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Random Wrestling Thoughts (Part 2)
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Agent Coulson wrote: »
I love how she said if they want to be heard they need to be civilized
Isnt AJ also a big republican too?0 -
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I also am not a fan of some of the staples of modern wrestling. I wish the crap that happens on the ring apron never became a thing. The apron is the hardest part of a wrestling ring and Powerbombing someone on it isn't necessary. I don't want any wrestler to be hurt anywhere so I hate unnecessary risks been taken.
Spot on about the apron spots.
Sure one could argue they have a place but when it's been over-used and thus over exposed, then whats the point. As you say it's hard. Very hard.
Like, lets be honest 99% of wrestling fans will never know how hard they are and as each time they see such a spot that "factor" will get lost. Doing such a spot at a big event as mania once a year? sure. Doing it in front of 50 people in a high school gym? hell no :pac:
On the whole subject of old-school wrestling vs modern wrestling. I do miss the old. Like what happened? I get that things need to change but this much?
Take a classic Rockers match. Great way to showcase how to work and tell a story.
Jennety and Michaels were kings at it. Start the match >> go into the babyface shine >> then they loved to powder the heels. Crowd went wild... "yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah!" :pac:
heels regroup on the outside. Then back in and either work for a minute then cut them (rockers) off, then into the heat. Slow the pace down. Like a great action movie you start out strong then bring the pace down.
On that subject even heels aren't what they used to be?
when was the last time you saw a heel blatantly cheat and when the ref gives them sh*t they go "i didn't do anything mr referee. mr jim smith or what ever you name is. I go to church on sundays. Momma told me never to cheat" :pac: - then when the ref turns around they give a dirty look and half cock the hand .. then go on to the heel heat.
I cannot even tell what the heel heat is anymore in certain matches :pac: Seems everyone wants to be 50/50 and have a back and fourth match. Sure that has a place, not every single match tho.
Sure without a heat, there is no hope spot. Without a heat there is no comeback. Without a comeback how can you have a false finish. Urgh. I duuno
(for the record I am not trying to come off as a know-it-all. Just there has been something lost in translation over the years)0 -
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B.A._Baracus wrote: »Spot on about the apron spots.
Sure one could argue they have a place but when it's been over-used and thus over exposed, then whats the point. As you say it's hard. Very hard.
Like, lets be honest 99% of wrestling fans will never know how hard they are and as each time they see such a spot that "factor" will get lost. Doing such a spot at a big event as mania once a year? sure. Doing it in front of 50 people in a high school gym? hell no :pac:
On the whole subject of old-school wrestling vs modern wrestling. I do miss the old. Like what happened? I get that things need to change but this much?
Take a classic Rockers match. Great way to showcase how to work and tell a story.
Jennety and Michaels were kings at it. Start the match >> go into the babyface shine >> then they loved to powder the heels. Crowd went wild... "yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah!" :pac:
heels regroup on the outside. Then back in and either work for a minute then cut them (rockers) off, then into the heat. Slow the pace down. Like a great action movie you start out strong then bring the pace down.
On that subject even heels aren't what they used to be?
when was the last time you saw a heel blatantly cheat and when the ref gives them sh*t they go "i didn't do anything mr referee. mr jim smith or what ever you name is. I go to church on sundays. Momma told me never to cheat" :pac: - then when the ref turns around they give a dirty look and half cock the hand .. then go on to the heel heat.
I cannot even tell what the heel heat is anymore in certain matches :pac: Seems everyone wants to be 50/50 and have a back and fourth match. Sure that has a place, not every single match tho.
Sure without a heat, there is no hope spot. Without a heat there is no comeback. Without a comeback how can you have a false finish. Urgh. I duuno
(for the record I am not trying to come off as a know-it-all. Just there has been something lost in translation over the years)
Rockers would've been considered flashy and overly reliant on high spots in certain quarters during the era you're yearning for.
Literally you've laid out practically every tag match that takes place on WWE television and has done for decades. It's the same cookie cutter formula you've seen several times every week for at least 20 years. It's so formulaic that it's numbed it's audience.
That heel spot genuinely unless we are transported back 50 years into the American mid South that really isn't going to play.
You can accept that wrestling and wider culture with it has evolved or you can wish for a bygone era that had it's heyday before many of us were born or can remember.
