Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

rolion · 08-01-2019 9:05pm

unkel wrote: »

A 2kwp system costs 1800+VAT in parts (everything included). So that's 2200 incl VAT. Plus install costs and profit. It takes about 1-2 man days to fit a system like that. So lets very generously say 400 labour and 500 profit, both plus VAT, so 2200 + (400+500)*123% = 3300 all in minus 1400 subsidy, so 1900 net to the owner incl VAT

Anything more and I would have question marks...

I will love to see a breakdown per part and per description / model type.
Looks like you work in the industry and i will love to see what type of panels,roof system and inverter type. I am not interested to purchase but just curios how you made the numbers...thanks.

Also,not sure if you self employed or private / public sector...or just taking the piss , but 2 people for two days labour quoted charge is something that i will not see it within the real life,maybe here,behind board's keyboard.
At that rate,the installer will work for the Revenue...unless is cash in hand,otherwise is a make up number to induce confussion here.
It will take at least half a day only to see the house and run a complete site inspection / survey to get the best ideea on how to fit it and what parts you need.Can't talk about other non visible calls... and after sales support and close "care" to close the installation.

Take care.

H.E. Pennypacker · 08-01-2019 9:29pm

unkel wrote: »

A 2kwp system costs 1800+VAT in parts (everything included). So that's 2200 incl VAT. Plus install costs and profit. It takes about 1-2 man days to fit a system like that. So lets very generously say 400 labour and 500 profit, both plus VAT, so 2200 + (400+500)*123% = 3300 all in minus 1400 subsidy, so 1900 net to the owner incl VAT

Anything more and I would have question marks...

Does that include an immersion diverter? The lowest price that I was quoted for that spec was €3800 including vat before grant. My install required an electrician and two roofers. I'm guessing that they would have cost a bit more than €400 for the day in total, especially if they were company employees with a PRSI overhead, which they appeared to be. I'd suggest that €3,800 is a realistic baseline price for a 2kwp system.

unkel · 08-01-2019 9:31pm

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Does that include an immersion diverter? The lowest price that I was quoted for that spec was €3800 including vat before grant.

No. An immersion diverter costs about €500 installed. So your figure of €3800 minus €500 for the diverter = €3300 incl VAT before subsidies is exactly the same as the figure I suggested

(Which allows for a reasonable profit / overhead)

unkel · 08-01-2019 9:39pm

rolion wrote: »

I will love to see a breakdown per part and per description / model type.
Looks like you work in the industry and i will love to see what type of panels,roof system and inverter type. I am not interested to purchase but just curios how you made the numbers...thanks.

Just ring any of the few wholesalers and they'll give you a total kit price (wholesale price) of around 1700 for a 7 panel system up to and including the inverter, add around 100 for materials for the electrician to do the system from inverter to consumer unit

rolion wrote: »

Also,not sure if you self employed or private / public sector...or just taking the piss , but 2 people for two days labour quoted charge is something that i will not see it within the real life,maybe here,behind board's keyboard.
At that rate,the installer will work for the Revenue...unless is cash in hand,otherwise is a make up number to induce confussion here.
It will take at least half a day only to see the house and run a complete site inspection / survey to get the best ideea on how to fit it and what parts you need.Can't talk about other non visible calls... and after sales support and close "care" to close the installation.

Take care.

I'm clearly talking all taxes paid here, I specifically added VAT to all the costs I quote. VAT at 23% on the lot and all. Labour for install + electrician in total is less than 2 man days on a basic straightforward install. Leaves a healthy overhead.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:36am

Thoughts folks?

I've got some quotes to mull over. Been quoted for standard glass on foil panels, and for more expensive glass on glass panels with a better warranty.

These prices are all after grant.

Cheaper panels (Peimar):
4kw with 2.4kwh battery - €4550
4kw with 4.8kwh battery - €5800

5kw with 2.4kwh battery - €6050
5kw with 4.8kwh battery - €7300

Premium panels (Solarwatt)
4kw with 2.4kwh battery - €6150
4kw with 4.8kwh battery - €7400

5kw with 2.4kwh battery - €7300
5kw with 4.8kwh battery - €8550

Battery and inverter are both by Growatt, 10 years warranty on inverter, 5 year on the battery.

The Peimar panels are guaranteed for 20 years to retain minimum 80% capacity.

The Solarwatt are guaranteed for 30 years for 87% capacity. The Solarwatt are also guaranteed against salt/corrosion.

I do have a high usage, averaging about 11 units per day and 15 per night (night rate tariff). Have some heavy use stuff like electric car charging (usually overnight) and a 400l tropical fish tank 24/7. Average bi-monthly bill is about €170 in summer and €230 in winter.

