Biofarm 2020

Lady Haywire · 12-11-2020 7:25pm

Water John wrote: »

Yeah some of the ground I have moved to organic is a ryegrass silage sward, probably three species. Has done better than I thought. Now it needs more species esp know its prone to poaching and grew a great crop of dandelions this year.

Organic dandelion tea could be a niche product John

Pinsnbushings · 12-11-2020 7:26pm

Any key points on the multi species? I've sown 4 acres here in August as a bit of a trial not sure what to make of it yet. Sounds like the conference is very enjoyable, sorry I didn't sign up now.

Gawddawggonnit · 12-11-2020 7:30pm

There may be a slight misconception about conventional Irish livestock farms being well down the road of regen. They’re not.
Tillage farms can be quickly adapted. Grassland species need to be changed, and that takes time. Either way it’s a slow process.

Say my name · 12-11-2020 7:42pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

There may be a slight misconception about conventional Irish livestock farms being well down the road of regen. They’re not.
Tillage farms can be quickly adapted. Grassland species need to be changed, and that takes time. Either way it’s a slow process.

Soil microbial community on livestock farms would be way more abundant and diverse than tillage though.
Can tillage really become regenerative after years of fungicides and pesticides sprayed on soil?
We've heard on the talks about glyphosate being detected in foods.
There's tillage farmers using glyphosate and calling themselves regenerative.
Is not just taking advantage of the regenerative title for marketing?

Water John · 12-11-2020 8:04pm

Well some reseeding are still using Round UP to burn off, then a pre followed by a post emergent spray on grass. If that stopped it would big start.

Say my name · 12-11-2020 8:11pm

Water John wrote: »

Well some reseeding are still using Round UP to burn off, then a pre followed by a post emergent spray on grass. If that stopped it would big start.

What you mean some?
It's the majority.

I'm going to get myself in more trouble.
But..glyphosate is an antibiotic. It's why it passes through the system. You spray it on you'll kill a lot of bacteria and be left with dead bacteria bodies. The soil will look darker.

endainoz · 12-11-2020 8:14pm

Water John wrote: »

Well some reseeding are still using Round UP to burn off, then a pre followed by a post emergent spray on grass. If that stopped it would big start.

I only heard about post emergent spray lately, seems a bit crazy to spray already growing grass again and guaranteeing it to go into the food chain.

Any idea what's in it?

Water John · 12-11-2020 8:15pm

Ah I'm being diplomatic. Of course Teagasc are still pushing mono ryegrass, what does it need, fertiliser. Look at the Board.

12-11-2020 8:55pm

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

Any key points on the multi species? I've sown 4 acres here in August as a bit of a trial not sure what to make of it yet. Sounds like the conference is very enjoyable, sorry I didn't sign up now.

I'd say you could contact NOTS and still sign up, at least you'd have access to the recordings that way. They won't be available to non ticket holders like they have been in previous years.

alps · 12-11-2020 10:14pm

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

Any key points on the multi species? I've sown 4 acres here in August as a bit of a trial not sure what to make of it yet. Sounds like the conference is very enjoyable, sorry I didn't sign up now.

Little bit here that graise put up yesterday

https://twitter.com/JCBarenbrugNZ/status/1325502092962721793?s=09

A bit of inconsistency in the advise though as a speaker said during the week that if you hit the crown of the plantain plant it wont come back..

Birdnuts · 12-11-2020 10:26pm

An old farmer told me years ago that a well minded grassland soil will have a variety of mushrooms and fungi in general at this time of year - how much Irish grassland could that be said of these days??:(

wrangler · 12-11-2020 10:30pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

An old farmer told me years ago that a well minded grassland soil will have a variety of mushrooms and fungi in general at this time of year - how much Irish grassland could that be said of these days??:(

Well minded grassland means something different now than 50/100 years ago

Pinsnbushings · 12-11-2020 10:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say you could contact NOTS and still sign up, at least you'd have access to the recordings that way. They won't be available to non ticket holders like they have been in previous years.

Good shout, I had a look on the website and not too late to buy the ticket and have lifetime access to the videos.

Birdnuts · 12-11-2020 10:35pm

wrangler wrote: »

Well minded grassland means something different now than 50/100 years ago

Continuing to blitz it with the likes of chem fert and roundup will not see it in good shape to sustain future generations of farmers or where increasing numbers of consumers and governments want to see farming going.

Say my name · 12-11-2020 10:37pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

An old farmer told me years ago that a well minded grassland soil will have a variety of mushrooms and fungi in general at this time of year - how much Irish grassland could that be said of these days??:(

You'll get those tiny inch high toadstools just up to lately.
The white field mushrooms come end of July, August. Especially when dry weather is ended by rain.
There's another white mushroom that came where horses were grazed.

