Biofarm 2020

Say my name · 10-11-2020 9:54pm

Water John wrote: »

So a good FYM has both nitrogen and carbon, you take it and potato pit it and some water as doing so. Does anything else need to be added?
10% soil +....biochar was mentioned.
All the speakers were excellent but esp liked Bruno Folloder, almost a philosopher.

Stone dust was mentioned. And seaweed.
Anything that adds extra minerals.
And height important.

If more of the speakers use pictures to demonstrate, it really shows more.

10-11-2020 9:56pm

Say my name wrote: »

Stone dust was mentioned. And seaweed.
Anything that adds extra minerals.
And height important.

If more of the speakers use pictures to demonstrate, it really shows more.

Basalt was one anyway, the height was 1.5 meters, no higher due to too much pressure.

blue5000 · 11-11-2020 9:28am

Just a bit to add on the soil on the dung, I've found the best place to get it is from under mature trees, lots of fungi etc. there able to break down lignin.

Capercaillie · 11-11-2020 9:53am

blue5000 wrote: »

Just a bit to add on the soil on the dung, I've found the best place to get it is from under mature trees, lots of fungi etc. there able to break down lignin.

benefits of agroforestry.

NcdJd · 11-11-2020 12:12pm

alps wrote: »

Perkins (the market gardener)

Nearly all veg production is based on animal manure....if not it's based on fossil fuels..

Animals drive fertility systems..

Veg production is the least sustainable farm system..

Mostly based on artificial fertiliser. Very little veg production based on animal manure from what I see. A man I know had about 4 acres of celery this year. Spread horse manure over it when ploughed but still spread fertiliser on it before plants were put in.

Commercial veg production is very harsh on soil systems but that's the nature of the beast. Pity the environmentalists wouldn't acknowledge this when preaching to everyone about the so called evils of animal farming.

Say my name · 11-11-2020 1:24pm

NcdJd wrote: »

Mostly based on artificial fertiliser. Very little veg production based on animal manure from what I see. A man I know had about 4 acres of celery this year. Spread horse manure over it when ploughed but still spread fertiliser on it before plants were put in.

Commercial veg production is very harsh on soil systems but that's the nature of the beast. Pity the environmentalists wouldn't acknowledge this when preaching to everyone about the so called evils of animal farming.

I just passed by a potato field on an upward slope from the road.
Absolutely zero water soakage of the soil and half the field washing onto the road with the soil continuing on off the road and into the river.

It made for a very sorry sight.

There needs to be research to stop this. The current situation of taking land for big bucks having bare soil, having the nitrogen and phosphorus wash into the waterways along with the soil and carbon is totally unsustainable.
It's only sustainable for the grower as long as they have access to virgin ground and artificial fertilizer.

We're the only country in the world that doesn't acknowledge the harm bare soil does. In fact we praise and welcome it.

youllbemine · 11-11-2020 1:56pm

Really enjoying this thread folks. Have the Richard Perkins book (pdf version) myself and am an avid follower of his YouTube channel. Another excellent one to follow is Charles Dowding - master of the No Dig method. FYM and cardboard is all that’s needed to grow savage amounts of vegetables.

What I’d like to see in Ireland in 20 years time is thousands of these small producers using similar methods to feed their locality and to hell with the supermarkets.

I live in Mid-Louth and this time of year the roads are destroyed with soil from potato ground. The fields are in tatters and can only imagine the damage being done in the removal of these crops using the machinery.

Keep up the posting on this thread!

Dinzee Conlee · 11-11-2020 1:59pm

Say my name wrote: »

I just passed by a potato field on an upward slope from the road.
Absolutely zero water soakage of the soil and half the field washing onto the road with the soil continuing on off the road and into the river.

It made for a very sorry sight.

There needs to be research to stop this. The current situation of taking land for big bucks having bare soil, having the nitrogen and phosphorus wash into the waterways along with the soil and carbon is totally unsustainable.
It's only sustainable for the grower as long as they have access to virgin ground and artificial fertilizer.

We're the only country in the world that doesn't acknowledge the harm bare soil does. In fact we praise and welcome it.

