Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Mooooo · 24-02-2021 10:55pm

I avoid tubing if I can at all, time consuming but unless they just wont drink I'll keep at it. Spread lime or stalosan f on the calving pen as well and calf pens as well every so often.
Doing a calf programme with vets, they blooded heifers under 7 days old and weighed with tape all heifers there that day and will re weigh in 50 days time I think to see growth rates. Must note any treatments etc for them. All bloods came back above the 5.5 anyway so showed colostrum was good. Kept a bucket in the fridge to have it to hand if needed and have some frozen as well. Just to try to see what I can do to keep em on track. About 8 or 9 different practices doing it so should be some info come out of it

kevthegaff · 24-02-2021 11:00pm

Changed this year to tubing every calf compared to bucket and teat. Everything has been going g very well, large first feed and straight onto double teat feeder after 12-24 hrs, bo scour so far. Problem this week as aubracs wont bloody drink!

mahoney_j · 24-02-2021 11:46pm

Every calf here at birth gets 1 cc of multimin and 3.5/4 litres via stomach tube ,left with cow for an hour or so and then to calf pens ,2 further feeds of cows milk then onto transformula for 5/7 days ,seems to be working well ,cows not vaccinated for rota as didn’t see point when calves get so little milk

Castlekeeper · 25-02-2021 12:04am

kevthegaff wrote: »

Got the cows earlier in the week for 1 day, cow now with a twisted I think. Does it cause it change in the diet? How do lads avoid it

Yes,it has happened here a few times over the years. Now, we don't have cows too hungry, try and break in changes in diet, we don't leave out fresh calved cows.
It has never happened an NRX only HoFr or Jex

straight · 25-02-2021 12:16am

mahoney_j wrote: »

Every calf here at birth gets 1 cc of multimin and 3.5/4 litres via stomach tube ,left with cow for an hour or so and then to calf pens ,2 further feeds of cows milk then onto transformula for 5/7 days ,seems to be working well ,cows not vaccinated for rota as didn’t see point when calves get so little milk

On the shine compumate here this year. I've the plan that if calves get scour i could run to to co op for 5 or 6 bags of transformula. Expensive stuff I think.

GrasstoMilk · 25-02-2021 12:27am

straight wrote: »

On the shine compumate here this year. I've the plan that if calves get scour i could run to to co op for 5 or 6 bags of transformula. Expensive stuff I think.

I've gone away from shine powder, found it too heavy on our calves
They'd be going away fine on whole milk, switch them onto shine on either the teat feeder or auto feeder and always got a good few that bloated up or got a bad scour
On a different brand this year and happy so far

Sacrolyte · 25-02-2021 12:49am

mahoney_j wrote: »

Every calf here at birth gets 1 cc of multimin and 3.5/4 litres via stomach tube ,left with cow for an hour or so and then to calf pens ,2 further feeds of cows milk then onto transformula for 5/7 days ,seems to be working well ,cows not vaccinated for rota as didn’t see point when calves get so little milk

How do you find the multi min?

Timmaay · 25-02-2021 1:10am

I moved fully away from the stomach tube 2 years ago, largely because of the year I got serious problems with scour, I thought I was putting too much pressure on the calf trying to force that volume of milk in them. Calves here might not get their full whack of coliseum always, but they are still good healthy strong calves, and very little scour, so I'd be slow to change 2bh. A good drycow diet without too much restriction (unless she is clearly mud fat), plenty of minerals in the 3 weeks leading up to calving, alongside improved drycow shed hygiene (clearing out strawbedding several times a week), that's all helped also.

Gawddawggonnit · 25-02-2021 8:12am

whelan2 wrote: »

Rotavec treated milk to be fed for at least first 2 weeks to get full cover. Otherwise vaccine is a waste of money

Yep. They all get their own mother’s milk for the first five days then get pooled milk from fresh calvers until day 12 or 14. Then onto autofeeder. Once they get as far as that they’re fine.

