Tesla Model S

unkel · 07-07-2017 1:01pm

The $30k US CPO models mostly sold within minutes! Jaysus that's €26k. Some car for the money :eek:

I'll start a little game here for the craic. How much will Tesla Ireland want from me in cash, trading in my Ioniq for the cheapest CPO Model S (on Irish plates) they can offer me when I test drive it in a few weeks time?

<=€15k
€20k
€25k
€30k
€35k
€40k
>=€45k?

ELM327 · 07-07-2017 1:10pm

Fun game but they don't have CPO tesla in Ireland yet!

unkel · 07-07-2017 1:16pm

They will soon. And they are able to source a car from the UK and sell it as CPO here. Tesla Ireland employee told me this himself. Now go on and play the game

ELM327 · 07-07-2017 1:23pm

unkel wrote: »

They will soon. And they are able to source a car from the UK and sell it as CPO here. Tesla Ireland employee told me this himself. Now go on and play the game

Ah, that's not what they told me!
So i'd assume they will give you blue book value for your Ioniq as they won't want to deal with the hassle. I'll assume also a value of €60k on the cheapest CPO S here, due to VRT. Allow €24k for your Ioniq to leave a margin on it for them, so I'd assume they will want approx 36k cash for a model S.

Q.E.D.

07-07-2017 1:45pm

Imagine you could get the CPO on PCP !!!

tedpan · 07-07-2017 1:58pm

Sabre Man wrote:

New Model S and X will now perform even better 0-100

Those specs are way off.. the p100d model S does 0-100km/h(0-62mp/h) in around 2.7-2.9 seconds. The link specified 4.2

tedpan · 07-07-2017 2:00pm

Deleted User wrote:

Imagine you could get the CPO on PCP !!!

I'm guessing it could be an option soon. Plenty of dealerships are doing PCP on up to 3 year old cars

ELM327 · 07-07-2017 2:13pm

tedpan wrote: »

Those specs are way off.. the p100d model S does 0-100km/h(0-62mp/h) in around 2.7-2.9 seconds. The link specified 4.2

It's not the "p" models, just the standard model S100/S70

tedpan wrote: »

I'm guessing it could be an option soon. Plenty of dealerships are doing PCP on up to 3 year old cars

You can definitely get "Tesla Finance" on any CPO car so far. They may change this as the oldest model S reaches 4+ years.

Sabre Man · 25-07-2017 12:18pm

The prices were recently reduced and until the end of the year you can get a €1000 discount + free supercharging by using a referral code. Feel free to PM me if anyone needs one.

useless · 26-07-2017 11:38pm

I test drove a Model X recently. Had never driven an electric car before. Interesting experience. First, it was an 8 week wait to get an appointment for a Saturday test drive... the sales guys were on a different planet altogether from other marques in terms of their product knowledge. Almost evangelical about Tesla. Refreshing but almost a little bit creepy...but maybe Im too used to dealing with sales guys who know SFA about their product. No hard sell whatsoever, just answers to all my questions and a torrent of information on the car, charging, pricing, etc. Very impressive.

Car itself was extraordinary- above and beyond my expectations. Feels like you sit somewhere between an MPV and SUV in terms of height. Huge windscreen makes it feel a little like a spaceship. Theres a load of 'theatre'- doors opening on approach, electric closing, seats and steering moving into position when it senses which key is being used (as well as a host of other driver profile features) etc. I'd seen the Model S at a motor show four years ago and was very unimpressed with the build quality- all i can say is they've gotten better at it. Not quite as good as a Q7 or XC90 in terms of fit and finish but not far off at all.

The control screen takes some getting used to- but interestingly so many items can be configured to the driver profile on the key that it actually negates the need to use it too often. One cool feature was where the car 'learns' the road, and if it spots, say, a speedbump, it raises the air suspension to allow the car to clear it safely. The really cool bit is where it geolocates that speedbump, remembers it for the next time you travel that road, then uploads it to Tesla where it is disseminated to all the other Teslas so they can react in the same way if they ever travel the same road.
Auto cruise control in traffic was cool, if a little unnerving, i found it hard to 'trust' the car was going to brake! The fact that there's no 'coast' was also a strange sensation- once you come off the throttle, the car immediately feels like its braking, unlike an ICE automatic.