What do they do in other countries with ground after cereals/crops have been harvested?
I think I saw plenty bare stubble ground in England one time when I was over there in the Autumn - but that was a good few years ago now, so maybe its changed?

wrangler · 11-11-2020 2:04pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

What do they do in other countries with ground after cereals/crops have been harvested?
I think I saw plenty bare stubble ground in England one time when I was over there in the Autumn - but that was a good few years ago now, so maybe its changed?

I wouldn't be surprised if they go back to the old ways when they get away from the EU rules and regulations

NcdJd · 11-11-2020 2:10pm

Say my name wrote: »

I just passed by a potato field on an upward slope from the road.
Absolutely zero water soakage of the soil and half the field washing onto the road with the soil continuing on off the road and into the river.

It made for a very sorry sight.

There needs to be research to stop this. The current situation of taking land for big bucks having bare soil, having the nitrogen and phosphorus wash into the waterways along with the soil and carbon is totally unsustainable.
It's only sustainable for the grower as long as they have access to virgin ground and artificial fertilizer.

We're the only country in the world that doesn't acknowledge the harm bare soil does. In fact we praise and welcome it.

Spuds are still being harvested. The ground has to be clean for the harvester to operate properly. Unless you want to do without spuds in your diet that's the only way they can be taken up. Ground being bare is unavoidable when using a harvester to left spuds and other root groups. There has to be a certain amount of it unfortunately say my name. If you were lifting root crops by hand which is what we done then you would still have cover, with the exception of spuds obviously.

But due to pricing it's not financially sustainable to do this now except if your a small 4 to 5 acre organic enterprise selling online or through a farmers market. I see some of these places say they can make big money per acre, but i still question how much is profit out of their big turnover. Most people get their veg in a supermarket now. Most of the veg supplied years ago was through market gardening around North County Dublin but this is all now history unfortunately. Outlets are not there anymore other than direct to supermarkets or via a couple of large vegetable distribution companies. They don't want to be dealing with hundreds of small vegatable farmers like they did years ago.

From what little I know about science and I'm just looking at the differences with the pair of eyes I have, increased plant production to replace animal production to me will have devastating consequences for biodiversity and the soil on our planet. There has to be a balance between animal and plant based production. The two should work hand in hand. What is the land use required for the same amount of protein of a herd of 20 cattle compared to the plant based equivalent ? I may be a bit of a thick but what I see just doesn't add up.

Anyway I dont want to derail this thread, sounds like ye are learning loads

Say my name · 11-11-2020 2:19pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

What do they do in other countries with ground after cereals/crops have been harvested?
I think I saw plenty bare stubble ground in England one time when I was over there in the Autumn - but that was a good few years ago now, so maybe its changed?

They've acknowledged it in the press and with their epa's anyway.
In the U.S. in parts it's mandatory to have cover crops over soil to stop pollution of waterways.

I know in this county there's been spraying off of stubbles weeks ago, grass farms of 100 acres bought with 5 acre fields all levelled into one recently and straight into tillage.
I'm not going to throw stones to bring it on myself but any thought in environmentalism and soil health really does come very far down the list with pursuit of the mighty Euro at the head for the majority if not all.
We can't all be just thinking of ourselves and our financial prestige and to hell with everything else.

Say my name · 11-11-2020 2:32pm

NcdJd wrote: »

Spuds are still being harvested. The ground has to be clean for the harvester to operate properly. Unless you want to do without spuds in your diet that's the only way they can be taken up. Ground being bare is unavoidable when using a harvester to left spuds and other root groups. There has to be a certain amount of it unfortunately say my name. If you were lifting root crops by hand which is what we done then you would still have cover, with the exception of spuds obviously.

But due to pricing it's not financially sustainable to do this now except if your a small 4 to 5 acre organic enterprise selling online or through a farmers market. I see some of these places say they can make big money per acre, but i still question how much is profit out of their big turnover. Most people get their veg in a supermarket now. Most of the veg supplied years ago was through market gardening around North County Dublin but this is all now history unfortunately. Outlets are not there anymore other than direct to supermarkets or via a couple of large vegetable distribution companies. They don't want to be dealing with hundreds of small vegatable farmers like they did years ago.

