Drew Harris appointed Garda commissioner.

Are Am Eye · 12-09-2018 5:39pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The van used in the raid this morning b y the " Garda" was and English reg

yourdeadwright wrote: »

To be clear the Garda claimed it was not them it was a private company

That's not a 'to be clear'. You're not clarifying anything. You're changing your story. First you said it was the guards. Then when you found out guards don't have to tax vans you now want to change your whinge to something else.

yourdeadwright · 12-09-2018 5:42pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The UK dont use tax discs and haven;t for a while. I'm not sure what evidence a UK driver would even have that a vehicle is taxed.

Well the websites is there to check , i can check , u can check , anyome can check , iv had a car impouded before i got to VRT it before by the Garda ,

People will stick there head in the sand as usual but awful strange timing of this ,

Also the comments about the biggest current treath to irish people shows the new man in charge is out of touch

ohnonotgmail · 12-09-2018 5:45pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Well the websites is there to check , i can check , u can check , anyome can check , iv had a car impouded before i got to VRT it before by the Garda ,

People will stick there head in the sand as usual but awful strange timing of this ,

Also the comments about the biggest current treath to people shows the new man in charge is out of touch

Well i'm glad that you think the gardai should prioritise a tax offence in another jurisdiction over public order. What offence did the van owner actually commit btw?

yourdeadwright · 12-09-2018 5:49pm

Are Am Eye wrote: »

That's not a 'to be clear'. You're not clarifying anything. You're changing your story. First you said it was the guards. Then when you found out guards don't have to tax vans you now want to change your whinge to something

They said it wasnt them it was a private company after the story and the connection of an old Police van was made ,
One way it another they lied , they said the Van was taxed and insured which is a lie ,

Odhinn · 12-09-2018 5:52pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well i'm glad that you think the gardai should prioritise a tax offence in another jurisdiction over public order. What offence did the van owner actually commit btw?

If public order means enabling a masked bunch of heavies by a masked bunch of state employed heavies I think we need to stop and consider where we're going.

yourdeadwright · 12-09-2018 5:53pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well i'm glad that you think the gardai should prioritise a tax offence in another jurisdiction over public order. What offence did the van owner actually commit btw?

There is no owner as its not registered,
So the Garda let 15/20 masked men , who showed no ID to the ocuppents remove them with force all while driving an unregistered ,untaxed van ,

There doing a super jon

ohnonotgmail · 12-09-2018 5:56pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

There is no owner as its not registered,

the vehicle is registered. It isn't taxed. Not the same thing.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So the Garda let 15/20 masked men , who showed no ID to the ocuppents remove them with force all while driving an unregistered ,untaxed van ,

There doing a super jon

how do you know this?

blanch152 · 12-09-2018 6:00pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

There is no owner as its not registered,
So the Garda let 15/20 masked men , who showed no ID to the ocuppents remove them with force all while driving an unregistered ,untaxed van ,

There doing a super jon

Why would ID have to be shown?

Surely all they need to show the occupants is a copy of the Court Order and a letter authorising the bearer of the letter to carry out the Court's order. That would be sufficient.

Edgware · 12-09-2018 6:02pm

The squatters wouldn't obey the Court order so they can't whinge when they are thrown out. Who gives a ****e about them

Edgware · 12-09-2018 6:04pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Why would ID have to be shown?

Surely all they need to show the occupants is a copy of the Court Order and a letter authorising the bearer of the letter to carry out the Court's order. That would be sufficient.

And of course the squatters would have left then.
Ya they would!

Are Am Eye · 12-09-2018 6:08pm

They said it wasnt them it was a private company after the story and the connection of an old Police van was made ,
One way it another they lied , they said the Van was taxed and insured which is a lie ,

The truth is you don't know who owns the van.

Show proof otherwise.

Edgware · 12-09-2018 6:13pm

Are Am Eye wrote: »

The truth is you don't know who owns the van.

Show proof otherwise.

Didn't Jimmy Rabbite have a van?

yourdeadwright · 12-09-2018 6:34pm

Are Am Eye wrote: »

The truth is you don't know who owns the van.

Show proof otherwise.

I know i dont know one does as it is not registered , the men in the mask got out of it and drove it away

yourdeadwright · 12-09-2018 6:49pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Why would ID have to be shown?

Surely all they need to show the occupants is a copy of the Court Order and a letter authorising the bearer of the letter to carry out the Court's order. That would be sufficient.

