School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

Bobtheman · 03-07-2020 6:36pm

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

What did she do?

The first rule of politics is get re elected

Bobtheman · 03-07-2020 6:41pm

I would not get bogged down in the current " plan" which is unrealistic in many respects. Dreamt up by officials who rarely visit schools. Kids stay in rooms ! Secondary. That will lead to more hassle than it's worth .
There will be negotiation. There are a lot of teachers with underlying symptoms who would not feel safe returning with the plan as is.
A bigger budget for cleaning and more money for lowering class sizes on a temp basis is to my mind minimum requirements.
Plus teachers need more flexible sick leave. If I'm feeling like I have covid should I have to pay 60 euro to see a doctor because of limits on uncertified days!
That could delay a lot of teachers staying away

Dublingirl80 · 03-07-2020 6:58pm

The aggression in these posts is unbelievable. Actually sad how much disrespect people have for the people they send their children into everyday.

Bobtheman · 03-07-2020 7:10pm

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I thought the same! Stange to be so public about it, even if it happened to be the only school approved today for finding independently of it being in her back garden.........

It does lend credence to the West's annoyance at the lack of ministers....it shouldn't matter, minister should not engage in parish pump politics but tweets like this certainly don't bolster that idea

One thing that Quinn did right was to remove political interference from school building projects. It probably left office with him.This improvement was obviously in the pipes before she took office. But it didn't help the larger picture.
Outside of Dublin this nonsense seems to get press. In the end funding should permentally be removed from politicians. School building. And a ban on photo ops.

r93kaey5p2izun · 03-07-2020 7:12pm

noddy69 wrote: »

My concern is education of children not "childcare".

But then you're well aware of the shortage of teachers and crisis in teacher recruitment and retention, particularly in Leinster. Where will these people who can teach come from? I assumed you were most concerned with childcare when you were happy to furlough teachers and replace them with non teachers (since replacement teachers are not available in most cases), rather than see the government engage with teacher representatives to ensure funding for safe reopening.

spurious · 03-07-2020 7:12pm

Troll posts against the forum charter will be deleted along with responses to them.

Go elsewhere to whinge about teachers. Not here.

Bobtheman · 03-07-2020 7:15pm

A lot of parents spent time with their darlings and though they be loath to see them go -are anxious for their education to resume. Nothing to do with how difficult their kids can be or high childcare costs. Perish the thought.

Bobtheman · 03-07-2020 7:17pm

No strings attached? What work place is now no strings attached??

spurious · 03-07-2020 7:18pm

Thanks to those who reported the posts against the charter.
Trolls, jog on, or be given a holiday from the forum.

shesty · 04-07-2020 8:53am

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I think the very big issue here is kids with temp being kept at home. Lot of parents just simply won't follow that. We had a bad dose running through the school in November. 1/4 of the school home sick. But there were still 20 or so kids who were as sick as dogs, coughing, splurting and with temps, yet their parents felt it best to send them to school to spread to us and other students

I am at the parental end of that issue actually - work were discussing how to get us back in and possibility of temperature taking (ruled out).But I did point out to my manager that if the kids are sick, previously my minder had taken them assuming they weren't very sick obviously), and I would have gone to work myself anyway.But really if we were doing it properly, a child with a temperature means I should really be staying out of the workplace too, doesn't it??Working from home or whatever.

The whole thing is a minefield.

km79 · 04-07-2020 9:17am

http://twitter.com/CatrionaGolden/status/1279189957949755393

Just in case there was any doubt .

http://twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1278813714788102144

http://twitter.com/PMernagh/status/1279196018849054721

khalessi · 04-07-2020 9:53am

km79 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/CatrionaGolden/status/1279189957949755393

Just in case there was any doubt .

http://twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1278813714788102144

http://twitter.com/PMernagh/status/1279196018849054721

Ciara Kelly funny onion
"There can be no protected group when everyone else pulling their weight."

Did she fail to notice they are pulling it while using protective measures that teachers are wqually entilted to, wassock.

Bobtheman · 04-07-2020 11:20am

km79 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/CatrionaGolden/status/1279189957949755393

Just in case there was any doubt .

http://twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1278813714788102144

http://twitter.com/PMernagh/status/1279196018849054721

I'd be very wary of engaging in Twitter. It's a cess pit. You might win one battle only for another to pop up - weed like . There is a long way to go before this is all sorted. Lots of negotiation.
I have a friend who works with 30 others in a state owned enterprise. One average size room. No 2m or 1m possible. Should that be going on- no . Guards walking in and out of pubs ? Is that going to work ? No. Lots of other situations to sort out
Let the media battle to the highly paid union officials. A long time ago I was told out away your newspaper when a dispute arises. Teachers get caught up in arse hole media types pontificating. Disputes are about pissing the public off or your employer until you get what's fair .
In this case we want proper protection that still leaves schools workable. We won't get absolute protection but we will get something. Just enjoy the summer and leave it to the unions.
If you met a hostile just agree with them and leave them off. Arse holes on Twitter or your irascible neighbor or relative will have little real influence to how this is sorted.

