Influencers over-editing photos in Social Media/Cyber-bullying accusations

Suckit · 05-09-2018 2:36pm

witchgirl26 wrote: »

That just mentions where gifts are received as part of a reciprocal arrangement and the brand has control of the message. If they are received through PR send outs, then the brand doesn't have control of the message so I wouldn't think that they have to # them at all. They could #gift to be fully upfront about it if it isn't obvious.

My understanding of it is that by gifting them anything (cosidering the nature of their 'business') that would be considered payment, and therefore considered control over the content.
I think there are already guidelines that they are supposed to follow if they are reviewing gifts that are PR sendouts.
I don't think, for example applying makeup that was a gift, with the brand clearly visible and talking about it as though it is a great product is considered a review, and should be more considered as an advert.
Unless the Blogger/Influencer has written somewhere that this was a gift and it is just their opinion, or something similar to that - Which I believe to be part of the guidelines.

Edited. I don't know for sure, but it seems like gifting would create more problems without some sort of guidelines.

witchgirl26 · 05-09-2018 2:55pm

Suckit wrote: »

My understanding of it is that by gifting them anything (cosidering the nature of their 'business') that would be considered payment, and therefore considered control over the content.
I think there are already guidelines that they are supposed to follow if they are reviewing gifts that are PR sendouts.
I don't think, for example applying makeup that was a gift, with the brand clearly visible and talking about it as though it is a great product is considered a review, and should be more considered as an advert.

I would have thought though that gifts are the same as the PR sendouts. For the most part they are unsolicited and the brand does not expect nor dictate the response the blogger has so therefore there's not contract (implied or otherwise) between the blogger and the brand.

I don't agree with your second piece. If they have been given the products by the brand and an agreement that a blog post or review or picture would follow, then yes they should mark it as an advert. However if it arrived as part of a PR send out that was sent to probably hundreds of bloggers worldwide and decided themselves to review it, then it's not really an advert. Yes they should not it was PR sample but other than that I don't think there's any onus on them to declare it. And I wouldn't think of it as an advert. They got the product whether they choose to show it or not.

Suckit · 05-09-2018 4:43pm

witchgirl26 wrote: »

However if it arrived as part of a PR send out that was sent to probably hundreds of bloggers worldwide and decided themselves to review it, then it's not really an advert. Yes they should note it was PR sample but other than that I don't think there's any onus on them to declare it. And I wouldn't think of it as an advert. They got the product whether they choose to show it or not.

That's pretty much what I meant when I said that "Unless the Blogger/Influencer has written somewhere that this was a gift and it is just their opinion, or something similar to that" - Except that I believe that there is a rule or guideline that does require them to mention that.

My main point is that I don't believe that they can receive a gift and blog about it without mentioning that it was a gift or is an ad or sponsored post etc..
That would be a massive loophole that would be easily exploited.

GingerLily · 05-09-2018 4:56pm

Suckit wrote: »

That's pretty much what I meant when I said that "Unless the Blogger/Influencer has written somewhere that this was a gift and it is just their opinion, or something similar to that" - Except that I believe that there is a rule or guideline that does require them to mention that.

My main point is that I don't believe that they can receive a gift and blog about it without mentioning that it was a gift or is an ad or sponsored post etc..
That would be a massive loophole that would be easily exploited.

If they recieve a gift and have no obligation to mention it on social media, then I don't think they have to declare anything

meeeeh · 05-09-2018 5:01pm

Suckit wrote: »

My main point is that I don't believe that they can receive a gift and blog about it without mentioning that it was a gift or is an ad or sponsored post etc..
That would be a massive loophole that would be easily exploited.

No they don't need to mention anything. That would just make content in Travel, Motors, Beauty, Fashion, Book Review sections in traditional media advertising. It's impossible to implement or police.

It's not that nobody ever noticed the 'loophole', it's unworkable and it would also put high end products at disadvantage.

