Alex Jones content removed from Facebook, Youtube, Apple

ohnonotgmail · 07-08-2018 10:06am

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the shooter made their lives a misery.
in any case I don't consume Alex Jones' content and I also don't believe for one second that YouTube give two fcuks about the parents of Sandy Hook victims.

They do seem to give a fcuk about an online troll who actively harasses people who have already had enough misery brought into their lives. the only issue is why it took them so long

The_Kew_Tour · 07-08-2018 10:06am

Any man who goes after people who lost love ones deserves sweet FA in life.

He is a disgusting and quick frankly sick in the head

FunLover18 · 07-08-2018 10:08am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is this a good thing for freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech ≠ the right to a platform

thomond2006 · 07-08-2018 10:10am

P_1 wrote: »

Have to say I'm not a fan of no platforming. Irrespective of how abhorrent you may find someone's opinions its better to leave them in the open and open to public scrutiny and ridicule. As was mentioned in another thread its shlike this that will get the Orange Buffoon reelected in 2020.

I agree on the opinions part, however J*nes was involved in defamation and harrassment. Free speech shouldn't extend to being allowed to deliberately spreading bull**** and putting people in danger. Look what happened to the Sandy Hook parents.

While social media outlets may have opened a can of worms with this, for now I say good riddance.

topper75 · 07-08-2018 10:12am

listermint wrote: »

I disagree with your contorting of the freedom of speech to mean people should be allowed to say what they like on all means of media.

Well - then this raises that big question:

not what they like, but what you like? what who likes? Who sets this bar?

I don't think Alex Jones or his views need discussion in this thread. The banning of them - now that is 'interesting'.

If you think Trump isn't winning 2020 - here's an old Democrat gem for you "It's the economy stupid". People vote with their pocket, not on isms.

super_furry · 07-08-2018 10:14am

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Do you believe that the Left Wing Momentum organisation should be silenced online?

After all, their members have harrassed Jewish Labour MPs and issued death threats and vile abuse to Labour MPs that do not support Corbyn wholeheartedly.

My question is, where do you stop?

Anyone issuing death threats should be locked up and should be pursued to the full extent of the law, but this isn't a left wing/right wing thing, this is a basic human decency thing. Alex Jones is lying about the families of murdered children and the survivors of gun attacks. He's sending people after grieving parents in order to whip up his audience and ultimately to sell them snake-oil supplements and preper gear.

He's still free to do all that too, no-one is removing his free speech right. What we have instead is a handful of private company deciding that they no longer want to host his content.

He has the right to free speech, not the right to have someone else hand deliver and curate an audience for him.

topper75 · 07-08-2018 10:14am

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Do you believe that the Left Wing Momentum organisation should be silenced online?

After all, their members have harrassed Jewish Labour MPs and issued death threats and vile abuse to Labour MPs that do not support Corbyn wholeheartedly.

My question is, where do you stop?

Would it be so crazy if they ALL had their say and I got to use my own brain to decide?

Or maybe my brain can't be trusted - is that it?

Bob24 · 07-08-2018 10:15am

FunLover18 wrote: »

Freedom of speech ≠ the right to a platform

True ... the problem however is that we are not talking about *a* platform being removed here. We are talking about most major online platforms being removed.

The problem is not a company’s individual decision, but their collective massive influence and the fact that they make identical decisions.

That concentration of power and similar thinking is a genuine threat to free speech and democracy IMO.

Weepsie · 07-08-2018 10:15am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is this a good thing for freedom of speech?

They are privately run companies who don't need to care about someone's freedom of speech. They are not a public space.

HalloweenJack · 07-08-2018 10:15am

Didn't Alex Jones admit in court that he plays a "character" on his radio show?

I don't have a problem with hate speech being banned, e.g. "Kill Muslims", but people having a differing opinion, i.e. " I don't like Muslims", however unpalatable need to be challenged and engaged instaed of outright silenced.

I think it's a dangerous precedent and definitely leads to "surprises" like Trump and Brexit. Some people who voted for them would certainly have felt they couldn't express themselves publicly and probably avoided discussing the topic when an open discussion might have done more good.

super_furry · 07-08-2018 10:18am

topper75 wrote: »

Would it be so crazy if they ALL had their say and I got to use my own brain to decide?

