Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

EI321 · 21-02-2020 1:05am

Neilw wrote: »

I see the temporary perimeter fence around the runway and taxi way is being replaced with more secure fencing. They have also fitted solid blockers right at viewing height, no peering through the fence possible.
Also looks like they are building a high mound inside the perimeter fence.

Can't see there being many places for spotters to get a good view.

I think its to stop people parking on the grass verge, there should still be good views from the new spotting parking areas.

Kermit.de.frog · 21-02-2020 2:30pm

I take it this relates to the site at the eastern tip of the new runway?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dublin-airport-owner-daa-lands-high-court-date-on-traveller-family-v7vltq33m

Can't believe they are still there particularly with all the works going on around.

Eircom_Sucks · 21-02-2020 2:32pm

Neilw wrote: »

I see the temporary perimeter fence around the runway and taxi way is being replaced with more secure fencing. They have also fitted solid blockers right at viewing height, no peering through the fence possible.
Also looks like they are building a high mound inside the perimeter fence.

Can't see there being many places for spotters to get a good view.

Big fook off attinuation tank underground

sparrowcar · 21-02-2020 2:33pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I take it this relates to the site at the eastern tip of the new runway?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dublin-airport-owner-daa-lands-high-court-date-on-traveller-family-v7vltq33m

Can't believe they are still there particularly with all the works going on around.

Appears they stopped travelling....

sparrowcar · 21-02-2020 2:36pm

EI321 wrote: »

I think its to stop people parking on the grass verge, there should still be good views from the new spotting parking areas.

It's a dangerous enough road if people were to be distracted by planes. 2 separate viewing car parks is plenty. Also the new road down to the ATC tower will be a quiet road and i would imagine pulling in there would be safer.

EI321 · 22-02-2020 12:11am

sparrowcar wrote: »

It's a dangerous enough road if people were to be distracted by planes. 2 separate viewing car parks is plenty. Also the new road down to the ATC tower will be a quiet road and i would imagine pulling in there would be safer.

The existing viewing area is seriously dangerous, its surprising that its allowed in 2020 in its current setup. Cars doing 100kph down that road with the distraction of aircraft landing alongside and with cars pulling out and poor visibility. Add to that the fact that some people bring children there and some people seem to think its ok to walk along the grass verge at the roadside.

The area at the threshold of runway 16 is even worse when cars try to park there in bad weather.

Tenger · 22-02-2020 12:53am

Keep in mind that the "viewing area" is literally just a layby. It has become a viewing area due to the growth in spotter numbers.
It's not an official location. So ppl stating that "something should be done" are just barking into the wind.

IngazZagni · 22-02-2020 1:15pm

I also think it's a discrace the amount of rubbish people leave behind them there. If the bin is full then bring it home with you!

EI321 · 22-02-2020 1:30pm

There's nothing stopping the council putting up a few signs or road markings to slow traffic at a dangerous section of road, regardless of what name they want to give it.

Neilw · 23-02-2020 11:17pm

EI321 wrote: »

There's nothing stopping the council putting up a few signs or road markings to slow traffic at a dangerous section of road, regardless of what name they want to give it.

It’s already a 60kph limit there, plus that road is part of the 903 new speed camera locations.
Whether there is ever any enforcement is another story.

plodder · 24-02-2020 10:57am

Neilw wrote: »

It’s already a 60kph limit there, plus that road is part of the 903 new speed camera locations.
Whether there is ever any enforcement is another story.

That's good to know as that place is an accident waiting to happen. If it's a location for the gosafe vans then I think there will be enforcement.

no.8 · 24-02-2020 8:19pm

It's an awful shame that the DAA / local authorities didnt accommodate spotter infrastructure into the major upgrade of the Dublin Airport site. Numerous airports have turned purpose built strategically located areas into business opportunities and safe areas for the aviation community or those with an interest to meet, engage and marvel at the operations and aircraft (e.g. exactly what they did at ZRH for example). Instead, they cordon off the site from visitors and put the main road airside of spotter mounds. No observation deck at the terminal either. What an absolute shame on them

HTCOne · 24-02-2020 10:34pm

no.8 wrote: »

It's an awful shame that the DAA / local authorities didnt accommodate spotter infrastructure into the major upgrade of the Dublin Airport site. Numerous airports have turned purpose built strategically located areas into business opportunities and safe areas for the aviation community or those with an interest to meet, engage and marvel at the operations and aircraft (e.g. exactly what they did at ZRH for example). Instead, they cordon off the site from visitors and put the main road airside of spotter mounds. No observation deck at the terminal either. What an absolute shame on them

Do they own the land where the mound and other spotting areas are or do they belong to FCC? Agreed about a viewing deck in the terminals.

