Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

septicsac · 07-01-2019 07:45PM

According to electric Ireland website the average savings per yr would be 250 Euro...is that correct? If so the savings for a non battery system quoted to me would be a 12yr payback? If that is the case then methinks there might be bettr ways of spending the money?
Anyone any experience of real life savings, what they are saving on their monthly bill over the year?

wexfordman2 · 07-01-2019 07:46PM

rolion wrote: »

I'm sure here are installers and/or profesionals that works in various companies and they will give you more free info.
Me,as a normal user,i will get a quote to fullfill the south faciing roof to maximum capacity.
The bigger panel array,the more power generated ,bigger excess that can be diverted and faster RoI overall.

Not sure about your house consumption,keep an eye on the meter and/or the bill and see when is the maximum consumption and whats the daily house/occupiers routine.Took me at least 8 months to do the maths based on the Sun positions.

I can guess but i will say at least minimum 5KW installed power (thats 300W panels x 16,in an array of 8 each).
That should give you a good return in the winter days (around 1Kwh worst days) and 4.5Kwh summer time (enough to power the house and divert to hot water cylinder).

Good luck.

LaterEdit

ANYONE care to share their ouput for the past couple of weeks !?
Or are you afraid ...

I have 5.85kwh solar, and am getting at the momebnt typically 2kwh per day, but a good clear day have seen that go up to 8kwh. Only had it in about 3 weeks

My monitoring system is solarman, not sure how to share the data ?

wexfordman2 · 07-01-2019 07:50PM

septicsac wrote: »

I was thinking of investing in the PV solar power a while now, but the more I read hear the more confusing it gets. I have a large south facing dormer roof, could probably hold as many panels as is necessary. ESB bill roughly 130 pr month, 3 kids who love their devices and use plenty of hot water.
Had two quotes for systems without the battery:
Quote 1: 2.2kw system, 7 panels X 275 , with BER cert and diverter to heat water coming in at 3670 after grant and vat paid. Not sure whether this is around the going rate or not?
Quote 2: 1.8kw, standard inverter and diverter, 6 panels for 5200 after the grant, which sounds like they are completely taking the piss.
First quote was from company who would mainly do industrial installs and have done so for well renowned companies.
What kind of quotes are people getting for similar systems?
Is it worth going the battery option on this type of consumption?

I have a 5.85kwp solar, with 5kwh hybrid inverter, 6kwh battery and eddi hot water diverter. Price came in at 12k before grant, so 8,200 after grant.

Initial price from the same company for 4kwp solar, 5kwh battery and eddi diverter was 11k before grant, or 7,200 after grant.

also included was essential load wiring, to provide temporary power during outages. Debatable whether this will be of significant benefit, as 5kwh wont last long under normal house load, but if I managed it correctly, could get a few days out of it (keeping bb, and a few sockets for charging going)

rolion · 07-01-2019 07:51PM

septicsac wrote: »

According to electric Ireland website the average savings per yr would be 250 Euro...is that correct? If so the savings for a non battery system quoted to me would be a 12yr payback? If that is the case then methinks there might be bettr ways of spending the money?
Anyone any experience of real life savings, what they are saving on their monthly bill over the year?

Hard to say...i'm based Dublin,he's in Wexford...different location and appropiate system... from 1Kw to 8Kw massive difference isn't in a single day !??

Keep reading posts here and make your mind...is not like i will "invest" €8k and get them back in X years,never works like that, unfortunately whoever tells you about a RoI and payback period on PVs is fcuking lying and makes up the numbers for a well defined reason !

rolion · 07-01-2019 07:57PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

also included was essential load wiring, to provide temporary power during outages. Debatable whether this will be of significant benefit, as 5kwh wont last long under normal house load, but if I managed it correctly, could get a few days out of it (keeping bb, and a few sockets for charging going)

May i ask you how did you made the maths on the 6KW battery could get it for few days !? I guesstimate that at a decent 500Wh ,your battery will go off in 10ish hours. For few days ,you may need to keep maybe under 100Wh load.

