Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Tell me how

Rubberchikken wrote: »

whats with the adoration for nurses?
they do a job. they dont perform miracles. yes they deserve a fair pay but so too does every othet worker.
the elevation of nurses and teachers in this country is inexplicable.

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

They are put up on a pedestal even though there is many other professions just as important if not more than nurses.

I think they do an incredibly difficult job and I feel that many of them who are dedicated really do deserve to be well paid.

Every nurse is not florence nightingale any more than every factory worker, trades person, solicitor, accountant or teacher is of an above average standard but the average nurse does an excellent and critical job in my opinion.

They are on their feet a large portion of the time if not all day, they have significant responsibility towards the experience of the patients, they serve an element in some degree of patient assessment and they must be empathetic when doing so.

But, if the average is currently €57K for this work and they have a guaranteed job, and pension then I feel it is just reward for what is expected of them.

If the average salary is wrong as it is skewed by numbers of nurses deemed as managers then that is a problem within the nurses own remit to address.

Ninthlife

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I should go on strike myself?

I work for myself.

I have no job security.
Pension.
Union backing.
Job for life.
Guaranteed wage every week.
Lunch and breakfast breaks
Etc etc

I get on with it, but it seems PS workers need to be breastfed at every point of their lives.

So because you are self employed you dont take breaks..?

So nurses shouldnt be allowed breakfast or lunch

You chose self employment so you knew there was no guaranteed wage

Why bring these up as issues

TCM

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Do you think throwing money at them will make them work harder?

Why? Do you think they don't work hard enough?

Wheeliebin30

Ninthlife wrote: »

So because you are self employed you dont take breaks..?

So nurses shouldnt be allowed breakfast or lunch

You chose self employment so you knew there was no guaranteed wage

Why bring these up as issues

Nurses chose this job knowing what it’s like.

Why should they bring their issues up??????????

TCM

Mad_maxx wrote:

He's a tax payer

So what, every is.

road_high

Mooooo wrote: »

The public service unions sold out new graduates to save themselves . Also it doesn't matter what degree people graduate with a large portion leave to go travelling etc because they want to, over half my own course did when there was plenty jobs at home

Threw them under the bus in 2010 to save their own arses and salaries. Now using them as weapons against the state for pay rises. What a bunch of charlatans

TCM

Bubbaclaus wrote:

Unions have ruined this country. They used to serve a very necessary purpose, but these days its just constant calling of strikes in order to get paid more and more.

In fact not so - less strikes now than in the past.

Sardonicat

TCM wrote: »

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Do you think throwing money at them will make them work harder?

Why? Do you think they don't work hard enough?

I don't think paying nurses more will do anything to im prove the health service. Some ( most) nurses work very, very hard indeed. Within an appallingly ran system.

Edgware

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Good on you dad. We should base our entire health system on his Sunday afternoon observation :rolleyes:

We shouldnt ignore this either. But then of course many people have swallowed the Florence Nightingale Nurse Vocation line.

Ninthlife

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Nurses chose this job knowing what it’s like.

Why should they bring their issues up??????????

We all chose jobs knowing to some degree of what they entailed. Nurses being unionised obviously feel based on their duties/conditions etc want better pay.

You stating im self employed i dont take breaks is bull, you could also have a pension if you wish, just pay into one as the nurses do.

road_high

TCM wrote: »

In fact not so - less strikes now than in the past.

That’s because they’ve been continually bought off- strike: here’s your pay rise.
Worked over and over so that’s why they keep doing it. It’s effective as it holds the state to ransom

Edgware

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I should go on strike myself?

I work for myself.

I have no job security.
Pension.
Union backing.
Job for life.
Guaranteed wage every week.
Lunch and breakfast breaks
Etc etc

I get on with it, but it seems PS workers need to be breastfed at every point of their lives.

And no doubt declare every cent you make

Lemonposset

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

1483/fortnight, 741.50/week


How much do they want?

This is the upper limit of the scale. For the best trained nurse, they will pretty much not earn more than this unless they move into a management position, which reduces the number of nurses to care for patients further. The €50K figure is skewed by higher salaries paid to nurse managers. That managers earn higher salaries doesn't take away from the fact that nurses actively nursing deserve to be paid adequately. Nurses aren't asking to start out on €38K/year but they definitely want to be able to earn more than that as they progress.

It is a thankless job as reading through this thread makes obvious but guaranteed if someone you love ends up in an ICU bed tomorrow you will hang on that nurses every word & see how rarely she/he sits, how physical their job is, how knowlegeable they are. It is just another job and it isn't just another job.

Tell me how

Lemonposset wrote: »

This is the upper limit of the scale. For the best trained nurse, they will pretty much not earn more than this unless they move into a management position, which reduces the number of nurses to care for patients further. The €50K figure is skewed by higher salaries paid to nurse managers. That managers earn higher salaries doesn't take away from the fact that nurses actively nursing deserve to be paid adequately. Nurses aren't asking to start out on €38K/year but they definitely want to be able to earn more than that as they progress.