Suckit · 06-09-2018 3:15pm

I had a quick look around, this is UK but similar may apply here
https://www.4psmarketing.com/blog/new-asa-guidelines-simplified/

I've edited the quote, so maybe better to click the link above: (This is my understanding of it); I can understand why people may have difficulty adhering to it.

(By the way, not arguing with anybody, I'm just trying to show how I interpreted them)

The TL; DR Version

The new ASA guidelines apply to your content if a brand or agency has editorial control over the content. This means:
If they pay a fee for the content (Some may consider a gift as a form of payment)

If your content DOESN’T come under the new ASA guidelines:
Written posts must include:
A line at the top of the post declaring that the product or service was gifted by the brand, but all opinions are independent

This must be at the TOP of the post

Clear identification of any affiliate links used

***********

That aside, looks like there may be an easier way around the rules now..

https://theoutline.com/post/6067/brands-are-paying-influencers-75k-to-trash-their-competitors

witchgirl26 · 06-09-2018 3:26pm

The UK rules are not the same as here though - a lot of bloggers and outlets have noted that. The UK has become a lot more strict in terms of things like that then Ireland is. In fact I remember watching an Instastory of a blogger who went to the information afternoon from the ASAI and said that they wished they'd been more clear in terms of what to do in regards ads and PR gifts than they were.

And again they are guidelines here - complaints can be upheld but it requires people to report it and then its investigated to see if there was a breach.

I do prefer when bloggers state that they've gotten something in a PR send out rather than buying it themselves but to be honest, I just assume a lot of the stuff is from PR boxes. Especially if it's from a bigger brand (Lancome, Urban Decay, Mac etc). However I wouldn't get worked up over that. I really hate if they haven't declared paid for content in relation to a brand and where there's violations of that nature.

Birdsong · 07-09-2018 11:14pm

Thanks for all the responses, it really is a very grey area I think

RhubarbCrumble · 08-09-2018 9:50am

So it seems RMC has written a novel. First chapter is free to all but in order to read the second chapter you must be a patreon, not just a €1 patreon, but a €6.66 patreon.

Details on her instagram because I don't know if I can link here or not.

Sittingpretty · 08-09-2018 10:17am

RhubarbCrumble wrote: »

So it seems RMC has written a novel. First chapter is free to all but in order to read the second chapter you must be a patreon, not just a €1 patreon, but a €6.66 patreon.

Details on her instagram because I don't know if I can link here or not.

She is quite the ego.

Fair play to her, I will I had that absolute gall.

XxMCRxBabyxX · 08-09-2018 11:46am

RhubarbCrumble wrote: »

So it seems RMC has written a novel. First chapter is free to all but in order to read the second chapter you must be a patreon, not just a €1 patreon, but a €6.66 patreon.

Details on her instagram because I don't know if I can link here or not.

Surely if she really wanted to make money from it she'd try get it published properly? Or is Patreon that much more profitable? (I do appreciate that publishing isn't as profitable as it appears to be)

Prominent_Dawg · 08-09-2018 12:05pm

Does anyone else feel the 'Influencer" industry is slowly fading away, a lot of the American beauty brands have pointed out in recent weeks how they are no longer working with them as it now costs these brands much more than what they make in return.. But even in Ireland, I know I've become completely disinterested in what they have to say.. I would love if the lime light turn to our actual talented upcoming journalists, fashion designers, make up artist rather than those who build their success on fake follower, ads & photoshop

Trigger Happy · 08-09-2018 1:10pm

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Surely if she really wanted to make money from it she'd try get it published properly? Or is Patreon that much more profitable? (I do appreciate that publishing isn't as profitable as it appears to be)

Maybe no publisher would touch it with a barge poll! So she attempts this as a way of self publishing.

soiseztomabel · 11-09-2018 7:28am

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Maybe no publisher would touch it with a barge poll! So she attempts this as a way of self publishing.

