Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

hawkelady · 10-01-2019 2:12pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Unions given foot massages in the media instead of tough questioning, intended propoganda gets out loud and uninterrupted

This coming from you who believe nurses don’t clean anything at all ! I’ll take your comments with salt ! On the cleaning point , I also believe the cleaning companies that the hse employ to clean hospitals have it in their contract that they won’t clean blood or vomit or clean anything above waist high !! Who makes these decisions

Yillan · 10-01-2019 2:15pm

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't know how we can ignore the average pay.

If those that deserve it most aren't getting it, then it means that many who don't deserve it are. This should be something the nurses themselves should be looking at and suggesting change or else they are asking us (the public) to pay for the inefficiencies.

Where did this average pay figure come from? It sounds more than a little dubious.

hawkelady · 10-01-2019 2:20pm

Yillan wrote: »

Where did this average pay figure come from? It sounds more than a little dubious.

It does indeed. The wages of a suit pushing a pen at the hse is probably included

10-01-2019 2:24pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Why would I be joking?

So someone who may have waited, let’say 18 months, for an appointment would be a scab in your eyes for going to that appointment if it fell on a strike day? In theory, it’s not an emergency because they’ve already been waiting so long but why should they be called that derogatory word for crossing a picket line?

10-01-2019 2:24pm

Fuaranach wrote: »

...

Anyway, I suspect in at least some cases money is not going to solve the problems of nurses. Working conditions in some places are just awful, and generally the female-dominated professions like childcare, nursing and teaching get a raw deal because, and not to offend anybody, women in caring professions accept more crap than men would.

Or, because women in women dominated professions treat other women appallingly.

Tell me how · 10-01-2019 2:25pm

Yillan wrote: »

Where did this average pay figure come from? It sounds more than a little dubious.

hawkelady wrote: »

It does indeed. The wages of a suit pushing a pen at the hse is probably included

It does, but, Ivan Yates had the INMO secratary, Phil Ni Sheaghdha, on on Tuesday evening and she did not challenge him in the slightest on this figure.

And he laid it out in detail, and he went back to it yesterday and pointed out that they are due agreed rises as part of current public sector pay deal which will mean that it rises to 60K by the end of 2020.

If he was talking on his own, I'd take it with a pinch of salt, but Phil was very competent in putting forward her position so given that she didn't challenge it, I'm inclined to believe it.

Shane Colman/ Ciara Kelly used the same figure also earlier in the week and Ciara was very strongly arguing for a nurses pay rise but did not dispute the figure either.

Padraig Mor · 10-01-2019 2:25pm

Yillan wrote: »

Staff nurses start on 29k and over 13 years make their way up to 45.7k.

That's the nurse that you meet when you go into A&E.

Simply untrue.

You're ignoring the minimum €1858 allowance they receive for working in A&E (most will presumably have an A&E nursing course, raising the allowance to €2791)*. This is before significant premium payments for shift, weekend work etc, or other allowances. You also presume that they stay at the basic staff nurse grade, and do not go for promotion to more senior grades.

*these allowances are payable to a whole list of specialties and hospital locations, and are in effect additional basic pay for the large majority of nurses working in hospitals.

Theboinkmaster · 10-01-2019 2:29pm

hawkelady wrote: »

As the title suggests ... do you think the government will give what the inmo is asking for ? The way pascal and Harris is talking it looks like it’s going to be a long drawn out process. Who will buckle first. Btw, I do hope the nurses get what they want and they do a great job.

They should be paid more due to simple economical supply and demand.

We can't keep our nurses or hire them so they should be paid more.

Unlike gards/teachers etc. that do not have this problem.

Tell me how · 10-01-2019 2:31pm

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

They should be paid more due to simple economical supply and demand.

We can't keep our nurses or hire them so they should be paid more.

Unlike gards/teachers etc. that do not have this problem.

If we cannot keep nurses or hire them for reasons other than salary, raising the money will only create a bigger problem.

A report last year found that salary was a factor, but by no means the only reason we struggle to fill all positions.

Yillan · 10-01-2019 2:48pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Simply untrue.

You're ignoring the minimum €1858 allowance they receive for working in A&E (most will presumably have an A&E nursing course, raising the allowance to €2791)*. This is before significant premium payments for shift, weekend work etc, or other allowances. You also presume that they stay at the basic staff nurse grade, and do not go for promotion to more senior grades.

*these allowances are payable to a whole list of specialties and hospital locations, and are in effect additional basic pay for the large majority of nurses working in hospitals.

Interesting.