Thise prices also include immersion diverter (can be removed to drop the price by €450).

unkel · 09-01-2019 11:45am

I presume the inverter is 5kW and all prices are incl VAT?

DrPhilG wrote: »

4kw with 2.4kwh battery - €4550

Including the €450 immersion diverter, that is a great price. Out of all your options, that's the one I would pick. Reasons:

- you can always add more batteries yourself once the get cheaper. Easy DIY job (that said, their extra €1250 all in for another 2.4kWh is very reasonable given todays battery prices)

- not convinced about added benefits of the "better panels"

- the extra quoted for extra panels is expensive and does not get any subsidies. 1500 extra for 3 extra panels costing them 150 + vat each is not a great deal.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:46am

PS I'm in (not so) sunny Donegal and the panels would be on this garage roof which is my most southerly facing spot.

unkel · 09-01-2019 11:49am

Good spot, no shadowing, easy install as it is on a low roof (no scaffolding needed), this is reflected in the pretty low price you got quoted.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:49am

unkel wrote: »

I presume the inverter is 5kW and all prices are incl VAT?

Installer said that the inverter would depend on the size of panels used. He reckoned that you normally have an inverter close to the panel capacity to increase efficiency. I'm sure I could request a 5kw though.

Pretty sure it's including VAT but I'll check!

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:52am

unkel wrote: »

- not convinced about added benefits of the "better panels"

My wife is a stickler for quality (I mean, she married me...) and is swayed by the higher % and 10 years extra.

I'd be more inclined to go for the cheaper ones too but I can already imagine her face on year 21 when the cheap panels have dropped to 75% capacity...

Is 5 years a bit low on battery warranty?

unkel · 09-01-2019 11:53am

DrPhilG wrote: »

Installer said that the inverter would depend on the size of panels used. He reckoned that you normally have an inverter close to the panel capacity to increase efficiency. I'm sure I could request a 5kw though.

Pretty sure it's including VAT but I'll check!

It used to be the done thing to size the inverter a bit below the size of the panels, for maximum efficiency. Having looked at the efficiency curve of a few modern inverters, this no longer looks like a valid argument. A modern 5kW inverter should be over 90% efficient even at a load of just 500w. If it were me, I'd oversize the inverter if there is a reasonable chance you will increase your array in future.

What exactly is the model number of the inverter(s) they are proposing?

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:55am

Installer also sweetened the deal by offering a Zappi 2 car charger installed for €700, minus €600 grant which makes it damn near free considering that I could sell my old charger afterwards.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 12:01pm

unkel wrote: »

It used to be the done thing to size the inverter a bit below the size of the panels, for maximum efficiency.

That's what he said, yeah.

unkel wrote: »

What exactly is the model number of the inverter(s) they are proposing?

Growatt SPH series, so model presumably dependent on my requirement.

unkel · 09-01-2019 12:02pm

That's a helluva system with diverter, Zappi, battery and 4kwp for under 5k to you (you will need a BER after rating too). I'm very jealous

unkel · 09-01-2019 12:06pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Growatt SPH series, so model presumably dependent on my requirement.

Looks good. I would ask him for the 6kw version. It has dual MPPT so you could add another string with a different orientation, perhaps on your house (either west or east, depending on your electricity use during the day, in the future. EN50438 cert and all. Spec sheet:

Linky

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 12:10pm

unkel wrote: »

Looks good. I would ask him for the 6kw version. It has dual MPPT so you could add another string with a different orientation, perhaps on your house (either west or east, depending on your electricity use during the day, in the future. EN50438 cert and all. Spec sheet:

Linky

If I added more on the house, would that not require extra cabling from the house to the garage?

unkel · 09-01-2019 12:13pm

From the panels on the roof of your house, directly to the inverter. The roofers can do that for you or you can do it yourself. We are talking DC cabling with standard MC4 connections. You can buy cable with the MC4 connections prefitted already. It is just click and play. No need for any electrician in any of this.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 12:16pm

unkel wrote: »

From the panels on the roof of your house, directly to the inverter. The roofers can do that for you or you can do it yourself. We are talking DC cabling with standard MC4 connections. You can buy cable with the MC4 connections prefitted already. It is just click and play. No need for any electrician in any of this.

Won't the inverter and battery be in the garage though from the current planned install?

unkel · 09-01-2019 12:23pm

Yes, so you would need the solar DC cable to go from the roof of your house to your inverter in the garage.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 12:36pm

unkel wrote: »

Yes, so you would need the solar DC cable to go from the roof of your house to your inverter in the garage.

This would also require hell to freeze over before my wife would allow cabling across the yard, lol.

unkel · 09-01-2019 1:04pm

It's only an option

You might have more space on the roof shed after the 4kwp (13 panels?) install. You bothering with planning permission for the install?