Or maybe my brain can't be trusted - is that it?

Well let's extent that out to radical Islamists. Facebook and Youtube should not be hosting podcasts and videos for anyone seeking to radicalise people, be they young and impressionable Muslim immigrants or young and impressionable white kids in the west.

There are some people whose brains can't be trusted, hence the lunatics flying out to join Isis.

ohnonotgmail · 07-08-2018 10:19am

topper75 wrote: »

Well - then this raises that big question:

not what they like, but what you like? what who likes? Who sets this bar?

I don't think Alex Jones or his views need discussion in this thread. The banning of them - now that is 'interesting'.

If you think Trump isn't winning 2020 - here's an old Democrat gem for you "It's the economy stupid". People vote with their pocket, not on isms.

His views have not been banned. He is still free to express them. Just not on some online platforms.

Billy86 · 07-08-2018 10:24am

Looks like his defense of "I'm a fraud and all my followers are unreasonable idiots" (and not for the first time) didn't spare him here.

That literally has been his defense:

“There can simply be no statement of fact when Mr. Jones views a video of Anderson Cooper and provides his commentary and opinion with regard to possibilities as to why Mr. Cooper’s nose disappeared on the video, all the while directing the viewers’ attention to the very video about which he opined,” a motion to dismiss the suit filed by Jones’s attorney argues. “No reasonable reader or listener would interpret Mr. Jones’ statements regarding the possibility of a ‘blue-screen’ being used as a verifiably false statement of fact, and even if it is verifiable as false, the entire context in which it was made discloses that the statements are mere opinions ‘masquerading as a fact.”

He knows he's a fraud and that he's making all of this sh** up for clickbait, and he knows it is radicalising people into acts of terrorism but yet he continues to peddle those stories about child sex dungeons in pizza shops, school shootings that left toddlers dead being a 'false flag' (parents whose kids were killed continue to get death threats from Jones' followers, the government is controlling the weather, child slave colonies on Mars (no no, really), and on and on it goes.

And the gullible idiots lap it right up in a cult like Jonestown fashion, where the truth is simply what Alex Jones tells them. Good f***ing riddance, from these platforms at least.

super_furry · 07-08-2018 10:30am

https://www.newsweek.com/alex-jones-threatens-shoot-pedophile-robert-mueller-accuses-zuckerberg-1038500

In that one, he's making very thinly veiled death threats against Robert Mueller and accusing him of being the leader of a Hollywood pedophilia group.

I don't see how any platform could leave themselves open to lawsuits by hosting that kind of lunacy.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 07-08-2018 10:39am

Bob24 wrote: »

This. Anyone who genuinely thinks he has no chance of reelection is still living in the same social/media bubble they were living in 2 years ago and needs more exposure to the outside world.

Remember that he may lose the midterms and win. Clinton did.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 07-08-2018 10:43am

Billy86 wrote: »

Looks like his defense of "I'm a fraud and all my followers are unreasonable idiots" (and not for the first time) didn't spare him here.

That literally has been his defense:

He knows he's a fraud and that he's making all of this sh** up for clickbait, and he knows it is radicalising people into acts of terrorism but yet he continues to peddle those stories about child sex dungeons in pizza shops, school shootings that left toddlers dead being a 'false flag' (parents whose kids were killed continue to get death threats from Jones' followers, the government is controlling the weather, child slave colonies on Mars (no no, really), and on and on it goes.

And the gullible idiots lap it right up in a cult like Jonestown fashion, where the truth is simply what Alex Jones tells them. Good f***ing riddance, from these platforms at least.

Actually that is a common enough defense on the US. It’s what the national enquirer use as well. You can’t be defamed by the village idiot.

Bob24 · 07-08-2018 10:44am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Remember that he may lose the midterms and win. Clinton did.

Yeah any scenario is possible as far as I’m concerned. The country is so divided with entrenched opionions on both sides that I see the situation as being very open.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 07-08-2018 10:46am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The lunatic has been removed from the asylum.

