were or are run by gentlemen intent on protecting freedom at all costs.

History is also largely written by the victors.

Hitler is the epitome of evil because he killed 6 million jews and plunged the world into war (no argument there, he was clearly a despotic nut job)
Churchill is the brave hero who stood up to him and saved the world (Eh, what about the 3 million Bengals he starved - shhh don't mention them he was a brave hero!)

judestynes wrote: »

Anyway we're miles off topic and don't call me a clown again

Even if the big shoes fit?

Anyway back on topic - Poppies - no, not for me!

DEFTLEFTHAND · 17-10-2018 12:01pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Listening to some Fine Gael senator or something on newstalk this morning (I was still half asleep and didn't catch his name!) Anyway his point was, yes by all means we should remember "the fallen" but we should remember them by raging against the shower of bastards who sent them to their deaths, not but sentimentalising it with a poxy paper flower.

I agree with him - the whole gushing over the poppy you see these days is nothing short of disgusting. I just don't get the romanticising of war.

I'm sorry Britain, you didn't have a "glorious empire" - you raped and plundered half the world. Your history isn't anything to be proud of, quite the opposite in fact. The world doesn't look up to you with awe and respect - you are in fact a right shower of cúnts!

So, eh, no poppy for me thanks:D (unless you mean that blondie one above, there's always an exception!)

Tbh 100 yrs on from the Empire I'm glad they influenced the world. Their inventions, innovations, medicines, infrastructure, law, sports, literature, language.

It's just incredible to me how a rain sodden damp rock in the north Atlantic were so advanced.

17-10-2018 12:27pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

A sense of duty to a foreign government? Very strange.

it wasn't a foreign government in 1914 and to many, it wasn't in 1939 either. A sense of duty can also go beyond a duty to a government, it can mean a sense of duty to a cause, like the thousands from all over europe who went and fought for the Republicans in their fight against Franco's army, or those that joined to fight the evils of the Nazis.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 17-10-2018 12:35pm

Aegir wrote: »

it wasn't a foreign government in 1914 and to many, it wasn't in 1939 either. A sense of duty can also go beyond a duty to a government, it can mean a sense of duty to a cause, like the thousands from all over europe who went and fought for the Republicans in their fight against Franco's army, or those that joined to fight the evils of the Nazis.

But we were talking about current British army recruits from Ireland, and whether their choice to join the British army was any different to working for a foreign company.

I totally agree with you that a sense of duty can cover the examples you mentioned. Neither of your examples involved a direct conflict with Ireland whereby those British soldiers from Ireland would be forced to choose between their country and their obligations as a British soldier, so it's not relevant to this particular question.

17-10-2018 12:53pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

But we were talking about current British army recruits from Ireland, and whether their choice to join the British army was any different to working for a foreign company.

I totally agree with you that a sense of duty can cover the examples you mentioned. Neither of your examples involved a direct conflict with Ireland whereby those British soldiers from Ireland would be forced to choose between their country and their obligations as a British soldier, so it's not relevant to this particular question.

in the highly unlikely event that the British and Irish went to war, then I would expect them to leave and fight for their country, But lets face it, it is never going to happen, certainly not in our lifetime.

Church on Tuesday · 17-10-2018 1:11pm

Good. It's disgusting how this country has treated it's WWI dead. It's improved over the last few years but still a lot to do.

These were brave Irish men, who fought for what they thought was right and they fought for their country via an external conflict.

They deserve to be remembered.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 17-10-2018 1:17pm

Aegir wrote: »

in the highly unlikely event that the British and Irish went to war, then I would expect them to leave and fight for their country, But lets face it, it is never going to happen, certainly not in our lifetime.

From the start, I posted that it was highly unlikely.

I wonder how easy do you think is it for a serving member of the British army (or any army for that matter) on the eve of battle to suddenly announce "Oh, sorry Sir, I can't fight in your war because I'm actually going to join the other side and fight against ye."

17-10-2018 1:23pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

From the start, I posted that it was highly unlikely.

I wonder how easy do you think is it for a serving member of the British army (or any army for that matter) on the eve of battle to suddenly announce "Oh, sorry Sir, I can't fight in your war because I'm actually going to join the other side and fight against ye."

It never works like that though does it?

Sunny Disposition · 17-10-2018 1:27pm

The British army has covered up the massacres in Derry and Ballymurphy, those monsters are still free and can actually benefit from the Poppy Appeal. In these circumstances no one should support it. It is worthy to remember Irish men who got killed in WW1 but the poppy is not how it should be done.

RobbieTheRobber · 17-10-2018 1:33pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The British army has covered up the massacres in Derry and Ballymurphy, those monsters are still free and can actually benefit from the Poppy Appeal. In these circumstances no one should support it. It is worthy to remember Irish men who got killed in WW1 but the poppy is not how it should be done.