The more of her ****e that goes behind a paywall the less **** she has to spam. Wish it happened a year ago, I would never of been aware of her if that was the case😁

AndrewJRenko · 11-09-2018 10:28pm

Some strange bloggers out there;

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/dublin-blogger-accused-of-online-harassment-of-cbeebies-presenter-1.3624389

mrsdewinter · 11-09-2018 10:36pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Some strange bloggers out there;

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/dublin-blogger-accused-of-online-harassment-of-cbeebies-presenter-1.3624389

Is she a blogger? As it happens, I knew her slightly years ago, and I follow her on Twitter. There's no mention of any blog on her profile there.

GingerLily · 11-09-2018 11:08pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Some strange bloggers out there;

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/dublin-blogger-accused-of-online-harassment-of-cbeebies-presenter-1.3624389

I read this - very odd. Seems more like a personal grudge though then an influencer V celebrity. But I only know that's in the article to be fair

Eoineo · 12-09-2018 8:39am

Birdsong wrote: »

Can some one clarify, if a blogger/ influencer recieves a gift, are they supposed to have #gift . I have been following Lisa lust list on Instagram, and to me it looks like she's getting lots of freebies but not a #gift in sight. The ood brand ambassador maybe.

Bloggers who use #gift/#gifted/#pressdrop/#guest are doing so out of good manners to their followers. They might not use the hashtags about a gift but disclose in their instastores/images in writing that they received a gift. It's a courtesy thing.

Whether or not the gifts would be considered as income is a matter for the Revenue Commissioners and not the ASAI. Bloggers are not required to use #ad/#sp/#spon about a gift/trip unless the sender has specified how or what they should say about the products on their profiles.

Edited to add: Brand Ambassadors are required to disclose their brand relationship in every social media/blog/vlog reference to the brand in an obvious way. The easiest way to do so is using the tags #BrandAmbassador or #IWorkWithX

*Disclosure* I am a blogger and just felt I had to mention this as it's something that a lot of people are confused about it. And yes I was one of those at the ASAI conference in Facebook a while back.

wyrn · 12-09-2018 11:35am

Eoineo wrote: »

Bloggers who use #gift/#gifted/#pressdrop/#guest are doing so out of good manners to their followers. They might not use the hashtags about a gift but disclose in their instastores/images in writing that they received a gift. It's a courtesy thing.

Whether or not the gifts would be considered as income is a matter for the Revenue Commissioners and not the ASAI. Bloggers are not required to use #ad/#sp/#spon about a gift/trip unless the sender has specified how or what they should say about the products on their profiles.

Edited to add: Brand Ambassadors are required to disclose their brand relationship in every social media/blog/vlog reference to the brand in an obvious way. The easiest way to do so is using the tags #BrandAmbassador or #IWorkWithX

*Disclosure* I am a blogger and just felt I had to mention this as it's something that a lot of people are confused about it. And yes I was one of those at the ASAI conference in Facebook a while back.

It came out a while back that if a blogger is sent something unsolicited, then they can either send back the item or keep it and pay the tax for benefit in kind on that item. The links should be in the previous threads.

Here's a really handy ASAI FAQ on what does / doesn't need to be labelled from April 2018. http://www.asai.ie/wp-content/uploads/ASAI-FAQs-for-Bloggers-Apr2018.pdf

DublinHun72 · 15-09-2018 10:50am

linpoo wrote: »

Was that about AHAR? I remember that.

I don’t recall her ever mention them but they are in the news today

RhubarbCrumble · 23-09-2018 10:46am

Does anyone follow "Penneys to Prada"? She's quite young, early 20s (I'm late 30s) but I used to like her content and think she was quite down to earth. Recently though it's become very very obvious that the majority of her stories/photos are stuff she's being paid to promote or that she's receiving as a gift, even though a lot of the time she's not declaring it. She just seems to have turned into a typical 'follow the crowd' blogger and the reason I followed her in the first place was because she was a bit different and her views seemed to be her own.

I've actually gone right off her now.