No he hasn’t been, his music is still all over YouTube. My favourite is ‘Walking in the Air’

FunLover18 · 07-08-2018 10:47am

Bob24 wrote: »

FunLover18 wrote: »

Freedom of speech ≠ the right to a platform

True ... the problem however is that we are not talking about *a* platform being removed here. We are talking about most major online platforms being removed.

The problem is not a company individual decision, but their collective massive influence and the fact that they make identical decisions.

That concentration of power and similar thinking is a genuine threat to free speach and democracy IMO.

You either allow these companies to control their content or you say they have to put up everything that comes their way. There's no middle ground where you say certain companies can control content or only a certain amount can ban the same content.

Also anyone who thinks this is the end of his career or that he won't find another platform is sadly mistaken. He'll probably end up on Fox News.

Billy86 · 07-08-2018 10:58am

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the shooter made their lives a misery.
in any case I don't consume Alex Jones' content and I also don't believe for one second that YouTube give two fcuks about the parents of Sandy Hook victims.

Of course they don't, if they did they would have kicked him off years ago. A private company kicking you off their hosting platform is not 'silencing', it's them reacting to bad press that would likely impact their bottom line, such is the nature of capitalism. And as is also the nature of capitalism, if Alex Jones didn't generate so many clicks for the likes of Youtube and FB he would never have been allowed to break their TOS so often and would have been booted off of them a long time ago, so long as people reported his videos.

Bob24 · 07-08-2018 11:00am

FunLover18 wrote: »

You either allow these companies to control their content or you say they have to put up everything that comes their way. There's no middle ground where you say certain companies can control content or only a certain amount can ban the same content.

Ageee and I believe as a society we should think hard about this. When a handful of companies control most self-published online content distribution, have a final say of what gets in or not, and tend to all make the same decisions, in my view there is a democratic issue.

I don’t blame companies individually but that is a systemic failure which I think needs to be addressed. Either we force all of them to accept any content which is not illegal, or we break their oligopoly and force the introduction of other large scale distributors which can host legal content which is currently refused by all current major players. Having the standards of what is acceptable on large scale online platforms globally defined by a few company execs in California who pretty much all have the same ideological views is a serious issue IMO. And not just on this case, if you simply want to publish an illustrated art critique of a classical painting which shows certain body parts you will likely get shot down by most of them. Or if you try to express certain ideas they done like and become to popular. The collective power they have is huge and people would be wrong to assume they are safe and it only applies to others.

Mutant z · 07-08-2018 11:10am

This is just the start freedom of speech is being attacked worldwide for those who don't have leftist views, Antifa can be just as violent as they want and nothing is done to them but someone says something you don't like suddenly they get banned from the airwaves its not good for freedom of speech and democracy.

Malayalam · 07-08-2018 11:20am

Bob24 wrote: »

Ageee and I think as a society we should think about this. When a handful of companies control most self-published online content distribution, have a final say of what gets in or not, and tend to all make the same decisions, in my view there is a democratic issue.

I don’t blame companies individually but that is a systemic failure which I think needs to be addressed. Either we force all of them to accept any content which is not illegal, or we break their oligopoly and force the introduction of other large scale distributors can host legal content which is currently refused by all current major players. Having the standards of what is acceptable on large scale online platforms globally defined by a few company execs in California who prettt much all have the same ideological views is a serious issue IMO. And not just on this case, if you simply want to publish an illustrated art critique of a classical painting which shows certain body parts you will likely get shot down by most of them. Or of you try to express certain ideas they done like and become to popular. The collective power they have is huge and people would be wrong to assume they are safe and it only applies to others.

This is the problem. Who cares about Alex Jones..I don't anyway. But the global media monopolies are a huge problem. Not to mention their absolute control and manipulation of user data. User programming is not a conspiracy idea - it is active policy, direct from the Bernays school of propaganda. If people think it is benign, it is because they are uninformed.

ohnonotgmail · 07-08-2018 11:20am

Mutant z wrote: »

This is just the start freedom of speech is being attacked worldwide for those who don't have leftist views, Antifa can be just as violent as they want and nothing is done to them but someone says something you don't like suddenly they get banned from the airwaves its not good for freedom of speech and democracy.