I've just been reading about the time and a sixth allowance they've been given for the transfer of tasks business. Is that for all hours worked do you know? Because that's a significant increase on their basic pay.

I was inclined to put the 57k average figure down to maybe overtime, and conflating the staff nurse salary with the cnm and adon salary. I don't think it's fair to look at promotion to senior grades. Many nurses will do a masters in their application to CNM. It's not simply a gradual promotion from staff nurse to cnm.

But all these allowances and premium payments do muddy the water a little bit. Are they more in line with physios and OTs than they let on? Clever girls (and boys)

Gimme A Pound · 10-01-2019 2:58pm

Lack of understanding and lack of empathy shocker.

Extremely tough job - great, under appreciated people. Very demanding hours. So what if they know this when they go into the line of work - someone has to. Doesn't make it unreasonable to seek fairer remuneration in line with what they do.

Sad at times too - encountering patients dying, and the pain for their families. On top of this all the bullsh1t paperwork. And sometimes disruption from scummy demanding aggressive patients.

My mother is a nurse - she is fecking awesome. Not a hope would I do it.

PhoenixParker · 10-01-2019 3:04pm

hawkelady wrote: »

It does indeed. The wages of a suit pushing a pen at the hse is probably included

The statement it comes from specifically says it's related to staff nurse salaries. No pen pushers, no management grade nurses.

James Brown · 10-01-2019 3:34pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Peanuts? Really?

That’s a starting rate.

Excluding overtime, shift allowance, pension and a job for life.

The public sector have never had it better.

But sure keep giving them more and hello, another recession.

Will we blame the nurses this time?

Seems you're ahead of the game on that one.

James Brown · 10-01-2019 3:35pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

The great thing about being self employed is that if you're good, none of those points matter

He takes internet giving out breaks in any way

Wheelie, have an aul' sambo next time, you can eat with one hand while shaking your other fist at the screen

mad muffin · 10-01-2019 3:38pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Simply untrue.

You're ignoring the minimum €1858 allowance they receive for working in A&E (most will presumably have an A&E nursing course, raising the allowance to €2791)*. This is before significant premium payments for shift, weekend work etc, or other allowances. You also presume that they stay at the basic staff nurse grade, and do not go for promotion to more senior grades.

*these allowances are payable to a whole list of specialties and hospital locations, and are in effect additional basic pay for the large majority of nurses working in hospitals.

These allowances aren’t worth **** when their monthly tax, fees and levies are more than their take home pay.

Tell me how · 10-01-2019 3:39pm

mad muffin wrote: »

These allowances aren’t worth **** when they’re monthly tax, fees and levies are more than their take home pay.

Everyone in the private sector pays monthly tax and so on.

Not everyone in the private sector has the job security or pension benefits the public sector have.

road_high · 10-01-2019 4:06pm

mad muffin wrote: »

These allowances aren’t worth **** when their monthly tax, fees and levies are more than their take home pay.

Ah same for the rest of us- these pay increases aren’t worth half their actual worth- Maybe we should all be demanding fair play on tax, ending the crazy waste that goes on. Rather than putting more petrol on the fire

mad muffin · 10-01-2019 4:40pm

road_high wrote: »

Ah same for the rest of us- these pay increases aren’t worth half their actual worth- Maybe we should all be demanding fair play on tax, ending the crazy waste that goes on. Rather than putting more petrol on the fire

This government has one trick…

eagle eye · 10-01-2019 5:28pm

Tell me how wrote:

And, lets be clear, I am coming from a position where I want to be convinced because I see the impact nurses have on people in very trying circumstances. I want them to feel rewarded for their duties. But, if they are getting â‚¬57k for that, I can also feel that that is adequate payment.

I'll give you a fact, any nurse with an unemployed husband and three kids would be at least as well off financially on the social welfare as they would be work a 57k per year job.
Do you want people to work in this country or sit at home and scratch their arses?

Wheeliebin30 · 10-01-2019 5:37pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

He takes internet giving out breaks in any way

Wheelie, have an aul' sambo next time, you can eat with one hand while shaking your other fist at the screen

Coming from the man who spends all day ranting and raving at Leo Varadkar and uses Leo Varadkars partners as his username on boards.

Do you ever post anything positive on boards?

congareel · 10-01-2019 5:43pm

they have permanent jobs,week on week off, most nurses spend most of their time at the nurses station watching pc screens, nursing attendants take care of the patients, and do any heavy work with the assistance of the fillipino nurses.the INO are never satisfied.