Does any of the Poppy money go to memorials for Irish ww1 war dead?

droidman123 · 17-10-2018 1:38pm

Churchill was a bigoted,racist s.cumbag so whatever he had to spout is irrelevent

Church on Tuesday · 17-10-2018 1:59pm

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Does any of the Poppy money go to memorials for Irish ww1 war dead?

The Shamrock poppy is the product of the Irish branch of the legion.

Any funds generated by that poppy stays in Ireland and goes towards the up keep of WWI memorials in the country.

Church on Tuesday · 17-10-2018 2:01pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The British army has covered up the massacres in Derry and Ballymurphy, those monsters are still free and can actually benefit from the Poppy Appeal. In these circumstances no one should support it. It is worthy to remember Irish men who got killed in WW1 but the poppy is not how it should be done.

I'm no real fan of the traditional poppy, much for the reasons you have outlined, but I don't see anything wrong with wearing a Shamrock poppy to honor our WWI dead.

Sunny Disposition · 17-10-2018 2:02pm

Ask poppy sellers if they can guarantee the money won’t go to any of the killers at Ballymurphy or Derry, or indeed to anyone who killed Irish civilians during the Troubles. It’s a fair and very important question.

Church on Tuesday · 17-10-2018 2:08pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Ask poppy sellers if they can guarantee the money won’t go to any of the killers at Ballymurphy or Derry, or indeed to anyone who killed Irish civilians during the Troubles. It’s a fair and very important question.

Absolutely that is and I fully agree with you.

My understanding is that the money generated by the Shamrock poppy stays in Ireland and towards the maintenance of WWI memorials.

Odhinn · 17-10-2018 2:10pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Ask poppy sellers if they can guarantee the money won’t go to any of the killers at Ballymurphy or Derry, or indeed to anyone who killed Irish civilians during the Troubles. It’s a fair and very important question.

....as well as Aden, Borneo, mayalasia, cyprus, palestine, kuwait, Iraq, eritrea, kenya, dutch east indies, india, burma, oman.......

WesternZulu · 17-10-2018 2:40pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Tbh 100 yrs on from the Empire I'm glad they influenced the world. Their inventions, innovations, medicines, infrastructure, law, sports, literature, language.

It's just incredible to me how a rain sodden damp rock in the north Atlantic were so advanced.

An interesting theory that I read before was that their geography was responsible for such.
Their isolation allowed for them to prosper in a way that wasn't possible in other places on the continent as it was much harder to conquer. This coupled with relatively high natural resources enabled their population to engage in activities that promoted advancement.

razorblunt · 17-10-2018 2:45pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Good. It's disgusting how this country has treated it's WWI dead. It's improved over the last few years but still a lot to do.

These were brave Irish men, who fought for what they thought was right and they fought for their country via an external conflict.

They deserve to be remembered.

The Poppy is the only way of remembering them?

It's almost as if the flimsy red piece of material on your jacket or a day in November is the only time of the year that people stop to remember "hey my family member died in a war".
FFS

weldoninhio · 17-10-2018 2:47pm

Aegir wrote: »

in the highly unlikely event that the British and Irish went to war, then I would expect them to leave and fight for their country, But lets face it, it is never going to happen, certainly not in our lifetime.

And if Brexit causes uproar in the North, will they happily go in to suppress/oppress their fellow Irishmen and women??

Ragnar Lothbrok · 17-10-2018 3:02pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

And if Brexit causes uproar in the North, will they happily go in to suppress/oppress their fellow Irishmen and women??

As they did before. Those that served in the British army in the north should never be forgiven, and should certainly not be commemorated.

Church on Tuesday · 17-10-2018 3:02pm

razorblunt wrote: »

The Poppy is the only way of remembering them?

It's almost as if folk thing the red piece of material on you jacket or a day in November is the only time of the year that people stop to remember "hey my family member died in a war".
FFS

Well I'm only really concerned about the Irish men who died in WWI, as I am an Irish man, so yeah, wearing a Shamrock poppy is one of the ways. The French,Canadians, Americans and Australians I'm sure have their ways

Attending war memorials during the year is another but mostly the education in our secondary schools and later primary school years of the Irish men who fought in WWI is the best way to honor those who died in that conflict from these shores instead of just brushing it under the carpet.

17-10-2018 3:06pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

As they did before. Those that served in the British army in the north should never be forgiven, and should certainly not be commemorated.

my understanding is that they didn't. Any Irishman in the British Army was excused form service "Over the water".

end of the road · 17-10-2018 3:08pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

My dad grew up in the UK and had to serve in Cyprus in the late 50s, due to national service - yet he is a proud Irishman.