The acceleration was just immense (and this was the 'cooking' version; no Ludicrous mode) and delivered so silently and smoothly it was like nothing Id ever seen. I would lose my licence in a week...
Only downside was the price, at roughly 120k for the smallest battery model (300km range) with a couple of extras, after all grants. It's a lot of money- but I would guess if you were a business owner looking at leasing a high spec X5 or Q7, this would be a far more interesting alternative for not a lot more outlay. Im definitely getting one if my lotto numbers come up.

zilog_jones · 27-07-2017 10:59am

useless wrote: »

The fact that there's no 'coast' was also a strange sensation- once you come off the throttle, the car immediately feels like its braking, unlike an ICE automatic.

In most (all?) hybrids and EVs, they will normally apply mild regenerative braking when no throttle is applied. You can increase this in some by putting in B mode, and others you have more control over how much regen to apply. Not sure what the options in Teslas are regarding this.

TBi · 27-07-2017 11:59am

zilog_jones wrote: »

INot sure what the options in Teslas are regarding this.

Tesla is fully configurable. you can turn it off if you want to.

unkel · 01-08-2017 5:04pm

Test drove the S90D today (no performance model, not the fastest, so no ludicrous mode), 0-100km/h in 4.4s which is pretty fast for a large saloon (a BMW M5 V10 5l is slower)

Grip was enormous with the 4WD, accelerating even while cornering was very impressive (forget about that in a FWD budget EV like a Leaf or Ioniq). Doesn't feel like a 2,300kg car. Tesla staff were just superb. Very knowledgeable yet relaxed & friendly. They also knew specific details about other EVs (like Ioniq) so they are clearly also enthusiasts. I got the impression that they can't wait to start selling more cars. CPO Model S maybe some time soon (they had about 10 second hand UK reg cars on the premises). And the Model 3 in a few years time of course.

Mope · 03-08-2017 5:18pm

Any more feedback about the car? Did you test drive it for one hour? Any other points you remember? :]

unkel · 03-08-2017 6:15pm

Sure. Some more of my thoughts, not just about having driven a near €100k value, 1 year old S90D, but also about contemplating buying a used Tesla, worth not much more than half that. Which is probably more interesting and realistic for most people in here

Very impressive car, effortless to drive, but I found the 4WD a bit clinical. That's me though, I didn't like the 4WD in an Audi TT either. I probably would prefer RWD only. Supremely comfortable car to travel long distances in with 5 people, even 5 full size adults. But it isn't necessarily that much of a drivers car, like say a powerful petrol BMW saloon. It did feel like I was driving the safest car in the world. Which it probably is. And the boot space (*2) is very impressive

The big touch screen is very impressive, and the controls are very cool, but you do get a sense that the Model S no longer represents the most up to date technology in some ways. Which is not surprising as the car is several years old. No wireless Qi charging (Model 3 has that as standard I believe, but so has a 2016MY €25k Ioniq). No Android Auto / Apply Carplay. And the Autopilot (which is not standard on the Model S - I'd say most cars within above budget don't have it) feels smooth but for now it is only a tiny step up from level 2 autonomous driving that come as standard again with a 2016MY Ioniq (it can overtake by itself and it can park itself). And this generation of Autopilot can never be software upgraded to full autonomous driving. The hardware isn't in the car.

Controlling the car by app when you are outside it brings a massive smile on your face, but I'd say that gets boring soon and doesn't have much practical application for most people. Visibility is great, so is the lovely optional sunroof.

Build quality, reliability and insurance would be my major worries comtemplating buying a Model S. I'd be confident enough though about the 4 year warranty that comes with CPO cars.