My basic critical minimum lights, the heat pump in the gas boiler and house alarms takes around 350Wh on the UPS battery.

septicsac · 07-01-2019 07:59PM

Thanks for the replies:
1 What is the general consensus on payback time? More or less than what likes of electric Ireland quote?
2 Wexfordman2 can you pm me the name of your installer, like to get a quote of them just to see how it compares to ones I already got
3 I'm in the north east, south facing, but obviously not as well located for PV than those further south.
4 Is the 6kw battery one battery or a couple linked together?
5 Can you decide to divert to heat water before filling battery or does i have to charge fully before diverting to heat water?
Any info much appreciated.

wexfordman2 · 07-01-2019 08:03PM

rolion wrote: »

May i ask you how did you made the maths on the 6KW battery could get it for few days !? I guesstimate that at a decent 500Wh ,your battery will go off in 10ish hours. For few days ,you may need to keep maybe under 100Wh load.

My basic critical minimum lights, the heat pump in the gas boiler and house alarms takes around 350Wh on the UPS battery.

I am basing it on essential load only. My background consumption is around 400w, so yeah, based on that, abiut 12hrs.

However, i am going to implement essential load feature which I can wire a few sockets to, running lights, modem, router etc, so that should drop my background power dramatically during an outage.

Only thing I am not sure about is whether to keep the well runnnijg or not.

6kwh battery gives me about 5.4kwh as it knocks out at 10% power remaining.

KCross · 07-01-2019 08:14PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Only thing I am not sure about is whether to keep the well runnnijg or not.

I would consider that essential during an outage. It allows you to flush toilets and if you have a gas hob you can boil water etc. I would defo add the well to it and its not as if it is running all the time. It will only fire up when the pressure drops (i.e when you run water).

rolion · 07-01-2019 08:15PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

I am basing it on essential load only. My background consumption is around 400w, so yeah, based on that, abiut 12hrs.

However, i am going to implement essential load feature which I can wire a few sockets to, running lights, modem, router etc, so that should drop my background power dramatically during an outage.

Only thing I am not sure about is whether to keep the well runnnijg or not.

6kwh battery gives me about 5.4kwh as it knocks out at 10% power remaining.

I know the hibrid inverter has a internal AC side only port for loads that can be used when the main grid is islanded,separated from the main output AC only.
You may be able to play with that !?
Not sure how that works with the battery, to "play" with the settings.

rolion · 07-01-2019 08:19PM

KCross wrote: »

I would consider that essential during an outage. It allows you to flush toilets and if you have a gas hob you can boil water etc. I would defo add the well to it and its not as if it is running all the time. It will only fire up when the pressure drops (i.e when you run water).

I'll say that pump goes to initial start-up stage 1,000W then drops to a more half during consumption ?
Tought myself to make the water pump "critical" as well but it will just kill the battery much faster.

KCross · 07-01-2019 08:27PM

rolion wrote: »

I'll say that pump goes to initial start-up stage 1,000W then drops to a more half during consumption ?
Tought myself to make the water pump "critical" as well but it will just kill the battery much faster.

Depends on the pump.... have you got a variable speed pump?

And 1kW for a second or two is not going to kill the battery.

septicsac · 07-01-2019 08:59PM

What is the general consensus on payback time? More or less than what likes of electric Ireland quote?
2 Wexfordman2 can you pm me the name of your installer, like to get a quote of them just to see how it compares to ones I already got
3 I'm in the north east, south facing, but obviously not as well located for PV than those further south.
4 Is the 6kw battery one battery or a couple linked together?
5 Can you decide to divert to heat water before filling battery or does i have to charge fully before diverting to heat water?
Any info much appreciated.

unkel · 07-01-2019 10:14PM

Both quotes are very poor value for money for a small system. And don't get an diverter if you are getting a small solar system. If you go large (>=4kwp) I would consider it.

rolion · 07-01-2019 10:43PM

KCross wrote: »

Depends on the pump.... have you got a variable speed pump?

And 1kW for a second or two is not going to kill the battery.

Actually offtopic,yes is a VFD ( Variable Frequency Drive) but your post seriously throw me in the hot press where is the solar tubes pump....hmm,looks like a new cable has to be ran sooner.
Thanks.

unkel · 07-01-2019 10:59PM

septicsac wrote: »

What is the general consensus on payback time?

There is no concensus. It depends largely on your use. But even with the subsidies, it's not great. If I was forced to put a number on it:

A large 4kwp with a small battery and diverter at about €6k installed incl VAT and after subsidies might have a pay back time of about 10-15 years if you already have gas or oil. If you don't, then it's shorter

Any other systems, except cheap DIY installs, have longer payback times

bluesteel · 08-01-2019 09:27AM

Supply & fit 1.5kw - 2.0kw solar pv including certs, warranties & commissioning item €6,500.00

this quote is excluding VAT (and before 50% SEAI grant)

I got this quote as part of my DeepRetrofit application.