MrMusician18 · 10-01-2019 5:58pm

Yillan wrote: »

Staff nurses start on 29k and over 13 years make their way up to 45.7k.

That's the nurse that you meet when you go into A&E. The nurse who triages you and checks your vital signs regularly. Who draws up and gives you your medication. Who realises through experience that you are getting sicker, or that something has changed with your condition and tells the doctor. Who comforts you after you've been given bad news. Who will lift you up the bed when you've been doing your best to slide down the end of it. Who works 13 hour days. Whose roster bears no relation to the 9-5. Who can disagree with a doctor and isn't reluctant to question their decision for your benefit, even if it means they run the risk of being embarrassed. Who cannot afford to make a mistake on a medication dosage or calculation because it could mean they kill the patient.

I don't have any interest in the 'average' pay of nurses. They don't want their salary doubled. They want it brought more in line with the OTs and the Physios (35-52k over 13 years) . Try to get some occupational therapy after 5pm on a Thursday in your local ED while a nurse is putting a cast on you and hassling a doctor to chart you some pain relief, while looking after another 5 patients, who are among the sickest in the country. Then try to resolve in your head this idea that one should be paid more than the other.

It is a difficult, emotionally draining, cerebral job that should be paid better to reward those who are working in the HSE and attract talent back from overseas.

What roster is that nurse on because I didn't meet him/her in A&E a few nights ago.

Lift you up?! Yeah, I was left for 6hrs overnight and not even a glance from a nurse.

Maybe online distorts impressions, but I get the feeling that support for the nurses is not as overwhelming as it usually is. Maybe the public is finally coming to the realisation that the problems with the HSE is not money, or staffing, but the carving up of the healthcare delivery solely for vested interests (among which nurses are a large group) to the detriment of delivering an adequate service.

hawkelady · 10-01-2019 6:11pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What roster is that nurse on because I didn't meet him/her in A&E a few nights ago.

Lift you up?! Yeah, I was left for 6hrs overnight and not even a glance from a nurse.

Maybe online distorts impressions, but I get the feeling that support for the nurses is not as overwhelming as it usually is. Maybe the public is finally coming to the realisation that the problems with the HSE is not money, or staffing, but the carving up of the healthcare delivery solely for vested interests (among which nurses are a large group) to the detriment of delivering an adequate service.

Are you still going on about your splinter in your toe episode at a&e ? Jesting of course ... but most normal thinking folks will assume there were patients more needing of attention than you ? I take It you weren’t having a cardiac arrest in a&e .. you say you had a wait of over 7 hours. Have you read the news in the last ten years ... it’s common place , even worse in winter of course. Listen, I see by your tone that you think you had a negative experience but please stop harping on as it’s the norm in hospitals ! I’m confident enough that the nurses on weren’t all in the canteen playing cards !
I hear that the pna have announced their stoppages , it more or less ties in with the nurses strike. It’s going to be a tough feb. count your lucky stars you won’t have to go to a&e then, it’ll be a lot longer than 7.5 hours !

Tell me how · 10-01-2019 6:18pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I'll give you a fact, any nurse with an unemployed husband and three kids would be at least as well off financially on the social welfare as they would be work a 57k per year job.
Do you want people to work in this country or sit at home and scratch their arses?

I'm scratching my head here, what point are you trying to make?

No wage is enough if you have x number of dependants.

eagle eye · 10-01-2019 6:26pm

Tell me how wrote:

I'm scratching my head here, what point are you trying to make?

That a nurse should be earning a lot more than somebody on similar circumstance who doesn't work.
Nurses pay should be higher.

road_high · 10-01-2019 6:32pm

eagle eye wrote: »

That a nurse should be earning a lot more than somebody on similar circumstance who doesn't work.
Nurses pay should be higher.

I don’t get this. Are you suggesting nurses pay is now less than social welfare?

road_high · 10-01-2019 6:33pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What roster is that nurse on because I didn't meet him/her in A&E a few nights ago.

Lift you up?! Yeah, I was left for 6hrs overnight and not even a glance from a nurse.

Maybe online distorts impressions, but I get the feeling that support for the nurses is not as overwhelming as it usually is. Maybe the public is finally coming to the realisation that the problems with the HSE is not money, or staffing, but the carving up of the healthcare delivery solely for vested interests (among which nurses are a large group) to the detriment of delivering an adequate service.

It isn’t there. These people want a blank chewue courtesy of the state. The state can’t afford it, simple as that.