From what little I know about science and I'm just looking at the differences with the pair of eyes I have, increased plant production to replace animal production to me will have devastating consequences for biodiversity and the soil on our planet. There has to be a balance between animal and plant based production. The two should work hand in hand. What is the land use required for the same amount of protein of a herd of 20 cattle compared to the plant based equivalent ? I may be a bit of a thick but what I see just doesn't add up.

Anyway I dont want to derail this thread, sounds like ye are learning loads

Jason Mauck is worth a follow on Twitter.
A real innovative farmer developing strip tillage, bringing back some livestock to the system and using biochar at sowing.

300 hp tractors spining around in fields of muck won't be tolerated in the future.

It'll take a few farmers to show a different way first before legislation rules it out.

alps · 11-11-2020 2:39pm

The gap to the road is on the low point of the field normally for these crop extraction purposes. It creates ruts direct to the road for all runoff..

Could they not have the exit slightly higher up and at least use the boundaries to "bund" the runoff..?

Waffletraktor · 11-11-2020 3:04pm

Out in the real world does bio farming keep the 1/3 of annual rainfall during the last 7 weeks away to help drilling and getting crops going as well? Asking for a mate...

NcdJd · 11-11-2020 3:18pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Out in the real world does bio farming keep the 1/3 of annual rainfall during the last 7 weeks away to help drilling and getting crops going as well? Asking for a mate...

You'll have a field of ducks in that soon ha.

Birdnuts · 11-11-2020 5:13pm

Say my name wrote: »

They've acknowledged it in the press and with their epa's anyway.
In the U.S. in parts it's mandatory to have cover crops over soil to stop pollution of waterways.

I know in this county there's been spraying off of stubbles weeks ago, grass farms of 100 acres bought with 5 acre fields all levelled into one recently and straight into tillage.
I'm not going to throw stones to bring it on myself but any thought in environmentalism and soil health really does come very far down the list with pursuit of the mighty Euro at the head for the majority if not all.
We can't all be just thinking of ourselves and our financial prestige and to hell with everything else.

Do you reckon Spring tillage is better than winter crops in that regard?? What i mean is it better to leave stubbles unploughed and green over the winter till the spring sowing season?? I'm interested in this area for a good while cos data from the likes of the BTO have shown the change over from Spring crops to winter crops starting in the 1970s led to a big decline in farmland birds like Skylarks that depended on foraging on the green stubbles to get them through the winter.

Waffletraktor · 11-11-2020 6:03pm

NcdJd wrote: »

You'll have a field of ducks in that soon ha.

This sort of heavy land can't take the 400mm+ we've had since end of July (yearly average is 750mm). Road and field side drains are full, no where for land drains to send the water. Have had the mini digger out for the last 2 weeks cutting channels to get rid of surface water off fields. On the heavy (man's) land we've spent what's needed for drainage that can take our normal weather, with less rainfal the sheer volume of natural drainage channels of brooks/streams/rivers doesnt exist like it would in ireland.

The weather for the last 15 months has done the exact opposite of what's needed for growing crops.

Say my name · 11-11-2020 6:07pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

Do you reckon Spring tillage is better than winter crops in that regard?? What i mean is it better to leave stubbles unploughed and green over the winter till the spring sowing season?? I'm interested in this area for a good while cos data from the likes of the BTO have shown the change over from Spring crops to winter crops starting in the 1970s led to a big decline in farmland birds like Skylarks that depended on foraging on the green stubbles to get them through the winter.

Not really. There's places around have stubbles sprayed off two and three weeks ago for spring crops and others have them even ploughed already for the spring.
Saying that there's others have winter crops sown on spring tillage ground. Some will graze with a ruminant others will give it for the worms.
It's a whole mindset that needs to change.
The larger acreages of the farmers left now and so little time to get through it doesn't help. That and everyone loves the tractor seat.

Passed by a maize field as well today and same as well as the potato field. All the soil being washed out the field gap.
And this field even had the grass margin left around the field.

