Terminator: Dark Fate Spoilers from post 983

Tony EH · 22-03-2019 1:28pm

Circuital wrote: »

Just no.

It's done everything a sequel should - developed the story, the universe, the characters, introduced new ones central to the story, drawn a conclusion (to a point). But it's an action sci-fi movie so it conveys and builds all this around brilliant action scenes and cutting edge effects for its time.

Just because it's "biggerer", it doesn't make it a good sequel.

It's just a tiresome action flick, whereas 'The Terminator' was more a horror movie, with some sci-fi elements, that had a better tone.

T2's liquid robot is incredibly dumb and Arnie wanting to be the hero instead of the villain was sickly saccharine. That thumbs up ending makes me puke.

It's the younger, louder, brother of a smarter guy. Ok to be around for a little bit, but you eventually want to tell him to feck off.

seamus · 22-03-2019 1:31pm

I liked the new films. No, they were nothing on T2. A little shaky around the edges, a little too predictable and clichéd, huge chunks of canon ignored. But not bad enough to make you walk out of a cinema. If I was flicking at night and any of the later sequels were on, I'd watch it.

The way people attack the sequels you'd swear they were like Police Academy 4 or Robocop 3.

On their own, they're pretty solid movies. A good 6.5/10. T3 is probably the weakest of the lot IMHO.

TerrorFirmer · 22-03-2019 2:06pm

I would agree with the above, to be honest. T1 is the best in my opinion too, but T2 is about as perfect a sequel as one can ever reasonably be expected to be. T3 is.... fine, it's a major drop in quality from its predecessor but still perfectly watchable, and I would say the same of Genisys and Salvation - the latter two are even more flawed, but they're still far from horrible. T3's ending is really good though and surprisingly dark, almost a hark back to the original.

Some of the later Resident Evil movies are a better example of sequels becoming so intolerably bad they're almost unwatchable, which being realistic is rare to say of most franchises, despite inevitable dips in quality. It's not an easy thing to make an unwatchable movie devoid of redeeming qualities, and none of the Terminator films really belong anywhere near that category.

At worst, they're entirely unremarkable entertainment, at best, somewhat decent action films. I'd still be immensely looking forward to T6, and not necessarily being I've my fingers crossed for a return to the glory days either, just because I love the concept of the franchise and at the very least I'm guaranteed a good dumb time.....but naturally it'd be nice to get an objectively good Terminator movie again.

One concept which they had just started to explore in the TV show when it got cancelled was the idea of humans becoming emotionally and sexually entangled with Terminators, and there was an ambiguituy there as to whether John was being blatantly manipulated, or Summer Glau was 'evolving' and learning as it's programming intended it to. This is also suggested/portrayed in other films but on a much less complex level then the direction the show was heading. Such a shame it got cancelled, despite being low budget it had some really solid ideas.

Lorelli! · 22-03-2019 2:14pm

Terminator 1 is not an action movie. It's a love story with action (no pun intended

)! It is more unique from a lot of other action films because the character relationships were so authentic.

It's about the strange dynamics of a family (Sarah, Reece, John) lost in time to protect each other and obviously to protect the human race. John Connor is a symbol of the human race.

In T1 Reece had to save Sarah at any cost but John also sent Reece specifically to ensure that he was born. In T2, Sarah is continuing his mission, hardened after losing the Father of her son and trying to live up to the woman that Reece knew she was and was expecting in the future. It's also a paradox movie because if they destroy skynet then technically Reece would never have been sent back and John wouldn't exist. Think Back to the Future

They're both great movies and imo nothing that followed onwards was able to achieve the same standard. The new one probably won't be any good but I'm still looking forward to it especially since they are not including all the other crap sequels. I can't even remember half of them because there was nothing special about them whatsoever.

Circuital · 22-03-2019 2:46pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Just because it's "biggerer", it doesn't make it a good sequel..

If you believe I just said it's 'biggerer' then you didn't read my post.

Anyway, we obviously differ on it so let's leave it there.

Dades · 22-03-2019 3:00pm

Circuital wrote: »

One very good film followed by one of the best sequels of all time 28 years ago.

And Cameron has previous with this - Aliens.

Though I suspect Tony EH isn't a fan of that, either. :P

RayCun · 22-03-2019 3:20pm

Hmm, does Aliens have one of the aliens change sides and rescue Newt?

Does a xenomorph sacrifice itself to save Next, but manage to croak out "I ... wuv...you" before it dies?

No?

Not terrible then.