Because its a law under section 30 of the Irish private secruity service act ,

Do mean to tell me if you some how fell behind on repayments for you house and a lad showed up at your door with a letter and no ID ud leave ur house , Get a grip will ye

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-09-2018 7:24pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Because its a law under section 30 of the Irish private secruity service act ,

Do mean to tell me if you some how fell behind on repayments for you house and a lad showed up at your door with a letter and no ID ud leave ur house , Get a grip will ye

This only relates to security guards and doormen? Where these guys employed as security/door staff?

12-09-2018 7:33pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do mean to tell me if you some how fell behind on repayments for you house and a lad showed up at your door with a letter and no ID ud leave ur house , Get a grip will ye

Not at all the same as a lot of squatters in a house they neither pay for, not have fallen behind in payments on.

yourdeadwright · 12-09-2018 7:34pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This only relates to security guards and doormen? Where these guys employed as security/door staff?

No it relates to any private secyrity employee in Ireland , Read the act

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-09-2018 7:39pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No it relates to any private secyrity employee in Ireland , Read the act

Ok let me reword it, were these guys employed as security?

end of the road · 12-09-2018 9:19pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Why would ID have to be shown?

Surely all they need to show the occupants is a copy of the Court Order and a letter authorising the bearer of the letter to carry out the Court's order. That would be sufficient.

it wouldn't be sufficient no . they need to have identification so that if they break the law they can be prosecuted.

Del.Monte · 12-09-2018 9:22pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Because our police force, unlike other modern forces, also oversees national security and associated intelligence.

I'm not sure anyone in the UK would be too keen on an Irish Garda heading up MI5, I wouldn't blame them, and I'd hardly call them paranoid for having real concern about that.

What is this 'national security' info that you're afraid Drew Harris might pass on to MI5? Everyone knows that Bertie never had a bank account and that the Nuclear bunker is under the Costume Barracks in Athlone https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/in-pictures-inside-irelands-secret-vip-nuclear-bunker-36285102.html .

Hurrache · 12-09-2018 9:27pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Because its a law under section 30 of the Irish private secruity service act ,

Do mean to tell me if you some how fell behind on repayments for you house and a lad showed up at your door with a letter and no ID ud leave ur house , Get a grip will ye

Keyword there is "your", 'your" house. The premises had nothing to do with those removed, they never had any sort of entitlement to enter,, never mind stay.

You seem to be very concerned about the non existent law that they had to show ID over the actual legal requirement that those inside were court ordered to leave.

I posted yesterday that the law you, and many others, are still trying to claim was broken doesn't apply here. Even the company that issues such licenses had to clarify that today but yet members of Sinn Fein and those that were kicked out tried to claim they acted illegally by not displaying id.

Esel · 12-09-2018 9:56pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I am sure that when the Gardai have recovered from being battered and bruised by idiotic protesters committing multiple offences that they will follow up on a missing tax disc.

I did not see any Gardaí being "battered and bruised", did you? Do you have any proof?

end of the road · 12-09-2018 10:08pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Keyword there is "your", 'your" house. The premises had nothing to do with those removed, they never had any sort of entitlement to enter,, never mind stay.

You seem to be very concerned about the non existent law that they had to show ID over the actual legal requirement that those inside were court ordered to leave.

I posted yesterday that the law you, and many others, are still trying to claim was broken doesn't apply here. Even the company that issues such licenses had to clarify that today but yet members of Sinn Fein and those that were kicked out tried to claim they acted illegally by not displaying id.

well, if sf and others causing a storm over these hired goons brings change such as them hopefully being regulated under the PSA like they should, then what's the problem with that?

opfleet · 13-09-2018 7:25pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The gardai have no way of knowing if an english vehicle is taxed.