All in all I feel Teslas new are very good value for money. But as they depreciate less than any other car in the market, they represent not great value for money second hand. And where free supercharging for life is great for someone driving cross continent in Europe all the time, it has very little or no value in Ireland

Tesla offered a batch of CPO Model S in the USA for around the $30k-$40k range a month or two ago. If I lived there, I would have bought one. Here? For at least €50k? Not so much. Not now anyway. I'll sleep on it for a bit...

Slaanesh · 04-08-2017 11:51am

unkel wrote: »

Sure. Some more of my thoughts, not just about having driven a near €100k value, 1 year old S90D, but also about contemplating buying a used Tesla, worth not much more than half that. Which is probably more interesting and realistic for most people in here

Very impressive car, effortless to drive, but I found the 4WD a bit clinical. That's me though, I didn't like the 4WD in an Audi TT either. I probably would prefer RWD only. Supremely comfortable car to travel long distances in with 5 people, even 5 full size adults. But it isn't necessarily that much of a drivers car, like say a powerful petrol BMW saloon. It did feel like I was driving the safest car in the world. Which it probably is. And the boot space (*2) is very impressive

The big touch screen is very impressive, and the controls are very cool, but you do get a sense that the Model S no longer represents the most up to date technology in some ways. Which is not surprising as the car is several years old. No wireless Qi charging (Model 3 has that as standard I believe, but so has a 2016MY €25k Ioniq). No Android Auto / Apply Carplay. And the Autopilot (which is not standard on the Model S - I'd say most cars within above budget don't have it) feels smooth but for now it is only a tiny step up from level 2 autonomous driving that come as standard again with a 2016MY Ioniq (it can overtake by itself and it can park itself). And this generation of Autopilot can never be software upgraded to full autonomous driving. The hardware isn't in the car.

Controlling the car by app when you are outside it brings a massive smile on your face, but I'd say that gets boring soon and doesn't have much practical application for most people. Visibility is great, so is the lovely optional sunroof.

Build quality, reliability and insurance would be my major worries comtemplating buying a Model S. I'd be confident enough though about the 4 year warranty that comes with CPO cars.

All in all I feel Teslas new are very good value for money. But as they depreciate less than any other car in the market, they represent not great value for money second hand. And where free supercharging for life is great for someone driving cross continent in Europe all the time, it has very little or no value in Ireland

Tesla offered a batch of CPO Model S in the USA for around the $30k-$40k range a month or two ago. If I lived there, I would have bought one. Here? For at least €50k? Not so much. Not now anyway. I'll sleep on it for a bit...

Great review Unkel! Next week I'm going on a roadtrip up to Donegal. A friend of a friend owns a P90D Model X and as I'm such a fanboy had no problem with me tagging along! I'll try give a review when I get back and how it handles on dodgy roads etc. Bloody thing costs the same as my house!

MM3 · 05-08-2017 2:36pm

I'd be in the market for a second hand S if they were available here with a warranty so I popped into the Sandyford showroom yesterday and asked were they planning to bring in 2nd hand cars from the UK and was told they had no intention to do so and that the only 2nd hand cars they would be selling would be irish reg'd cars that been taken in as trade in's. Salesman was pretty categorical about it....

M

unkel · 05-08-2017 3:04pm

They weren't as categorical to me as that, but they clearly stated they had no concrete short term plans. But why on earth would they have 10 UK reg Model S and Model X on the premises if they didn't intend to sell them?

Sabre Man · 05-08-2017 3:17pm

unkel wrote: »

They weren't as categorical to me as that, but they clearly stated they had no concrete short term plans. But why on earth would they have 10 UK reg Model S and Model X on the premises if they didn't intend to sell them?

Test drives, events (they were in Cork recently) and loaner cars when someone needs to leave their car with Tesla for service/repairs.

unkel · 05-08-2017 6:25pm

2 or 3 would be plenty for that

And on top of that it's illegal for Irish residents (Tesla staff, punters) to drive foreign reg cars. They should have at least one car on an Irish reg already.

goz83 · 05-08-2017 7:29pm

unkel wrote: »

2 or 3 would be plenty for that

And on top of that it's illegal for Irish residents (Tesla staff, punters) to drive foreign reg cars. They should have at least one car on an Irish reg already.