I think there's a link between increased phosphorus application and a decrease in mushrooms. It could be a specific phosphorus.

Water John · 12-11-2020 10:41pm

Birdnuts is trying to source his supply, this is the time of the year for a bit of a 'trip'.

Gawddawggonnit · 12-11-2020 10:46pm

Water John wrote: »

Ah I'm being diplomatic. Of course Teagasc are still pushing mono ryegrass, what does it need, fertiliser. Look at the Board.

Nailed it.

Nothing ruins soil biology like artificial N.

I’m not entirely comfortable with the cult or religion that regen has become...one can be an extreme fundamentalist type shouting down glyphosate use (etc) or one can take from it like any ordinary commercial farm that’s just trying to make a sustainable income.
Environment, economics and politics will eventually dictate the direction we take.

Say my name · 12-11-2020 10:47pm

Water John wrote: »

Birdnuts is trying to source his supply, this is the time of the year for a bit of a 'trip'.

Get you now.
Teddys bear picnic job.

Say my name · 12-11-2020 11:01pm

The day is getting closer that antibiotic resistance in humans and animals will be linked to glyphosate.
The wolf has been kept from the door for this long. But if antibiotic use goes down in animals and antibiotic resistance is still going up in humans then those guns will be turned on glyphosate.
Whether farmers care or not what their legacy has been on this planet I'd say the answer is known.
This will not end soon.

Edit: just to say this is not new. Herbicide use and antibiotic resistance was known about years ago. It's just not as if people would shout it from the rooftops.
2nd edit: and worse prescribed antibiotic use in animals might never go down if they continue to get feed with gly. Ok I'll stop now..

Pinsnbushings · 12-11-2020 11:04pm

alps wrote: »

Little bit here that graise put up yesterday

https://twitter.com/JCBarenbrugNZ/status/1325502092962721793?s=09

A bit of inconsistency in the advise though as a speaker said during the week that if you hit the crown of the plantain plant it wont come back..

I gave mine a light grazing with the calves about 5/6 weeks ago shortly after taking the photo attached. Going by that video I may have been in a bit soon?

Water John · 12-11-2020 11:16pm

Must have a further look at the Soilkee. Seemed to me to be similar to strip tilling and CJ also said that today. It's priced at €56K, wondering is that a mistake?

12-11-2020 11:37pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

An old farmer told me years ago that a well minded grassland soil will have a variety of mushrooms and fungi in general at this time of year - how much Irish grassland could that be said of these days??:(

Since I stopped spreading fert a couple of years ago I've noticed significantly more mushrooms.

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

Good shout, I had a look on the website and not too late to buy the ticket and have lifetime access to the videos.

Just one point on that, which I haven't clarified with NOTS btw. "Lifetime" often means the duration for which the videos will be online, so I'd advise recording if anyone sees any particularly valuable bits.

Say my name wrote: »

The day is getting closer that antibiotic resistance in humans and animals will be linked to glyphosate.
The wolf has been kept from the door for this long. But if antibiotic use goes down in animals and antibiotic resistance is still going up in humans then those guns will be turned on glyphosate.
Whether farmers care or not what their legacy has been on this planet I'd say the answer is known.
This will not end soon.

Edit: just to say this is not new. Herbicide use and antibiotic resistance was known about years ago. It's just not as if people would shout it from the rooftops.

Am I right that Hamish Bielski said he could do without glypho pretty easily?

endainoz · 12-11-2020 11:44pm

Say my name wrote: »

The day is getting closer that antibiotic resistance in humans and animals will be linked to glyphosate.
The wolf has been kept from the door for this long. But if antibiotic use goes down in animals and antibiotic resistance is still going up in humans then those guns will be turned on glyphosate.
Whether farmers care or not what their legacy has been on this planet I'd say the answer is known.
This will not end soon.

Edit: just to say this is not new. Herbicide use and antibiotic resistance was known about years ago. It's just not as if people would shout it from the rooftops.
2nd edit: and worse prescribed antibiotic use in animals might never go down if they continue to get feed with gly. Ok I'll stop now..

I had never figured it as an antibiotic, interesting, so I'd it possible for it to be an antibiotic and carcinogenic?

Say my name · 12-11-2020 11:47pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Am I right that Hamish Bielski said he could do without glypho pretty easily?

Probably ..the theme was there.

We could all do without it if we put our minds to it.

I think as farmers we're just to proud and pigheaded to believe that allergies and isms with children being born with now were caused by ourselves. It's always someone else to blame.
The same thing is happening with livestock.
Health goes down. Drug companies make more money. It's the modern way.

Say my name · 12-11-2020 11:51pm

endainoz wrote: »

I had never figured it as an antibiotic, interesting, so I'd it possible for it to be an antibiotic and carcinogenic?