That's where your wrong...All they have to do is send an email with the reg to the police and they get a reply very quickly.

opfleet · 13-09-2018 7:47pm

My own opinion on this sh** is that the "protesters" had trespassed on a private property and should have been taken out very quickly.
The Guards had there faces covered..So what? Many have had there faces put up on social media and have been named for just doing their job. If this happened in France, Russia or the USA them protesters would have been water cannoned and sprayed..Its about time we put away with the political correctness and properly control law and order. If the guards were not there, the evictors would have been attacked and then the talk would be "well where were the Gardai"..So for all of you with the Garda bashing attitude....Grow up and if you really care about these social issues then why not donate a sum every week to the charity...

end of the road · 13-09-2018 7:58pm

opfleet wrote: »

My own opinion on this sh** is that the "protesters" had trespassed on a private property and should have been taken out very quickly.
The Guards had there faces covered..So what? Many have had there faces put up on social media and have been named for just doing their job. If this happened in France, Russia or the USA them protesters would have been water cannoned and sprayed..Its about time we put away with the political correctness and properly control law and order. If the guards were not there, the evictors would have been attacked and then the talk would be "well where were the Gardai"..So for all of you with the Garda bashing attitude....Grow up and if you really care about these social issues then why not donate a sum every week to the charity...

political correctness, controling law and order and protecting identity isn't relevant to this. the balaclavas the gardai had covering their faces at this operation are required to be worn in conjunction with a helmet, and such equipment is worn where there is an actual risk of harm. it is not worn to protect identity, otherwise it would be worn all the time. if there was an actual risk of harm then helmets would have been worn along with the balaclava.
so, not grow up at all, as there is nothing to grow up to or fore in relation to this. the criticisms of the gardai are legitimate, and by the looks of it the garda commissioner seems to agree. as for the evictors being attacked, there is nothing to say that would have happened.

opfleet · 13-09-2018 8:01pm

end of the road wrote: »

as for the evictors being attacked, there is nothing to say that would have happened.

If you really believe that the situation was not going to escalate then you are not very street wise...Gardai were certainly required and given that some of the protesters were injured by the use of force...With all the cameras I would assume that they used force as a last option.

end of the road · 13-09-2018 8:04pm

opfleet wrote: »

If you really believe that the situation was not going to escalate then you are not very street wise...Gardai were certainly required and given that some of the protesters were injured by the use of force...With all the cameras I would assume that they used force as a last option.

garda always attend evictions. that has always been the case.

ohnonotgmail · 13-09-2018 8:25pm

end of the road wrote: »

garda always attend evictions. that has always been the case.

the public order unit always attend evictions?

end of the road · 13-09-2018 8:46pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the public order unit always attend evictions?

i don't know about the public order unit but as far as i understand it is procedure for gardai to be at an eviction in some form.

Potential-Monke · 13-09-2018 9:09pm

end of the road, yes, Gardaí always attend, but it's usually 2/3 members. When I was a Garda, I've attended a few, and 99.9% of the time they go off without incident, thus the requirement for 2/3. If i'm not mistaken, the same was sent to this place, but it was deemed more were required, and then the Public Order Unit attended. Obviously they were needed, because all I'm reading about is how the heavy handed Gardaí working for the evictors were there.

Let me tell you, if I was still a member, I would also cover my face. I was at the water protests, the 'peaceful' ones. There is nothing peaceful about them. Peaceful is not people roaring abuse in your face and expecting you to just take it. Peaceful is not resisting. Peaceful allows work and duties to be carried out without interruption. The water protests were far from peaceful, which is why someone was always arrested. The Gardaí do have better things to be doing, but because the public cannot be trusted to do an actual peaceful protest, they have to attend to prevent other people from being assaulted while simply doing their job. Also, if i'm not mistaken, they were still wearing their shoulder numbers, so there is enough identity if required.

And they are covering their faces now because, as opfleet stated above, the Gardaí who were sent to the Water Protests were having their names and personal addresses and details plastered all over Facebook and other social media because some crusty got offended that they weren't allowed to do what they wanted. Personal lives of those Gardaí were affected and they were just doing as directed. I personally know of 3 who had to get a transfer and move their lives away because of these 'peaceful' protestors. And none of the 3 did anything wrong, but someone decided to make them scapegoats for the lies that they were sprouting.

These protestors got a Court Order to leave and they didn't. Of course they were going to be removed forcefully. Why wouldn't they? If it was your house, would you be ok if the Gardaí said 'Ah, they're not cooperating, so we'll just leave them there'. No, of course you wouldn't. I couldn't care about the reason they were there, it was an illegal protest that involved trespassing. The fact it had to go to a court order to remove them is an indication of how soft this country has become. They should have been removed by force the night they went in.

