Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Sierra Oscar

gctest50 wrote: »

It's not a real strike, they are just pissy because :



The INMO has identified Xtra Nursing Agency as one of those offering at least 20% higher than public sector pay. It said the agency is also offering increments for nurses in their first five years of working.

Scottish Nursing Guild is also said to pay 20% more than the public sector wage.


INMO General Secretary Phil Ní Sheaghdha said ”the public sector simply isn’t offering the going rate for the job. There is now a pay gap of 20% between staff doing the same work, at the same time, in the same hospital



https://www.thejournal.ie/midwives-nurses-4309347-Oct2018/

It does seem a little mad that the HSE is forced to spend millions hiring agency nurses due to a difficulty in retaining nurses in the public sector. Over €100m was spent on hiring agency staff last year alone. Perhaps if young nurses were paid a decent wage they might be inclined to enter the public sector and stay in Ireland after qualifying? What purpose does it serve the Government to encourage nurses to take up agency work due to better pay and conditions in the private sector when the HSE ends up having to hire agency nurses due to staff shortages in the public sector?

Sardonicat

eagle eye wrote: »

road_high wrote:

Where do you propose to take that money from? Lower paid nurse salary can be looked at, but the problem with these ransoms is the higher paid ones will benefit equally and it’s very dubious as to whether they warrant raises- course they’re using the lower paid as canon fodder when the focus should be entirely on the lower paid entrants- that way the staff shortage could be tackled most effectively, if there’s an issue with initial recruitment and retention

Have you been in a hospital recently? Just have a look around and see how much work they are doing. It's non-stop for most of their shift.
All nurses deserve a pay rise.
Where does the money come from? How about we cut social welfare and give it to these hard working people?
I'm sure there are plenty of places to find the money. How about we don't reduce the USC and put that towards paying doctors and nurses?

I don't support the idea of having my carer's allowance cut to pay the nurses moreoney to work in a broken system, thank you very much.

Paying them more will not decrease their workload or improve their working conditions orale things easier for people on trolleys in A and E.

Twenty Grand

eagle eye wrote: »

Have you been in a hospital recently? Just have a look around and see how much work they are doing. It's non-stop for most of their shift.
All nurses deserve a pay rise.
Where does the money come from? How about we cut social welfare and give it to these hard working people?
I'm sure there are plenty of places to find the money. How about we don't reduce the USC and put that towards paying doctors and nurses?

Listen Paschal, it's your job to do the sums and make this work, don't be looking for tips on how to run the department here.

Lefty Bicek

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Nurses chose this job knowing what it’s like.

Why should they bring their issues up??????????

They're not moaning about you, though, are they ?

gctest50

eagle eye wrote: »

Also I hope none of you are scabs. Don't go passing a picket unless it's an emergency.

Siptu nurses will not join their colleagues in strike action over pay


Siptu has said its members in nursing will not follow their colleagues in other unions in striking over pay increases.


https://amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/siptu-nurses-will-not-join-their-colleagues-in-strike-action-over-pay-896601.html

Alrigghtythen

eagle eye wrote: »

Have you been in a hospital recently?

Yes

eagle eye wrote: »

Just have a look around and see how much work they are doing. It's non-stop for most of their shift.

That's not what I witnessed

Wheeliebin30

eagle eye wrote: »

Have you been in a hospital recently? Just have a look around and see how much work they are doing. It's non-stop for most of their shift.
All nurses deserve a pay rise.
Where does the money come from? How about we cut social welfare and give it to these hard working people?
I'm sure there are plenty of places to find the money. How about we don't reduce the USC and put that towards paying doctors and nurses?

It’s non stop for most of their shift?

So basically they are working the whole time in their job and been paid for it?

Well I’m shocked at the mere thought of that.

cruizer101

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

It’s non stop for most of their shift?

So basically they are working the whole time in their job and been paid for it?

Well I’m shocked at the mere thought of that.

From talking to a midwife I know she on a fairly regular basis does not get to take her breaks which she does not get paid for so is in effect working for free for that time. Also often has to stay back after the end of her shift for extra time for handover, again not paid for.

Also non-stop could mean on their feet for 13 hours, yes they are being paid to work but there is no denying it can be quite intensive work for a long day and yes I know they knew that before they signed up bu that doesn't mean they shouldn't be fairly compensated for the work they do.

Wheeliebin30

cruizer101 wrote: »

From talking to a midwife I know she on a fairly regular basis does not get to take her breaks which she does not get paid for so is in effect working for free for that time. Also often has to stay back after the end of her shift for extra time for handover, again not paid for.

Also non-stop could mean on their feet for 13 hours, yes they are being paid to work but there is no denying it can be quite intensive work for a long day and yes I know they knew that before they signed up bu that doesn't mean they shouldn't be fairly compensated for the work they do.