It's classed as an antibiotic in all the regen books. John Kempf tomorrow might have more on it.

If your gut microbiome is fecked up, I suppose that leaves you more susceptible to developing health problems.

endainoz · 13-11-2020 12:13am

Say my name wrote: »

It's classed as an antibiotic in all the regen books. John Kempf tomorrow might have more on it.

If your gut microbiome is fecked up, I suppose that leaves you more susceptible to developing health problems.

Fair enough, but what about all the lawsuits in America with Monsanto? More proof is being found by scientists that it does cause cancer.

Say my name · 13-11-2020 12:24am

endainoz wrote: »

Fair enough, but what about all the lawsuits in America with Monsanto? More proof is being found by scientists that it does cause cancer.

I won't disagree. But the link is there to antibiotic resistance.
There's some among us on the forum might even do an Irish jig when the news emerged of it being used to fight cancer cells.
It does nothing for me. My cereal in the morning is probably coated in it. Probably explains my flatulence. Those crisps in the shop probably same.

gozunda · 13-11-2020 12:50am

Great thread - I managed to miss a lot of it...

alps wrote: »

...

A bit of inconsistency in the advise though as a speaker said during the week that if you hit the crown of the plantain plant it wont come back..

Interesting thing about plantain- is that it is a weed of cultivation - even if that is only reseeding of grassland

In the early days of North America being colonised - it became known as white man's foot because it arrived with European settlers and their crops.

Thing is - its not that difficult to keep under control if young growth is removed before seeding. Do that a few times and the plant exhausts its own reserves and is more likely to die.

Say my name wrote: »

You'll get those tiny inch high toadstools just up to lately.
The white field mushrooms come end of July, August. Especially when dry weather is ended by rain.
There's another white mushroom that came where horses were grazed.

I think there's a link between increased phosphorus application and a decrease in mushrooms. It could be a specific phosphorus.

Mushrooms are simply the fruiting bodies of extensive underground networks of vegetative mycelium - the ghostly underground veins partially seen when turning over areas where they are found growing.

Reseeding or similar will destroy these networks and high levels of fertilisers as well. The more organic matter in a soil profile - the more likley mushrooms will proliferate successfully. That's why mushrooms seem to prefer old horse pasture

Markcheese · 13-11-2020 1:05am

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Nailed it.

Nothing ruins soil biology like artificial N.

I’m not entirely comfortable with the cult or religion that regen has become...one can be an extreme fundamentalist type shouting down glyphosate use (etc) or one can take from it like any ordinary commercial farm that’s just trying to make a sustainable income.
Environment, economics and politics will eventually dictate the direction we take.

When anything becomes cult like it's easy to rub people up the wrong way , and for the fundamentalists to forget what theyre "preaching for "
Farming has always been steered by politics and economics,
If the subsidies go more towards the environmental end , then more farmers will head that way ...( Some very grudgingly) ..
It'll probably need a bit of carrot and stick though , ( ideally education but that's not always easy , especially if you feel preached at )

alps · 13-11-2020 1:34am

Phuq it ....the rugby is on at 6 tomorrow....

That's a hell of a decision...

Waffletraktor · 13-11-2020 8:20am

alps wrote: »

Phuq it ....the rugby is on at 6 tomorrow....

That's a hell of a decision...

7

alps · 13-11-2020 8:23am

Waffletraktor wrote: »

7

Did you get it changed? Cheers Waff...

Waffletraktor · 13-11-2020 8:29am

alps wrote: »

Did you get it changed? Cheers Waff...

https://www.wheresthematch.com/live-rugby-union-on-tv/

Water John · 13-11-2020 8:12pm

Mighty 5 days, €2/speaker ridiculous value. Into wrap up time.

alps · 13-11-2020 8:54pm

It was unbelievable..

Best format of an online conference I've seen.....the full hour for presentation and q&a and none of this milarky of taking q&a after 3 speakers..

In depth discussion on each topic..

Must have been a full degree course in 5 days..

Say my name · 13-11-2020 9:20pm

I didn't get to see it all. I had connection issues.
I think I even got another poster interested in the event..
But the bits I watched this week and with better connection today were excellent.
I follow a bit of this already but as with life there's always more to learn.

Well run event with it looks like all the questions answered and shows as a country we've really innovative farmers taking the bits of regen worldwide and putting it into an Irish context.

Well done NOTS!

Water John · 13-11-2020 10:13pm

alps wrote: »

It was unbelievable..

Best format of an online conference I've seen.....the full hour for presentation and q&a and none of this milarky of taking q&a after 3 speakers..

In depth discussion on each topic..

Must have been a full degree course in 5 days..