Tony EH · 22-03-2019 3:44pm

Dades wrote: »

And Cameron has previous with this - Aliens.

Though I suspect Tony EH isn't a fan of that, either. :P

No, 'Aliens' is a great film. But, I prefer 'Alien'. Sure, I even like 'Alien 3'.

But like the Terminator series, the plug should have been pulled on that a long time ago too.

They keep trying to revive it, and it slips into a worse coma each time.

Tony EH · 22-03-2019 3:48pm

Circuital wrote: »

If you believe I just said it's 'biggerer' then you didn't read my post.

Anyway, we obviously differ on it so let's leave it there.

No, we're not going to agree. I didn't really like it in 1991 when I saw it in the cinema, so I'm certainly not going to change my mind about it now.

In saying that, I don't actually hate the film. In fact, I probably seen it about 5 times or something.

I just think it's stupid and has the unfortunate tendency of overshadowing its superior predecessor.

o1s1n · 22-03-2019 3:52pm

RayCun wrote: »

Hmm, does Aliens have one of the aliens change sides and rescue Newt?

Does a xenomorph sacrifice itself to save Next, but manage to croak out "I ... wuv...you" before it dies?

No?

Not terrible then.

The t-800 in Terminator 2 was captured by rebels and reprogrammed, it didn't just wake up one day and decide to change sizes.

RayCun · 22-03-2019 4:06pm

o1s1n wrote: »

The t-800 in Terminator 2 was captured by rebels and reprogrammed, it didn't just wake up one day and decide to change sizes.

yeah, reprogrammed and given a heart, so sweet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAHTsoYfskw

seamus · 22-03-2019 4:44pm

^^ To be fair, this is probably one of the things which annoys me about the original cut of T2.

The director's cut contains a scene which is arguably pivotal to the second half of the movie. When they're in the motel, Sarah gets into a conversation with the Terminator about the chip at Cyberdyne.
The Terminator reveals that the chip inside his head is exactly the same type of tech that Skynet works off, but he is incapable of exceeding his programming because of an artificial limiter that Skynet has placed on it. "To prevent you from learning too much", remarks Sarah.

They then go through a whole scene where they deactivate the Terminator to try and disable the learning block, and John and Sarah argue about whether they should leave him deactivated and destroy his chip.

After that, the entire sequence includes snippets of John teaching the Terminator "normal" behaviour, saying "Hasta la Vista", doing high-fives, smiling (another cut scene), etc.

These scenes work if you never know that the Terminator can't learn, but they do come off a little cheesy - the love of an innocent child taught a robot how to care.
But with the backstory, they serve as real character development. You can see the Terminator learning and understand why it's happening now, and not before. And thus the "I know now why you cry" isn't some saccharin nonsense.

RayCun · 22-03-2019 4:49pm

seamus wrote: »

And thus the "I know now why you cry" isn't some saccharin nonsense.

Oh, so it's the love of an innocent child and they inverted the shield polarity.

That's so much better.

Dades · 22-03-2019 4:49pm

Tony EH wrote: »

But like the Terminator series, the plug should have been pulled on that a long time ago too.

They keep trying to revive it, and it slips into a worse coma each time.

There's not too many arguments that the Terminator movies have gotten progressively worse.
The only difference of opinion here is at what point did the decline start.

You think things went downhill after Terminator, whereas most people think T2 was equal, if not the high point (and raised the bar for every action blockbuster to follow).

SoundsRight · 22-03-2019 7:56pm

T1 had the dynamic of man vs. machine. The tech-noir theme was cool. Throw in Michael Biehn and Lance Henrikson, it's faultless.

Fourier · 22-03-2019 8:02pm

RayCun wrote: »

Oh, so it's the love of an innocent child and they inverted the shield polarity.

That's so much better.

Well it's not technobabble like shield polarity, it's simply that his capacity to grow mentally has been turned off.

I agree with seamus that it's a good addition, it shows you how paranoid Skynet is as it is afraid of other AI developing and ultimately other machines are really only "bad" because they are enslaved.

Skynet's paranoia is implied throughout T1 and T2 where you really get the impression of a super-intelligent child that just "woke up" to find everybody wanting to kill it.

Frank Bullitt · 04-04-2019 4:26pm

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1113823974251737090

04-04-2019 4:43pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I would agree with the above, to be honest. T1 is the best in my opinion too, but T2 is about as perfect a sequel as one can ever reasonably be expected to be. T3 is.... fine, it's a major drop in quality from its predecessor but still perfectly watchable, and I would say the same of Genisys and Salvation - the latter two are even more flawed, but they're still far from horrible. T3's ending is really good though and surprisingly dark, almost a hark back to the original.