Less of the judgement eh ?

those were different times, he had no choice. those joining the BA from ireland now most certainly do have a choice, so are not comparible to your dad who was forced to serve.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Tbh 100 yrs on from the Empire I'm glad they influenced the world. Their inventions, innovations, medicines, infrastructure, law, sports, literature, language.

It's just incredible to me how a rain sodden damp rock in the north Atlantic were so advanced.

yes, most certainly britain did brings us infrastructure among many other things for which we can be glad. however it does not get them off the many many crimes britain commited.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 17-10-2018 4:03pm

Aegir wrote: »

my understanding is that they didn't. Any Irishman in the British Army was excused form service "Over the water".

I didn't know this was the case. So I googled it.

Nothing to definitively answer the question, but I did find an article from an Irish born soldier who certainly served in the British army in the north:

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/irish-solider-in-british-army-2402268-Oct2015/

uch · 17-10-2018 4:03pm

FTA69 wrote: »

I wish people would shut up about WW1 and WW2, that’s not what the poppy commemorates.

It’s a Legion symbol that commemorates ALL soldiers in ALL conflicts and is accompanied by a giant love-in for the British armed forces. Fact.

It’s like every year people stick their fingers in their ears and start shouting la la la.

I think we should commemorate the Irish war dead, but we should have our own symbol and not latch onto a British one with loads of baggage about their colonial conflicts.

We do, it's called the Easter Lily, and you get the same fúckwittery about that aswell

weldoninhio · 17-10-2018 4:38pm

Aegir wrote: »

my understanding is that they didn't. Any Irishman in the British Army was excused form service "Over the water".

Your understanding is incorrect. I worked with a guy for a few months from Coolock who had done tours up North with the Brits, he had no say in it.

Reati · 17-10-2018 4:41pm

God has it been a year already since the last Red poppy thead? Time is flying...

TheValeyard · 17-10-2018 4:46pm

Well, we dont have the Good Friday thread anymore, so we gotta make this a good one!!

corner of hells · 17-10-2018 5:29pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

The Shamrock poppy is the product of the Irish branch of the legion.

Any funds generated by that poppy stays in Ireland and goes towards the up keep of WWI memorials in the country.

CWGC maintains memorials and graveyards as far as is practically possible.
The poppy or shamrock poppy is produced by the Royal British Legion for ex military support.

Auguste Comte · 17-10-2018 6:13pm

judestynes wrote: »

Your confusing a house with a home there dude and bombing Deresden to defeat a tyranical lunatic and the people who supported him and invading a sovereign nation on trumped up allegations just to make rich men richer are worlds apart. Anyway we're miles off topic and don't call me a clown again

I don't understand why any Irish person would want to wear a poppy to commemorate the people who done just this in recent history leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

Edgware · 17-10-2018 6:17pm

Reati wrote: »

God has it been a year already since the last Red poppy thead? Time is flying...

Next.
Does the Christmas shopping start earlier every year?

wexie · 17-10-2018 6:19pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

I don't understand why any Irish person would want to wear a poppy to commemorate the people who done just this in recent history leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

Not that I entirely disagree with the sentiment but you do know it was politicians responsible for this no?

Soldiers don't get to agree with what they are fighting for or where they are doing it, they get to go where they're told to go and do what they're told to do.

Reati · 17-10-2018 6:43pm

Edgware wrote: »

Next.
Does the Christmas shopping start earlier every year?

Yes? Don't get the relevance though. In some years. Depends on the mood of the shopper on the high Street. Market research is usually done to determine the date the season Starts.

The poppy offence/defence thread normally starts around the same time each year here though.

Auguste Comte · 17-10-2018 6:54pm

wexie wrote: »

Not that I entirely disagree with the sentiment but you do know it was politicians responsible for this no?

Soldiers don't get to agree with what they are fighting for or where they are doing it, they get to go where they're told to go and do what they're told to do.

Indeed but it is not the politicians out killing innocents its soldiers. I see no difference between the isis suicide bomber blowing himself up and taking innocent people with him or the bomber pilot who dropped his load on a wedding party. Both are happy to kill innocent men women and children because someone has told them that you should go over there and kill those people because the are a threat to your way of life and off they go.

Odhinn · 17-10-2018 7:22pm

Edgware wrote: »

Next.
Does the Christmas shopping start earlier every year?

Seems to. This "black friday" thing seems to have crossed the atlantic now as well.

Zebra3 · 17-10-2018 7:49pm

Graces7 wrote: »

27,000 Irish men served in WW2. Both those living in the UK and Irish here.