Any of the fields with green cover are not letting the same water out onto the roads and they're holding onto their soil.

To answer your question yes it's better to leave your field green and unploughed over winter. Keep your soil in the field.

Dinzee Conlee · 11-11-2020 6:13pm

Say my name wrote: »

Not really. There's places around have stubbles sprayed off two and three weeks ago for spring crops and others have them even ploughed already for the spring.
Saying that there's others have winter crops sown on spring tillage ground. Some will graze with a ruminant others will give it for the worms.
It's a whole mindset that needs to change.
The larger acreages of the farmers left now and so little time to get through it doesn't help. That and everyone loves the tractor seat.

Passed by a maize field as well today and same as well as the potato field. All the soil being washed out the field gap.
And this field even had the grass margin left around the field.

Any of the fields with green cover are not letting the same water out onto the roads and they're holding onto their soil.

To answer your question yes it's better to leave your field green and unploughed over winter. Keep your soil in the field.

I thought you weren't allowed plough land for spring sowing until sometime in the new year?

Cover crops after maize would be almost impossible would they - given its harvested so late?

11-11-2020 6:14pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Out in the real world does bio farming keep the 1/3 of annual rainfall during the last 7 weeks away to help drilling and getting crops going as well? Asking for a mate...

Your mate could've asked Gabe Brown that, water infiltration would be part of the answer and................

five principles of soil health: no-till or minimal tillage, keeping the ground covered, diversity in plant and animal species, keeping living roots in the soil as much as possible, and the importance of integrating animals.

Say my name · 11-11-2020 6:17pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I thought you weren't allowed plough land for spring sowing until sometime in the new year?

Cover crops after maize would be almost impossible would they - given its harvested so late?

Posters on here putting in grazing crops between maize crops.

You're allowed plough from 1st Dec.

endainoz · 11-11-2020 6:25pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Out in the real world does bio farming keep the 1/3 of annual rainfall during the last 7 weeks away to help drilling and getting crops going as well? Asking for a mate...

Jim Cronin showed a field very similar yesterday and showed how it could be done. I missed the very end of it as had jobs to do but he brought the land back very well.

endainoz · 11-11-2020 6:32pm

So what changes have people here decided to do based on ideas discussed here or ones what were already in the head?

I'm definitely pushing on with lots of hedge planting this winter.

I also want to look into adding some diversity to the paddocks and Meadows. It would be overseeing though as opposed to a full reseed. I think I have a reasonable amount of diversity already but like to add some more herbal type plants.

I have been wondering about the idea of a relatively cheap seeding option to graze a field down low and to run a chain harrow over it, followed by broadcasting seed possibly mixed with grab lime and then a quick roll after.

I might not be as efficient as a power harrow but soil disturbance would be minimal. Any thoughts?

NcdJd · 11-11-2020 6:48pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

This sort of heavy land can't take the 400mm+ we've had since end of July (yearly average is 750mm). Road and field side drains are full, no where for land drains to send the water. Have had the mini digger out for the last 2 weeks cutting channels to get rid of surface water off fields. On the heavy (man's) land we've spent what's needed for drainage that can take our normal weather, with less rainfal the sheer volume of natural drainage channels of brooks/streams/rivers doesnt exist like it would in ireland.

The weather for the last 15 months has done the exact opposite of what's needed for growing crops.

Did you get to finish sowing your winter crop ? Man here has given up now till spring. You couldn't see the top of the power harrow on his sower it was covered in so much muck on it.

Lady Haywire · 11-11-2020 6:49pm

Loved Gabe today, thought he was very interesting & had novel approach.
The one I really wanted to watch- Klaus, I've missed the majority of as the quad broke down when out feeding two cows :mad: Will have to watch back.

Just with trees, this is a great initiative done very year- https://www.treesontheland.com/plant-trees-2021

Interesting about the artichokes.

Waffletraktor · 11-11-2020 6:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Your mate could've asked Gabe Brown that, water infiltration would be part of the answer and................

five principles of soil health: no-till or minimal tillage, keeping the ground covered, diversity in plant and animal species, keeping living roots in the soil as much as possible, and the importance of integrating animals.

