Biofarm 2020

15-11-2020 2:13am

Water John wrote: »

Yes, but there are economic interests with a lot of influence for which this message is not in their interest.
It seems there is much hesitancy at EU level too to go the carbon payment route.

Hopefully this thread will continue with anyone coming across any thing, posting it. Thanks Endainoz (OP) for starting it.

For sure re carbon payment. They can take it for free.

Say my name · 15-11-2020 9:21am

Water John wrote: »

Yes, but there are economic interests with a lot of influence for which this message is not in their interest.

Hopefully this thread will continue with anyone coming across any thing, posting it. Thanks Endainoz (OP) for starting it.

I've been at the biochar this past year.

Brought the subject up once with two different teagasc researchers. One replied it was too costly to use on farm.
Another replied that as a feed for cows it doesn't work.

Thankfully the rest of the world moves on and doesn't listen to teagasc.

I know for a fact they were trying to allign themselves with a patented chemical to include in feed to reduce methane.
The same thing happened with protected urea when all urea needed was a carbon source included.
Big companies with pull, lobby teagasc and teagasc do the trials.
Unfortunately they're still on the chemical side. Bugger the consequences down the line and there always are consequences.

Markcheese · 15-11-2020 11:07am

Well , there's a bit of logic in teagasc following a company line .
It's something they can use to justify their budget,
X- product exists , has some level of spec sheet , and comes from a recognized company ... And more than likely has use manual ...
So teagasc either replicate that or adapt it to Irish conditions ...
There may be a level of funding involved from the maker or distributor... (we'll give you 10 grand to do 100,000 of research/advertising )
Whereas bio-char can't be patented , probably would need serious long term research ... Probably linked to a university ... And could threaten some of their business links ...

Say my name · 15-11-2020 11:46am

Markcheese wrote: »

Well , there's a bit of logic in teagasc following a company line .
It's something they can use to justify their budget,
X- product exists , has some level of spec sheet , and comes from a recognized company ... And more than likely has use manual ...
So teagasc either replicate that or adapt it to Irish conditions ...
There may be a level of funding involved from the maker or distributor... (we'll give you 10 grand to do 100,000 of research/advertising )
Whereas bio-char can't be patented , probably would need serious long term research ... Probably linked to a university ... And could threaten some of their business links ...

There's the English speaking academic world having not much interaction with the non English speaking world too.
On a world stage I'd guess a lot of this started in Austria, Germany, Switzerland. Then the manufacturing started in the Nordic countries. All have tradition of farming and forestry.
Then it migrated to the southern hemisphere Aus/nz with people of German, Austria, Swiss heritage.
Now China took it from the Aussies and Swiss and put their twist on it.
Then there's the Latin and southern American and African countries who were doing it already or were influenced by the Europeans.
In Ireland our research always looks to new Zealand. Our own twist on biochar was to send researchers out to China looking to develop it to use the waste sludge from the dairy processing plants.
Now it looks like they have a product marketed for its phosphorus reuse in agriculture. I don't know enough about it but it looks to have come down from high to make something of a problem.
In other countries they use timber here we use dairy sludge.

I suppose it's all positive but we can do better. We can support agro forestry and/or the forest industry and with biochar properly done it's a lifelong ammendment negating/lessening the need to use artificial fertilizer.

Across the stream.

https://youtu.be/_0QCFntQ99c

Edit: For the German side look up Dr.Claudia Kammonn. She'd be a good choice for Biofarm 2021.

Pinsnbushings · 15-11-2020 12:11pm

Say my name wrote: »

I've been at the biochar this past year.

Brought the subject up once with two different teagasc researchers. One replied it was too costly to use on farm.
Another replied that as a feed for cows it doesn't work.

Thankfully the rest of the world moves on and doesn't listen to teagasc.

