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2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

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    #182
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 6,014 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    Hammered them and won the All Ireland. Happy days.

    One of the virtuous of the back door. Meant one bad day riddled with injuries didn't stop the best team by a country mile winning out


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    #183
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 6,014 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    Joe Don Dante wrote: »
    sorry but Galway are not better than Mayo

    A Mayo team hasn't beaten a Galway team since mid 2015. 17 games across minor, u21 u20 and senior. Not including club which would add to it. Galway seniors won Connacht last year with Mayo gone by July


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    #184
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    ...

    Even if you believe it he went a bit overboard. I don't think this type of stuff influences results but it certainly doesn't help.

    Just shows how clued in Maughan is
    Roscommon played Leitrim in the Hyde, not Carrick


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    #185
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    Hammered them and won the All Ireland. Happy days.

    Yep.
    That Roscommon team went off the rails after winning Connacht final.
    Well, the whole county did to be honest


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    #186
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    rossie1977 wrote: »

    Connacht final last year was level in 69th minute..


    Never quite sure about the value of these snapshot-in-time observations. Mayo were level with Dublin after 71 minutes of the 2017 All-Ireland final. but that didn't guarantee anything a year later. It might be more telling to point out that Roscommon led that Connacht Final you refer to by 1-4 to 0-2 after 22 minutes and were outscored by 0-14 to 1-2 during the rest of the game. They failed to score from play in the second-half. That possibly reflects the nature of that Connacht Final more honestly than your original point?

    Roscommon were outscored 12 scores to 7 from play last night and that was with Mayo managing 17 wides (which is not say that good defending doesn't play its part in this but it implies a lot of possession for Mayo in the danger zone). A more efficient team than Mayo last night will kill them.

    Fair play to Roscommon for their win but when you take out the melodrama that envelopes some people when reacting to Mayo defeats there are limited takeaways from that game for Roscommon regarding future prospects. Last year they made the Super 8 by beating only two Division 3 teams. That might be what they have to rely on again.


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    #187
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    Hulk Hands wrote: »

    "By a freak found themselves with lead".

    In 2017 Ros had hammered Galway. Galway had beaten Mayo, with Mayo needing a freak lucky goal to make it close. In the last 3 years alone, Mayo have lost to Ros, Galway x3, Kildare and drew with Ros, Derry, Cork and needed a dive to beat Fermanagh. This kind of arrogance, thinking a little team like Roscommon, who in reality are very nearly as good as ye, were freakily ahead is exactly why people are laughing tonight


    Not sure what all this "ye" nonsense is about or where Fermanagh or Kildare fit into this but to deal with the point I actually made: Roscommon, on all evidence, leading Mayo by seven points after 12 minutes was freakish as they were so far behind them as proven the course of the rest of that game and in the reply.

    Anyway, it's just a word - don't take it to heart.


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    #188
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    Strabanimal wrote: »
    Mayo have always been a thorn in our side. Great result for Roscommon.

    Let us not forget how easy it is for Dublin to win Leinster however. They should never be considered for the best team ever.

    Maybe it is, but Kildare won three matches outside Leinster to get to the Super 8, including knocking out the beat All-Ireland finalists of the previous year, while Tyrone needed extra-time to beat Meath by a point. It seems that teams from other parts of the country don't always roll over Leinster teams quite as easily.

    I also suspect that Dublin would successfully negotiate the choppy waters of the Munster championship if they were in Kerry's shoes, and likewise teams such as Down, Fermanagh and Antrim up north. We hardly need to comment on how they dealt with Connacht's finest, Roscommon and Galway, last year.

    I couldn't comment on Dublin being the best team ever. I'm not old enough to have seen all the teams, not young enough to be certain of my opinions, but the idea that they are winning only because of a weak provinces or "home" games is a laugh. They have always played predominantly in Croke Park. It never was an issue until they had the temerity to actually win.


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    #189
    grbear
    Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭grbear


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    ...

    Even if you believe it he went a bit overboard. I don't think this type of stuff influences results but it certainly doesn't help.

    I've heard the audio from the interview as it was part of the podcast. It didn't come across as massively arrogant when he was talking about the match but he acknowledged that what he was saying could end up sounding that way.

    Brady is just an attention seeker. Claiming Mayo would have to beat Roscommon by two or three times the handicap betting in order to be taken seriously. Nonsense.


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    #190
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,969 ✭✭✭threeball


    Powerhouse wrote: »
    Why can't you say something like that the day before a match as an ex-player? There is surely no sense or merit in the superstitious beliefs of some people that this sort of stuff influences games in this day and age of proper scientific preparation?