Surely this is taking the pi$$ because of the grant levels involved?

I think active8 are the subcontractor...

dathi · 08-01-2019 10:17AM

bluesteel wrote: »

this quote is excluding VAT (and before 50% SEAI grant)

I got this quote as part of my DeepRetrofit application.

Surely this is taking the pi$$ because of the grant levels involved?

I think active8 are the subcontractor...

think you have answered your own question search the forum for the company lots of posts about them

unkel · 08-01-2019 10:29AM

bluesteel wrote: »

I think active8 are the subcontractor...

But, but, they'll show you figures that prove that you will save €3k per year off your bills and the solar PV panels will heat your house in winter too!

And they'll give you €1,000 off for placing a sign in your garden promoting them. You can't lose here, great system. Make sure both yourself and your wife are there for the sales pitch, so you can sign the contract immediately. No pressure of course, no obligation at all. As long as you sign. How could you not sign, you'll be saving a fortune? Here's my pen. Yes sign right there. Now please.

A source in the industry told me they are the biggest and most profitable solar installer in the country. Imagine the number of people having been ripped off

bluesteel · 08-01-2019 11:34AM

dathi wrote: »

think you have answered your own question search the forum for the company lots of posts about them

Well yeah, I'd heard that TBH

Wondering if the retrofit company is in on it

Given the tax payer money at stake, and the fact that there are only a few viable contractors (for Deep Retrofit) makes me sick..

Are the SEAI a bunch of dopes or what? The PV panels are required to get the A rating so I can't even leave them out.

I've a good mind to contact someone in the media or maybe even the Green Party

Just to establish a baseline - what's a reasonable cost for this system (2kW)?

unkel · 08-01-2019 05:24PM

bluesteel wrote: »

Just to establish a baseline - what's a reasonable cost for this system (2kW)?

A 2kwp system costs 1800+VAT in parts (everything included). So that's 2200 incl VAT. Plus install costs and profit. It takes about 1-2 man days to fit a system like that. So lets very generously say 400 labour and 500 profit, both plus VAT, so 2200 + (400+500)*123% = 3300 all in minus 1400 subsidy, so 1900 net to the owner incl VAT

Anything more and I would have question marks...

rolion · 08-01-2019 09:05PM

unkel wrote: »

A 2kwp system costs 1800+VAT in parts (everything included). So that's 2200 incl VAT. Plus install costs and profit. It takes about 1-2 man days to fit a system like that. So lets very generously say 400 labour and 500 profit, both plus VAT, so 2200 + (400+500)*123% = 3300 all in minus 1400 subsidy, so 1900 net to the owner incl VAT

Anything more and I would have question marks...

I will love to see a breakdown per part and per description / model type.
Looks like you work in the industry and i will love to see what type of panels,roof system and inverter type. I am not interested to purchase but just curios how you made the numbers...thanks.

Also,not sure if you self employed or private / public sector...or just taking the piss , but 2 people for two days labour quoted charge is something that i will not see it within the real life,maybe here,behind board's keyboard.
At that rate,the installer will work for the Revenue...unless is cash in hand,otherwise is a make up number to induce confussion here.
It will take at least half a day only to see the house and run a complete site inspection / survey to get the best ideea on how to fit it and what parts you need.Can't talk about other non visible calls... and after sales support and close "care" to close the installation.

Take care.

H.E. Pennypacker · 08-01-2019 09:29PM

unkel wrote: »

A 2kwp system costs 1800+VAT in parts (everything included). So that's 2200 incl VAT. Plus install costs and profit. It takes about 1-2 man days to fit a system like that. So lets very generously say 400 labour and 500 profit, both plus VAT, so 2200 + (400+500)*123% = 3300 all in minus 1400 subsidy, so 1900 net to the owner incl VAT

Anything more and I would have question marks...

Does that include an immersion diverter? The lowest price that I was quoted for that spec was €3800 including vat before grant. My install required an electrician and two roofers. I'm guessing that they would have cost a bit more than €400 for the day in total, especially if they were company employees with a PRSI overhead, which they appeared to be. I'd suggest that €3,800 is a realistic baseline price for a 2kwp system.

unkel · 08-01-2019 09:31PM

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Does that include an immersion diverter? The lowest price that I was quoted for that spec was €3800 including vat before grant.