Bobtheman · 04-07-2020 11:34am

km79 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/CatrionaGolden/status/1279189957949755393

Just in case there was any doubt .

http://twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1278813714788102144

http://twitter.com/PMernagh/status/1279196018849054721

I'd be very wary of engaging in Twitter. It's a cess pit. You might win one battle only for another to pop up - weed like . There is a long way to go before this is all sorted. Lots of negotiation.
I have a friend who works with 30 others in a state owned enterprise. One average size room. No 2m or 1m possible. Should that be going on- no . Guards walking in and out of pubs ? Is that going to work ? No. Lots of other situations to sort out
Let the media battle to the highly paid union officials. A long time ago I was told out away your newspaper when a dispute arises. Teachers get caught up in arse hole media types pontificating. Disputes are about pissing the public off or your employer until you get what's fair .
In this case we want proper protection that still leaves schools workable. We won't get absolute protection but we will get something. Just enjoy the summer and leave it to the unions.
If you met a hostile just agree with them and leave them off. Arse holes on Twitter or your irascible neighbor or relative will have little real influence to how this is sorted.

Parents are entitled to their concerns but don't expect them to see if from your point of view. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing- it wastes your time and irrates the pig and no I'm not saying parents are pigs

Rosita · 04-07-2020 3:52pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

One thing that Quinn did right was to remove political interference from school building projects. It probably left office with him.This improvement was obviously in the pipes before she took office. But it didn't help the larger picture.
Outside of Dublin this nonsense seems to get press. In the end funding should permentally be removed from politicians. School building. And a ban on photo ops.

Outside of Dublin it gets press but in Dublin it still goes on. Leo Varadker sent a flyer around his constituency just a week before the government was announced explaining how he was going to be Tánaiste in the new set up but that funding for the school projects he had previously promised would not be affected.

km79 · 08-07-2020 10:39am

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0708/1151950-school-reopening-analysis/

Nice to see a bit of balance

Random sample · 08-07-2020 10:50am

km79 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0708/1151950-school-reopening-analysis/

Nice to see a bit of balance

It is. The media have played such a huge part in all of this. People listen to sound bites, they don’t want the full story. It’s such a pity the media always go for the most negative sound bite they can find.

Rosita · 08-07-2020 6:14pm

Yeah, this is a timely antidote to the strange comments of Brenda Power and Jennifer O'Connell in the last week who don't seem to have an iota about the practical aspects of organising a school.

Bobtheman · 08-07-2020 9:06pm

Rosita wrote: »

Yeah, this is a timely antidote to the strange comments of Brenda Power and Jennifer O'Connell in the last week who don't seem to have an iota about the practical aspects of organising a school.

We all got to remember that newspapers must be filled even when there is **** all news. Personal opinion columns are usually simplistic drivel. Your best bet is not to read them as they are not that influential. Teachers in general blow their influence out of proportion. Real negotiations take place between unions and the government. A process that will take weeks. I doubt any of these parties will say we must change tact because x ego journalist has said we should.
Education chronically under funded. Various high profile journalists bleating about it for decades . Results sweet **** all .

History Queen · 10-07-2020 8:01am

Be interesting to see just how adequate the funding is but at least it is a move in the right direction.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/major-funding-package-planned-to-help-schools-reopen-as-fully-as-possible-1.4300658?mode=amp

r93kaey5p2izun · 10-07-2020 12:46pm

I was wondering about schools which are dual post primary and FE centres. Should they consider suspending FE provision to prioritise space for post primary? This would of course be controversial and have a lot of serious consequences. Teachers employed in just FE, funding coming from FE, the education of those enrolled in FE - all would be an issue. But, should it be on the table as a measure that could seriously ease the pressure on these schools in terms of freeing up space, reducing crowds, freeing up facilities? Should pp education be prioritised over FE where they are competing for space and facilities?

I taught in a dual provision school. (I still officially teach an evening module in such a school, though am likely to give notice on that anyway). I absolutely understand the massive implications of such a decision and I'm really not sure whether I would agree it's fair or reasonable. But on the other hand, from the point of view of doing everything possible to reopen schools for the benefit of children and also to allow their parents a better chance of returning fully to work successfully, it seems like an important one to at least consider.

deiseindublin · 10-07-2020 2:52pm

I'm in a dual provision school and would be totally against a suspension of FE. Lots of those students didn't get a fair crack of the whip first time round, would be a horrendous blow if they were sidelined now again, not to talk of FE teachers without contracts etc.