Some of the later Resident Evil movies are a better example of sequels becoming so intolerably bad they're almost unwatchable, which being realistic is rare to say of most franchises, despite inevitable dips in quality. It's not an easy thing to make an unwatchable movie devoid of redeeming qualities, and none of the Terminator films really belong anywhere near that category.

At worst, they're entirely unremarkable entertainment, at best, somewhat decent action films. I'd still be immensely looking forward to T6, and not necessarily being I've my fingers crossed for a return to the glory days either, just because I love the concept of the franchise and at the very least I'm guaranteed a good dumb time.....but naturally it'd be nice to get an objectively good Terminator movie again.

One concept which they had just started to explore in the TV show when it got cancelled was the idea of humans becoming emotionally and sexually entangled with Terminators, and there was an ambiguituy there as to whether John was being blatantly manipulated, or Summer Glau was 'evolving' and learning as it's programming intended it to. This is also suggested/portrayed in other films but on a much less complex level then the direction the show was heading. Such a shame it got cancelled, despite being low budget it had some really solid ideas.

The last few episodes of TSCC are amazing and set it up so well for the 3rd season.
Gutted it was cancelled.

rockatansky · 04-04-2019 8:48pm

Lorelli! wrote: »

Terminator 1 is not an action movie. It's a love story with action (no pun intended )

Both T1 and T2 ultimately are love stories, just like most of Camerons over films (The Abyss, Avatar, True Lies, Titanic) with Aliens probably the exception.

For me the first 2 films are perfection. I've watched the rest but for me they barely register on the radar.

Inevitably we're going to keep getting substandard sequels until the day that Cameron gets back into the Directors chair. Even then it takes him about 10 years to make a film in his vision!

rockatansky · 04-04-2019 8:57pm

Tony EH wrote: »

No, 'Aliens' is a great film. But, I prefer 'Alien'. Sure, I even like 'Alien 3'.

But like the Terminator series, the plug should have been pulled on that a long time ago too.

They keep trying to revive it, and it slips into a worse coma each time.

Aliens is the only movie of the Franchise I watch repeatedly. Although that probably to do with the fact that you can really see the similarities between it and Terminator, Troop Transporter/HKs, use of large screen projectors, Biehn/Paxton/Henriksen, Phased Plasma Rifles, Nukes, I could go on and on!

Marcus Rashford · 04-04-2019 9:04pm

That Sarah Connor Chronicles show was shaping up really nicely...the reveal with that Scottish singer (Garbage) was very interesting.

Terminator 2 is the best in my view, up there with the best action movies of all time.

Possibly the inflection point for special effects too. That movie is 28 YEARS OLD...unbelievable. It still looks amazing.

SirLemonhead · 04-04-2019 10:07pm

Marcus Rashford wrote: »

That Sarah Connor Chronicles show was shaping up really nicely...the reveal with that Scottish singer (Garbage) was very interesting.

When she hid as a urinal for god knows how long, allowing god knows how many people to piss on her before she killed her intended target?

The show was terrible. Summer Glau's character doing a perfect impression of a high school teenager at the start, until the reveal she's a machine, then is completely incapable of acting remotely like a human being.

The awful "arty-****" scene of a ton of swat team members being thrown into a swimming pool in slow motion "throw me now bro! it's my turn" - could imagine them all lining up for their go.

And the Jesus scene in the church. The woman who had her husband replaced by a terminator months previously but thought "something is a little off here.."

Shirley Manson's incredibly stupid hiding spot to kill 1 person.

The whole "lone man goes back to the 70s and somehow creates a portable time machine with 70s tech"

Didn't some non-flesh covered metal go through a time machine too? The hilarious tediousness of the robot having to reassemble itself and kidnap TOP TECHNICIAN man to regrow his skin in a bathtub.

The sillyness of special magical terminator killing bullets, and summer glau popping open terminator head cavities left right and centre.

Something hilarious about a Terminator submarine captain from Australia. He was probably called 'Skippy' or something terrible endearing. I forget...

So glad that was cancelled. And some people have the nerve to insist the movies after the second one are terrible...

CatFromHue · 04-04-2019 10:38pm

rockatansky wrote: »

Both T1 and T2 ultimately are love stories, just like most of Camerons over films (The Abyss, Avatar, True Lies, Titanic) with Aliens probably the exception.

Ripley and Newt and Ripley and Hicks are the love, different types of love, stories in Aliens.