Our lighter ground has been no-til with controlled traffic for a number of years and isn't a problem. Any idiot can farm easy ground. We spread as much as can be got of compost/dung/sludge annually. Generally have cover crops in fields within 5 days after the combine and straw cleared for grazing sheep on over winter stubbles on stuff going spring, discs for stale seed beds to deal with blackgrass. We tried doing so with catlle but they just made too much mess for what we want.
Our heavy land has an average of £1,800 acre spent on drainage, has grass in it's rotation where the grazier can run cattle+sheep. We smash it when it's dry and leave it rough to weather down, it's the kind of ground you plough and come back in a month to combi-drill in ireland speak. It gets rotationally moleploughed, quasi controlled traffic and cover cropped for spring. In winter it becomes non self structuring clay gooo that too walk on is like wearing snow shoes and if it bakes, opens cracks your leg could disappear down in summer. These cracks are no use as it just forms vertically into pillars and not horizontally to bust compaction. To subsoil this just leaves clods the size of bales of turf with soil you would struggle to work to powder with a sledgehammer and an hours free time, tilt is long gone out the window.
Don't come at me with preachy wishy washy nonsense without real world experience of what to do to put it in practice please , magic bullets don't exist.

Waffletraktor · 11-11-2020 7:10pm

NcdJd wrote: »

Did you get to finish sowing your winter crop ? Man here has given up now till spring. You couldn't see the top of the power harrow on his sower it was covered in so much muck on it.

We went too early and got most of it in, we need 8-9 days but just got beaten by weather. That image was after a kv ts evo on a 7530 with 900's on the back on a wet headland. Was a lovelly seed bed(beans) until the tap in the sky was left going.

11-11-2020 7:17pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Don't come at me with preachy wishy washy nonsense without real world experience of what to do to put it in practice please , magic bullets don't exist.

As Henry Ford said, whether you think you can or cannot, you're right.

You're not Gabe Browns neighbour are you?

Say my name · 11-11-2020 7:29pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As Henry Ford said, whether you think you can or cannot, you're right.

You're not Gabe Browns neighbour are you?

What do you make of it so far today?

11-11-2020 7:32pm

Say my name wrote: »

What do you make of it so far today?

Loving Nicole Masters. Have heard GB's presentation a few times. I was expecting less of the technical HM spiel from Christopher Cook and more actual on farm stuff tbh.

Gawddawggonnit · 11-11-2020 7:36pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Our lighter ground has been no-til with controlled traffic for a number of years and isn't a problem. Any idiot can farm easy ground. We spread as much as can be got of compost/dung/sludge annually. Generally have cover crops in fields within 5 days after the combine and straw cleared for grazing sheep on over winter stubbles on stuff going spring, discs for stale seed beds to deal with blackgrass. We tried doing so with catlle but they just made too much mess for what we want.
Our heavy land has an average of £1,800 acre spent on drainage, has grass in it's rotation where the grazier can run cattle+sheep. We smash it when it's dry and leave it rough to weather down, it's the kind of ground you plough and come back in a month to combi-drill in ireland speak. It gets rotationally moleploughed, quasi controlled traffic and cover cropped for spring. In winter it becomes non self structuring clay gooo that too walk on is like wearing snow shoes and if it bakes, opens cracks your leg could disappear down in summer. These cracks are no use as it just forms vertically into pillars and not horizontally to bust compaction. To subsoil this just leaves clods the size of bales of turf with soil you would struggle to work to powder with a sledgehammer and an hours free time, tilt is long gone out the window.
Don't come at me with preachy wishy washy nonsense without real world experience of what to do to put it in practice please , magic bullets don't exist.

+1.
Easy for lads to wax lyrical about soil conservation (etc) when on boys ground and a dry climate.
We have been soil farming here for over a decade. Last Autumn/Winter all that was forgotten about, ploughs tackled on 900s fitted on tractors, and mauled in the crops.

I can see that the posters here are taken by the novelty of soil conservation but there are many more things that can be put in place that are equally (or more) important than DD, CC, CTF etc.