I will never work as a Garda again, and if anyone asks me, I put them off the idea of it. The public are against the Gardaí regardless of how that Garda performs. I never arrested or summonsed/ticketed anyone for something they didn't deserve. I had enough to do as it was without adding on unnecessary work. I actively worked towards promoting a positive image, one that showed that we were human too, and approachable. I posed for photos, helped people, gave people chances. But I was still lumped in with the bad apples, and there were only a few of them, you get them in every job, AGS is not immune from this. No matter what I did, it didn't matter. Just because I was wearing the uniform, I was automatically tagged as corrupt, physically violent (i'm not, i'm only 5'6" and average, if not overweight at the time), scumbag.

No one except serving and ex-members know what it's like on that side of the fence. Not even family members of Gardaí know. They've been told, but they didn't experience it. It's a horrible experience. Lots of the members there possibly felt the same about the homeless issue, but their job was there to protect the peace, which was being broken by protestors thinking they are staging a peaceful protest, when in fact all they were doing is breaking the law. Their hearts might be in the right place, their actions are completely wrong.

So it's easy for anyone to sit back and judge actions made in a split second, or in a short amount of time. But no-one can know what it's like unless you've lived it.

end of the road · 13-09-2018 10:20pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

end of the road, yes, Gardaí always attend, but it's usually 2/3 members. When I was a Garda, I've attended a few, and 99.9% of the time they go off without incident, thus the requirement for 2/3. If i'm not mistaken, the same was sent to this place, but it was deemed more were required, and then the Public Order Unit attended. Obviously they were needed, because all I'm reading about is how the heavy handed Gardaí working for the evictors were there.

Let me tell you, if I was still a member, I would also cover my face. I was at the water protests, the 'peaceful' ones. There is nothing peaceful about them. Peaceful is not people roaring abuse in your face and expecting you to just take it. Peaceful is not resisting. Peaceful allows work and duties to be carried out without interruption. The water protests were far from peaceful, which is why someone was always arrested. The Gardaí do have better things to be doing, but because the public cannot be trusted to do an actual peaceful protest, they have to attend to prevent other people from being assaulted while simply doing their job. Also, if i'm not mistaken, they were still wearing their shoulder numbers, so there is enough identity if required.

And they are covering their faces now because, as opfleet stated above, the Gardaí who were sent to the Water Protests were having their names and personal addresses and details plastered all over Facebook and other social media because some crusty got offended that they weren't allowed to do what they wanted. Personal lives of those Gardaí were affected and they were just doing as directed. I personally know of 3 who had to get a transfer and move their lives away because of these 'peaceful' protestors. And none of the 3 did anything wrong, but someone decided to make them scapegoats for the lies that they were sprouting.

These protestors got a Court Order to leave and they didn't. Of course they were going to be removed forcefully. Why wouldn't they? If it was your house, would you be ok if the Gardaí said 'Ah, they're not cooperating, so we'll just leave them there'. No, of course you wouldn't. I couldn't care about the reason they were there, it was an illegal protest that involved trespassing. The fact it had to go to a court order to remove them is an indication of how soft this country has become. They should have been removed by force the night they went in.

I will never work as a Garda again, and if anyone asks me, I put them off the idea of it. The public are against the Gardaí regardless of how that Garda performs. I never arrested or summonsed/ticketed anyone for something they didn't deserve. I had enough to do as it was without adding on unnecessary work. I actively worked towards promoting a positive image, one that showed that we were human too, and approachable. I posed for photos, helped people, gave people chances. But I was still lumped in with the bad apples, and there were only a few of them, you get them in every job, AGS is not immune from this. No matter what I did, it didn't matter. Just because I was wearing the uniform, I was automatically tagged as corrupt, physically violent (i'm not, i'm only 5'6" and average, if not overweight at the time), scumbag.

No one except serving and ex-members know what it's like on that side of the fence. Not even family members of Gardaí know. They've been told, but they didn't experience it. It's a horrible experience. Lots of the members there possibly felt the same about the homeless issue, but their job was there to protect the peace, which was being broken by protestors thinking they are staging a peaceful protest, when in fact all they were doing is breaking the law. Their hearts might be in the right place, their actions are completely wrong.

So it's easy for anyone to sit back and judge actions made in a split second, or in a short amount of time. But no-one can know what it's like unless you've lived it.

the gardai's identity isn't the issue, i have already said they were identifiable. it's the shadowy masked men which is the focus of my concern. also, given the gardai weren't wearing their helmets as required as part of their balaclava, then it obviously wasn't necessary, otherwise they would have worn the helmet as required. the comments from the garda commissioner today seem to suggest the same thing. having it go to a court order is nothing to do with being soft, it's just the way it's done and i'd suggest it's a good thing.