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 1:11pm

unkel wrote: »

It's only an option

You might have more space on the roof shed after the 4kwp (13 panels?) install. You bothering with planning permission for the install?

Didn't think I need to!

unkel · 09-01-2019 1:13pm

Yes you do. No PP needed for installs up to 12m2 (7 panels max, so about 2kwp)

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 1:17pm

unkel wrote: »

Yes you do. No PP needed for installs up to 12m2 (7 panels max, so about 2kwp)

Oh piss, that's surely going to make it too expensive and add God knows how long?

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 1:49pm

Installer insists that since July 18 planning isn't required. Also they do the grant application etc so I only pay them the net amount anyway so if they don't get the grant through its their problem.

H.E. Pennypacker · 09-01-2019 1:59pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Installer insists that since July 18 planning isn't required. Also they do the grant application etc so I only pay them the net amount anyway so if they don't get the grant through its their problem.

The installer is wrong and you may be forced to remove the panels at your own expense (there was a recent case where a lady was made do just that). I’d also bet that the small print in your contract will leave you liable for the shortfalll.

Do you really want to deal with an installer who is either economical with the truth or lacks any understanding of their obligations?

The solar PV grant is a pilot project and is being very closely monitored by the SEAI.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 2:08pm

Thanks, that is dodgy for sure. He insists that the regulations changed in July, and that the "SEAI don't care about planning".

I've sent him back a link to the case of that woman in Limerick...

How long does a planning application take and is it expensive?

niallers1 · 09-01-2019 3:52pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Thanks, that is dodgy for sure. He insists that the regulations changed in July, and that the "SEAI don't care about planning".

I've sent him back a link to the case of that woman in Limerick...

How long does a planning application take and is it expensive?

Planning may have a problem with them being oversize but the SEAI will pay the grant if it is over the planning limit. I know this becuase I received the grant already from SEAI. (22.4 Sqm)
I just looked at your photo from earlier, nobody will have an issue with where you plan to put them.

In my case I paid 50% upfront, 30% when the panels were on the roof and working away and 20% when the grant application paperwork was all sorted with the SEAI.

Planning "should" catch up eventually with the grant size from SEAI.
In the case of Solar thermal, The planning law took the maximum size allowed from the maximum allowable grant from SEAI which was 12sqm at that time.

I have been told by somebody in the SEAI that increasing the allowable PV size is currently being discussed with planning.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 4:50pm

niallers1 wrote: »

I just looked at your photo from earlier, nobody will have an issue with where you plan to put them.

I wouldn't think so, but I'm not prepared to break the rules and hope for the best.

I'll have to either apply for planning, wait for the rules to change, or forget about it.

unkel · 09-01-2019 4:57pm

I'd say you're right, niallers1. And the case of the lady who got told to take down her panels. She had the front of her roof (in suburbun housing estate), facing the road, completely plastered in panels. And there was more to it than that iirc. I'd say DrPhilG has little to fear here with a one off remote house and panels on his shed. Personally I would prefer to have permission though. I don't think it would be hard to get and I don't think it's expensive

kceire is the planning expert here, he might come on to explain the details / the process

optip · 09-01-2019 6:06pm

6 kWp (20x300w panels) Solar PV system with 5kWh battery storage
Trina Panels / Sonnen Inverter & Batteries
€13,465.00 including VAT before grant (€9,665.00 net cost assuming 3800 grant)

wexfordman2 · 09-01-2019 9:15pm

unkel wrote: »

That's a helluva system with diverter, Zappi, battery and 4kwp for under 5k to you (you will need a BER after rating too). I'm very jealous

Yep, that's a Good price, I think I got a quote off the same crowd, but it wasn't as good as that.

One the panel warranty, i think/thought then diferrence in the premium panels was nit the warrandly lenght, but the depredation, with the glass glass ones not having as good a degredation curve. I was tempted for the glass glass for that reason, but in the end, I opted for the cheaper panel, but got a few more of them, which i figured would more than compensate for the slightly worse deterioration .

As unkel said, I would get a quote for the 6kwp using the standard cheper panels, you'll get more kwp and better degradation with a closer cost 5kwp versus a higher cost 4kwp (not saying cheapo panles, reputable ones).

The fact that you would have night rate, and an electric vehicle, two things to think about.

1) with night rate, there is an additional benefit, as during low porductiin periods, you can charge up at night time cheap rate, and discharge during the day. I have 6kwh battery, and these days find the battery drained by about 8pm.

The inverter has to be a hybrid inverter also.

2) For the reasons abive look at a bigger battery as well.

Get a quote for 6kwp with 5 or 6kwh battery, using the standard panels not the premium ones.

Can't remember what the second thing was :-)

Gumbo · 09-01-2019 11:07pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Thanks, that is dodgy for sure. He insists that the regulations changed in July, and that the "SEAI don't care about planning".