Rotovec is the only vaccine we use and I hope that the Covid vaccines have more efficiencies...we only vaccinate the cows that are calving between November and March because crypto is never seen with us in good weather. As vaccines go Rotovec is shyte but it still is a good aid.

Gawddawggonnit · 25-02-2021 8:21am

whelan2 wrote: »

Just read the data sheet again. Colostrum from the first 6 to 8 milkings should be pooled and fed to calves for the first two weeks of life. This goes totally against johnes prevention. But if you are not using the vaccine properly as in feeding the treated biestings for 2 weeks , you are wasting your money vaccinating for it as you wont get full cover

That’s the rub isn’t it. We don’t have Johnes but we are very vigilant about it all the same because we’re buying cows from all over. Any breeding stock only get their mothers milk for 5 days and then onto the powder and they’re usually the most problematic ones.
I dread walking into the calf house when it’s mild and damp...the kind of damp that wets the inside of sheds or even the car/jeep.

whelan2 · 25-02-2021 10:18am

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Yep. They all get their own mother’s milk for the first five days then get pooled milk from fresh calvers until day 12 or 14. Then onto autofeeder. Once they get as far as that they’re fine.

Rotovec is the only vaccine we use and I hope that the Covid vaccines have more efficiencies...we only vaccinate the cows that are calving between November and March because crypto is never seen with us in good weather. As vaccines go Rotovec is shyte but it still is a good aid.

Every year I tell people about the instructions for rotavec, it's expensive enough without not using it properly. Still there's lads who know better than the manufacturers of the vaccine.

straight · 25-02-2021 11:19am

Had to do a grass walk yesterday. Between the rain and the puddles I got drowned. Covers are looking light and washed out after the rain. The sun today might bring them on.

stanflt · 25-02-2021 11:28am

straight wrote: »

On the shine compumate here this year. I've the plan that if calves get scour i could run to to co op for 5 or 6 bags of transformula. Expensive stuff I think.

Your milk powder is causing the bloat- I’d recommend changing to a whey based product- used to lose 3-4 calves a year when on that particular company’s powder- changed to Glanbia easy dual and haven’t lost a to bloat and only lost one calf in total

straight · 25-02-2021 11:32am

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Yep. They all get their own mother’s milk for the first five days then get pooled milk from fresh calvers until day 12 or 14. Then onto autofeeder. Once they get as far as that they’re fine.

Rotovec is the only vaccine we use and I hope that the Covid vaccines have more efficiencies...we only vaccinate the cows that are calving between November and March because crypto is never seen with us in good weather. As vaccines go Rotovec is shyte but it still is a good aid.

I used bovigen vaccine this year. It says colostrum a few hours after calving creates passive immunity. We'll see how it goes. Rotavec wasn't working out for me.

straight · 25-02-2021 11:36am

stanflt wrote: »

Your milk powder is causing the bloat- I’d recommend changing to a whey based product- used to lose 3-4 calves a year when on that particular company’s powder- changed to Glanbia easy dual and haven’t lost a to bloat and only lost one calf in total

I changed from whey last year. Just gave the 2 calves about 40ml of liquid paraffin and they were grand. I'll see how it goes, the whey based is cheaper too.

whelan2 · 25-02-2021 11:36am

straight wrote: »

I used bovigen vaccine this year. It says colostrum a few hours after calving creates passive immunity. We'll see how it goes. Rotavec wasn't working out for me.

Did you feed as per recommendations ?

straight · 25-02-2021 11:53am

whelan2 wrote: »

Did you feed as per recommendations ?