Rfrip · 23-09-2018 2:25pm

RhubarbCrumble wrote: »

Does anyone follow "Penneys to Prada"? She's quite young, early 20s (I'm late 30s) but I used to like her content and think she was quite down to earth. Recently though it's become very very obvious that the majority of her stories/photos are stuff she's being paid to promote or that she's receiving as a gift, even though a lot of the time she's not declaring it. She just seems to have turned into a typical 'follow the crowd' blogger and the reason I followed her in the first place was because she was a bit different and her views seemed to be her own.

I've actually gone right off her now.

I’ve thought that myself actually and unfollowed her!
Bloggers unveiled mentioned her to follow a while back and she gained huge amount of followers from that...I think that’s then I noticed a chance tbh

I’m really enjoying aoibhe devlin, she’s recently had a baby which usually sends me running for the hills but I really like her!

Sunny Dayz · 24-09-2018 9:55am

RhubarbCrumble wrote: »

Does anyone follow "Penneys to Prada"? She's quite young, early 20s (I'm late 30s) but I used to like her content and think she was quite down to earth. Recently though it's become very very obvious that the majority of her stories/photos are stuff she's being paid to promote or that she's receiving as a gift, even though a lot of the time she's not declaring it. She just seems to have turned into a typical 'follow the crowd' blogger and the reason I followed her in the first place was because she was a bit different and her views seemed to be her own.

I've actually gone right off her now.

Like yourself, I was quite fond of her and her ability to speak out and set herself just aside from the blogger clichBut I was surprised that she went on that press trip to Milan with Dibi Milano - I've never heard her mention the brand before. Now I know if someone offers you a free trip abroad sure why not, but still, it felt like maybe she threw her principles out the window.

Maybe and hopefully when she gets a post graduate job she might go back to the way she was. Haven't heard her mention anything about job hunting, she seems to have spent most of the summer on holiday in Spain and in Ireland. (I know she is perfectly entitled to a break after 3 or 4 years in college, I'm probably grumbling cos when I finished my last college exam on a Thurs I was in working in my first real job the following Monday). But I think her speaking about job hunting post grad would be helpful to her younger followers.

December2012 · 27-09-2018 2:03am

Is there any link between a certain website aimed at women and Penneys? Like they constantly seem to be promoting and talking about the Penneys "must have" but I never see anything indicating sponsorship or advertising

December2012 · 27-09-2018 2:03am

Is there any link between a certain website aimed at women and Penneys? Like they constantly seem to be promoting and talking about the Penneys "must have" but I never see anything indicating sponsorship or advertising

GingerLily · 27-09-2018 2:53pm

December2012 wrote: »

Is there any link between a certain website aimed at women and Penneys? Like they constantly seem to be promoting and talking about the Penneys "must have" but I never see anything indicating sponsorship or advertising

Which website?

December2012 · 27-09-2018 7:24pm

Oh I didn't know in could name it

HER.IE

GavMan · 28-09-2018 1:21pm

December2012 wrote: »

Oh I didn't know in could name it

HER.IE

you can 100% sure that is paid content. That is how Joe, Her, Lovin' Dublin, etc make cash.

Anecdotally, I've heard its 495 ex vat to get a 'review' on Lovin' Dublin.

meeeeh · 28-09-2018 1:56pm

December2012 wrote: »

Oh I didn't know in could name it

HER.IE

Guardian and Times both state when affiliate links are used but it's very hard to police news/magazine sites. Advertiser could pay for advertising and that's clearly marked but then a couple of complimentary articles could be also thrown in. How do you police when a magazine does a feature on Penny's new collection if nothing was paid towards that but an separate advertising was purchased?

Suckit · 28-09-2018 3:03pm

That's why (according to the article published a few months back) they will have a harder time policing bloggers. They cannot create one law for them and allow well known publications to get away with it. "Marketing makes the (business) world go round" apparently...

Influencers over-editing photos in Social Media/Cyber-bullying accusations

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