    If you actually look at the evidence objectively he is right in a lot of ways. Roscommon played in the Super 8 last year and lost Donegal by 7, Tyrone by 18 and Dublin by 14. They exited the 2017 championship to Mayo by 22 points, lost the Connacht Final replay in 2016 by 11 points and subsequently exited to Clare (an NFL Division 3 team at the time).

    This shows that at the very top level Roscommon have come up way way short and should be put to the sword by a team which aspires to that same top level. And he is entitled to say what is clearly borne out by reality. There's enough soapy claptrap talked by pundits who you know would be speaking out the other side of his mouth privately on the same topic.

    I already said there was a element of truth in what he said as the top teams do tend to dismantle Roscommon. However, Mayo very rarely dismantle anyone let alone the one county that hates them more than any other.

    Outside of the croke park replay, Mayo very rarely beat Roscommon well and often lose to them in games they are heavy favourites to win. Coming out and saying on the eve of the match that they need to beat them by 12 to 15 is nonsense. It was never going to happen and I'd be very surprised is Cunningham didn't stick the audio on in the bus on the way down. Gaelic football is at least 50% attitude and aggression so motivating factors do give teams a huge advantage whether you like it or not.


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    #191
    Comic Book Guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Comic Book Guy


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Connacht is a two horse race
    Newly minted League champions Mayo go to NYC next months an then play Roscommon or Leitrim if they win in NYC
    Galway go to London first and if they win play Sligo
    So that sets up a very important Connacht final in Salthill between Galway and Mayo
    Galway have owned Mayo this last few years but have done little else
    Even in the league they were 7 points up at 35 mins away from a league final the they conspired to lose the game and the final place

    Winning this is very important for both and it makes the groups stages much easier

    The danger of being OP I guess.


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    #192
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    threeball wrote: »
    I already said there was a element of truth in what he said as the top teams do tend to dismantle Roscommon. However, Mayo very rarely dismantle anyone let alone the one county that hates them more than any other.

    Outside of the croke park replay, Mayo very rarely beat Roscommon well and often lose to them in games they are heavy favourites to win. Coming out and saying on the eve of the match that they need to beat them by 12 to 15 is nonsense. It was never going to happen and I'd be very surprised is Cunningham didn't stick the audio on in the bus on the way down. Gaelic football is at least 50% attitude and aggression so motivating factors do give teams a huge advantage whether you like it or not.


    What the this'll-be-pinned-up-on-the-dressing-room-wall brigade can never explain is how a team like Dublin motivates themselves if they are not being insulted the day before the match.

    In this day and age an inter-county manager would need to come up with something more strategic than an audio clip of David Brady to prepare his team. Whether I like it or not has nothing to do with it.

    The matter of whether Mayo often beat Roscommon easily or not is irrelevant. In a rational world not informed by superstitions about the past and by "x don't ever fear Y" clichés, Brady has a point. Dublin, who are the benchmark, would beat Roscommon by 15 points.

    As a county which has reached four All-Ireland finals this decade and got within a point of the winners in three of them, beat Roscommon by 21 points last time they met in championship, and was able to win the League this year while Roscommon were relegated, would be very unambitious if they could not accept that some people are entitled to hold Mayo to that kind of standard.


    It might not suit Mayo people as it pins them to a standard of expectation they might be unable to meet, while their opponents can naturally beef up the impact of the win with the "we were written off" claptrap. But the faux offence in evidence here is an absolute joke. It was a comment, an opinion, no more no less. And an opinion that many would privately concede too.


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    #193
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Comic Book Guy wrote: »
    The danger of being OP I guess.

    :D Good one.


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    #194
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    Super post Powerhouse.

    Nail on the head,lots of faux offence.

    David Brady tends to play to the crowd in terms of analysis.Hence the stereotype labelling he receives.. Poor analyst etc.It's gets him lots of attention and same is always welcome in media organisations.

    Still to this day enjoy his story re him believing he'd lost his car.

    BTW for what my opinion's worth I think he is a poor analyst but he's rich in company.


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    #195
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,058 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Comic Book Guy wrote: »
    The danger of being OP I guess.

    Very disappointed by Mayo last night.
    But well done Roscommon.

    Any bounce off the league win is now in the bin.

    With the new structure getting to and winning a provincial final goes a long way towards mapping out a plan to go further.

    For Mayo that is all up in the air now.


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    #196
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Very disappointed by Mayo last night.
    But well done Roscommon.

    Any bounce off the league win is now in the bin.