I know for a fact they were trying to allign themselves with a patented chemical to include in feed to reduce methane.
The same thing happened with protected urea when all urea needed was a carbon source included.
Big companies with pull, lobby teagasc and teagasc do the trials.
Unfortunately they're still on the chemical side. Bugger the consequences down the line and there always are consequences.

I believe I read in the paper there is 55 staff on 100,000 a year plus working for teagasc. You'd hardly be too enthusiastic about stepping out of line in a setup like that if it jeopardised funding. As for value for money to the farmer????? Or like most state or semi state bodies value for the taxpayer..
Edit., they have done and continue to do a lot of good work too, so not totally anti Teagasc or anything but learning fast vested interests are everywhere.

endainoz · 15-11-2020 1:01pm

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

I believe I read in the paper there is 55 staff on 100,000 a year plus working for teagasc. You'd hardly be too enthusiastic about stepping out of line in a setup like that if it jeopardised funding. As for value for money to the farmer????? Or like most state or semi state bodies value for the taxpayer..
Edit., they have done and continue to do a lot of good work too, so not totally anti Teagasc or anything but learning fast vested interests are everywhere.

Overall I wouldn't have much time for them, they do have a couple of decent people in their organic department, but the majority of the helpful information they provide is easily available.

I did my green cert a few years back and it wasnt long after the milk quotas were gone. All they seemed to encourage was expand, expand, expand. More debt, more land, more stress. Not once did I ever hear a teagasc advisor saying to reduce a herd or to not build that shed.

More recently I was looking up a pdf document on hedging and the varieties to use etc. The first thing they recommend to do was to get a digger/jcb in to clear and dig a seed bed. I just kinda thought to myself, typical teagasc!

moneyheer · 15-11-2020 1:31pm

What are peoples thoughts on sobac
Sorry of posted in wrong thread. Asked teagasc advisor about said he didnt know much about it but would look into it never heard any more about it.

Markcheese · 15-11-2020 2:44pm

What's sobac ? ( I've no knowledge ,just nosey )

Say my name · 15-11-2020 3:17pm

moneyheer wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on sobac
Sorry of posted in wrong thread. Asked teagasc advisor about said he didnt know much about it but would look into it never heard any more about it.

I haven't used Sobac but I've used other microbial products with success.
They leave the slurry darker and more liquid.

Tbh though we should all really be trying to make our own.
If you look up JMS (Jadam Microbial Solution) , that should work as a slurry bug solution.

Only cavaet is if you've dairy washings going in the tank it'll kill the bugs and it won't work. But if you've two separate tanks then drive on.

(I assume you are on about the Sobac slurry bugs?)

moneyheer · 15-11-2020 3:23pm

Markcheese wrote: »

What's sobac ? ( I've no knowledge ,just nosey )

Sobac id a french company based in southern France specialising in organic soil amendments.

Water John · 16-11-2020 11:01pm

Have been looking at some mixes for grazing from a few sources esp organic suppliers. Disappointed with some which have very high perennial ryegrass %. Some have over 11kg in a 13 kg mix.
Will look at the Cotswolds mixes as suggested by someone. I've downloaded their catalogues.

Pinsnbushings · 16-11-2020 11:33pm

Water John wrote: »

Have been looking at some mixes for grazing from a few sources esp organic suppliers. Disappointed with some which have very high perennial ryegrass %. Some have over 11kg in a 13 kg mix.
Will look at the Cotswolds mixes as suggested by someone. I've downloaded their catalogues.

I spoke to germinal when I was getting my seed and they directed me to buy through the coop which I did. The mix I ended up with wasn't the 1 from the germinal website though, not sure where it came out of. Cotswolds seem to be the place to go though, not sure where you can buy in Ireland or whether they ship them over. Maybe it was mentioned at biofarm?

Are any of the recordings available for ticket holders yet? I don't see them on the website.