That's what the Accent on the left is for :P

cros13 · 05-08-2017 8:22pm

What's holding up CPO Model S coming into the country is Revenue.

The SIMI dealers deliberately juked the OMSP of used Model S and Tesla will have to undo the damage.

Currently the OMSP in the system on a two year old Model S is higher than the actual retail price in Ireland of a new Model S.

But I'm reasonably certain a resolution to that is coming in the next few months.

unkel · 05-08-2017 8:46pm

Where did you get that from?

Afaik SIMI doesn't determine the OMSP, it is the distributor (as in Tesla themselves) - obviously within reason.

A new base Model S Tesla costs about the same in the UK as it does here (£70k vs €83k), so it is reasonable to make the OMSP of second hand ones about the same too

If so, the OMSP of the cheapest second hand Model S (£40k) should be €45k, hence it will attract €1,400 VRT (14% * (€45k-€35k exemption))

My guess is that if Tesla started selling CPO cars here at not much more than the cost to them of getting them in (they seem to sell at private car price value, even wholesale auction value, in the UK and the USA), so from about €47k on Irish reg and with 4 years full warranty, they would sell quite a few of them

cros13 · 05-08-2017 8:52pm

unkel wrote: »

Where did you get that from?

Afaik SIMI doesn't determine the OMSP, it is the distributor (as in Tesla themselves) - obviously within reason.

Several SIMI dealers in Dublin imported Model S or got them in trade prior to Tesla setting up here. Advertised them for ridiculous prices and the OMSP for imports was set based on those.

unkel · 05-08-2017 8:53pm

Only dawned on me now why on earth Tesla are selling second hand Model S with 4 year full warranty for about or even below private sale, caveat emptor, cars. In the UK and USA and maybe other countries). It is hugely important to them that the owners will continue to have a superb ownership experience. How to do that when the cars aren't the most reliable / prone to needing expensive repairs? And how to do that without it costing the world?

Precisely. Buying up many second hand coming into the market (from dealers and private sellers) and selling them on, with a 4 year old guarantee. Clever.

unkel · 05-08-2017 8:54pm

cros13 wrote: »

Several SIMI dealers in Dublin imported Model S or got them in trade prior to Tesla setting up here. Advertised them for ridiculous prices and the OMSP for imports was set based on those.

OK fair enough, but that's no longer the case with Tesla now represented here. Sneaky tactics all the same

cros13 · 05-08-2017 9:00pm

unkel wrote: »

OK fair enough, but that's no longer the case with Tesla now represented here. Sneaky tactics all the same

True, Tesla will get it sorted out. But we can add one more flaw to the VRT system.

If you are a manufacturer without a SIMI member to act as an agent, your competitors can set the OMSP on your vehicle to kill grey market imports.

unkel · 05-08-2017 9:07pm

So presumably Tesla have applied for membership then?

la ultima guagua · 05-08-2017 11:08pm

As Unkel pointed out in his excellent report on his roadtest, old Teslas are rapidly going obsolete

Tesla need all the cash they can get to fund their expansion

They do not want to be sitting on a stock of fast depreciating cars that have come back off lease

It makes prefect sense for them to move cars back from lease at book value ( or, perhaps, marginally below book )

Perhaps the second user Tesla business is closer to CEX than Frank Keane

?

unkel · 09-08-2017 7:37pm

Problem is, the Model S doesn't seem to be depreciating fast at all! In fact it is the car with the lowest depreciation of all mainstream cars.

Did see one go (ex PSV) in good condition with 72k miles for GBP33k, but that might have been a trade-only auction. Does give hope as at that price (presuming our OMSP is similar) there is feck all VRT to be paid. I don't rule out owning one of these animals over the next few years yet

Anyone know, did the early UK cars get a warranty extension from Tesla from 4 years to 8 years too like in the USA? Full warranty or just drive train? Iirc the battery itself was always 8 years and there don't seem to be any problems with these.

Tesla Model S

Comments