EI321 · 25-02-2020 12:09am

HTCOne wrote: »

Do they own the land where the mound and other spotting areas are or do they belong to FCC? Agreed about a viewing deck in the terminals.

I believe its the council that own it. Fingal Co. Co. are the ones that empty the bins. You'd think that by now they would have installed another few bins rather than letting the existing one overflow every week.

Stealthirl · 05-03-2020 12:46am

Tenger wrote: »

Keep in mind that the "viewing area" is literally just a layby. It has become a viewing area due to the growth in spotter numbers.
It's not an official location.

I disagree, i remember spotting there in the early 90's when there was a well worn track up a hump where you could park a car or 3 and have a fantastic view like the one on the end of 10/28 at gate 14 that sees very little usage now.
Im old enough to remember the rooftop viewing area and the area up stairs in T1 that use to overlook the apron that over the years got smaller and smaller and then disappeared

I don't think there's anywhere Landside you can see out to the apron now

I think i read someone got an old tour bus and converted it to a mobile spotting platform with a coffee/tea shop and moved it around some other Airport, something like that would be fantastic.

MJohnston · 05-03-2020 9:12am

I drove the perimeter roads the other day while waiting to pick someone up, and I noticed that along the road that's parallel to the new runway, there are at least 2 large, properly paved parking areas that should provide a very decent view of the runway.

Kev11491 · 08-03-2020 12:48pm

Government was 'on the brink' of making decision on third terminal for Dublin Airport before election called https://jrnl.ie/5035664

Jack1985 · 08-03-2020 8:17pm

Thank god Shane Ross lost his seat.

Idbatterim · 09-03-2020 1:46am

Kev11491 wrote: »

Government was 'on the brink' of making decision on third terminal for Dublin Airport before election called https://jrnl.ie/5035664

Would bring more traffic to airport if there is a competing terminal

Hotblack Desiato · 09-03-2020 3:19am

Complete spoofer. Journal treating his self-serving spoof as fact... :rolleyes:

Strumms · 09-03-2020 3:43am

Stealthirl wrote: »

Im old enough to remember the rooftop viewing area and the area up stairs in T1 that use to overlook the apron that over the years got smaller and smaller and then disappeared I don't think there's anywhere Landside you can see out to the apron now

.

I remember this too. We had a significant number of relatives in the 80’s and early 90’s living in the US and UK so we’d be up every number of weeks dropping and collecting and no trip was complete without a swing by the observation deck as I’d call it. I’d go up there and take photos, I’d an old but very good camera and a few weeks ago I found my collection of photos taken up there and from the back road too, might if my scanner plays ball try and get a few uploaded later in the week.

yannakis · 09-03-2020 11:44pm

By the way, Bing has new satellite images of greater Dublin and you can see great progress on the North Runway

https://www.bing.com/maps?&cp=53.436029~-6.257497&lvl=15

Jamie2k9 · 26-03-2020 1:19pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/daa-gets-green-light-to-change-for-new-runway-at-dublin-airport-1.4212788

IALPA have lost an appeal against taxiway changes for the new runway which IAA had raised no objections.

fox233 · 26-03-2020 1:24pm

Does anyone hear recall a check-in area downstairs beneath arrivals in T1? I remember checking in for an Aer Lingus flight there in 2008-09 or thereabouts. I've had a look online and it appears to be called check in area 14 and it seems to have been either only constructed, or modernised, within the last 15 years.

I was passing through arrivals in the airport a couple of weeks ago and walked past the now closed escalators which lead down to it. Why is this not currently used? Did they stop using it when T2 was constructed? Also - it seems an odd place to put check in, given that security is two floors above this on the main departures floor. Was there a short cut to security or did you have to take the two sets of escalators?

Jamie2k9 · 26-03-2020 1:34pm

fox233 wrote: »

Does anyone hear recall a check-in area downstairs beneath arrivals in T1? I remember checking in for an Aer Lingus flight there in 2008-09 or thereabouts. I've had a look online and it appears to be called check in area 14 and it seems to have been either only constructed, or modernised, within the last 15 years.

I was passing through arrivals in the airport a couple of weeks ago and walked past the now closed escalators which lead down to it. Why is this not currently used? Did they stop using it when T2 was constructed? Also - it seems an odd place to put check in, given that security is two floors above this on the main departures floor. Was there a short cut to security or did you have to take the two sets of escalators?