MrMusician18 · 10-01-2019 6:34pm

hawkelady wrote: »

Are you still going on about your splinter in your toe episode at a&e ? Jesting of course ... but most normal thinking folks will assume there were patients more needing of attention than you ? I take It you weren’t having a cardiac arrest in a&e .. you say you had a wait of over 7 hours. Have you read the news in the last ten years ... it’s common place , even worse in winter of course. Listen, I see by your tone that you think you had a negative experience but please stop harping on as it’s the norm in hospitals ! I’m confident enough that the nurses on weren’t all in the canteen playing cards !
I hear that the pna have announced their stoppages , it more or less ties in with the nurses strike. It’s going to be a tough feb. count your lucky stars you won’t have to go to a&e then, it’ll be a lot longer than 7.5 hours !

I needed medication to prevent an embolism, so yeah it was serious, so PFO with your "jesting". My GP told me to go there straight away as it was an emergency. I didn't care that I was on a trolley, but I did expect to be seen to relatively promptly as my condition could have seriously deteriorated suddenly. In fact they could have turned me around quite quickly, but chose not to.

And it is the norm. The patients that were abandoned next to me had equally horrific experiences.

Tell me how · 10-01-2019 6:43pm

eagle eye wrote: »

That a nurse should be earning a lot more than somebody on similar circumstance who doesn't work.
Nurses pay should be higher.

How much do you think the average pay if nurses should be.

The rest of your point relates to any profession.

eagle eye · 10-01-2019 6:44pm

Tell me how wrote:

How much do you think the average pay if nurses should be.

70k

LessOutragePlz · 10-01-2019 6:48pm

eagle eye wrote: »

70k

Seriously???

Alrigghtythen · 10-01-2019 6:48pm

mad muffin wrote: »

These allowances aren’t worth **** when their monthly tax, fees and levies are more than their take home pay.

It's not. Where did you get that from? A payslip was posted earlier, are we just making stuff up?

James Brown · 10-01-2019 6:48pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Coming from the man who spends all day ranting and raving at Leo Varadkar and uses Leo Varadkars partners as his username on boards.

Do you ever post anything positive on boards?

The name is in regards of having the craic. Are you from the Carlow Wheeliebins? I use to go to school with a Deirdre Wheeliebin, any relation?
I post about many things. When speaking on politics I mention the political leader of the country. Odd I know. When I see the nurses plan to strike and Leo talking sh*te I should be seeing what Mick Wallace has to say, I know

As for your good self, you come on talk nonsense, get called out on it and either run away or change tack like the above. Each to their own wheels.

facehugger99 · 10-01-2019 6:50pm

eagle eye wrote: »

70k

So presumably there'd be a good few on over 100k.

Better start planting the money trees now and pray for a bountiful harvest because the rest of the Guards and Teachers will be next out looking for the same.

Kinda incredible to think that we had a major recession only a decade ago when our current spending spiralled out of control on the back of highly cyclical taxes - I guess this time it's different.:rolleyes:

hawkelady · 10-01-2019 6:51pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I needed medication to prevent an embolism, so yeah it was serious, so PFO with your "jesting". My GP told me to go there straight away as it was an emergency. I didn't care that I was on a trolley, but I did expect to be seen to relatively promptly as my condition could have seriously deteriorated suddenly. In fact they could have turned me around quite quickly, but chose not to.

And it is the norm. The patients that were abandoned next to me had equally horrific experiences.

So you were waiting on a doctor to administer the drug. Clears it up.

road_high · 10-01-2019 6:55pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

So presumably there'd be a good few on over 100k.

Better start planting the money trees now and pray for a bountiful harvest because the rest of the Guards and Teachers will be next out looking for the same.

Kinda incredible to think that we had a major recession only a decade ago when our current spending spiralled out of control on the back of highly cyclical taxes - I guess this time it's different.:rolleyes:

The direct budgetary cuts really only ended a few years ago- the recession is still felt in all our pay packets.
We are sailing head long into deep trouble, these people have zero sense of public responsibility. It’s frightening

hawkelady · 10-01-2019 6:55pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

So presumably there'd be a good few on over 100k.

Better start planting the money trees now and pray for a bountiful harvest because the rest of the Guards and Teachers will be next out looking for the same.

Kinda incredible to think that we had a major recession only a decade ago when our current spending spiralled out of control on the back of highly cyclical taxes - I guess this time it's different.:rolleyes:

As mentioned before the guards won’t strike cause they recently threatened to go on strike and the government miraculously found 300 million to give them. What guards and 300 million can’t be found for nurses /pna

road_high · 10-01-2019 6:56pm

hawkelady wrote: »

As mentioned before the guards won’t strike cause they recently threatened to go on strike and the government miraculously found 300 million to give them. What guards and 300 million can’t be found for nurses /pna

Where are they “going to find it”?

road_high · 10-01-2019 6:57pm

eagle eye wrote: »

70k

Pluck a figure from the sky- public service thinking alright. Incredible

hawkelady · 10-01-2019 7:00pm

road_high wrote: »

Where are they “going to find it”?