Wheeliebin30 · 13-09-2018 10:22pm

end of the road wrote: »

the gardai's identity isn't the issue, i have already said they were identifiable. it's the shadowy masked men which is the focus of my concern. also, given the gardai weren't wearing their helmets as required as part of their balaclava, then it obviously wasn't necessary, otherwise they would have worn the helmet as required. the comments from the garda commissioner today seem to suggest the same thing. having it go to a court order is nothing to do with being soft, it's just the way it's done and i'd suggest it's a good thing.

Seriously you support ira/Sinn Féin and you condemn this!!!!!!!!!!

mynamejeff · 13-09-2018 10:29pm

opfleet wrote: »

If you really believe that the situation was not going to escalate then you are not very street wise...Gardai were certainly required and given that some of the protesters were injured by the use of force...With all the cameras I would assume that they used force as a last option.

dont feed it for gods sake

baldshin · 13-09-2018 10:30pm

end of the road wrote: »

having it go to a court order is nothing to do with being soft, it's just the way it's done and i'd suggest it's a good thing.

How is it a good thing?? If someone broke in to your house, and decided to live and sleep in your spare room, would you expect to go get a court order to remove them, or would you expect the Gardaí to come forcibly remove them?

Potential-Monke · 14-09-2018 1:43pm

end of the road wrote: »

the gardai's identity isn't the issue, i have already said they were identifiable. it's the shadowy masked men which is the focus of my concern. also, given the gardai weren't wearing their helmets as required as part of their balaclava, then it obviously wasn't necessary, otherwise they would have worn the helmet as required. the comments from the garda commissioner today seem to suggest the same thing. having it go to a court order is nothing to do with being soft, it's just the way it's done and i'd suggest it's a good thing.

You missed my point. Their faces were covered not because they were worried that someone might throw fire at them, they just don't want their faces plastered all over social media with unsubstantiated accusations, ones which affect their personal lives simply for being sent to prevent a breach of the peace. Yes, Harris said blah blah blah, but he wasn't around for the water protests, so he didn't see what happened because of that.

Again, the Gardaí were wearing their shoulder numbers, so I see no harm with them wanting to hide their faces from an angry mob who like to dish out social justice, whether it be right or wrong.

As for the heavies, we don't know who they were, so there's no point speculating on them. Most likely private security hired by the landlord to carry out duties assigned by the landlord. I don't know all the details, so were they involved in the removal of the person therein? Or just there? Anyway, until we know who they were, there's nothing to speculate about.

And it should never have gone to a court order. That's the last line, they were trespassing and having to get a court order was pandering to the masses, making it out to be something more than it is. They should have been removed, by force if necessary and in accordance with the law. It's the same with travellers parking up on public roads or private property. We pander to them by requiring a court order to remove them, when there is already law there to move them.

end of the road · 14-09-2018 4:26pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You missed my point. Their faces were covered not because they were worried that someone might throw fire at them, they just don't want their faces plastered all over social media with unsubstantiated accusations, ones which affect their personal lives simply for being sent to prevent a breach of the peace. Yes, Harris said blah blah blah, but he wasn't around for the water protests, so he didn't see what happened because of that.

Again, the Gardaí were wearing their shoulder numbers, so I see no harm with them wanting to hide their faces from an angry mob who like to dish out social justice, whether it be right or wrong.

As for the heavies, we don't know who they were, so there's no point speculating on them. Most likely private security hired by the landlord to carry out duties assigned by the landlord. I don't know all the details, so were they involved in the removal of the person therein? Or just there? Anyway, until we know who they were, there's nothing to speculate about.

And it should never have gone to a court order. That's the last line, they were trespassing and having to get a court order was pandering to the masses, making it out to be something more than it is. They should have been removed, by force if necessary and in accordance with the law. It's the same with travellers parking up on public roads or private property. We pander to them by requiring a court order to remove them, when there is already law there to move them.

the equipment is for protection from people throwing dangerous things at their faces. it's not to protect their identity. if the commissioner says they weren't supposed to wear the equipment in that situation, or if they needed to wear it, wear the full equipment, then that is the rule and it is non-negotiable. they weren't wearing the helmet as required, therefore clearly there was no danger from people throwing potentially firey things at their faces, therefore they should not have been covering their faces.
the water protests are irrelevant, whether the commissioner was around or not for those protests is irrelevant. he is the boss.

suicide_circus · 14-09-2018 4:51pm

is this harris throwing the lads under the bus at the first sight of trouble?