Churchill said that without them the war would not have been won; Hitler would have taken over

Many of these Irish gave their lives in the war for freedom from oppression.

Time and past time to give world wide thanks for our freedom together

Britain fought two world wars to preserve their empire.

To preserve their occupation of foreign lands.

To preserve their concentration camps.

To preserve their white supremacist regimes.

To preserve their right to plunder foreign lands.

To preserve their right to commit genocide.

Read The Road To Wigan Pier to see how much the ordinary people in Britain were despised by the ruling class.

Read about Britain's occupation of Kenya in the 1950s and then tell me Britain was fighting for freedom.

NIMAN · 17-10-2018 7:53pm

I have no issue with supporting those who fought in both world wars, but there's no way I'm going to ever be ok with the murdering bastards who gunned down innocent, unarmed civilians on Bloody Sunday.

bodhrandude · 17-10-2018 8:12pm

I tend to find the charts poppy most of the time.

Zebra3 · 17-10-2018 8:16pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I have no issue with supporting those who fought in both world wars, but there's no way I'm going to ever be ok with the murdering bastards who gunned down innocent, unarmed civilians on Bloody Sunday.

Why would you support the British terrorists who fought to supress millions across the globe?

The British establishment doesn't give a toss about anyone's freedom or human rights. It's just a convenient drum to beat when it suits them.

Look at their love for the beheaders of Saudi Arabia (which they created). Yet they get all uppity when ISIS chops someone's head off.

Look at their role in the war on Yemen.

Hypocritical scum.

citytillidie · 17-10-2018 8:56pm

https://crimesofbritain.com/

Yamanoto · 17-10-2018 8:57pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Listening to some Fine Gael senator or something on newstalk this morning (I was still half asleep and didn't catch his name!) Anyway his point was, yes by all means we should remember "the fallen" but we should remember them by raging against the shower of bastards who sent them to their deaths, not but sentimentalising it with a poxy paper flower.

I agree with him - the whole gushing over the poppy you see these days is nothing short of disgusting. I just don't get the romanticising of war.

I'm sorry Britain, you didn't have a "glorious empire" - you raped and plundered half the world. Your history isn't anything to be proud of, quite the opposite in fact. The world doesn't look up to you with awe and respect - you are in fact a right shower of cúnts!

So, eh, no poppy for me thanks:D (unless you mean that blondie one above, there's always an exception!)

You really were half asleep.

It was Eamonn McCann espousing the above position & was quite at odds with the other contributor, FG Senator Neill Richmond.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 17-10-2018 9:39pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

From the start, I posted that it was highly unlikely.

I wonder how easy do you think is it for a serving member of the British army (or any army for that matter) on the eve of battle to suddenly announce "Oh, sorry Sir, I can't fight in your war because I'm actually going to join the other side and fight against ye."

Aegir wrote: »

It never works like that though does it?

It does actually.

Company Sgt.Maj Martin Doyle VC & MM served with the Dublin Fusiliers and the Royal Munster Fusiliers during WWI.

After the war he returned home to Ireland the highest decorated soldier in the British army having been awarded the Victoria Cross and the Military Medal (for gallantry) and joined the IRA, he fought against his former comrades in the British army during our civil war.

After the civil war Coy Sgt.Maj Doyle changed sides once again and joined the national army to fight against his former comrades in the IRA.

He's buried in Grangegorman Military Cemetery (Blackhorse Ave. Dublin 7).

As a serving soldier I don't wear a poppy, but I've donated to the appeal because it helps a lot of Irish families during their hardest times.. But besides that I'd also defend another Irish persons wish to donate to the poppy appeal by wearing a poppy.

There's a lot of 'ol sh*te posted in this thread which I can't be arsed replying to but if people here REALLY wanted to donate to a similar Irish charity then there's the Fushsia Appeal 'bet yiz didn't know about that one eh!

Rubberchikken · 17-10-2018 9:42pm

Of course there'll be debate. We'd debate 2 flies here on Ah

prinzeugen · 17-10-2018 9:51pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm sorry Britain, you didn't have a "glorious empire" - you raped and plundered half the world. Your history isn't anything to be proud of, quite the opposite in fact. The world doesn't look up to you with awe and respect - you are in fact a right shower of cúnts!

So, eh, no poppy for me thanks:D (unless you mean that blondie one above, there's always an exception!)

As did the French when they were not surrendering to someone. If fact the French were and still are more imperialistic than Britain.

And the French were more barbaric than Britain ever was. France was still importing slaves into the Americas long after every other country had stopped the slave trade.

Ex British colonies are mainly civilised and developed or developing.

Ex French colonies are usually the most undeveloped and are riddled with poverty, civil wars etc.

But hey, don't let history get in the way of an anti-British rant!

Poppy

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