There's things I'd change or modify in some modern wrestling but thinking an NWA nostalgia act works in 2020 isn't it.0 -
LineOfBeauty wrote: »Rockers would've been considered flashy and overly reliant on high spots in certain quarters during the era you're yearning for.
Where they?
They were a direct clone of The Rock and Roll Express. WWF's version. Based on one of the most successful tag teams of all time.
Not only that but The Rockers produced one of the biggest stars of all time being Shawn Michaels.
If you meant if they were around today would they be considered such spot monkies? ... Then Young Bucks have to be mentioned.LineOfBeauty wrote: »Literally you've laid out practically every tag match that takes place on WWE television and has done for decades. It's the same cookie cutter formula you've seen several times every week for at least 20 years. It's so formulaic that it's numbed it's audience.
yet they did it better back in the day. Perhaps its a comment on micro-management of producers or current style.
Oh and Arnie was kicking ass back in the 80s with movies and today Vin Diesel is. Still stories. (not telling a story)LineOfBeauty wrote: »That heel spot genuinely unless we are transported back 50 years into the American mid South that really isn't going to play.
Character sh*t puts more asses in seats that any athletic move. Wrestling is funny like that. The Rock sold more PPV's with his promos than his in-ring ability. Wrestling is not about the moves strangely enough.LineOfBeauty wrote: »You can accept that wrestling and wider culture with it has evolved or you can wish for a bygone era that had it's heyday before many of us were born or can remember.
There's things I'd change or modify in some modern wrestling but thinking an NWA nostalgia act works in 2020 isn't it.
I'm talking about WCCW .... one of the hottest, face-paced wrestling promotions of the 80s. Not that old school "lets do nothing" stuff tho. Have you seen WCCW?
But see that bit i put in bold? give it a few years and come back to me
- It aint about the moves baby 0 -
B.A._Baracus wrote: »Where they?
They were a direct clone of The Rock and Roll Express. WWF's version. Based on one of the most successful tag teams of all time.
Not only that but The Rockers produced one of the biggest stars of all time being Shawn Michaels.
If you meant if they were around today would they be considered such spot monkies? ... Then Young Bucks have to be mentioned.
yet they did it better back in the day. Perhaps its a comment on micro-management of producers or current style.
Oh and Arnie was kicking ass back in the 80s with movies and today Vin Diesel is. Still stories. (not telling a story)
Character sh*t puts more asses in seats that any athletic move. Wrestling is funny like that. The Rock sold more PPV's with his promos than his in-ring ability. Wrestling is not about the moves strangely enough.
I'm talking about WCCW .... one of the hottest, face-paced wrestling promotions of the 80s. Not that old school "lets do nothing" stuff tho. Have you seen WCCW?
But see that bit i put in bold? give it a few years and come back to me - It aint about the moves baby
For a first hand source Shawn talks about it in his book while they were with the AWA. Again, wrestling evolves and what's considered too flashy in the early to mid 80s isn't the same as 2020. Also I didn't say they were spot monkeys, just that some insider and outsider circles may have considered them to be exactly that, in the same way I don't consider The Young Bucks to be spot monkeys either.
But you can have more than 1 type of story. There's no one right way to lay out a tag match. Obviously you like that hot tag formula the most but there's absolutely a place for variety and innovation. Taue/Kawada vs Misawa/Kobashi 1995 is widely considered the greatest tag match ever (maybe the greatest match ever) but it doesn't follow the match layout you gave. Obviously that's an extreme point but sticking to one formula, whether it's done better or not, is mine numbing.
Never argued that story and characters is what sells tickets and ppvs and never will. When they get you in the building / in front of a TV then you want what you're watching to be good, to follow the story and to have consequences.
Yes I've seen WCCW but it loses a bit of the magic on rewatch rather than seeing it in the moment. I'm not here to bang on WCCW but everything has a time and a place. There's a ceiling on how far a guy working a dirty southern heel gimmick can go in wrestling (an even lower ceiling if he's playing it like he's working shows from the 80's). There's certainly no right way to lay out tag matches. AJPW early to mid 90s is heavily influenced by the territory American wrestling but the in ring is updated for a modern audience and you end up with probably the best tag output in wrestling history.
Anyway point ultimately being things evolve for a reason.0 -
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This is the greatest thing I've ever seen and I don't know why I haven't seen it before.0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY2wB5JImsE
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