Fann Linn · 14-09-2018 4:55pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

is this harris throwing the lads under the bus at the first sight of trouble?

Not before time a large % weren't fcuked under a bus.

AlekSmart · 14-09-2018 5:12pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

end of the road, yes, Gardaí always attend, but it's usually 2/3 members. When I was a Garda, I've attended a few, and 99.9% of the time they go off without incident, thus the requirement for 2/3. If i'm not mistaken, the same was sent to this place, but it was deemed more were required, and then the Public Order Unit attended. Obviously they were needed, because all I'm reading about is how the heavy handed Gardaí working for the evictors were there.

Let me tell you, if I was still a member, I would also cover my face. I was at the water protests, the 'peaceful' ones. There is nothing peaceful about them. Peaceful is not people roaring abuse in your face and expecting you to just take it. Peaceful is not resisting. Peaceful allows work and duties to be carried out without interruption. The water protests were far from peaceful, which is why someone was always arrested. The Gardaí do have better things to be doing, but because the public cannot be trusted to do an actual peaceful protest, they have to attend to prevent other people from being assaulted while simply doing their job. Also, if i'm not mistaken, they were still wearing their shoulder numbers, so there is enough identity if required.

And they are covering their faces now because, as opfleet stated above, the Gardaí who were sent to the Water Protests were having their names and personal addresses and details plastered all over Facebook and other social media because some crusty got offended that they weren't allowed to do what they wanted. Personal lives of those Gardaí were affected and they were just doing as directed. I personally know of 3 who had to get a transfer and move their lives away because of these 'peaceful' protestors. And none of the 3 did anything wrong, but someone decided to make them scapegoats for the lies that they were sprouting.

These protestors got a Court Order to leave and they didn't. Of course they were going to be removed forcefully. Why wouldn't they? If it was your house, would you be ok if the Gardaí said 'Ah, they're not cooperating, so we'll just leave them there'. No, of course you wouldn't. I couldn't care about the reason they were there, it was an illegal protest that involved trespassing. The fact it had to go to a court order to remove them is an indication of how soft this country has become. They should have been removed by force the night they went in.

I will never work as a Garda again, and if anyone asks me, I put them off the idea of it. The public are against the Gardaí regardless of how that Garda performs. I never arrested or summonsed/ticketed anyone for something they didn't deserve. I had enough to do as it was without adding on unnecessary work. I actively worked towards promoting a positive image, one that showed that we were human too, and approachable. I posed for photos, helped people, gave people chances. But I was still lumped in with the bad apples, and there were only a few of them, you get them in every job, AGS is not immune from this. No matter what I did, it didn't matter. Just because I was wearing the uniform, I was automatically tagged as corrupt, physically violent (i'm not, i'm only 5'6" and average, if not overweight at the time), scumbag.

No one except serving and ex-members know what it's like on that side of the fence. Not even family members of Gardaí know. They've been told, but they didn't experience it. It's a horrible experience. Lots of the members there possibly felt the same about the homeless issue, but their job was there to protect the peace, which was being broken by protestors thinking they are staging a peaceful protest, when in fact all they were doing is breaking the law. Their hearts might be in the right place, their actions are completely wrong.

So it's easy for anyone to sit back and judge actions made in a split second, or in a short amount of time. But no-one can know what it's like unless you've lived it.

It's hard to believe it's four years ago now,but I hope this particular Sergeant has been promoted or recognised in some way for maintaining his composure and professionalism in the face of ignorance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSn-9zzMxIU

scanner · 14-09-2018 5:48pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's hard to believe it's four years ago now,but I hope this particular Sergeant has been promoted or recognised in some way for maintaining his composure and professionalism in the face of ignorance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSn-9zzMxIU

Here here, so many little angels thinking they can have an a la carte version of the law
Seen similar images to these myself , as soon as camera turned off , the real abuse and intimidation of guards starts.

I fully agree with everyone having the right to "peaceful" protest and to vote for whatever party they want from "looney we want everything for free left" to "far right give them nothing" . I mightn't agree with either sides position but hey that's democracy at work.

The law is there to prevent anarchy simple as that, the problem is that everybody now through social media takes offence to everything and make rash populist reactions without full possession of the facts.