The film has a happy ending with the Mam (Ripley), Daughter (Newt), Dad (Hicks), and Dog (Bishop) all surviving.

rockatansky · 05-04-2019 5:56am

CatFromHue wrote: »

Ripley and Newt and Ripley and Hicks are the love, different types of love, stories in Aliens.

The film has a happy ending with the Mam (Ripley), Daughter (Newt), Dad (Hicks), and Dog (Bishop) all surviving.

So it is!

Am i right in saying Newt and Hicks are dead in Aliens 3 with only Ripley alive?

Tazzimus · 05-04-2019 8:34am

Think one of the 27 available versions mentioned they died when they crash landed on the planet.

T1 is a kind of thriller
T2 is all action
Similar to how Alien is thriller/horror and Aliens is all action and 'Murica

Dades · 05-04-2019 11:13am

rockatansky wrote: »

Both T1 and T2 ultimately are love stories, just like most of Camerons over films (The Abyss, Avatar, True Lies, Titanic) with Aliens probably the exception.

Ehhh, no!

Maybe, Titanic is a love story, the others are action movies that happen to have characters who either were, are, or about to fall in love. Sub plots at best to the threat of humans with nukes in every case!

Bacchus · 05-04-2019 3:36pm

rockatansky wrote: »

Both T1 and T2 ultimately are love stories,

He traveled through time to stop the Terminator but he couldn't terminate... his love.

Lorelli! · 05-04-2019 3:48pm

Bacchus wrote: »

He traveled through time to stop the Terminator but he couldn't terminate... his love.

:pac:

Everyone knows it's a chick flick for men but we just can't say that

Church on Tuesday · 05-04-2019 5:28pm

SirLemonhead wrote: »

When she hid as a urinal for god knows how long, allowing god knows how many people to piss on her before she killed her intended target?

The show was terrible. Summer Glau's character doing a perfect impression of a high school teenager at the start, until the reveal she's a machine, then is completely incapable of acting remotely like a human being.

The awful "arty-****" scene of a ton of swat team members being thrown into a swimming pool in slow motion "throw me now bro! it's my turn" - could imagine them all lining up for their go.

And the Jesus scene in the church. The woman who had her husband replaced by a terminator months previously but thought "something is a little off here.."

Shirley Manson's incredibly stupid hiding spot to kill 1 person.

The whole "lone man goes back to the 70s and somehow creates a portable time machine with 70s tech"

Didn't some non-flesh covered metal go through a time machine too? The hilarious tediousness of the robot having to reassemble itself and kidnap TOP TECHNICIAN man to regrow his skin in a bathtub.

The sillyness of special magical terminator killing bullets, and summer glau popping open terminator head cavities left right and centre.

Something hilarious about a Terminator submarine captain from Australia. He was probably called 'Skippy' or something terrible endearing. I forget...

So glad that was cancelled. And some people have the nerve to insist the movies after the second one are terrible...

I never got what all the fuss was about TBH

rockatansky · 05-04-2019 6:55pm

Dades wrote: »

Ehhh, no!

Maybe, Titanic is a love story, the others are action movies that happen to have characters who either were, are, or about to fall in love. Sub plots at best to the threat of humans with nukes in every case!

Think i remember either reading or seeing an interview Cameron where he says as much. He doesn't just do Action flicks.

nix · 05-04-2019 7:37pm

There shouldn't have been any other movies after part two tbh, Cameron in the chair or not, anything more has and will feel shoehorned.

TSCC Was entertaining, i actually enjoyed it a whole lot more than the modern movies, deeply flawed as it was, i just enjoyed the characters. Except Shirley Manson, she was terrible and can feck off

CatFromHue · 05-04-2019 9:58pm

I agree and that's why I have a soft spot for Salvation as it went away from the whole time travelling thing.

1, 2, 3, and 5 are pretty much the same story and you can only get away with that for so long, which is what 2 does.

Salvation at least tried something new.

corkie · 07-04-2019 10:55pm

[IMBd] Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

With Linda Hamilton back playing Sarah Conner?

I though that character was killed of (reported dead) in one of the films?

In Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, Sarah Connor has died from acute myeloid leukemia in 1997 after a three-year battle with the disease. She is mentioned by John (Nick Stahl) and the T-850 (Schwarzenegger).

TSCC aside?

AlmightyCushion · 07-04-2019 10:59pm

corkie wrote: »

[IMBd] Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

With Linda Hamilton back playing Sarah Conner?