I've sent him back a link to the case of that woman in Limerick...

How long does a planning application take and is it expensive?

No rule change took place.
No regulations have changed and no new exemptions exist for solar panels.

The same 12 Sq. M or 50% roof coverage still applies.

Planning takes 8 weeks from the day you lodge to get a decision.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:18pm

kceire wrote: »

No rule change took place.
No regulations have changed and no new exemptions exist for solar panels.

The same 12 Sq. M or 50% roof coverage still applies.

Planning takes 8 weeks from the day you lodge to get a decision.

Thanks.

Any idea on cost of application?

Gumbo · 09-01-2019 11:57pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Thanks.

Any idea on cost of application?

Where are you based?

DrPhilG · 10-01-2019 12:05am

kceire wrote: »

Where are you based?

Donegal

DrPhilG · 10-01-2019 12:33am

wexfordman2 wrote: »

1) with night rate, there is an additional benefit, as during low production periods, you can charge up at night time cheap rate, and discharge during the day. I have 6kwh battery, and these days find the battery drained by about 8pm.

Is it worth the extra €1200 though? Don't think it would save more than €50 a year more than with the small battery which means a pretty huge payback time.

Given that the grant only covers the small battery, I think if be more inclined to look at second hand purchase and expansion later.

wexfordman2 · 10-01-2019 12:51am

DrPhilG wrote: »

Is it worth the extra €1200 though? Don't think it would save more than €50 a year more than with the small battery which means a pretty huge payback time.

Given that the grant only covers the small battery, I think if be more inclined to look at second hand purchase and expansion later.

Dunno, depends in your usage I suppose. But on night rate saving alone, an extra 2.5kwh will save you 91 euro (based on day rate of 20c, night rate of 10c) just charging at night and discharging during the day.

During the summer you save more as the 2.5kw would be charged for free, especially with 6kwp solar.

daheff · 11-01-2019 12:20am

Where do the batteries get physically located?

wexfordman2 · 11-01-2019 1:09am

daheff wrote: »

Where do the batteries get physically located?

Mine are in the attic, within a metre or so of the inverter .

daheff · 11-01-2019 12:30pm

daheff wrote: »

Where do the batteries get physically located?

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Mine are in the attic, within a metre or so of the inverter .

I don't have an attic...has anybody in a similar situation got batteries? And how big are they in size?

rolion · 11-01-2019 2:46pm

I will have to be really drunk or nuts to sign off an installation of PV batteries in the attic...

jspuds · 11-01-2019 2:50pm

rolion wrote: »

I will have to be really drunk or nuts to sign off an installation of PV batteries in the attic...

Was thinking the same

rolion · 11-01-2019 2:55pm

jspuds wrote: »

Was thinking the same

In Vino Veritas...

daheff · 11-01-2019 4:22pm

rolion wrote: »

I will have to be really drunk or nuts to sign off an installation of PV batteries in the attic...

so where would you put yours?

niallers1 · 11-01-2019 4:42pm

daheff wrote: »

I don't have an attic...has anybody in a similar situation got batteries? And how big are they in size?

My battery is in the corner of a converted attic under the inverter. Not where they can get too hot.
The battery doesn't take up much space and doesnt make any noise.
each battery is about 18inches by 18inces and 4 inches high stacked on top of each other.

rolion · 11-01-2019 5:24pm

daheff wrote: »

so where would you put yours?

Somewhere where i can see them any time.
Somewhere that it can be seen by any family member,just in case.
Somewhere where it has air cooling / ventilation and i can fit a fire alarm sensor and another house alarm wired sensor.
Somewhere,where i can walk in and out and just throw an eye on the status lights.
Somewhere,from where,worst case scanario,take and throw them away.

Im saving for this system H E R E ,so i don't have to be ashamed by the look or smell of the pack,i can fit it beside entrance door,i have the plan layoud already,just making up the evacuation plan...

Until then, be good.

Gumbo · 11-01-2019 5:53pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Donegal

Talk to BryanF or Muffler on this forum. They are based up there.
They be better placed to offer a price based on location as my work would be Dublin based.

DrPhilG · 11-01-2019 11:28pm

kceire wrote: »

Talk to BryanF or Muffler on this forum. They are based up there.
They be better placed to offer a price based on location as my work would be Dublin based.

I know Muffler, I'll drop him a message. Thanks

Kerryman3 · 13-01-2019 11:12pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Think that was referring to my quote

11k for 4kwp (actually 4.5kwp) with 5kwh hybrid battery, hot water diverter and non essential load config, including ber.

12k for same system but 6kwp solar.

Prices are including vat but excluding grant, so take away 3,800 from either price to get the end cost to you.

Hi wexfordman2, Could you pm me your installer too if not too much trouble? Thanks.

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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