Water John · 16-11-2020 11:40pm

The presentations are available this evening and the recordings tomorrow evening.
You can get extra licences, for friends or non ticket holders by contacting them. Nice present for anyone who expresses an interest, 0719640688 or email info@nots.ie

Dinzee Conlee · 16-11-2020 11:57pm

Water John wrote: »

Have been looking at some mixes for grazing from a few sources esp organic suppliers. Disappointed with some which have very high perennial ryegrass %. Some have over 11kg in a 13 kg mix.
Will look at the Cotswolds mixes as suggested by someone. I've downloaded their catalogues.

Not sure if you looked at this crowd already Walter?
https://www.fruithillfarm.com/seeds-and-propagation/green-manures-and-forage-crops/grass-and-meadow-mixes.html

Water John · 17-11-2020 12:06am

Dinzee I actually use them as I'm organic, thanks. Their Organic Herbal Ley looks good but is 5% herbs enough?

https://www.fruithillfarm.com/seeds-and-propagation/green-manures-and-forage-crops/grass-and-meadow-mixes/permanent-pasture-44-with-herbs.html

Herbs; Caraway, Dill, Burnet, Fenugreek, Yarrow, Fennel, Coriander, Parsnip, Ribgrass,Trefoil, Parsley, Yellow Clover, Wild Carrot, Black Cumin, Birdsfoot Trefoil, Salad Burnet

endainoz · 17-11-2020 1:46am

Water John wrote: »

Dinzee I actually use them as I'm organic, thanks. Their Organic Herbal Ley looks good but is 5% herbs enough?

https://www.fruithillfarm.com/seeds-and-propagation/green-manures-and-forage-crops/grass-and-meadow-mixes/permanent-pasture-44-with-herbs.html

Herbs; Caraway, Dill, Burnet, Fenugreek, Yarrow, Fennel, Coriander, Parsnip, Ribgrass,Trefoil, Parsley, Yellow Clover, Wild Carrot, Black Cumin, Birdsfoot Trefoil, Salad Burnet

I was thinking of getting some of this mix myself actually, will be interesting to see how it comes out.

Water John · 17-11-2020 1:56am

Well I was reaching out, in light of all we heard last week, as to what mix would be appropriate for grazing. For example I included 1 kg annual bird flower seeds in my WBC mix. They were nice in the field but really not very abundant. Wondering is 5% not very effective?
Suggested mixes would be very welcome.

Markcheese · 17-11-2020 5:30am

Does the quantity depend on the seed size ,?
So 5 % by weight of something with a tiny seed size could be loads .... Or not if the seeds are huge ..

Water John · 17-11-2020 11:09am

Markcheese wrote: »

Does the quantity depend on the seed size ,?
So 5 % by weight of something with a tiny seed size could be loads .... Or not if the seeds are huge ..

Understand that, a good shout. I sowed WBC for Glas this year and put in 1kg of anuual bee flowers per acre in the mix along with 33kg oats and 5kg mustard.
That's about 2.5% and it was very little in the field when it germinated.

Markcheese · 17-11-2020 10:38pm

Could there be a germination issue ? Or the seed buried a bit ? Or even out competed by the mustard ?
But just as likely to be what you said about too little seed ..

Water John · 17-11-2020 11:15pm

Cotswolds from a brief look are the business.
Herbal Ley:
1.50 kg certified LAMPARD ORG hybrid ryegrass
1.50 kg certified HUSAR ORG cocksfoot
1.20 kg certified OAKPARK perennial ryegrass
0.60 kg certified WINNETOU timothy
0.50 kg certified LAURA ORG meadow fescue
0.50 kg certified KORA tall fescue
0.70 kg certified GLOBAL red clover
0.30 kg certified ABERHERALD white clover
0.20 kg certified ABERDAI white clover
0.20 kg certified LOMIAI alsike clover
0.20 kg certified LEO birdsfoot trefoil
0.30 kg certified LUZELLE lucerne
3.00 kg certified ORG sainfoin
0.50 kg commercial sweet clover
0.60 kg certified PUNA II chicory
0.20 kg certified ENDURANCE ribgrass
0.70 kg burnet
0.10 kg yarrow
0.20 kg sheeps parsley

That's 1.8kg herbs plus 3kg sainfoin.
Problem for me is, organic in Ireland allow a derogation, which you must apply for, a 70% organic mix. This mix 50% which may be what's allowed in the UK and I know you don't even have to apply for the derogation there.
Probably have to get them to formulate an Irish mix.

alps · 17-11-2020 11:26pm

How can you get from an existing rye grass sward to a multi species one if you were not to use glyphosate and dont want to (or couldn't deal with) ploughing?