Waffletraktor · 11-11-2020 7:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As Henry Ford said, whether you think you can or cannot, you're right.

You're not Gabe Browns neighbour are you?

I don't think you have any institutional knowledge to even understand half of what i told you, do you. We've been doing your spiel for years, it doesn't always work.

Waffletraktor · 11-11-2020 7:41pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

+1.
Easy for lads to wax lyrical about soil conservation (etc) when on boys ground and a dry climate.
We have been soil farming here for over a decade. Last Autumn/Winter all that was forgotten about, ploughs tackled on 900s fitted on tractors, and mauled in the crops.

I can see that the posters here are taken by the novelty of soil conservation but there are many more things that can be put in place that are equally (or more) important than DD, CC, CTF etc.

Get me 30,000 tons of shyte a year and a few million tons of sand and we'd have a farm worthy of getting people to come and wax lyrically about.

Say my name · 11-11-2020 7:44pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I don't think you have any institutional knowledge to even understand half of what i told you, do you. We've been doing your spiel for years, it doesn't always work.

Ah jasus.

Sign up to feck to watch the speakers.
Gwan you know you want to.
John Kempf on the Friday and John Geraghty on finding biological ways to beat flooding should be worth it alone.

Gawddawggonnit · 11-11-2020 7:51pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Get me 30,000 tons of shyte a year and a few million tons of sand and we'd have a farm worthy of getting people to come and wax lyrically about.

Yep.
I’ve completely changed my thinking on tillage.
I think the most sustainable way are mixed farming enterprises. We have between 3-5000t of fym plus duck shyte and poultry litter to apply every year. We honestly couldn’t manage without it. Land that was only 5yrs in DD, no-till, CC etc that was ploughed last Autumn had about 5-6 inches of pure black soil on top. You could see it plainly in the furrow wall.

NcdJd · 11-11-2020 7:57pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Yep.
I’ve completely changed my thinking on tillage.
I think the most sustainable way are mixed farming enterprises. We have between 3-5000t of fym plus duck shyte and poultry litter to apply every year. We honestly couldn’t manage without it. Land that was only 5yrs in DD, no-till, CC etc that was ploughed last Autumn had about 5-6 inches of pure black soil on top. You could see it plainly in the furrow wall.

Black gold.

Waffletraktor · 11-11-2020 9:10pm

Say my name wrote: »

Ah jasus.

Sign up to feck to watch the speakers.
Gwan you know you want to.
John Kempf on the Friday and John Geraghty on finding biological ways to beat flooding should be worth it alone.

It's so abnormally wet, we got the mower stuck last week. It'd usually go anywhere!!

Say my name · 11-11-2020 9:20pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

It's so abnormally wet, we got the mower stuck last week. It'd usually go anywhere!!

Ah ffs!!

Recreational fossil fuel usage.

* There's either winter with northerlies or high pressure arriving on the 20th.

Water John · 11-11-2020 9:50pm

endainoz wrote: »

So what changes have people here decided to do based on ideas discussed here or ones what were already in the head?

I'm definitely pushing on with lots of hedge planting this winter.

I also want to look into adding some diversity to the paddocks and Meadows. It would be overseeing though as opposed to a full reseed. I think I have a reasonable amount of diversity already but like to add some more herbal type plants.

I have been wondering about the idea of a relatively cheap seeding option to graze a field down low and to run a chain harrow over it, followed by broadcasting seed possibly mixed with grab lime and then a quick roll after.

I might not be as efficient as a power harrow but soil disturbance would be minimal. Any thoughts?

Have a dairying neighbour, would have been simply inproving/reseeding. He ran a leveller over it about fives times, scattered seed and rolled it and it did fine. He didn't want to kill all the old grass, just stunt it and raise a bit of red for the new seed.

wrangler · 11-11-2020 10:20pm

endainoz wrote: »

So what changes have people here decided to do based on ideas discussed here or ones what were already in the head?

I'm definitely pushing on with lots of hedge planting this winter.

I also want to look into adding some diversity to the paddocks and Meadows. It would be overseeing though as opposed to a full reseed. I think I have a reasonable amount of diversity already but like to add some more herbal type plants.