By God ( hope I didn't offend anyone using the "G" word) life was so much simpler just a few years back that seems like a lifetime ago

end of the road · 14-09-2018 6:02pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

is this harris throwing the lads under the bus at the first sight of trouble?

no . far from it.

Potential-Monke · 14-09-2018 8:16pm

end of the road wrote: »

the equipment is for protection from people throwing dangerous things at their faces. it's not to protect their identity. if the commissioner says they weren't supposed to wear the equipment in that situation, or if they needed to wear it, wear the full equipment, then that is the rule and it is non-negotiable. they weren't wearing the helmet as required, therefore clearly there was no danger from people throwing potentially firey things at their faces, therefore they should not have been covering their faces.
the water protests are irrelevant, whether the commissioner was around or not for those protests is irrelevant. he is the boss.

Again, you're missing my point. The protestors in the property were not the problem, the ones outside were. They covered their faces to prevent any attacks on them when off-duty, which has happened previously due to the water protests. No one wants that, they were still identifiable if required. The same faces show at these protests, and if there was no need for them, they would not have been there and the 3 Gardaí that went with the Sheriff would be the only ones needed, but that wasn't the case.

You obviously are not a Garda, so you've no idea what it's like on the other side. I fully support my ex-colleagues in covering their faces in these social media fueled protests. And Harris is throwing them under the bus. AGS has been waiting for a Commissioner to make the hard changes and go against the politicians, it's too early to state if he is the one, but off to a bad start imo. He should have been behind his colleagues and cite the examples as a reason why, instead he went by the only bit of information he has at the moment on the uniform.

If they did wear the helmets there'd be even more uproar. You can't win. You're going with the line that the code says uniform x, y and z, but you're ok with a court order being needed to remove trespassers, and trespassing is a crime in itself so it should never have gone this far. Experience and intelligence shows that there are people at all of these social protests who only go to give hassle or 'catch' the Gardaí doing something, but it's usually a clip of what is happening, rather than what led to it, what happened and the aftermath. They're dead right to cover their faces, and it should be made the norm in these social protests.

alaimacerc · 14-09-2018 9:20pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

AGS has been waiting for a Commissioner to make the hard changes and go against the politicians, it's too early to state if he is the one, but off to a bad start imo.

AGS seems to have had no shortage of commissioners willing to "go against the politicians" -- by changing absolutely nothing. Exactly what changes were you hoping he'd carry out, that aren't subject to -- indeed, seemingly are directly contrary to -- democratic accountability?

alaimacerc · 14-09-2018 9:23pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

an angry mob who like to dish out social justice

Thing you might be crossing the beams on those axes you're grinding there.

Potential-Monke · 14-09-2018 9:33pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

AGS seems to have had no shortage of commissioners willing to "go against the politicians" -- by changing absolutely nothing. Exactly what changes were you hoping he'd carry out, that aren't subject to -- indeed, seemingly are directly contrary to -- democratic accountability?

Every commissioner since 2007 (when I joined, so can't talk about the ones before then) has been a political puppet, pandering to what the politicians wants rather than what the force needs. What would I like to see? A commissioner who tells the truth, who gives the public a proper insight into the issues AGS face. That last one, Noirin, said there was no issue with a lack of Gardai, when it's plainly obvious there was. Granted, anytime a big wig came to visit our station, every office Garda and even the sub-district members were brought in to show numbers. But that's still a management decision from the Chief.

I want a commissioner who will properly equip the Gardai. Bodycams are a necessity now, as are tasers, but none of the commissioners ever tried to bring them in. The bodycams will be of public benefit, as everything will be recorded. The tasers are less lethal than the ASPs, but they won't bring them in, most likely due to cost.

I want a commissioner that gives properly equipped purpose built patrol cars, not Hyundai i30's with the radio removed and some stickers and radio put in. I want a commissioner that will protect it's force, rather than the coffers. It's not much to ask, but every commissioner for as long as I was a Garda was useless. I thought someone from the outside might be different, but it's too early to make that call just yet.

alaimacerc wrote: »

Thing you might be crossing the beams on those axes you're grinding there.

I don't follow. Are you saying there are no people attending these protests with the only intention of causing trouble? Because if you are, you're naive. But that's ok, you wouldn't know that if you were never a Garda. But I guarantee you 100% that there is at least 1 or 2 at every protest who have the only agenda of causing trouble, or 'catching out' the Gardai there. Thing is, they're well known. I could give you the names of them from the area I worked, but the Official Secrets Act and Garda Code prevent me from doing so (and that little law, what was it... Data protection, that's it).