Dinzee Conlee · 17-11-2020 11:27pm

Water John wrote: »

Cotswolds from a brief look are the business.
Herbal Ley:
1.50 kg certified LAMPARD ORG hybrid ryegrass
1.50 kg certified HUSAR ORG cocksfoot
1.20 kg certified OAKPARK perennial ryegrass
0.60 kg certified WINNETOU timothy
0.50 kg certified LAURA ORG meadow fescue
0.50 kg certified KORA tall fescue
0.70 kg certified GLOBAL red clover
0.30 kg certified ABERHERALD white clover
0.20 kg certified ABERDAI white clover
0.20 kg certified LOMIAI alsike clover
0.20 kg certified LEO birdsfoot trefoil
0.30 kg certified LUZELLE lucerne
3.00 kg certified ORG sainfoin
0.50 kg commercial sweet clover
0.60 kg certified PUNA II chicory
0.20 kg certified ENDURANCE ribgrass
0.70 kg burnet
0.10 kg yarrow
0.20 kg sheeps parsley

That's 1.8kg herbs plus 3kg sainfoin.
Problem for me is, organic in Ireland allow a derogation, which you must apply for, a 70% organic mix. This mix 50% which may be what's allowed in the UK and I know you don't even have to apply for the derogation there.
Probably have to get them to formulate an Irish mix.

Did someone here say that sainfoin doesn’t do well in Ireland?

alps · 17-11-2020 11:29pm

alps wrote: »

How can you get from an existing rye grass sward to a multi species one if you were not to use glyphosate and dont want to (or couldn't deal with) ploughing?

I've worked ryegrass and red clover into existing swards, but means going in directly after a tight silage cut and grazing very frequently with grass or as such waiting till.the followingbseason for the clover to finally co.w through, butcher is no way the like of plantain and othe herbs are going to establish with frequent and tight grazing..

Water John · 17-11-2020 11:34pm

alps wrote: »

How can you get from an existing rye grass sward to a multi species one if you were not to use glyphosate and dont want to (or couldn't deal with) ploughing?

I suppose it depends on whether you simply want to diversify the present sward. Then a harrow is probably the best option and mix for this can be got. As indicated over the conf, and we all well know, severe grazing stunts growth for 17 days. That gives you a head start. Graze lightly after 5/6 weeks seems to be the recommendation.

Looking at the Rakeman 3000 which Reggie suggested in another thread.

I'm certainly no expert, just groping for the right choices, like most.

Say my name · 17-11-2020 11:56pm

Water John wrote: »

I suppose it depends on whether you simply want to diversify the present sward. Then a harrow is probably the best option and mix for this can be got. As indicated over the conf, and we all well know, severe grazing stunts growth for 17 days. That gives you a head start. Graze lightly after 5/6 weeks seems to be the recommendation.

Looking at the Rakeman 3000 which Reggie suggested in another thread.

I'm certainly no expert, just groping for the right choices, like most.

That thingamajig in Australia was called the Soilkee.

https://m.facebook.com/soilkee/

It's basically a shallow rotovator of sorts with an air seeder ..with no glypho used.

If you put too much bacteria on soil you can actually burn the roots a bit and stunt the plant. It's always the watch thing in knf. That's why they don't recommend to go over their recommended dilution rates.

