General Ryanair discusion

Van.Bosch · 23-08-2019 1:45pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

And yet they are number 2 airline in Europe by passenger volume. That's the only poll that matters.

Who carries more?

billy few mates · 23-08-2019 1:46pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

And yet they are number 2 airline in Europe by passenger volume. That's the only poll that matters.

And the M50 is the most popular motorway in Dublin...

Van.Bosch · 23-08-2019 1:50pm

billy few mates wrote: »

And the M50 is the most popular motorway in Dublin...

It’s like the Ryanair claim that they are the most popular airline as they fly more pax etc than airline B.

I go to bed once a day and go to the toilet 4 times. By Ryanair’s Logic I prefer going to the toilet.

JCX BXC · 23-08-2019 1:56pm

billy few mates wrote: »

And the M50 is the most popular motorway in Dublin...

As there is no alternative, there is an alternative for the vast majority of routes.

Ryanair isn't the best airline, however it's cheap, reliable and offers a wide variety of routes. That's what people care about, not whether their bi-annual flight is slightly more comfortable.

grimm2005 · 23-08-2019 2:00pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

It’s like the Ryanair claim that they are the most popular airline as they fly more pax etc than airline B.

I go to bed once a day and go to the toilet 4 times. By Ryanair’s Logic I prefer going to the toilet.

Pretty terrible analogy tbf, those are bodily functions, buying a ryanair ticket over airline B is a conscious choice, choosing to go to the loo more times than you go to bed is not, it suggests people are being forced to book with them.

Shn99 · 23-08-2019 2:10pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Who carries more?

Lufthansa group (Lufthansa, Austrian,Brussels, Eurowings, Germanwings, Swiss) though Ryanair are on track to surpass them and take the top spot this year

pc7 · 23-08-2019 2:10pm

I'm really surprised at the hate Ryanair still get, if you play by their rules its a gift. Their family option works well for my smallies, they are pretty much always on time when I use them. Last 3 family holidays they have been cheaper by quite a few hundred than the alternative.

Van.Bosch · 23-08-2019 2:12pm

grimm2005 wrote: »

Pretty terrible analogy tbf, those are bodily functions, buying a ryanair ticket over airline B is a conscious choice, choosing to go to the loo more times than you go to bed is not, it suggests people are being forced to book with them.

Which they kind of are if Aer Lingus for example don’t fly a route. Okay not forced but if Ryanair carry 189 pax to Porto from Dublin and Aer Lingus carry 0. That feeds into the overall total that Ryanair claim means people prefer them over EI. When the reality is, to declare a preference there has to be a valid choice.

grimm2005 · 23-08-2019 2:12pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

As there is no alternative, there is an alternative for the vast majority of routes.

Ryanair isn't the best airline, however it's cheap, reliable and offers a wide variety of routes. That's what people care about, not whether their bi-annual flight is slightly more comfortable.

Spot on, I travel quite regularly, on average a return flight every 2 months, sometimes more. Ryanair isn't the cheapest 100% of the time and I will mix and match where it makes sense but certainly in my case the flights are considerably cheaper probably a good 90% of the time and usually considerably so, to the point that the price difference would be the difference between me taking the trip or not going on the trip at all. Things like picking my seat and increased baggage allowance are extras that I can easily do without for a short trip and I rarely pay more than the headline price (the very rare occasion I might need priority for a longer trip but I'll factor this in to the price in my decision of who to go for).

Tenzor07 · 23-08-2019 2:15pm

I've taken 12 Ryanair flights this year to date with more to come.

I really can't complain at all, and have had no issues whatsoever.

All flights boarded on time, any delays were down to Snow/bad weather or ATC issues..

I've brought a suitcase or backpack that I am sure is a few KG's over the carry on limit and never once was asked to weigh it.

Never once had to wait more than 5 to 8 mins at the steps to board.

billy few mates · 23-08-2019 2:17pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

As there is no alternative, there is an alternative for the vast majority of routes.

Ryanair isn't the best airline, however it's cheap, reliable and offers a wide variety of routes. That's what people care about, not whether their bi-annual flight is slightly more comfortable.

Yes but there's a world of difference between cheap and cheerful and cheap and nasty...

I'd rather take my chances with some of the other carriers that at least try to offer a level of customer service.
Whatever happened to that 'Always getting better' program they launched in a blaze of glory a few years ago..?

EverythingGood · 23-08-2019 2:18pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Which they kind of are if Aer Lingus for example don’t fly a route. Okay not forced but if Ryanair carry 189 pax to Porto from Dublin and Aer Lingus carry 0. That feeds into the overall total that Ryanair claim means people prefer them over EI. When the reality is, to declare a preference there has to be a valid choice.