Like every Garda bashing thread, this is only going to end up in circles. I've said my bit, I'm not repeating it. People have agendas, people have opinions and they won't charge, regardless, so no point in trying too hard.

Potential-Monke · 18-09-2018 6:26pm

And this is why they were covering their faces. And why I fully support them covering their faces at any of these social protests. Simply doing his job (regardless of circumstances, he was directed to the protest to prevent a breach of the peace, not by the occupiers, but by a crowd that gathered afterwards) and now has death threats (bullet to the head, tie wrap around his neck), daily movements given on social media, where he eats, what station he's in, etc.

Regardless of your stance on the protest or how it was handled, this is why their faces were covered. The same happened with the water protests, innocent Gardaí having their pictures and private information plastered all over social media by someone with no actual interest in the reason for the protest, but only there to add to the hate campaign against the Gardaí. I hope all threats are fully investigated and those involved are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, even if they are only keyboard warriors.

blanch152 · 18-09-2018 6:44pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Every commissioner since 2007 (when I joined, so can't talk about the ones before then) has been a political puppet, pandering to what the politicians wants rather than what the force needs. What would I like to see? A commissioner who tells the truth, who gives the public a proper insight into the issues AGS face. That last one, Noirin, said there was no issue with a lack of Gardai, when it's plainly obvious there was. Granted, anytime a big wig came to visit our station, every office Garda and even the sub-district members were brought in to show numbers. But that's still a management decision from the Chief.

I want a commissioner who will properly equip the Gardai. Bodycams are a necessity now, as are tasers, but none of the commissioners ever tried to bring them in. The bodycams will be of public benefit, as everything will be recorded. The tasers are less lethal than the ASPs, but they won't bring them in, most likely due to cost.

I want a commissioner that gives properly equipped purpose built patrol cars, not Hyundai i30's with the radio removed and some stickers and radio put in. I want a commissioner that will protect it's force, rather than the coffers. It's not much to ask, but every commissioner for as long as I was a Garda was useless. I thought someone from the outside might be different, but it's too early to make that call just yet.

I don't follow. Are you saying there are no people attending these protests with the only intention of causing trouble? Because if you are, you're naive. But that's ok, you wouldn't know that if you were never a Garda. But I guarantee you 100% that there is at least 1 or 2 at every protest who have the only agenda of causing trouble, or 'catching out' the Gardai there. Thing is, they're well known. I could give you the names of them from the area I worked, but the Official Secrets Act and Garda Code prevent me from doing so (and that little law, what was it... Data protection, that's it).

Like every Garda bashing thread, this is only going to end up in circles. I've said my bit, I'm not repeating it. People have agendas, people have opinions and they won't charge, regardless, so no point in trying too hard.

The reason there isn't enough money for the Gardai is because of the huge investment in social welfare by the Government. Ireland is among the highest levels of direct transfers in welfare payments in the world.

Fann Linn · 18-09-2018 6:47pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The reason there isn't enough money for the Gardai is because of the huge investment in social welfare by the Government. Ireland is among the highest levels of direct transfers in welfare payments in the world.

Plus one of the highest paid Police forces. Not so long ago they got an €87,000,000 payrise.

HeidiHeidi · 18-09-2018 6:51pm

end of the road wrote: »

the gardai's identity isn't the issue, i have already said they were identifiable. it's the shadowy masked men which is the focus of my concern. also, given the gardai weren't wearing their helmets as required as part of their balaclava, then it obviously wasn't necessary, otherwise they would have worn the helmet as required. the comments from the garda commissioner today seem to suggest the same thing. having it go to a court order is nothing to do with being soft, it's just the way it's done and i'd suggest it's a good thing.

end of the road wrote: »

the equipment is for protection from people throwing dangerous things at their faces. it's not to protect their identity. if the commissioner says they weren't supposed to wear the equipment in that situation, or if they needed to wear it, wear the full equipment, then that is the rule and it is non-negotiable. they weren't wearing the helmet as required, therefore clearly there was no danger from people throwing potentially firey things at their faces, therefore they should not have been covering their faces.
the water protests are irrelevant, whether the commissioner was around or not for those protests is irrelevant. he is the boss.

Are you even reading the posts you're replying to?

Drew Harris appointed Garda commissioner.

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