Water John · 18-11-2020 12:04am

Say my name wrote: »

That thingamajig in Australia was called the Soilkee.

https://m.facebook.com/soilkee/

It's basically a shallow rotovator of sorts with an air seeder ..with no glypho used.

If you put too much bacteria on soil you can actually burn the roots a bit and stunt the plant. It's always the watch thing in knf. That's why they don't recommend to go over their recommended dilution rates.

Must look at it again but it looked simply like a strip seeder. The price was €56K ??

Say my name · 18-11-2020 12:27am

Water John wrote: »

Must look at it again but it looked simply like a strip seeder. The price was €56K ??

There's no disks on it. It's a revolving cylinder with straight tines/plates off it.

You could just give your own a run of a power harrow with seeder.
I think there's a thing with the multi species that some seeds like different planting depths that a strip till can't really manage.

alps · 18-11-2020 12:41am

Water John wrote: »

I suppose it depends on whether you simply want to diversify the present sward. Then a harrow is probably the best option and mix for this can be got. As indicated over the conf, and we all well know, severe grazing stunts growth for 17 days. That gives you a head start. Graze lightly after 5/6 weeks seems to be the recommendation.

Looking at the Rakeman 3000 which Reggie suggested in another thread.

I'm certainly no expert, just groping for the right choices, like most.

The 17 day bit has got me sort of confused.

What was presented was that roots don't begin to "recover" until 17 days after a grazing..

What happens them? Do they shrink while putting energy and nutrients up in to the leaf?

We hit between 10 and 12 grazings on paddocks this year, which meant that we were down to 18 day rotation mid Summer.

I cant make out how we have any roots??

Water John · 18-11-2020 12:41am

SNM look at the pic in this;
https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/machine/soilkee-pasture-renovator-a-saviour-for-tired-soils/news-story/66ec231af65de949c189fd17af12ff39

Similar to rotovator blades, spaced out.
Considering an air seeder is between €3/6.5k. It doesn't have covering tines or a press roller.
Do you think the mulcher at the front would provide feed for the new seeds?

18-11-2020 1:27am

Just by the by, people can still pay for a ticket and get access to the recordings, so for anyone holding regrets, the opportunity is still there to see what went on.

alps · 18-11-2020 1:56am

Deleted User wrote: »

Just by the by, people can still pay for a ticket and get access to the recordings, so for anyone holding regrets, the opportunity is still there to see what went on.

Book in as a "family member" of someone here and looks like there is a discount..

Markcheese · 18-11-2020 8:15am

alps wrote: »

How can you get from an existing rye grass sward to a multi species one if you were not to use glyphosate and dont want to (or couldn't deal with) ploughing?

I'm gonna guess do the opposite to a normal grazing routine , so low nitrogen... Tight silage cut ,followed by a couple of tight grazings before the sward has fully recovered , scratch up the surface a bit and either an autumn or spring sowing , a light roll ,
And then keep it lightly grazed ( calves or younger stock ?)
I suppose It's gonna depend a lot on the weather and soil conditions really ..

Try give the sward the conditions for what you want to thrive ...

Gawddawggonnit · 18-11-2020 8:56am

alps wrote: »

How can you get from an existing rye grass sward to a multi species one if you were not to use glyphosate and dont want to (or couldn't deal with) ploughing?

What’s the problem with using glyphosate?

Easy for the bandwagoners to knock it...but using it once a decade to clean ground is hardly going to cause a global catastrophe. If you notice the regen brigade from warm countries are always railing against it, but it is easy to do without it in those climates.

Say my name · 18-11-2020 9:10am

Water John wrote: »

SNM look at the pic in this;
https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/machine/soilkee-pasture-renovator-a-saviour-for-tired-soils/news-story/66ec231af65de949c189fd17af12ff39

Similar to rotovator blades, spaced out.
Considering an air seeder is between €3/6.5k. It doesn't have covering tines or a press roller.
Do you think the mulcher at the front would provide feed for the new seeds?

Do I think the mulcher would provide feed for the seeds?