Alex jones has gone slightly beyond "saying something people dont like". would you be happy for an extremist muslim to be given a platform?

Billy86 · 07-08-2018 11:21am

Mutant z wrote: »

This is just the start freedom of speech is being attacked worldwide for those who don't have leftist views, Antifa can be just as violent as they want and nothing is done to them but someone says something you don't like suddenly they get banned from the airwaves its not good for freedom of speech and democracy.

If a poster on boards.ie continuously breaks the forum charter, they tend to get banned. That is what has happened here, only to further the analogy, Jones was allowed break the rules for a lot longer because of the number of 'thanks' (e.g. views... e.g. $$$) his videos generated.

Basically, the biggest error was not kicking him off as soon as he hit the threshold for a ban, as would typically be the course of action when people with less followers do the same.

fleet_admiral · 07-08-2018 11:24am

Strange when feminists say 'kill all men' is not considered hate speech

Grayson · 07-08-2018 11:26am

Mutant z wrote: »

This is just the start freedom of speech is being attacked worldwide for those who don't have leftist views, Antifa can be just as violent as they want and nothing is done to them but someone says something you don't like suddenly they get banned from the airwaves its not good for freedom of speech and democracy.

get over it. Freedom of speech is the cause dujour of the right at the moment. Someone spills out hate filled bile like alex jones and when someone else doesn't want to carry that material they're suddenly against freedom of speech.

By all means political views should be free to be discussed but the outright lies that he vomits over the airwaves shouldn't be tolerated.

super_furry · 07-08-2018 11:26am

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Strange when feminists say 'kill all men' is not considered hate speech

Show me a Youtube channel where the owner is regularly saying that and advocating for murder.

Billy86 · 07-08-2018 11:33am

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Strange when feminists say 'kill all men' is not considered hate speech

Here's Youtube banning a feminist video for the use of the 'f' word - https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/youtube-bans-vile-exploitative-f-bomb-feminism-advert-1471386

Youtube deletes tonnes of videos and bans tonnes of content, and has done for a last time. It banned/deleted 8.3mn videos in the last three months of 2017 alone... that's more than one video per second being deleted. In the time I have taken to type this, they will have deleted over 100 videos. Today is just a day like every other day, the only difference is the person getting their stuff deleted happens to have a bigger following than usual (which is the reason he wasn't deleted/banned earlier).

dark crystal · 07-08-2018 11:35am

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Strange when feminists say 'kill all men' is not considered hate speech

What is this strange thing on After Hours where almost any subject being discussed eventually descends into....but feminists.

It's really fukcing tiresome at this stage. There's plenty of threads opining feminists, go ask someone who cares on one of those.

Grayson · 07-08-2018 11:40am

Billy86 wrote: »

Here's Youtube banning a feminist video for the use of the 'f' word - https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/youtube-bans-vile-exploitative-f-bomb-feminism-advert-1471386

Youtube deletes tonnes of videos and bans tonnes of content, and has done for a last time. It banned/deleted 8.3mn videos in the last three months of 2017 alone... that's more than one video per second being deleted. In the time I have taken to type this, they will have deleted over 100 videos. Today is just a day like every other day, the only difference is the person getting their stuff deleted happens to have a bigger following than usual (which is the reason he wasn't deleted/banned earlier).

That's the thing. The bigger you are the longer it takes because they probably assess it to a different standard.

Mutant z · 07-08-2018 11:40am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

This is just the start freedom of speech is being attacked worldwide for those who don't have leftist views, Antifa can be just as violent as they want and nothing is done to them but someone says something you don't like suddenly they get banned from the airwaves its not good for freedom of speech and democracy.

Alex jones has gone slightly beyond "saying something people dont like". would you be happy for an extremist muslim to be given a platform?

Speech is speech if you arnt happy with what someone says challenge them and muslim extremists call for sharia law on a regular basis but the left don't seem to be up in arms about that just about those who speak up against it.