But EI can't make routes work, be it from a numbers perspective, or a resource perspective, and FR can, so in reality FR are a better airline in many ways.

grimm2005 · 23-08-2019 2:18pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Which they kind of are if Aer Lingus for example don’t fly a route. Okay not forced but if Ryanair carry 189 pax to Porto from Dublin and Aer Lingus carry 0. That feeds into the overall total that Ryanair claim means people prefer them over EI. When the reality is, to declare a preference there has to be a valid choice.

If you are that averse to flying an airline there is always an alternative. There's a chap in work who refuses to fly with them and he regularly flies to Poland on a route that only Ryanair serve from Dublin and stops over in Germany every time rather than go direct.

That said, even the routes that have plenty of competition, the Ryanair flights are still regularly full, the point being that price is likely the number 1 factor for the majority of leisure passengers.

LeChienMefiant · 23-08-2019 2:26pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Which they kind of are if Aer Lingus for example don’t fly a route. Okay not forced but if Ryanair carry 189 pax to Porto from Dublin and Aer Lingus carry 0. That feeds into the overall total that Ryanair claim means people prefer them over EI. When the reality is, to declare a preference there has to be a valid choice.

If Ryanair are carrying 189 pax to Porto then Aer Lingus should be flying to Porto.

billy few mates · 23-08-2019 2:31pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

If Ryanair are carrying 189 pax to Porto then Aer Lingus should be flying to Porto.

Not if there isn't the yield to support the route, Aer Lingus don't have to automatically fly every route Ryanair fly, they don't have 400 odd aeroplanes to keep busy...

LeChienMefiant · 23-08-2019 2:32pm

billy few mates wrote: »

Not if there isn't the yield to support the route, Aer Lingus don't have to automatically fly every route Ryanair fly, they don't have 400 odd aeroplanes to keep busy...

Hence why they're not the number 2 (shortly to be number 1) airline in Europe. Lack of ambition.

EverythingGood · 23-08-2019 2:36pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

If Ryanair are carrying 189 pax to Porto then Aer Lingus should be flying to Porto.

No cos they can't compete with FR, or maybe demand isn't there for 2 daily flights ex Dub. Plus EI haven't enough planes or haven't the cost base to compete on every route.

Jack1985 · 23-08-2019 2:46pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

If Ryanair are carrying 189 pax to Porto then Aer Lingus should be flying to Porto.

And you've seen inside Ryanair's route revenue department I presume with your waffle of carrying 189 pax (on which day/flight etc)? Aer Lingus operate routes that have high yield performance and retention rates, they don't have much interest in operating routes which can't handle two carriers fighting over low yield.

Judging by your theory, EI operated the 105 yesterday with 301 in Y and 26 in J so FR should replicate that.. hang on they've two different business models. :rolleyes:

EverythingGood wrote: »

No cos they can't compete with FR, or maybe demand isn't there for 2 daily flights ex Dub. Plus EI haven't enough planes or haven't the cost base to compete on every route.

They've competed with FR since the latters inception in 1986, and compete successfully on the vast majority of routes.

EverythingGood · 23-08-2019 3:00pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

And you've seen inside Ryanair's route revenue department I presume with your waffle of carrying 189 pax (on which day/flight etc)? Aer Lingus operate routes that have high yield performance and retention rates, they don't have much interest in operating routes which can't handle two carriers fighting over low yield.

Judging by your theory, EI operated the 105 yesterday with 301 in Y and 26 in J so FR should replicate that.. hang on they've two different business models. :rolleyes:

They've competed with FR since the latters inception in 1986, and compete successfully on the vast majority of routes.

They've pulled out of Lisbon, Krakow, Warsaw in recent years due to competition and they complement FR routes rather than compete - Ryanair dominate flights to regional UK cities now and to Scotland.

In more recent years EI have changed philosophy and have concentrated on Atlantic routes and in turning Dublin into a hub for UK pax to get to the USA.

They have never entered into markets (nor had the imagination to think such markets could exist) that Ryanair created (all over Poland for example) - I don't really think it is true to say that EI and FR are competitors, FR blew them away years ago.

rivegauche · 23-08-2019 4:06pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Aer Lingus operate routes that have high yield performance and retention rates, they don't have much interest in operating routes which can't handle two carriers fighting over low yield.

I fly with Ryanair regularly on a route between two airports which "competes" with Aer Lingus i.e. same airports as origin and destination.
Ryanair is considerably cheaper and the consumed product is not different i.e. a random seat and that is about it.

billy few mates · 23-08-2019 4:16pm

It's all down to personal preference really, whether it be Lidl and M&S, Penny's and Brown Thomas or even Patrick Gilbauds and Macaris chipper, price, quality customer service all come into it. You can't really compare apples and oranges so long as everybody is happy that's all that matters.
As a passenger I also quite like the A320, I personally think they're more spacious and so much prefer to be on a packed Airbus than a packed B737 but maybe that's just me.
The important thing is we have a choice and long may that continue.