Where did they find the 300 mill for the guards ?
Listen, I’m a neutral here, I can see both sides but I would be 51% on the side of nurses cause it’s a tough job .. pisses me off a bit when I read posts saying they never glanced at me or they are lazy. That was never my experience

MrMusician18 · 10-01-2019 7:01pm

hawkelady wrote: »

So you were waiting on a doctor to administer the drug. Clears it up.

5 hrs to be seen by a doctor and another 2 to 2.5 hrs for the drugs to be administered. And only because I asked for them.

The elderly man next to me was left without his medication all night despite being seen by three junior doctors.

Despite it being a busy ward, the staff still found time to have a chat about the new year's party, even with misery going on around them. To be honest, direction for the nurses comes from the manager and the CNM that night could only be kindly described as ignorant.

Yes, one night in one hospital shouldn't tar an entire health service, but the experience was far from unique.

I'd always have been an advocate for nurses but that night in A&E opened my eyes up to them being ever bit as wasteful as other parts of the public sector. Certainly not deserving of the pedestal that the Irish public has traditionally placed them on.

Wheeliebin30 · 10-01-2019 7:04pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The name is in regards of having the craic. Are you from the Carlow Wheeliebins? I use to go to school with a Deirdre Wheeliebin, any relation?
I post about many things. When speaking on politics I mention the political leader of the country. Odd I know. When I see the nurses plan to strike and Leo talking sh*te I should be seeing what Mick Wallace has to say, I know
As for your good self, you come on talk nonsense, get called out on it and either run away or change tack like the above. Each to their own wheels.

Hmmm, I only said yesterday you got absolutely rinsed in the government thread by about 8 people and you ran over to this thread.

Now you use my expression against me today?

road_high · 10-01-2019 7:09pm

hawkelady wrote: »

Where did they find the 300 mill for the guards ?
Listen, I’m a neutral here, I can see both sides but I would be 51% on the side of nurses cause it’s a tough job .. pisses me off a bit when I read posts saying they never glanced at me or they are lazy. That was never my experience

They took it from elsewhere, probably disability or something “easy”. Or the USC was kept- these massive pay increases always have to come from somewhere else, not the magic money tree unfortunately

eagle eye · 10-01-2019 7:10pm

facehugger99 wrote:

So presumably there'd be a good few on over 100k.

No. All on 70k.

Alrigghtythen · 10-01-2019 7:10pm

road_high wrote: »

They took it from elsewhere, probably disability or something “easy”. Or the USC was kept- these massive pay increases always have to come from somewhere else, not the magic money tree unfortunately

They closed wards in hospitals

Tell me how · 10-01-2019 7:19pm

eagle eye wrote: »

No. All on 70k.

So, the one with more experience and responsibility is on the same as the newly qualified?

James Brown · 10-01-2019 7:29pm

road_high wrote: »

Pluck a figure from the sky- public service thinking alright. Incredible

To be fair they find it when they want to.

mad muffin · 10-01-2019 7:34pm

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

It's not. Where did you get that from? A payslip was posted earlier, are we just making stuff up?

What pay slip? I know first hand

eagle eye · 10-01-2019 7:35pm

Tell me how wrote:

So, the one with more experience and responsibility is on the same as the newly qualified?

I'm not the policy maker.

James Brown · 10-01-2019 7:38pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Hmmm, I only said yesterday you got absolutely rinsed in the government thread by about 8 people and you ran over to this thread.

Now you use my expression against me today?

You imagined I got rinsed. I thought it was torn? I'm still over there. It's called diversifying your portfolio. By 8 people you mean the same three or four defenders of all things Fine Gael, (who had all their posts deleted?) as is their right. Mind neither them nor yourself are interested in discussion, just seem to lay in wait to pounce on anyone criticising the FG government, which albeit sad, is their right.
Now as handsome and interesting as I am, this is a thread on the Nurses. I made a comment about the nurses and you tried to make it about me.
Are you going to dock your wages for all the time you spend on me, on here?
Now off with you to complain about nurses, which is seemingly okay over complaining about the Taoiseach or others whose actual job it is to look after the interests of the tax payer...unlike say..nurses.

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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