Possibly a good idea to run alternate format every second year. Personally I prefer this way, suits me. The online option also allows you to use speakers who cannot or may not be willing to travel. Some speakers are now becoming worried about their carbon footprint. You or I mightn't be over concerned but I respect their opinion.
I absorbed a multiple of what I would at a live event.

endainoz · 13-11-2020 10:22pm

Yeah I really enjoyed it myself, took a few pages of notes anyway. Didn't have a chance to see any of it today, how did today go?

Water John · 13-11-2020 10:28pm

endainoz wrote: »

Yeah I really enjoyed it myself, took a few pages of notes anyway. Didn't have a chance to see any of it today, how did today go?

John Kempf was very interesting.
https://johnkempf.com/#book
Quality Agriculture is the book.
https://johnkempf.com/the-challenges-of-managing-nutrition-with-brix-readings/

The talk on KNF was a general introduction to it, I would go to Chris Trump's youtube, these were put up by a poster on the livestream;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N2PXBKf_GE

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCus0ZO165qzh

13-11-2020 10:49pm

Water John wrote: »

Possibly a good idea to run alternate format every second year. Personally I prefer this way, suits me. The online option also allows you to use speakers who cannot or may not be willing to travel. Some speakers are now becoming worried about their carbon footprint. You or I mightn't be over concerned but I respect their opinion.
I absorbed a multiple of what I would at a live event.

This format suits me as well. Tell you what though, there's a LOT to be learned at breakfast, lunch, dinner, intermission and most important, pints!

alps · 13-11-2020 11:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This format suits me as well. Tell you what though, there's a LOT to be learned at breakfast, lunch, dinner, intermission and most important, pints!

Went to Tullamore 2 years ago and let me tell you, the positive exuberance was infective, and the conversation and stories...it was intoxicating....literally....missed the second day😴🥳🥳

alps · 13-11-2020 11:48pm

Take home

13-11-2020 11:49pm

alps wrote: »

Went to Tullamore 2 years ago and let me tell you, the positive exuberance was infective, and the conversation and stories...it was intoxicating....literally....missed the second day😴🥳🥳

The hardy bucks stayed up until after 4am last year, I was well tucked up in my leaba! I dunno how they gave presentations after that :pac: Breakfast was great craic ribbing those with sore heads and sick stomachs.

Say my name · 14-11-2020 12:55am

Water John wrote: »

Possibly a good idea to run alternate format every second year. Personally I prefer this way, suits me. The online option also allows you to use speakers who cannot or may not be willing to travel. Some speakers are now becoming worried about their carbon footprint. You or I mightn't be over concerned but I respect their opinion.
I absorbed a multiple of what I would at a live event.

What next now?

I suppose Nots have practical workshops and BASE and Danu have their own thing going.

You'd wonder if they'd run out of speakers for next year?
Probably recycle some like Christine Jones last year and this.

Say my name · 14-11-2020 1:27am

alps wrote: »

Take home

I'd say you already have it home..

And you know how to take a brix reading on the next page. :pac:

alps · 14-11-2020 5:28am

Say my name wrote: »

I'd say you already have it home..

And you know how to take a brix reading on the next page. :pac:

Dont have the book...copied that from a twitter page....have to start ordering for Christmas..

15-11-2020 12:42am

Say my name wrote: »

What next now?

I suppose Nots have practical workshops and BASE and Danu have their own thing going.

You'd wonder if they'd run out of speakers for next year?
Probably recycle some like Christine Jones last year and this.

I'd say there are a few new people they could get particularly in this online format. But, to be fair there are only so many big names out there.

I think Sean McGloin mentioned a post covid format of on farm visits, a conference, and the online factor to mix it up a bit.

Water John · 15-11-2020 12:45am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say there are a few new people they could get particularly in this online format. But, to be fair there are only so many big names out there.

I think Sean McGloin mentioned a post covid format of on farm visits, a conference, and the online factor to mix it up a bit.

The goal would be to innoculate it into the mainstream of farming and push also that farmers are paid for sequestering 4/5t carbon per acre per year.

15-11-2020 12:46am

Water John wrote: »

The goal would be to innoculate it into the mainstream of farming and push also that farmers are paid for sequestering 4/5t carbon per acre per year.

It should spread easily, I'd say there aren't many who'd watch or go to a thing like it and not be impressed.

Water John · 15-11-2020 12:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

It should spread easily, I'd say there aren't many who'd watch or go to a thing like it and not be impressed.

Yes, but there are economic interests with a lot of influence for which this message is not in their interest.
It seems there is much hesitancy at EU level too to go the carbon payment route.

Hopefully this thread will continue with anyone coming across any thing, posting it. Thanks Endainoz (OP) for starting it.

Biofarm 2020

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