Mutant z · 07-08-2018 11:41am

Grayson wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

This is just the start freedom of speech is being attacked worldwide for those who don't have leftist views, Antifa can be just as violent as they want and nothing is done to them but someone says something you don't like suddenly they get banned from the airwaves its not good for freedom of speech and democracy.

get over it. Freedom of speech is the cause dujour of the right at the moment. Someone spills out hate filled bile like alex jones and when someone else doesn't want to carry that material they're suddenly against freedom of speech.

By all means political views should be free to be discussed but the outright lies that he vomits over the airwaves shouldn't be tolerated.

Who are you to decide what is acceptable or not the thought police are well out in force it seems.

super_furry · 07-08-2018 11:42am

Mutant z wrote: »

Speech is speech if you arnt happy with what someone says challenge them and muslim extremists call for sharia law on a regular basis but the left don't seem to be up in arms about that just about those who speak up against it.

You're all over the place here.

This is about Alex Jones being banned on Facebook and Youtube for harassment and radicalising lunatics.

Isis, and muslim extremists are also banned on Facebook and Youtube for harassment and radicalising lunatics.

Grayson · 07-08-2018 11:44am

Billy86 wrote: »

If a poster on boards.ie continuously breaks the forum charter, they tend to get banned. That is what has happened here, only to further the analogy, Jones was allowed break the rules for a lot longer because of the number of 'thanks' (e.g. views... e.g. $$$) his videos generated.

Basically, the biggest error was not kicking him off as soon as he hit the threshold for a ban, as would typically be the course of action when people with less followers do the same.

I don't know what it's like on social media but I used to work for a huge ecommerce site. On it there were loads of independent sellers. With a small seller who'd just selling an item or two they tended to get suspended or temporary suspension for their first big infraction. With the guys who sell hundreds of thousands a month they would get coaching first. The idea is that they are worth a lot so the company didn't want to lose them.

Grayson · 07-08-2018 11:48am

Mutant z wrote: »

Who are you to decide what is acceptable or not the thought police are well out in force it seems.

My personal standard would be repeated lies that lead to other people suffering. By all means discuss right wing politics but when it's effectively trolling Sandy Hook survivors you've crossed the lines.

BTW, if you want to know what the lines are for social media companies, read the terms and conditions. The same terms and conditions that Alex Jones agreed to and broke. He knew what the rules are and you're complaining because he got banned for breaking those rules. That's a victim complex.

briany · 07-08-2018 11:52am

This'll surely play into Jones's hands. It would be mighty surprising if he hasn't got a rant up on Infowars about he's being censored by the globalists for getting too close to the truth, and his fans will absolutely eat that up.

I first heard of Jones when Danny Wallace was doing a series on SKY about conspiracies. Jones was one of the people Wallace talked to. Seemed a little less crazy, then. At the time, he was mainly known around Austin, Texas, where he was based.

ohnonotgmail · 07-08-2018 11:52am

Mutant z wrote: »

Speech is speech if you arnt happy with what someone says challenge them and muslim extremists call for sharia law on a regular basis but the left don't seem to be up in arms about that just about those who speak up against it.

The only people up in arms here are people like you. Challenging the likes of Alex Jones is pointless. They are not interested in a debate. In fact i would say it is actively dangerous to do so.

Mutant z · 07-08-2018 11:53am

You ban him then you start to ban everyone else who's opinion you don't like where does it all end.

Billy86 · 07-08-2018 11:53am

Mutant z wrote: »

Speech is speech if you arnt happy with what someone says challenge them and muslim extremists call for sharia law on a regular basis but the left don't seem to be up in arms about that just about those who speak up against it.

Mutant z wrote: »

You ban him then you start to ban everyone else who's opinion you don't like where does it all end.

Youtube and Facebook are services people sign up to in order to post their opinions and garner reactions - in this sense it is no different to boards.ie, only you post videos rather than words.

Now if I were to use this account to go on a years-long, tireless campaign of harassment of Ana Kriegel's family (the girl who was killed in Lucan a few weeks back) claiming it was a false flag conspiracy and they were in on it, which in turn led to multiple other boards.ie posters sending death threats and the likes to those same grieving family members, then got warnings from mods or admins to stop, but continued on in my claims that it was all false and a conspiracy, and that yes the family are indeed in on it as the death threats continued to flow in to the point that some of the family had to move home multiple times, hundreds of miles away form their daughters' grave... how long do you think my boards.ie account would last?