I agree with the sentiment here, but, it is all nurses who are going on strike including those classed as managers, this means that should they be successful, the average will increase to just under 64K and while this might mean those on the ground are getting a wage reflective of their efforts, it also would mean more nursing management staff are, in my view, overpaid.

This is what I mean by the structure with respect to the number of nursing management staff is a problem and that should be something the nurses look to change as it is both inefficient and unsustainable.

Drifter50

Ninthlife wrote: »

So because you are self employed you dont take breaks..?

So nurses shouldnt be allowed breakfast or lunch

You chose self employment so you knew there was no guaranteed wage

Why bring these up as issues

Too many ridiculous statements being made here. Lots of us are forced into self employment after being let go by larger corporations when the age profile does`nt fit anymore and options are not available

Twenty Grand

Drifter50 wrote: »

Too many ridiculous statements being made here. Lots of us are forced into self employment after being let go by larger corporations when the age profile does`nt fit anymore and options are not available

And lots of us realise we can make much more money self employed that working for the man.

Ninthlife

Drifter50 wrote: »

Too many ridiculous statements being made here. Lots of us are forced into self employment after being let go by larger corporations when the age profile does`nt fit anymore and options are not available

Nothing ridiculous in my response to what one self employed person was stating.

Im not knocking the self employed but coming out with statements saying 'i dont get breaks cause im self employed' is nonsense

Tell me how

Ninthlife wrote: »

Nothing ridiculous in my response to what one self employed person was stating.

Im not knocking the self employed but coming out with statements saying 'i dont get breaks cause im self employed' is nonsense

Plus, there are benefits to being self-employed.

If there weren't no one would do it.

trick

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Extremely poor attitude. Urgently required medication not provided until after 7.5hrs after first presenting and after several times of asking and being rudely dismissed. I'd probably be waiting there still for medication if I didn't find the one nurse there that gave a ****.

Three patients, one with serious health complications was left all night without medication, requested several times of course.

That's not too mention the bickering between the nurses and junior doctors in front of the patients.


You could of course put this down to understaffing, and that is an issue. But the attitude of some of the nurses forgetting that they were dealing with very sick people, phoning it in, certainly made me question the caring narrative the unions paint. And that has nothing to do with pay or conditions. A lot of them really couldn't care less about you if they tried.

I’m not trying to justify anything you have said here but from the point of view of getting meds when in A&E. The docs need to prescribe them. Even if the patient is on them at home. There needs to be a prescription written up after the patient has been assessed by the doctor on duty. It is very frustrating for the nurses aswell when they know that a patient needs meds. The doctors are super busy aswell.
1 example doesn’t define the entire nursinr profession in Ireland. I’m sorry that you had a bad experience.
The other side of the coin is that there is a higher risk of medication error in A&E because of the high turnover of patients and so the nurses that you asked may not have been looking after your relative.

eagle eye

Who here would like to be a nurse? I certainly wouldn't be able fir that job.
I think they deserve a pay rise.

road_high

eagle eye wrote: »

Who here would like to be a nurse? I certainly wouldn't be able fir that job.
I think they deserve a pay rise.

I wouldn’t like to be a bus driver either...doesn't mean they all deserve a pay rise.
The beauty of a free labour market means people’s varied interests and skills can be matched to specific jobs and people are free to chose.
The country just can’t afford this carry on, we can’t afford to pay people based on emotions and fuzzy feelings

Tell me how

road_high wrote: »

I wouldn’t like to be a bus driver either...doesn't mean they all deserve a pay rise.
The beauty of a free labour market means people’s varied interests and skills can be matched to specific jobs and people are free to chose

That is part of the argument some are making suggesting there needs to be a payrise.

We do not have enough nurses ergo, we need to attract more.

MrMusician18

trick wrote: »

I’m not trying to justify anything you have said here but from the point of view of getting meds when in A&E. The docs need to prescribe them. Even if the patient is on them at home. There needs to be a prescription written up after the patient has been assessed by the doctor on duty. It is very frustrating for the nurses aswell when they know that a patient needs meds. The doctors are super busy aswell.
1 example doesn’t define the entire nursinr profession in Ireland. I’m sorry that you had a bad experience.
The other side of the coin is that there is a higher risk of medication error in A&E because of the high turnover of patients and so the nurses that you asked may not have been looking after your relative.

The doctors prescription was sitting in the drug room for two hours. The nurses I asked were in my section, they were just going to get it "when I'm ready". Just one nurse seemed interested in assisting when asked, and in fairness did get the meds, two hours after being seen by the doctor and 7.5hrs after arrival. So much for presenting as an emergency needing urgent care.