    With the new structure getting to and winning a provincial final goes a long way towards mapping out a plan to go further.

    For Mayo that is all up in the air now.

    Might have better luck in tier 2.


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    #197
    Comic Book Guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Comic Book Guy


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Very disappointed by Mayo last night.
    But well done Roscommon.

    Any bounce off the league win is now in the bin.

    With the new structure getting to and winning a provincial final goes a long way towards mapping out a plan to go further.

    For Mayo that is all up in the air now.

    Still think they will breeze thru into Super 8s. The accumulation of extra games though isn't ideal.

    Kerry and the Ulster Champions will hardly be happy to see them land in their group either.


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    #198
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Would Monaghan do them?


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    #199
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Powerhouse, you don't understand local rivalry. Roscommon hadn't won in Castlebar for 33 years. Thete were grown men crying on the pitch after that game last night.
    Not every team or group of fans are as cold and professional as the Dubs.
    Roscommon had only 4 players starting from the 2017 connacht final afaik
    It's almost a new set of players


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    #200
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,058 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Comic Book Guy wrote: »
    Still think they will breeze thru into Super 8s. The accumulation of extra games though isn't ideal.

    Kerry and the Ulster Champions will hardly be happy to see them land in their group either.

    I'm more confident of them in the qualifiers this year than last because I believe they are a bit fresher, but it's still a minefield.

    If Roscommon lose to Galway then Mayo would have only one chance of landing in the Ulster/Munster group as they cannot meet Roscommon in Rnd 4.

    They have two chances of landing in the other group


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    #201
    C__MC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,058 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Terrible result for mayo lads. They need to win 3 games now to make super eights and win a further two to get to a semi. I don't think they'll win All Ireland down this route. Poor decision making last night cost them. Roscommon deserved it , question is can they back it up against galway. Traditionally they have struggled in doing this.


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    #202
    C__MC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,058 ✭✭✭C__MC


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Would Monaghan do them?

    No they wouldn't,


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    #203
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    C__MC wrote: »
    No they wouldn't,

    It'll be up to Wicklow so :D


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    #204
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Powerhouse, you don't understand local rivalry. Roscommon hadn't won in Castlebar for 33 years. Thete were grown men crying on the pitch after that game last night.
    Not every team or group of fans are as cold and professional as the Dubs.
    Roscommon had only 4 players starting from the 2017 connacht final afaik
    It's almost a new set of players


    I never questioned Roscommon's right to enjoy themselves and celebrate, and I would acknowledge their achievement totally. All I did was argue that David Brady's pre-match comments while politically unacceptable had some basis in evidence. It's just that most people are too cute to every say something like that publicly.

    And suggesting that Roscommon's ultimate outcome remains unsure is hardly taking from their justified elation at winning. You are not the first person to point out the turnover of players - to be honest that would not necessarily reassure me about Roscommon. Do they really have that depth of talent or is there a serious beating waiting in their near future?


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    #205
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,969 ✭✭✭threeball


    Powerhouse wrote: »
    What the this'll-be-pinned-up-on-the-dressing-room-wall brigade can never explain is how a team like Dublin motivates themselves if they are not being insulted the day before the match.

    In this day and age an inter-county manager would need to come up with something more strategic than an audio clip of David Brady to prepare his team. Whether I like it or not has nothing to do with it.

    The matter of whether Mayo often beat Roscommon easily or not is irrelevant. In a rational world not informed by superstitions about the past and by "x don't ever fear Y" clichés, Brady has a point. Dublin, who are the benchmark, would beat Roscommon by 15 points.

    As a county which has reached four All-Ireland finals this decade and got within a point of the winners in three of them, beat Roscommon by 21 points last time they met in championship, and was able to win the League this year while Roscommon were relegated, would be very unambitious if they could not accept that some people are entitled to hold Mayo to that kind of standard.


    It might not suit Mayo people as it pins them to a standard of expectation they might be unable to meet, while their opponents can naturally beef up the impact of the win with the "we were written off" claptrap. But the faux offence in evidence here is an absolute joke. It was a comment, an opinion, no more no less. And an opinion that many would privately concede too.

    You are completely ignoring the fact that these things are motivating and games are won on small percentages. In this case 1 pt was the difference. The team needs a gameplan etc but little factors can tip the balance. As I already said aggression and mindset are 50% of the game at inter county. Look at Cork in the hurling two weeks ago and then last week. It wasn't a gameplan that changed in 7 days it was the mindset.

    You also ignore the fact that Dublin are not only a much better team than roscommon but a much better team than mayo. Just like boxing however, styles make matches so just because Dublins style hammers roscommon but fares less well against mayo doesn't mean that mayo are 12pts better than roscommon. History has shown this is almost never the case so why would yesterday be any different.