This is ignoring all the other ones and focusing on just one of the reasons Jones got kicked off Youtube.

ohnonotgmail · 07-08-2018 11:53am

Mutant z wrote: »

You ban him then you start to ban everyone else who's opinion you don't like where does it all end.

ah the old slippery slope. where would be without it.

07-08-2018 11:54am

listermint wrote: »

Trump has no chance of re-election in 2020 so let's put that to the side.

Sure give me a price. :pac:

super_furry · 07-08-2018 11:55am

Mutant z wrote: »

You ban him then you start to ban everyone else who's opinion you don't like where does it all end.

Hopefully with people who decide that in order to avoid being banned, they're not going to make death threats, make groundless accusations of paedophilia or send mobs after the parents of murdered children.

Grayson · 07-08-2018 11:58am

super_furry wrote: »

You're all over the place here.

This is about Alex Jones being banned on Facebook and Youtube for harassment and radicalising lunatics.

Isis, and muslim extremists are also banned on Facebook and Youtube for harassment and radicalising lunatics.

Hey, you forgot our leftist crypto islamofascist agenda. Now get back to growing your beard for the jihad. That beard you brought to the last jihad was embarrassing. You're letting everyone down.

DickSwiveller Returns · 07-08-2018 12:01pm

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Didn't Alex Jones admit in court that he plays a "character" on his radio show?

I don't have a problem with hate speech being banned, e.g. "Kill Muslims", but people having a differing opinion, i.e. " I don't like Muslims", however unpalatable need to be challenged and engaged instaed of outright silenced.

I think it's a dangerous precedent and definitely leads to "surprises" like Trump and Brexit. Some people who voted for them would certainly have felt they couldn't express themselves publicly and probably avoided discussing the topic when an open discussion might have done more good.

Saying "kill muslims" is incitement to violence and is already illegal. It has nothing to do with 'hate speech'

Sonics2k · 07-08-2018 12:01pm

Mutant z wrote: »

This is just the start freedom of speech is being attacked worldwide for those who don't have leftist views, Antifa can be just as violent as they want and nothing is done to them but someone says something you don't like suddenly they get banned from the airwaves its not good for freedom of speech and democracy.

You genuinely need to read up on what Freedom of Speech means and stop throwing it out.

A private platform is under absolutely no condition to allow people to have a voice on their service.

Alex Jones is nothing more than scum who abuses the insecurities and paranoia of people in order to make money. This is the same pile of human garbage that claimed the children murdered in Sandyhook were crisis actors.

ohnonotgmail · 07-08-2018 12:02pm

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Saying "kill muslims" is incitement to violence and is already illegal. It has nothing to do with 'hate speech'

how is saying "Kill Muslims" not hate speech? Similarly with his "All drag queens should be burned alive".

DickSwiveller Returns · 07-08-2018 12:03pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how is saying "Kill Muslims" not hate speech? Similarly with his "All drag queens should be burned alive".

It falls under incitement to violence

ohnonotgmail · 07-08-2018 12:04pm

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

It falls under incitement to violence

It is also hate speech. the two are not mutually exclusive.

Mutant z · 07-08-2018 12:06pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

This is just the start freedom of speech is being attacked worldwide for those who don't have leftist views, Antifa can be just as violent as they want and nothing is done to them but someone says something you don't like suddenly they get banned from the airwaves its not good for freedom of speech and democracy.

You genuinely need to read up on what Freedom of Speech means and stop throwing it out.

A private platform is under absolutely no condition to allow people to have a voice on their service.

Alex Jones is nothing more than scum who abuses the insecurities and paranoia of people in order to make money. This is the same pile of human garbage that claimed the children murdered in Sandyhook were crisis actors.

Just cut to the chase here you are against freedom of speech this is the sort of stuff people who are in favour of limiting free speech come out with they put it all in fancy words instead of getting to the point.

Alex Jones content removed from Facebook, Youtube, Apple

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