Other experiences that night: The elderly gentleman next to me was left all night without his angina and cancer medication, despite repeated requests. And the elderly woman on the other side was left with no pain medication all night despite having a suspected fractured hip and none of the four of us were checked on at all overnight. The four of us could have been dead and the first anyone would have known about it was when the doctors did their rounds at 7am.

You can blame understaffing for a lot of things but you can't blame it for attitude or the bickering between the staff. And neither will increasing pay change the way things work. If a vet treated an animal the way people were treated in that A and E that night, you'd never go back.

trick

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The doctors prescription was sitting in the drug room for two hours. The nurses I asked were in my section, they were just going to get it "when I'm ready". Just one nurse seemed interested in assisting when asked, and in fairness did get the meds, two hours after being seen by the doctor and 7.5hrs after arrival. So much for presenting as an emergency needing urgent care.


Other experiences that night: The elderly gentleman next to me was left all night without his angina and cancer medication, despite repeated requests. And the elderly woman on the other side was left with no pain medication all night despite having a suspected fractured hip and none of the four of us were checked on at all overnight. The four of us could have been dead and the first anyone would have known about it was when the doctors did their rounds at 7am.

You can blame understaffing for a lot of things but you can't blame it for attitude or the bickering between the staff. And neither will increasing pay change the way things work. If a vet treated an animal the way people were treated in that A and E that night, you'd never go back.

Have you complained to anyone about your care?
There is a designated person in the hospital that deals with complaints. Please make sure to contact them about your situation that night.
I have worked in A&E and I’ve been a patient in A&E and I know how frustrating it is to be on both sides. I can’t speak for what went on that night as I wasn’t there. If you weren’t checked all night that is something that needs to be brought to the attention of patient complaints because that isn’t right.

I’m all for threads like this on social media but if people aren’t advocating for themselves and making sure that they get the best care that they deserve then there is little point in starting the discussion on here at all.

I’m sorry again about your poor care when you were in A&E & I hope that you are recovering well

eagle eye

road_high wrote:

I wouldn’t like to be a bus driver either...doesn't mean they all deserve a pay rise. The beauty of a free labour market means people’s varied interests and skills can be matched to specific jobs and people are free to chose. The country just can’t afford this carry on, we can’t afford to pay people based on emotions and fuzzy feelings

Not enough people in this country choose to work as nurses here. These nurses are working very hard to make up for the lack of staff. This is why I wouldn't want that job.
They deserve more money for what they do.

road_high

eagle eye wrote: »

Not enough people in this country choose to work as nurses here. These nurses are working very hard to make up for the lack of staff. This is why I wouldn't want that job.
They deserve more money for what they do.

Where do you propose to take that money from?
Lower paid nurse salary can be looked at, but the problem with these ransoms is the higher paid ones will benefit equally and it’s very dubious as to whether they warrant raises- course they’re using the lower paid as canon fodder when the focus should be entirely on the lower paid entrants- that way the staff shortage could be tackled most effectively, if there’s an issue with initial recruitment and retention.
Salaries increases across the board are simply unaffordable, and not just in healthcare. If all these increases are granted we are storing up trouble again very soon, not long after we were last bankrupt.

eagle eye

road_high wrote:

Where do you propose to take that money from? Lower paid nurse salary can be looked at, but the problem with these ransoms is the higher paid ones will benefit equally and it’s very dubious as to whether they warrant raises- course they’re using the lower paid as canon fodder when the focus should be entirely on the lower paid entrants- that way the staff shortage could be tackled most effectively, if there’s an issue with initial recruitment and retention

Have you been in a hospital recently? Just have a look around and see how much work they are doing. It's non-stop for most of their shift.
All nurses deserve a pay rise.
Where does the money come from? How about we cut social welfare and give it to these hard working people?
I'm sure there are plenty of places to find the money. How about we don't reduce the USC and put that towards paying doctors and nurses?

eagle eye

Also I hope none of you are scabs. Don't go passing a picket unless it's an emergency.

gctest50

eagle eye wrote: »

Also I hope none of you are scabs. Don't go passing a picket unless it's an emergency.

It's not a real strike, they are just pissy because :



The INMO has identified Xtra Nursing Agency as one of those offering at least 20% higher than public sector pay. It said the agency is also offering increments for nurses in their first five years of working.

Scottish Nursing Guild is also said to pay 20% more than the public sector wage.


INMO General Secretary Phil Ní Sheaghdha said ”the public sector simply isn’t offering the going rate for the job. There is now a pay gap of 20% between staff doing the same work, at the same time, in the same hospital



https://www.thejournal.ie/midwives-nurses-4309347-Oct2018/


.

gctest50

Going on that, they just want their cake and eat it too


You wouldn't see them strike for better equipment