No. An immersion diverter costs about €500 installed. So your figure of €3800 minus €500 for the diverter = €3300 incl VAT before subsidies is exactly the same as the figure I suggested

(Which allows for a reasonable profit / overhead)

unkel · 08-01-2019 09:39PM

rolion wrote: »

I will love to see a breakdown per part and per description / model type.
Looks like you work in the industry and i will love to see what type of panels,roof system and inverter type. I am not interested to purchase but just curios how you made the numbers...thanks.

Just ring any of the few wholesalers and they'll give you a total kit price (wholesale price) of around 1700 for a 7 panel system up to and including the inverter, add around 100 for materials for the electrician to do the system from inverter to consumer unit

rolion wrote: »

Also,not sure if you self employed or private / public sector...or just taking the piss , but 2 people for two days labour quoted charge is something that i will not see it within the real life,maybe here,behind board's keyboard.
At that rate,the installer will work for the Revenue...unless is cash in hand,otherwise is a make up number to induce confussion here.
It will take at least half a day only to see the house and run a complete site inspection / survey to get the best ideea on how to fit it and what parts you need.Can't talk about other non visible calls... and after sales support and close "care" to close the installation.

Take care.

I'm clearly talking all taxes paid here, I specifically added VAT to all the costs I quote. VAT at 23% on the lot and all. Labour for install + electrician in total is less than 2 man days on a basic straightforward install. Leaves a healthy overhead.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:36AM

Thoughts folks?

I've got some quotes to mull over. Been quoted for standard glass on foil panels, and for more expensive glass on glass panels with a better warranty.

These prices are all after grant.

Cheaper panels (Peimar):
4kw with 2.4kwh battery - €4550
4kw with 4.8kwh battery - €5800

5kw with 2.4kwh battery - €6050
5kw with 4.8kwh battery - €7300

Premium panels (Solarwatt)
4kw with 2.4kwh battery - €6150
4kw with 4.8kwh battery - €7400

5kw with 2.4kwh battery - €7300
5kw with 4.8kwh battery - €8550

Battery and inverter are both by Growatt, 10 years warranty on inverter, 5 year on the battery.

The Peimar panels are guaranteed for 20 years to retain minimum 80% capacity.

The Solarwatt are guaranteed for 30 years for 87% capacity. The Solarwatt are also guaranteed against salt/corrosion.

I do have a high usage, averaging about 11 units per day and 15 per night (night rate tariff). Have some heavy use stuff like electric car charging (usually overnight) and a 400l tropical fish tank 24/7. Average bi-monthly bill is about €170 in summer and €230 in winter.

Thise prices also include immersion diverter (can be removed to drop the price by €450).

unkel · 09-01-2019 11:45AM

I presume the inverter is 5kW and all prices are incl VAT?

DrPhilG wrote: »

4kw with 2.4kwh battery - €4550

Including the €450 immersion diverter, that is a great price. Out of all your options, that's the one I would pick. Reasons:

- you can always add more batteries yourself once the get cheaper. Easy DIY job (that said, their extra €1250 all in for another 2.4kWh is very reasonable given todays battery prices)

- not convinced about added benefits of the "better panels"

- the extra quoted for extra panels is expensive and does not get any subsidies. 1500 extra for 3 extra panels costing them 150 + vat each is not a great deal.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:46AM

PS I'm in (not so) sunny Donegal and the panels would be on this garage roof which is my most southerly facing spot.

unkel · 09-01-2019 11:49AM

Good spot, no shadowing, easy install as it is on a low roof (no scaffolding needed), this is reflected in the pretty low price you got quoted.

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:49AM

unkel wrote: »

I presume the inverter is 5kW and all prices are incl VAT?

Installer said that the inverter would depend on the size of panels used. He reckoned that you normally have an inverter close to the panel capacity to increase efficiency. I'm sure I could request a 5kw though.

Pretty sure it's including VAT but I'll check!

DrPhilG · 09-01-2019 11:52AM

unkel wrote: »

- not convinced about added benefits of the "better panels"

My wife is a stickler for quality (I mean, she married me...) and is swayed by the higher % and 10 years extra.

I'd be more inclined to go for the cheaper ones too but I can already imagine her face on year 21 when the cheap panels have dropped to 75% capacity...

Is 5 years a bit low on battery warranty?

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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