3rd highest paid in Europe??

Padraig Mor

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It does seem a little mad that the HSE is forced to spend millions hiring agency nurses due to a difficulty in retaining nurses in the public sector. Over €100m was spent on hiring agency staff last year alone. Perhaps if young nurses were paid a decent wage they might be inclined to enter the public sector and stay in Ireland after qualifying? What purpose does it serve the Government to encourage nurses to take up agency work due to better pay and conditions in the private sector when the HSE ends up having to hire agency nurses due to staff shortages in the public sector?

It makes perfect sense - agency nurses may get more into their pockets, but the HSE isn't tied into even more permanent contracts (on top of already having more nurses per capita than pretty much everywhere else) with associated pension payments etc, as well as being insulated from the abuse of sick leave rampant among nurses. Essentially, it's cheaper for the HSE to pay agency nurses more!

ELM327

eagle eye wrote: »

Have you been in a hospital recently? Just have a look around and see how much work they are doing. It's non-stop for most of their shift.
All nurses deserve a pay rise.
Where does the money come from? How about we cut social welfare and give it to these hard working people?
I'm sure there are plenty of places to find the money. How about we don't reduce the USC and put that towards paying doctors and nurses?

I'm always in favour of cutting social welfare and giving more to people who work (and in the case of nurses work very hard) for it, so a massive +1 to that from me!

eagle eye wrote: »

Also I hope none of you are scabs. Don't go passing a picket unless it's an emergency.

This attitude is very prevalent in Ireland and I hate it. It's not your problem if someone is striking, if you want to avail of a state service then you avail of it regardless.

Bubbaclaus

Give them the payrise but in return they should slowly withdraw the cushy public sector pension and let them join a private one like most the rest of the country.

Twenty Grand

Lots of begrudgery in this thread...

ebbsy

Give them whatever they want.

And that €57k average salary figure is probably bull****.

Pay them properly and more will come back.

road_high

ebbsy wrote: »

Give them whatever they want.

And that €57k average salary figure is probably bull****.

Pay them properly and more will come back.

I just despair when I read these comments- the nation is limited in what it can pay any public servant- where do you think the money comes from to pay “whatever they want”?
So many of the Irish populace are clearly finicially illiterate and it presents a massive problem politically

road_high

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

3rd highest paid in Europe??

Is this true? Couple that with one of the highest nurse to population ratios also it’s clear there’s something very wrong in how they are working.
We are told they work non stop on a shift- yet we still have chaos in the hospitals. Something just doesn’t comport here

road_high

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Lots of begrudgery in this thread...

No there’s realism and hard questions being asked. No one begrudges nurses or deny some of them work hard in difficult circumstances.
The country’s finances are just about threading water. We still pay the penal USC (a tax on top of a tax). Someone has to call a halt at some point and ask what’s going on with public pay and productivity

Twenty Grand

road_high wrote: »

No there’s realism and hard questions being asked. No one begrudges nurses or deny some of them work hard in difficult circumstances.
The country’s finances are just about threading water. We still pay the penal USC (a tax on top of a tax). Someone has to call a halt at some point and ask what’s going on with public pay and productivity

As I said before, our tax money is wasted in the billions each year.

I'd much prefer to see it going to wages than some quango or the box of shamrocks Leo brings to the US each year

road_high

Twenty Grand wrote: »

As I said before, our tax money is wasted in the billions each year.

I'd much prefer to see it going to wages than some quango or the box of shamrocks Leo brings to the US each year

All public spending bares scrutiny. Like them or loath them we need to have a govt and they don’t work for free either.
Billions are wasted, doesn’t mean we should continue doing the same

Mad_maxx

road_high wrote: »

Is this true? Couple that with one of the highest nurse to population ratios also it’s clear there’s something very wrong in how they are working.
We are told they work non stop on a shift- yet we still have chaos in the hospitals. Something just doesn’t comport here

Unions given foot massages in the media instead of tough questioning, intended propoganda gets out loud and uninterrupted

eagle eye

What is prsi spent on these days?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Also I hope none of you are scabs. Don't go passing a picket unless it's an emergency.

Are you taking the p1ss?

Tell me how

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Lots of begrudgery in this thread...

Where? Please point it out in this post.

• Many nurses on the wards and A&E departments countrywide work extremely hard in very difficult environments.
• I think they should be paid accordingly for this.
• Not every nurse is florence nightingale simply because of human nature.
• We are told the average nurse earnings is 57k per annum.
• If so, I think the nurses are paid more than adequately.
• If the average earnings is skewed because of managers, that is a problem.
• If there are too many nursing managers, the nurses themselves should look to change this.
• Nurses are public sector workers and are already operating within and agreed pay deal.
• Nurses need to recognize that their job permanency and pension entitlements is a very advantageous element of their employment.
• We cannot use money to hide inefficiencies in the system.