L1011 · 23-08-2019 6:23pm

EverythingGood wrote: »

They've pulled out of Lisbon, Krakow, Warsaw in recent years due to competition and they complement FR routes rather than compete - Ryanair dominate flights to regional UK cities now and to Scotland.

In more recent years EI have changed philosophy and have concentrated on Atlantic routes and in turning Dublin into a hub for UK pax to get to the USA.

They have never entered into markets (nor had the imagination to think such markets could exist) that Ryanair created (all over Poland for example) - I don't really think it is true to say that EI and FR are competitors, FR blew them away years ago.

Porto, not Lisbon. EI are double daily on LIS this year I believe

Regional UK cities have never worked for EI on point to point. Without the dual impact of connections and Regional it's likely only Glasgow, Manchester and Edinburgh would remain.

EverythingGood · 23-08-2019 6:28pm

L1011 wrote: »

Porto, not Lisbon. EI are double daily on LIS this year I believe

Regional UK cities have never worked for EI on point to point. Without the dual impact of connections and Regional it's likely only Glasgow, Manchester and Edinburgh would remain.

Correct, Porto, apologies, but the point stands, EI and FR are not really competitors, for many of us, FR's route network guarantees we fly with them more often than not.

Jack1985 · 23-08-2019 8:15pm

Eastern Europe is low fare dominated. EZY maintain Krakow only from the UK as it has inbound tourism potential, not primarily catering for the Polish flying to/from home. EI similarly aren't interested in competing on routes that I'll point out again have low yield potential.

rivegauche wrote: »

I fly with Ryanair regularly on a route between two airports which "competes" with Aer Lingus i.e. same airports as origin and destination.
Ryanair is considerably cheaper and the consumed product is not different i.e. a random seat and that is about it.

Sweeping statement tbh with a personal preference at the end, plenty of times during the Summer you'll find Aer Lingus can be cheaper on particular routes and similarly FR can be the same.

EverythingGood wrote: »

FR blew them away years ago.

The airline's results would dictate that your statement is factually inaccurate.

rivegauche · 23-08-2019 8:44pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Sweeping statement tbh with a personal preference at the end, plenty of times during the Summer you'll find Aer Lingus can be cheaper on particular routes and similarly FR can be the same

Not on this route, they're not.

Scoondal · 23-08-2019 8:48pm

If anyone doesn't like flying with Ryanair, my solution is ... dada ... don't fly with Ryanair. All this talk about routes and comparing airlines is complete rubbish. If Ryanair did not exist, what would you do and how much would it cost you ?

billy few mates · 23-08-2019 10:35pm

Scoondal wrote: »

If anyone doesn't like flying with Ryanair, my solution is ... dada ... don't fly with Ryanair. All this talk about routes and comparing airlines is complete rubbish. If Ryanair did not exist, what would you do and how much would it cost you ?

That's the beauty of it, you don't actually have to fly Ryanair to avail of cheap flights, it's a fact that other airlines set their prices relative to the Ryanair price point.
They normally don't try to match them on the headline €9.99 basement bargain flights but their prices will usually be slightly higher than their average or median fare with a few at top dollar.
I fly quite a bit but not much on Ryanair and for the last two summers while people were trying to avoid Ryanair because of the uncertainty the other airlines fares went noticeably through the roof because Ryanair were no longer setting the pace.

Jack1985 · 23-08-2019 10:52pm

<SNIP>

Cut it out, both of you, or take a short holiday, your choice

rivegauche · 23-08-2019 10:57pm

<SNIP>

Cut it out, both of you, or take a short holiday, your choice

1123heavy · 24-08-2019 9:27am

EverythingGood wrote: »

But EI can't make routes work, be it from a numbers perspective, or a resource perspective, and FR can, so in reality FR are a better airline in many ways.

Had to laugh at this. You mean EI can't get routes to work because they really can't or because Ryanair price dump wherever possible? In a way that aer lingus can't because their cost bases are higher due to actually paying their staff a respectable wage and providing something called customer service?

Dublin - Cork, a very profitable route for then Aer Arann often charging a reasonable 70eu return. What did Ryanair do? 9.99eu each way (they actually wanted to put Aer Arann out of business with that). Aer Arann had to stop and then Ryanair immediately reduced frequencies from 3 daily down to 1, then none at all.

Did the consumer benefit from this long term? Absolutely not.

Dublin - Vilnius, tried by Aer Lingus around 2007. What did Ryanair do? Same as cork, price dumping on a massive scale. As soon as aer lingus couldn't compete with the tactic Ryanair ramped up the prices to the point where it's essentially a full service carrier price for a low cost service.

Had the consumer benefited from this? Not at all.

So no, Ryanair are not the heroes without capes some seem to think of them as. They exist to make money out of you, whether you see it directly or not. Their ability to price dump is mainly aided by their abysmal treatment of staff which gives them an extremely low cost base.

General Ryanair discusion

Comments