No longer required T2 added the capacity plus rise of online check in, self service and hand baggage only travel has reduced check in desk demand. Area 14 was never planned for a check in area.

salmocab · 26-03-2020 2:48pm

yannakis wrote: »

By the way, Bing has new satellite images of greater Dublin and you can see great progress on the North Runway

https://www.bing.com/maps?&cp=53.436029~-6.257497&lvl=15

What happens to the farmland between the runways away from the terminal side? Will it stay as farmland or do the DAA end up with it?

donvito99 · 26-03-2020 6:13pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/daa-gets-green-light-to-change-for-new-runway-at-dublin-airport-1.4212788

IALPA have lost an appeal against taxiway changes for the new runway which IAA had raised no objections.

Do we know what IALPA's specific concerns were, and why they thought the IAA's submission was flawed? ABP obviously thought there was no merit to their claims.

cameramonkey · 26-03-2020 6:16pm

salmocab wrote: »

What happens to the farmland between the runways away from the terminal side? Will it stay as farmland or do the DAA end up with it?

I think that may be where ulick mcevaddy wants to develop a new terminal.

alentejo · 26-03-2020 6:20pm

Would now be a good time to close the cross wind runway and complete the new runway. Favorable time of year and way less traffic

IngazZagni · 26-03-2020 7:45pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Do we know what IALPA's specific concerns were, and why they thought the IAA's submission was flawed? ABP obviously thought there was no merit to their claims.

Not exactly sure but I know the new amended planning permission reduces the amount of rapid exit taxiways from 2 to 1 in each direction which will probably increase runway occupancy time. The taxiways have also been narrowed to the minimum allowed under new guidelines. A few other aspects will have negligible effects in my opinion.

Not exactly sure why the union would object here and not the airline. Seems like a waste of resources.

sparrowcar · 26-03-2020 8:11pm

alentejo wrote: »

Would now be a good time to close the cross wind runway and complete the new runway. Favorable time of year and way less traffic

Spring isn't a favourable time of year at all for winds.

Cookiemunster · 26-03-2020 8:40pm

sparrowcar wrote: »

Spring isn't a favourable time of year at all for winds.

I'm pretty sure the poster is referring to the lack of (m)any flights for the next couple of months rather than the time of the year.

Jack1985 · 26-03-2020 10:11pm

alentejo wrote: »

Would now be a good time to close the cross wind runway and complete the new runway. Favorable time of year and way less traffic

It's closed except to SAR as per NOTAM's.

Cloudio9 · 26-03-2020 10:18pm

alentejo wrote: »

Would now be a good time to close the cross wind runway and complete the new runway. Favorable time of year and way less traffic

More likely a good time to mothball the whole project. Will be a long time before traffic recovers. Covid19 followed by a deep recession. DAA financial plans just went out the window.

MJohnston · 26-03-2020 11:25pm

Cloudio9 wrote: »

More likely a good time to mothball the whole project. Will be a long time before traffic recovers. Covid19 followed by a deep recession. DAA financial plans just went out the window.

Pointless - costs are already sunk, and the new runway is useful even if it were to be the only one in operation.

Nijmegen · 27-03-2020 12:06am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

More likely a good time to mothball the whole project. Will be a long time before traffic recovers. Covid19 followed by a deep recession. DAA financial plans just went out the window.

Remember when T2 was being called a giant white elephant during the last recession and the airport has been staring at capacity issues recently. Major infrastructure projects take a decade or more to plan and execute and their impact goes well beyond the year they open. This recession might be short or long, but within five to ten years at worst we will be back where we are now and cancelling the project will have looked quite silly.

JCX BXC · 27-03-2020 12:19am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

More likely a good time to mothball the whole project. Will be a long time before traffic recovers. Covid19 followed by a deep recession. DAA financial plans just went out the window.

Difference from last crash is Aer Lingus have established Dublin as a point to connect Europe and the US, it's much more of a hub airport than a decade ago.

Cloudio9 · 27-03-2020 1:01am

MJohnston wrote: »

Pointless - costs are already sunk, and the new runway is useful even if it were to be the only one in operation.

Most costs are not sunk

Cloudio9 · 27-03-2020 1:04am

Nijmegen wrote: »

Remember when T2 was being called a giant white elephant during the last recession and the airport has been staring at capacity issues recently. Major infrastructure projects take a decade or more to plan and execute and their impact goes well beyond the year they open. This recession might be short or long, but within five to ten years at worst we will be back where we are now and cancelling the project will have looked quite silly.