Over and above

25-02-2021 12:11pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Rotavec treated milk to be fed for at least first 2 weeks to get full cover. Otherwise vaccine is a waste of money

Your a bit over complicating the effectiveness of the rotavac by saying its a waste of money if not fed for 2 weeks. First feed of colostrum with rotavec is very effective and goes a long way to giving good protection. And before you say that the label says, feed for 2 weeks for full cover, the label also says a single shot gives 3 months of cover which is true in laboratory conditions as explained to me by a vet . But on a farm with 100 cows in a shed and 100 calves sharing air space, things are far from laboratory conditions and on our farm , we expect 1 month cover from a shot . This has improved things on our farm

whelan2 · 25-02-2021 12:58pm

1373 wrote: »

Your a bit over complicating the effectiveness of the rotavac by saying its a waste of money if not fed for 2 weeks. First feed of colostrum with rotavec is very effective and goes a long way to giving good protection. And before you say that the label says, feed for 2 weeks for full cover, the label also says a single shot gives 3 months of cover which is true in laboratory conditions as explained to me by a vet . But on a farm with 100 cows in a shed and 100 calves sharing air space, things are far from laboratory conditions and on our farm , we expect 1 month cover from a shot . This has improved things on our farm

Look I'm not starting a row just pointing out that lads just throw the packaging away and dont read it and then complain of rotavirus or whatever. At 9 euro a shot you'd be trying to use it so it works

Morris Moss · 25-02-2021 1:48pm

Any advice or tips for crypto, calves are getting halocur, electrolytes 3-4 times a days and 5ml of aquaprim for the worst ones, I've asked a few places about parafor and was told it can't be got, any help would be great

whelan2 · 25-02-2021 2:00pm

Effydral tablets are great. Electrolytes 3 or 4 times a day is alot. They still need milk

Morris Moss · 25-02-2021 2:13pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Effydral tablets are great. Electrolytes 3 or 4 times a day is alot. They still need milk

Sorry meant to say they get milk as well,only the really dehydrated ones get it 3 or 4 times, can effydral still be got, haven't seen them in a long time

whelan2 · 25-02-2021 2:16pm

Morris Moss wrote: »

Sorry meant to say they get milk as well,only the really dehydrated ones get it 3 or 4 times, can effydral still be got, haven't seen them in a long time

Got them on glanbia connect last week. Natural yoghurt is good to repair the lining of the gut too

jaymla627 · 25-02-2021 2:30pm

Morris Moss wrote: »

Any advice or tips for crypto, calves are getting halocur, electrolytes 3-4 times a days and 5ml of aquaprim for the worst ones, I've asked a few places about parafor and was told it can't be got, any help would be great

Where are you based, got parafour of Rigney betinary in kilcormack Offaly last year

blackdog1 · 25-02-2021 2:38pm

Morris Moss wrote: »

Any advice or tips for crypto, calves are getting halocur, electrolytes 3-4 times a days and 5ml of aquaprim for the worst ones, I've asked a few places about parafor and was told it can't be got, any help would be great

If you can't get parafor try and calve outdoors and have the calf pens immaculate. Feed any new calves first and sick calves last. Their either picking it up in the Calving shed or calf house

Timmaay · 25-02-2021 2:45pm

Do whatever the hell you need to do to get parafor, its the only job in my view. Thankfully I haven't needed to use any this year and very little last year, cleaning out the drycow sheds alot more frequently (every 2 or 3 days instead of building up a foot or more of straw) seems to be what did the trick.

Morris Moss · 25-02-2021 2:52pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Where are you based, got parafour of Rigney betinary in kilcormack Offaly last year

Kilkenny, was told a special license was needed to get it now, and basically they couldn't get it anymore.

straight · 25-02-2021 2:52pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Look I'm not starting a row just pointing out that lads just throw the packaging away and dont read it and then complain of rotavirus or whatever. At 9 euro a shot you'd be trying to use it so it works

Sure men never read instructions. That's only for the gods like.

Morris Moss · 25-02-2021 2:56pm

blackdog1 wrote: »

If you can't get parafor try and calve outdoors and have the calf pens immaculate. Feed any new calves first and sick calves last. Their either picking it up in the Calving shed or calf house

I'll be honest I think they got it off a lad that came to buy calves, calving box is cleaned out every 2 days, and calf pens twice a week, I suppose it doesn't matter where they got it at this stage now.

whelan2 · 25-02-2021 2:56pm

straight wrote: »

Sure men never read instructions. That's only for the gods like.