I have been wondering about the idea of a relatively cheap seeding option to graze a field down low and to run a chain harrow over it, followed by broadcasting seed possibly mixed with grab lime and then a quick roll after.

I might not be as efficient as a power harrow but soil disturbance would be minimal. Any thoughts?

I don't think Granlime at time of sowing is available quick enough to neutralise the ph of the rotting material that's affecting germination. I believe it should be spread 3wks before sowing, It has to breakdown and spread through the soil before it's available to the seed, where as if you put 1ton/acre of ground lime, it leaves a lot of lime in the top couple inches immediately and available to neutralise the debris.
I often saw grains of granlime n the field a month after spreading, That's no help to breaking down the debris, maybe I'm buying rubbish granlime

Water John · 11-11-2020 10:24pm

Is that with spraying off Wrangler, creating the dead grass?
One of yesterdays speakers also mentioned a bag of Granlime/acre each year to balance the shock of N from Urea.

wrangler · 11-11-2020 10:37pm

Water John wrote: »

Is that with spraying off Wrangler, creating the dead grass?
One of yesterdays speakers also mentioned a bag of Granlime/acre each year to balance the shock of N from Urea.

Both really, even with the sheep there's a fair bit of debris pulled up with the harrow.
Grass grows very thick and fast here so it's difficult to stitch in without spraying. last reseed here we sprayed and spread granlime the same time but didn't sow the grass seed for nearly a month and found it the best result so far. The reekie type harrow did the best job too as the sprayed grass was so rotten, harrow it too early and it's a pain in the arse with the debris clogging the tines and lifting it out of the ground.
The harrow isn't all it's made out to be for stitching in grass, lower fertility and thinner swards might be alright

Water John · 11-11-2020 10:43pm

With the leveller the neighbour pulled a lot of the debris to the headland, I think.
See your point on the harrow.

endainoz · 12-11-2020 3:34pm

I was speaking to a guy with western seeds about their organic seed mixes and they said it may be possible to overseed after chain harrowing and chain harrow once more followed by a quick roll. It does sound like quite a few passes on the field in a short time.

But if it worked the field would not need to be touched for a couple of years again.

12-11-2020 3:58pm

Today should be interesting...

endainoz · 12-11-2020 5:10pm

Dr. Christine Jones was excellent once again. The point of multispecies swards has really been reinforced for me this week.

They could work perfectly fine in a conventional system yet the next drought you can guarantee these threads will be have people giving out that their ryegrass crop isn't growing.

Say my name · 12-11-2020 5:23pm

endainoz wrote: »

Dr. Christine Jones was excellent once again. The point of multispecies swards has really been reinforced for me this week.

They could work perfectly fine in a conventional system yet the next drought you can guarantee these threads will be have people giving out that their ryegrass crop isn't growing.

She goes a bit too far though on her attacks on ryegrass that she goes out of her dept.
A talk to that new zealand fella kiwi Pete on thefarmingforum might be in order.

endainoz · 12-11-2020 5:37pm

Say my name wrote: »

She goes a bit too far though on her attacks on ryegrass that she goes out of her dept.
A talk to that new zealand fella kiwi Pete on thefarmingforum might be in order.

Kiwi Pete sounds like a big scary Maori

Say my name · 12-11-2020 5:49pm

endainoz wrote: »

Kiwi Pete sounds like a big scary Maori

Never judge a book by it's cover.

I'm on ryegrass here. I've dropped mineral supplements. Reduced nitrogen and cut it out for the summer months.
Can see a benefit from char in slurry.
Have zero issue with cleanout. Have reduced dosing year on year. And the vet would hardly grace the yard in the year.

I could be the odd one out though on all those terrible ryegrass farmers.

*Looks for the large lump of timber to touch.

Water John · 12-11-2020 6:01pm

Yeah some of the ground I have moved to organic is a ryegrass silage sward, probably three species. Has done better than I thought. Now it needs more species esp know its prone to poaching and grew a great crop of dandelions this year.

Biofarm 2020

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