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    #206
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    threeball wrote: »

    You are completely ignoring the fact that these things are motivating and games are won on small percentages. .


    You are ignoring the fact that there isn't a whit of evidence that anyone in the Roscommon camp was even aware of the comments. In any event, I don't believe and never have believed that offence taken at a comment the day before a game is worth anything more than a few roars in the dressing-room beforehand. When lungs are bursting, limbs are tired, and split-second decision have to be taken late in a game, energy derived from this source is of little help.

    As for your view that Mayo's style somehow doesn't fare well against Roscommon is flawed even if they have hardly played each other often enough in recent times to really judge if something mystical is at play when Roscommon play Mayo. The facts are clear and quite damning of your view it has to be said - in 2017 Mayo won by 21 points in the replay; in 2013 Mayo won by 12 points; in 2009 Mayo won by 20 points. I can't see the value in going back earlier than that other than to say Roscommon did not win a match since 2001. (To put some chronological context on that, Westmeath and Laois have beaten Dublin in the championship since then) So contrary to what you say, arguably yesterday was in fact different because the recent trend has been a Mayo win and possibly by quite a big margin at that.


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    #207
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,325 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Powerhouse, you don't understand local rivalry. Roscommon hadn't won in Castlebar for 33 years. Thete were grown men crying on the pitch after that game last night.
    Not every team or group of fans are as cold and professional as the Dubs.
    Roscommon had only 4 players starting from the 2017 connacht final afaik
    It's almost a new set of players

    I understand the rivalry when I was in Roscommon to see them play Dublin, my eyes were opened.
    The Roscommon fan I was talking to was telling me how much they hate Mayo.
    He explained the Ballaghaderreen thing to me, and why Andy Moran was particularly disliked.
    He even went as far to say when Dublin were playing Mayo in the AI finals and AI Semi Finals Roscommon people wanted the Dubs to win! :D

    So I am delighted for the Rossies they are my 'second team' this year.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #208
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Powerhouse wrote: »
    I never questioned Roscommon's right to enjoy themselves and celebrate, and I would acknowledge their achievement totally. All I did was argue that David Brady's pre-match comments while politically unacceptable had some basis in evidence. It's just that most people are too cute to every say something like that publicly.

    And suggesting that Roscommon's ultimate outcome remains unsure is hardly taking from their justified elation at winning. You are not the first person to point out the turnover of players - to be honest that would not necessarily reassure me about Roscommon. Do they really have that depth of talent or is there a serious beating waiting in their near future?

    Roscommon lost to mayo in the league by 1 point. And Ros kicked that game away. For a Mayo pundit to write off Roscommon and say they'll lose by 10-12 points makes a complete mockery of Mayos opponents. He was beaten by Roscommon a few times in his career too.

    Roscommon have a huge turnover of players as there are no jobs in the county and they don't have multi-million sponsors like the Dubs to keep players on board.
    Players have to move for work. And it's much harder to be committed if you face a 2 hour journey home to train or for games


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    #209
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Powerhouse wrote: »
    You are ignoring the fact that there isn't a whit of evidence that anyone in the Roscommon camp was even aware of the comments. In any event, I don't believe and never have believed that offence taken at a comment the day before a game is worth anything more than a few roars in the dressing-room beforehand. When lungs are bursting, limbs are tired, and split-second decision have to be taken late in a game, energy derived from this source is of little help.
    Never underestimate hatred or disdain. Two very powerful motivational factors
    They will keep you running and working for 70 mins

    And Dublin only beat Ros by 5 points in the league


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    #210
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    nice_guy80 wrote: »

    Roscommon lost to mayo in the league by 1 point.

    They did indeed. And in the same competition Monaghan beat Dublin, and Tipperary beat Donegal. And Roscommon were relegated and Mayo won the competition. A very reliable form-guide indeed which Brady should not have ignored.


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    #211
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Never underestimate hatred or disdain. Two very powerful motivational factors
    They will keep you running and working for 70 mins


    Not point is discussing that - it's not measurable. You can claim anything you like and it can't be proven, disproven, or even plausibly argued. There are so many variables in the mindsets of 27 or 28 players on a panel that such nebulous nonsense as "hatred" is inadmissible. One guy might hate everyone on the basis of some perceived slight but what some lad said about an acre of land back in the 1940s, but chances are he'll be surrounded by many perfectly well-adjusted guys many of whom will have shared digs with/socialised with their opponents in college.


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