Doesn’t take a decade. The project could be ramped up and completed long ahead if the time it’s needed as it’s <2 years from completion.

Cloudio9 · 27-03-2020 1:07am

JCX BXC wrote: »

Difference from last crash is Aer Lingus have established Dublin as a point to connect Europe and the US, it's much more of a hub airport than a decade ago.

Not sure what point you’re making. Traffic is being reset to zero. Many airlines will not survive. Aviation will come back but will look different in ways we
Can’t yet anticipate

EchoIndia · 27-03-2020 1:10am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Not sure what point you’re making. Traffic is being reset to zero. Many airlines will not survive. Aviation will come back but will look different in ways we
Can’t yet anticipate

We can all speculate but the truth is no one knows what the aviation scene will be like post-Covid-19. Predicting the future is one thing that mankind is hopeless at.

JCX BXC · 27-03-2020 1:18am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Not sure what point you’re making. Traffic is being reset to zero. Many airlines will not survive. Aviation will come back but will look different in ways we
Can’t yet anticipate

If we can't anticipate, why are you saying they should stop building the runway?

Traffic is zero at the moment, but that's because you're not allowed to leave your country.

MJohnston · 27-03-2020 1:19am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Most costs are not sunk

Even if that were true (any source, or just you speculating?) it wouldn't matter. Given how far the work has progressed already, a significant amount will have been sunk.

MJohnston · 27-03-2020 1:23am

JCX BXC wrote: »

If we can't anticipate, why are you saying they should stop building the runway?

Traffic is zero at the moment, but that's because you're not allowed to leave your country.

Traffic isn't zero. Number of flights is remarkably only down by 53%.

JCX BXC · 27-03-2020 1:28am

MJohnston wrote: »

Traffic isn't zero. Number of flights is remarkably only down by 53%.

Bad choice of words on my behalf.

53%? As of when? From a purely observational point of view the airport appeared very quiet on flightradar today, I'd be very surprised to hear that's half of the traffic.

MJohnston · 27-03-2020 1:31am

JCX BXC wrote: »

Bad choice of words on my behalf.

53%? As of when? From a purely observational point of view the airport appeared very quiet on flightradar today, I'd be very surprised to hear that's half of the traffic.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0325/1126310-ryanairs-dublin-flights/

Might be averaged over the month? Doesn't read that way, but it might be poorly worded?

Charles Babbage · 27-03-2020 1:42am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

More likely a good time to mothball the whole project. Will be a long time before traffic recovers. Covid19 followed by a deep recession. DAA financial plans just went out the window.

On the contrary this is the type of project that should continue. The work is outside and doesn't have any great issues from a contagion perspective. The work is of long term benefit and if the government or DAA are borrowing money then a long term payoff is appropriate. And of course both the economy and the airport traffic might rev up quite quickly again.

BonnieSituation · 27-03-2020 1:48am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

More likely a good time to mothball the whole project. Will be a long time before traffic recovers. Covid19 followed by a deep recession. DAA financial plans just went out the window.

Is it it money that you're trying to save here?

What advantages are there for mothballing the project?

Cloudio9 · 27-03-2020 9:58am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Is it it money that you're trying to save here?

What advantages are there for mothballing the project?

It’s just that without passengers daa cash flow in from airlines and retail will have dried up.

Having contractors on site meeting milestones on projects will trigger payments

The runway might not now be needed for several years

It will take a long time after this for traffic to return to previous levels because without doubt the global economy is going into recession. That’s not speculation, it’s a certainty.

Secondly, and this is speculation , we don’t know if corona virus is here with us for years, creating havoc with travel long term.

I get it from purely construction project point of view it’s probably ideal that there are a very small number of aircraft movements for the next while.

Jamie2k9 · 27-03-2020 10:18am

Cloudio9 wrote: »

It’s just that without passengers daa cash flow in from airlines and retail will have dried up.

Having contractors on site meeting milestones on projects will trigger payments

The runway might not now be needed for several years

It will take a long time after this for traffic to return to previous levels because without doubt the global economy is going into recession. That’s not speculation, it’s a certainty.

Secondly, and this is speculation , we don’t know if corona virus is here with us for years, creating havoc with travel long term.

I get it from purely construction project point of view it’s probably ideal that there are a very small number of aircraft movements for the next while.

Breaking a contract will trigger even bigger payments. There is no question about stopping and having it in place will deliver benefits in time. Back in 2008 had we stopped T2...

Traffic will bounce back, runways won't pay for themselves in 5 years but will long term.

CAR might not come out of all this looking to well after recent decisions!

Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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