Please tell me where I am wrong in this.

If this was a thread on guards, teachers etc I would be equally resistant to just throwing money at a problem. There is no question but that nurses should be better paid than Luas drivers but the averages we have been told about indicate that they are.

road_high

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Unions given foot massages in the media instead of tough questioning, intended propoganda gets out loud and uninterrupted

The odd one that dares question them is vilified- Ivan Yeats and Pat Kenny usually don't let the union propaganda flow freely.
It's a very dangerous place we're in. Public finances are not in rude health and any downturn could hit them very hard indeed. Then it's back to more cuts and austerity.

eagle eye

Strawberry Milkshake wrote:

Are you taking the p1ss?

Why would I be joking?

Tell me how

eagle eye wrote: »

Why would I be joking?

Because the wages of the public sector are funded in part by the tax revenue from all workers.
Many, as you can see on this thread, are dubious about the entitlement of the nurses pay claims.

You are suggesting that we all ignore our opinions on the matter and give credence to the nurses actions so as to help them win.

Use of the term 'scab' is a deliberate attempt to cow those that might have a different opinion to those striking.

Not every strike is unwarranted, but, I have not seen any evidence yet to convince me outright that this is justified.

And, lets be clear, I am coming from a position where I want to be convinced because I see the impact nurses have on people in very trying circumstances. I want them to feel rewarded for their duties. But, if they are getting €57k for that, I can also feel that that is adequate payment.

Yillan

Staff nurses start on 29k and over 13 years make their way up to 45.7k.

That's the nurse that you meet when you go into A&E. The nurse who triages you and checks your vital signs regularly. Who draws up and gives you your medication. Who realises through experience that you are getting sicker, or that something has changed with your condition and tells the doctor. Who comforts you after you've been given bad news. Who will lift you up the bed when you've been doing your best to slide down the end of it. Who works 13 hour days. Whose roster bears no relation to the 9-5. Who can disagree with a doctor and isn't reluctant to question their decision for your benefit, even if it means they run the risk of being embarrassed. Who cannot afford to make a mistake on a medication dosage or calculation because it could mean they kill the patient.

I don't have any interest in the 'average' pay of nurses. They don't want their salary doubled. They want it brought more in line with the OTs and the Physios (35-52k over 13 years) . Try to get some occupational therapy after 5pm on a Thursday in your local ED while a nurse is putting a cast on you and hassling a doctor to chart you some pain relief, while looking after another 5 patients, who are among the sickest in the country. Then try to resolve in your head this idea that one should be paid more than the other.

It is a difficult, emotionally draining, cerebral job that should be paid better to reward those who are working in the HSE and attract talent back from overseas.

Geuze

eagle eye wrote: »

What is prsi spent on these days?

PRSI is spent on social insurance benefits.

State Pensions
IP = invalidty pension
IB = illness benefit
JSB = jobseekers benefit

etc.

Geuze

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

3rd highest paid in Europe??

I'd say most workers, in most sectors here, are among the top paid in Europe.

Tell me how

Yillan wrote: »

Staff nurses start on 29k and over 13 years make their way up to 45.7k.

That's the nurse that you meet when you go into A&E. The nurse who triages you and checks your vital signs regularly. Who draws up and gives you your medication. Who realises through experience that you are getting sicker, or that something has changed with your condition and tells the doctor. Who comforts you after you've been given bad news. Who will lift you up the bed when you've been doing your best to slide down the end of it. Who works 13 hour days. Whose roster bears no relation to the 9-5. Who can disagree with a doctor and isn't reluctant to question their decision for your benefit, even if it means they run the risk of being embarrassed. Who cannot afford to make a mistake on a medication dosage or calculation because it could mean they kill the patient.

I don't have any interest in the 'average' pay of nurses. They don't want their salary doubled. They want it brought more in line with the OTs and the Physios (35-52k over 13 years) . Try to get some occupational therapy after 5pm on a Thursday in your local ED while a nurse is putting a cast on you and hassling a doctor to chart you some pain relief, while looking after another 5 patients, who are among the sickest in the country. Then try to resolve in your head this idea that one should be paid more than the other.

It is a difficult, emotionally draining, cerebral job that should be paid better to reward those who are working in the HSE and attract talent back from overseas.

I don't know how we can ignore the average pay.

If those that deserve it most aren't getting it, then it means that many who don't deserve it are. This should be something the nurses themselves should be looking at and suggesting change or else they are asking us (the public) to pay for the inefficiencies.