In conventional that'd be seen as a negative and increased nitrogen fertilizer and lime would be required to break it down.
In regen they'd spray on humic acid and probably a little molasses and worm juice to break it down.
Take what you will.

A fully buzzing soil with diverse microbes would consume it faster easier than not.

gozunda · 18-11-2020 10:09am

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Did someone here say that sainfoin doesn’t do well in Ireland?

I think this one of the problem with some imported grassland mixtures. Sainfoin is not a native wildflower here. Its also a perennial so may take some time to establish as well. I'd prefer to see mixtures sourced from native Irish varieties as not only are they fully acclimatised and grow better in our conditions- they are often better suited for our insects wild bees etc.

endainoz · 18-11-2020 10:30am

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

What’s the problem with using glyphosate?

Easy for the bandwagoners to knock it...but using it once a decade to clean ground is hardly going to cause a global catastrophe. If you notice the regen brigade from warm countries are always railing against it, but it is easy to do without it in those climates.

Apart from the obvious? It's not allowed in organics for one. It kind of goes against the whole issue of insects being wiped out. We keep finding it in all our foods, and drinking water, it's being detected in breast milk. I kills everything in the ground and people maintain that's a good thing.

You like to use terms like "bandwagoners" or "brigade". It very much gives an "us and them" type mentality, almost goading to be honest.

endainoz · 18-11-2020 10:36am

Markcheese wrote: »

I'm gonna guess do the opposite to a normal grazing routine , so low nitrogen... Tight silage cut ,followed by a couple of tight grazings before the sward has fully recovered , scratch up the surface a bit and either an autumn or spring sowing , a light roll ,
And then keep it lightly grazed ( calves or younger stock ?)
I suppose It's gonna depend a lot on the weather and soil conditions really ..

Try give the sward the conditions for what you want to thrive ...

I would be looking into something similar, but in spring. I had seen the seeds for an organic mix from fruit hill farm. A lot of the herbs only need to be less than 0.5cm in the ground. A roll after broadcasting should achieve that.

I had actually spoken to Clive Bright about it and while he said he has had a good bit of success with it, timing is absolutely key for it to work. Soil temp hast to be 7 degrees or higher. Ground has to have a reasonable amount of moisture, (but not too much). Ground will need a tight graze or mowing 5 days after seeding to give new seedlings a chance.

It may be a lot of work but it's definitely achievable I think.

Markcheese · 18-11-2020 11:02am

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

What’s the problem with using glyphosate?

Easy for the bandwagoners to knock it...but using it once a decade to clean ground is hardly going to cause a global catastrophe. If you notice the regen brigade from warm countries are always railing against it, but it is easy to do without it in those climates.

Once in a decade , maybe .. but do you know anyone that uses it once a decade ?
It's cheap and ubiquitous , and gets used as such ,
It's not the worst spray in the world in itself , but it's so cheap and "accepted " that's it's often the first resort ..
Spray off that lay , then plow , maybe a pre- emergance spray ? Or if it's a gm crop just spray on through the growing season , if it's not gm , a pre-harvest desicant..,post harvest ? don't forget the hedges and fence lines ..
It's indicated in more poisoning events than any other farm chemical , not because it's particularly dangerous , (or at least instantly dangerous )
, but because familiarity breeds contempt..

Also a bit hypocritical to say don't use x ,it's bad for the soil .. and them go down the co-op for a 5 litre of x...

alps · 18-11-2020 11:38am

Markcheese wrote: »

Once in a decade , maybe .. but do you know anyone that uses it once a decade ?

That would be the majority of grassland farmers. Our rested cycle is just over 20 years. We have a couple of paddocks that are over 40 years old, and in our current input and grazing regime are just as productive as new reseeds.

If we headed down the path of multi species awards, unless they have a persistency issue, I certainly cant see glyphosate being any more than once in a decade or even once in 20 years product.