Then go looking for them in the bin. I know what I'm at.....

visatorro · 25-02-2021 3:29pm

Timmaay wrote:

Do whatever the hell you need to do to get parafor, its the only job in my view. Thankfully I haven't needed to use any this year and very little last year, cleaning out the drycow sheds alot more frequently (every 2 or 3 days instead of building up a foot or more of straw) seems to be what did the trick.

Is parafor the same as halocur?

Gawddawggonnit · 25-02-2021 3:31pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Look I'm not starting a row just pointing out that lads just throw the packaging away and dont read it and then complain of rotavirus or whatever. At 9 euro a shot you'd be trying to use it so it works

€9?
Best I can get it for is €11.66. Gougers.

Gawddawggonnit · 25-02-2021 3:33pm

visatorro wrote: »

Is parafor the same as halocur?

No.
Gabrovet is the only other option over Parfor. They took Parfor off the market here.

Gawddawggonnit · 25-02-2021 3:41pm

blackdog1 wrote: »

If you can't get parafor try and calve outdoors and have the calf pens immaculate. Feed any new calves first and sick calves last. Their either picking it up in the Calving shed or calf house

+1.
I tried to deep clean and fumigate the calving and calf facilities a few years ago as per your recommendations. We’ve all the kit from the poultry houses. We even used thé superheated steam fumigator. No good. I think that it’s like Mortellaro, once you have it, you have it forever.

Once the weather drys up we’ll calve them outside. It’s very rare to have problems when calved outside.

Mooooo · 25-02-2021 3:52pm

If you wash out the house, let it dry and then disinfect with cyclex it seems to work.
Lime or some powdered disinfectant on the straw beds and clean off the boots/ gear before going into the calving and calf pens.
Use feeders with flaps as well to keep them fcuking crows away from the pens

Timmaay · 25-02-2021 5:09pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

+1.
I tried to deep clean and fumigate the calving and calf facilities a few years ago as per your recommendations. We’ve all the kit from the poultry houses. We even used thé superheated steam fumigator. No good. I think that it’s like Mortellaro, once you have it, you have it forever.

Once the weather drys up we’ll calve them outside. It’s very rare to have problems when calved outside.

Touch wood I managed to get rid of it, spring calving system does mean the sheds are all empty for like 8months of the year so that probably helps.

blackdog1 · 25-02-2021 10:56pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

+1.
I tried to deep clean and fumigate the calving and calf facilities a few years ago as per your recommendations. We’ve all the kit from the poultry houses. We even used thé superheated steam fumigator. No good. I think that it’s like Mortellaro, once you have it, you have it forever.

Once the weather drys up we’ll calve them outside. It’s very rare to have problems when calved outside.

Do you think cows carry it? Wonder if you could blood test for it what the results would be..

greysides · 25-02-2021 11:12pm

blackdog1 wrote: »

Do you think cows carry it? Wonder if you could blood test for it what the results would be..

Cows are a source of all the scour pathogens.

Castlekeeper · 25-02-2021 11:29pm

We don't get as much of it or as early as before (I'm afraid if what I'll find in terms morning now!) since we upped our hygiene and bedding routine in the calving and calf housing, using cycle, keeping the wellies clean etc.
For most cases if caught in time, four days of sulfa powders cures it here. Being proactive in looking for the next victim is key, if they look sick, your late. Faecal examine the calves every 2nd day and look for the greeny discolouration and mucous and usually tell get over it withouto much of a check.

Say my name · 25-02-2021 11:39pm

I'm tying up lumps of him rock salt in the calf pens now too.
Not sure if it's recommended or not but the calves are giving them an odd lick now.
My reasoning is that isn't salt added to electrolytes if a calf is scouring and they should only lick it if they want it.

I'm not long at it so if greysides or any one else that did it before has an opinion on it I'd love to hear it.