I though that character was killed of (reported dead) in one of the films?

TSCC aside?

Cameron has said he's ignoring everything after terminator 2.

corkie · 07-04-2019 11:10pm

^^^ Just re-scanned some of the thread! Thanks.

Also John Connor absent or maybe making a brief appearance, looks like it is going PC and have more of a female cast?

nix · 07-04-2019 11:53pm

corkie wrote: »

looks like it is going PC and have more of a female cast?

Yup, and as history has shown, its a winning formula in hollywood.... wait :pac:

RayCun · 08-04-2019 8:46am

corkie wrote: »

it is going PC and have more of a female cast?

:rolleyes:

Dades · 08-04-2019 11:44am

Finally he's changed with the times and is giving us a strong female role in a Terminator movie. :pac:

WTF

pixelburp · 08-04-2019 11:54am

Wish we could get a trailer soon so we can talk about that; this endless pearl-clutching 'cos there's wimmin in a Terminator movie is getting tedious.

nix · 08-04-2019 1:15pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Wish we could get a trailer soon so we can talk about that; this endless pearl-clutching 'cos there's wimmin in a Terminator movie is getting tedious.

There's always been wimmin in Terminator, thats not the issue. But as you said, not much point going into it until more is revealed, but until then I'll remain sarcastically skeptical about what we HAVE seen.. :pac:

Kermit.de.frog · 30-04-2019 10:03pm

The central plotline is that the characters Grace and Sarah are helping Ramos escape from a new form of terminator that is both liquid and solid endoskeleton - one that can split in to two different machines of whole liquid and whole solid metal.

That seems like a very creative touch for the new machine and should hopefully help bring back the long lost horror elements of the franchise.

Also according to those who attended the sneak peek recently there will be a James Cameron depiction of the future war at some point in the movie which I guess is what fans really want.

Corvo · 01-05-2019 12:05pm

Sorry if I missed this mentioned already, but any rumour on age rating etc? If its going to be 12's and all comedy, they can shove it.

Kermit.de.frog · 01-05-2019 3:55pm

Corvo wrote: »

Sorry if I missed this mentioned already, but any rumour on age rating etc? If its going to be 12's and all comedy, they can shove it.

Going to be rated R apparently.

We were promised they were going back to basics with simple formula and good story and that was why Cameron was involved.

I was excited until yesterday when I saw that a scene was shown with two military transport planes colliding mid flight and the stalker terminator jumping from one to the other mid air.

*sigh*

I think we know where this is going with that. Major disappointment on the way in all likelihood.

They just can't tell a good story and leave the stupid OTT, CGI action sh!te out these days.

CinemaGuy45 · 01-05-2019 3:58pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Going to be rated R apparently.

What rubbish?;)

Kermit.de.frog · 01-05-2019 4:03pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

What rubbish?;)

Probably based on what's in the public domain so far.

The trailer will be telling.

CinemaGuy45 · 01-05-2019 4:14pm

Loved the first one but it was really low budget the second one was a little silly in places but lets be honest it was the best movie in the franchise.

3 was bad the fourth one was painfully bad and the last one was prove that is can always get worse.

This franchise has already had two movies on par with Jaws the Revenge and Superman iv the Quest for Peace.

Kermit.de.frog · 01-05-2019 4:17pm

I find it hard to believe that Cameron would put his name to a mix of all the tat from the previous 3 movies.

Would be really disappointing.

CinemaGuy45 · 01-05-2019 4:22pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that Cameron would put his name to a mix of all the tat from the previous 3 movies.

Would be really disappointing.

I think they are beating a dead horse at this point.

pixelburp · 01-05-2019 4:48pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that Cameron would put his name to a mix of all the tat from the previous 3 movies.

Would be really disappointing.

He put his name to Terminator: Genisys, and happily spoke praise in promo videos, I honestly find it hard to believe people hold his critical opinion in high regard these days

(Unless I'm misreading what you're saying)

Kermit.de.frog · 01-05-2019 4:50pm

pixelburp wrote: »

He put his name to Terminator: Genisys, and happily spoke praise in promo videos, I honestly find it hard to believe people hold his critical opinion in high regard these days

(Unless I'm misreading what you're saying)

He didn't actively work on that movie though.

He is the Producer here.

You would expect something better than the previous 3 surely.

Could still happen. Just one or two things suggest it could be going the wrong direction....yet again.

My view is if this turns out bad it's time to bury it.

Terminator: Dark Fate **Spoilers from post 983**

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Terminator: Dark Fate Spoilers from post 983