Say my name · 18-11-2020 1:50pm

Water John wrote: »

SNM look at the pic in this;
https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/machine/soilkee-pasture-renovator-a-saviour-for-tired-soils/news-story/66ec231af65de949c189fd17af12ff39

Similar to rotovator blades, spaced out.
Considering an air seeder is between €3/6.5k. It doesn't have covering tines or a press roller.
Do you think the mulcher at the front would provide feed for the new seeds?

This is the type of power harrow you want. Ha!

https://arti.com/four-winds-farm-grows-hemp-with-biochar-compost-mixture/

* the rest of the article is a bonus.

Gawddawggonnit · 18-11-2020 1:57pm

endainoz wrote: »

Apart from the obvious? It's not allowed in organics for one. It kind of goes against the whole issue of insects being wiped out. We keep finding it in all our foods, and drinking water, it's being detected in breast milk. I kills everything in the ground and people maintain that's a good thing.

You like to use terms like "bandwagoners" or "brigade". It very much gives an "us and them" type mentality, almost goading to be honest.

It’s easier ask a few questions than explain...
This thread ISN’T about organic, or is it?
Are you organic?

What regen ag are you practicing, and for how long?

Gawddawggonnit · 18-11-2020 2:03pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Once in a decade , maybe .. but do you know anyone that uses it once a decade ?
It's cheap and ubiquitous , and gets used as such ,
It's not the worst spray in the world in itself , but it's so cheap and "accepted " that's it's often the first resort ..
Spray off that lay , then plow , maybe a pre- emergance spray ? Or if it's a gm crop just spray on through the growing season , if it's not gm , a pre-harvest desicant..,post harvest ? don't forget the hedges and fence lines ..
It's indicated in more poisoning events than any other farm chemical , not because it's particularly dangerous , (or at least instantly dangerous )
, but because familiarity breeds contempt..

Also a bit hypocritical to say don't use x ,it's bad for the soil .. and them go down the co-op for a 5 litre of x...

Glyphosate has been flavor of the month for quite a few years now. It had been pencilled to be banned here next year. However that’s been overturned due to ‘deep scientific’ research carried out by Government.
They have slapped a tax on it though so it now costs €11/ litre...at that money it does make you think twice about using it.

Gawddawggonnit · 18-11-2020 2:11pm

Water John wrote: »

Cotswolds from a brief look are the business.
Herbal Ley:
1.50 kg certified LAMPARD ORG hybrid ryegrass
1.50 kg certified HUSAR ORG cocksfoot
1.20 kg certified OAKPARK perennial ryegrass
0.60 kg certified WINNETOU timothy
0.50 kg certified LAURA ORG meadow fescue
0.50 kg certified KORA tall fescue
0.70 kg certified GLOBAL red clover
0.30 kg certified ABERHERALD white clover
0.20 kg certified ABERDAI white clover
0.20 kg certified LOMIAI alsike clover
0.20 kg certified LEO birdsfoot trefoil
0.30 kg certified LUZELLE lucerne
3.00 kg certified ORG sainfoin
0.50 kg commercial sweet clover
0.60 kg certified PUNA II chicory
0.20 kg certified ENDURANCE ribgrass
0.70 kg burnet
0.10 kg yarrow
0.20 kg sheeps parsley

That's 1.8kg herbs plus 3kg sainfoin.
Problem for me is, organic in Ireland allow a derogation, which you must apply for, a 70% organic mix. This mix 50% which may be what's allowed in the UK and I know you don't even have to apply for the derogation there.
Probably have to get them to formulate an Irish mix.

I’d drop the Lucerne, Sainfoin, Trefoil and Chicory unless planting into very dry drought prone soils...

Say my name · 18-11-2020 2:17pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It’s easier ask a few questions than explain...
This thread ISN’T about organic, or is it?
Are you organic?

What regen ag are you practicing, and for how long?

He's organic as are other posters on this thread.
If you're following the forum they've mentioned it already.

Speakers at Biofarm mentioned the harm glypho does and this is the Biofarm thread.