Even hearing it has a proposal makes me nervous.

r93kaey5p2izun · 10-07-2020 3:28pm

Yes, I agree re the serious negative impact it would have on FE students. As I said, I understand the huge implications it would have and I would have major concerns about it. But I have heard it being discussed by parents around me, whose children attend such a school. They are kind of expecting that FE will be cancelled to prioritise post primary. They are talking about freeing up space, but also about the additional risk of 200-300 adults in the building, in terms of their role in virus transmission. Many of these parents are graduates of this FE centre themselves, and in fact a couple who have spoken about it would be attending in Sept in normal circumstances.

I think FE should go ahead if at all possible. But if it's a case of only partial attendance being possible for pp (hopefully not) then I think suspension of FE provision or making FE online learning (as difficult and unworkable as that would be in many cases) would have to be seriously considered.

Mardy Bum · 10-07-2020 3:57pm

Simeon Mysterious Minibike wrote: »

Yes, I agree re the serious negative impact it would have on FE students. As I said, I understand the huge implications it would have and I would have major concerns about it. But I have heard it being discussed by parents around me, whose children attend such a school. They are kind of expecting that FE will be cancelled to prioritise post primary. They are talking about freeing up space, but also about the additional risk of 200-300 adults in the building, in terms of their role in virus transmission. Many of these parents are graduates of this FE centre themselves, and in fact a couple who have spoken about it would be attending in Sept in normal circumstances.

I think FE should go ahead if at all possible. But if it's a case of only partial attendance being possible for pp (hopefully not) then I think suspension of FE provision or making FE online learning (as difficult and unworkable as that would be in many cases) would have to be seriously considered.

Unless we reenter lockdown by late August, the most likely scenario will be all staff and students returning to schools as normal as a result of new guidelines which will make it permissable.

r93kaey5p2izun · 10-07-2020 4:02pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Unless we reenter lockdown by late August, the most likely scenario will be all staff and students returning to schools as normal as a result of new guidelines which will make it permissable.

Yes, I'm aware of that. And that will hopefully mean everyone inc FE students can attend classes. But from what I'm hearing, parents of students attending dual provision schools will still be voicing serious concerns about the increased risks of having 200-300 adults in the building. I think such schools are going to be dealing with a lot of complaints and concerns. And I suppose in fairness to them, it is true that a dual provision school may be a higher risk in terms of a cluster developing.

rainbowtrout · 10-07-2020 4:48pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

I'm in a dual provision school and would be totally against a suspension of FE. Lots of those students didn't get a fair crack of the whip first time round, would be a horrendous blow if they were sidelined now again, not to talk of FE teachers without contracts etc.

Even hearing it has a proposal makes me nervous.

I’d agree. We used to have PLC and the majority of ours would have come from disadvantaged backgrounds/ struggled at school etc. It would cut off the only route to college for many.

I can’t see how it would be fair to ditch FE students to space out second level students. Some schools that don’t have FE would still be bigger than those that do.

r93kaey5p2izun · 10-07-2020 5:15pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I’d agree. We used to have PLC and the majority of ours would have come from disadvantaged backgrounds/ struggled at school etc. It would cut off the only route to college for many.

I can’t see how it would be fair to ditch FE students to space out second level students. Some schools that don’t have FE would still be bigger than those that do.

While I hope all students will be able to attend class fully, I think it would be viewed very badly if a school sent any pp students home while FE students remained on site, if that situation were to arise which it hopefully won't.

I do think it needs to be acknowledged and carefully planned for though, that the presence of adult students poses a higher risk. Not just about spacing, but in terms of their risk profile for illness and transmission among these students and the knock on increased risks to the pp teachers too. And if there is flexibility on safety measures for children in order to allow schools operate, that is unlikely to apply to FE students. I don't see adult ed in any form (FE, universities, colleges etc) being let off with no distancing, and no masks as schools will. These schools have much more work to do in terms of logistics of safe reopening for both cohorts. I hope the school managers are taking that seriously and making representation for specific guidelines and resources to make it happen. Because if it goes wrong and FE students are the source of a cluster that closes a pp school, then parents will inevitably be angry.

Bobtheman · 10-07-2020 5:19pm

Excuse my Ignorance but what are FE students ?

KaneToad · 10-07-2020 5:21pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Excuse my Ignorance but what are FE students ?

Further Education?

r93kaey5p2izun · 10-07-2020 5:21pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Excuse my Ignorance but what are FE students ?

Further Education.

School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

Comments