Only other opinion I have is you can't beat sunlight on pen or beast and solid divisions on pens.

Castlekeeper · 25-02-2021 11:47pm

Say my name wrote: »

I'm tying up lumps of him rock salt in the calf pens now too.
Not sure if it's recommended or not but the calves are giving them an odd lick now.
My reasoning is that isn't salt added to electrolytes if a calf is scouring and they should only lick it if they want it.

I'm not long at it so if greysides or any one else that did it before has an opinion on it I'd love to hear it.

Only other opinion I have is you can't beat sunlight on pen or beast and solid divisions on pens.

Unfortunately the wind and rain come from the same direction as the sun around here!
I put Antrim rock salt in the calf troughs last year, they licked it away and were healthy out. Not sure of any correlation. ..

Grueller · 26-02-2021 12:26am

Heifer here with chafing on the inside of the leg and the inside of the udder. It's quite sore and raw looking. She is calved a fortnight now and the udder is quite hard. What can I put on it? Udder mint or something to soften the udder? What would be good for the chafing?

Mooooo · 26-02-2021 12:46am

An udder cream for the udder anyway, is the skin broken on the leg? would sudo cream help maybe or perhaps a cutn'heal type spray

Base price · 26-02-2021 12:47am

Say my name wrote: »

I'm tying up lumps of him rock salt in the calf pens now too.
Not sure if it's recommended or not but the calves are giving them an odd lick now.
My reasoning is that isn't salt added to electrolytes if a calf is scouring and they should only lick it if they want it.

I'm not long at it so if greysides or any one else that did it before has an opinion on it I'd love to hear it.

Only other opinion I have is you can't beat sunlight on pen or beast and solid divisions on pens.

I know that adding salt (NaCl) to electrolytes has something to do with osmosis and fluids passing through the stomach/gut lining.
I think it's sorta the same as how fish that live in the sea get fresh water but the other way around, iykwim.
Edit - I should have said less salinated water instead of fresh water.

Base price · 26-02-2021 12:50am

Grueller wrote: »

Heifer here with chafing on the inside of the leg and the inside of the udder. It's quite sore and raw looking. She is calved a fortnight now and the udder is quite hard. What can I put on it? Udder mint or something to soften the udder? What would be good for the chafing?

Sudocrem for the chaffing and bathe the quarter with hand hot water. Did you check it for mastitis.

alps · 26-02-2021 12:51am

Base price wrote: »

I know that adding salt (NaCl) to electrolytes has something to do with osmosis and fluids passing through the stomach/gut lining.
I think it's sorta the same as how fish that live in the sea get fresh water but the other way around, iykwim.

Do fish need to drink?

Base price · 26-02-2021 12:59am

alps wrote: »

Do fish need to drink?

They don't drink like we would but in order to keep alive their skin/bodies are acclimatised to filter out the salt by a type of osmosis - that's my simple understanding of the process. Youngest explained it to me a few years ago and how fish are different to marine mammals yet similar but he lost me after the first minute or so.

Say my name · 26-02-2021 1:11am

Grueller wrote: »

Heifer here with chafing on the inside of the leg and the inside of the udder. It's quite sore and raw looking. She is calved a fortnight now and the udder is quite hard. What can I put on it? Udder mint or something to soften the udder? What would be good for the chafing?

Cheno unction was always a good cream for moisturizing the udder.

Base price · 26-02-2021 1:46am

greysides wrote: »

Cows are a source of all the scour pathogens.

Maybe add crows/jackdaws/dickie birds/rats/mice feeding out of and contaminating meal feeders too?

Gawddawggonnit · 26-02-2021 5:31am

greysides wrote: »

Cows are a source of all the scour pathogens.

Where do they pick it up from?
How do they carry it?

The weather does have a huge role to play.
We only vaccinate the cows that calve from November to March. We never get it in the months we don’t vaccinate and always get it when we vaccinate..maybe the vaccine is the source!

.

Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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