And anyways you've mentioned yourself you're in transition to organic yourself.
Why the big defence of glypho?
Isn't there enough already to do that job?

alps · 18-11-2020 2:28pm

Say my name wrote: »

He's organic as are other posters on this thread.
If you're following the forum they've mentioned it already.

Speakers at Biofarm mentioned the harm glypho does and this is the Biofarm thread.

And anyways you've mentioned yourself you're in transition to organic yourself.
Why the big defence of glypho?
Isn't there enough already to do that job?

The damage seemed to refer to microbiome only. Is it just a reduction or a clear out? How fast can these repopulate?

How bad is a hit every 10 or 20 years?

Gawddawggonnit · 18-11-2020 2:33pm

Say my name wrote: »

He's organic as are many posters on this thread.
If you're following the forum they've mentioned it already.

Speakers at Biofarm mentioned the harm glypho does and this is the Biofarm thread.

And anyways you've mentioned yourself you're in transition to organic yourself.
Why the big defence of glypho?
Isn't there enough already to do that job?

I’m not organic, I’m conventional. It wouldn’t cast me a thought in turning organic only for the mahooosive investment in kit. With no successor I’m reluctant to make an investment like that at my age.

I buy Glyphosate by the drum (20L) now but when in Ireland I had to buy it by the palet. Different climate completely. The sun is as good as Glyphosate, simple as that. But in Ireland the climate is the opposite.
If Glyphosate wasn’t being used on cereals pre harvest (even on feed crops) and every ditch/drain/roadfront/electric fence etc there would be much less hassle with the chemical.

* The p1ss test has made a lot of media time here. You know the ‘my p1ss tested 0.0001ppm of glyphosate’ bullcrap. A bunch of farmers that use glyphosate regularly did the test recently...they had much higher traces of progesterone and chems from makeup than glyphosate. ( I’m assuming that they’re not on the pill and they don’t wear makeup...).

I practice regen for profit in a conventional farming system.

Say my name · 18-11-2020 2:36pm

alps wrote: »

The damage seemed to refer to microbiome only. Is it just a reduction or a clear out? How fast can these repopulate?

How bad is a hit every 10 or 20 years?

It's the antibiotic thing. It leaves antibiotic resistant bacteria. The rest are killed off.
And as Chris Trump gives the example of the lads in the pub with pints, the four year olds break in and run riot.

I don't particularly like to have taken this role but we can't be blindly saying we need glypho or we'll be doomed. We won't be doomed. We'll just adapt and change.
And as Christine Jones said find your way now to farm without it.

Gawddawggonnit · 18-11-2020 2:51pm

https://grist.org/article/2010-02-23-new-research-synthetic-nitrogen-destroys-soil-carbon-undermines/

Ten years old but still pertinent.
I’d consider N the singular most detrimental chemical to soil biology. The less I use the more vibrant the soil becomes. I’ve a very small N allowance and I didn’t even use it all this year as I’ve several tons in stock.

NcdJd · 18-11-2020 2:55pm

Say my name wrote: »

This is the type of power harrow you want. Ha!

https://arti.com/four-winds-farm-grows-hemp-with-biochar-compost-mixture/

* the rest of the article is a bonus.

Have ya got a rotovator Say my name ? From looking at that regenerator to me looks like an overpriced rotovator with an air seeder attached. 56 k is very steep. If you have a rotovator all you need to do is lower the skids and / or depth wheel, adjust the gears to the lowest rpm and away you go. You can get a decent second hand maschio C 100 inch for about 5k from the local dealer where I am. The back boards are built like tanks and are rigid. Blades are curved so less hp required from tractor. The Howard's can be adjusted as well same way, but you would have to find a way of making the back board not raise up due to the design of them, eg raised with a loose chain. Blades are L shaped obviously on them.

How is the seed covered with that contraption ? I don't see anything covering it when it comes out of the pipes.

Biofarm 2020

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