My â‚¬100m BEAM scheme

whelan2 · 03-09-2019 5:24pm

Base price wrote: »

No, if you already in a environmental scheme like GLAS you are covered, if not you have to commit to sign up to BB before the 1/12/19

We are in the bdgp does that count?

wrangler · 03-09-2019 5:32pm

OnDtown wrote: »

Ironically I think he is exactly the farmer that was targetted by this scheme, he could have claimed 2-3 times the max amount if it wasn't capped at 100 cattle, and trust me he definately has lost alot of money on beef!

But between his state/private pensions + BPS/ANC payments, this will push him into the higher tax bracket.
Off the top of my head calculations estimate that he could be liable to 11k tax payments over 2 years, just to receive this 10k payment. It sounds nuts to be honest!

I really not sure how the smart destocking works with the accountant and niether of us have much faith in the current guy either.

He can put his losses against the Beam Payment or else fire your accountant, there's no way if he has lost more than 10000 on his cattle that he's have to pay income tax on the beam payment.
When I was involved in CPOs IN IFA the number of farmers with mistakes in their CGT was unreal so don't take it for granted that the accountant is right.
A neighbour was telling me in the last few week that his tax bill was€4000 ....LAST YEAR OF ALL YEARS. I told him it was mad so he went back and told the accountant he was fired if he didn't change that so it's less than half that now ....like WTF

wrangler · 03-09-2019 5:34pm

whelan2 wrote: »

We are in the bdgp does that count?

I think it does, presume you're referring about your fathers suckler herd, your little dairy herd just mightn't

whelan2 · 03-09-2019 5:43pm

wrangler wrote: »

I think it does, presume you're referring about your fathers suckler herd, your little dairy herd just mightn't

Ye it's for my dad. I didnt bother even looking into it as I thought he needed to be bord bia approved

wrangler · 03-09-2019 5:46pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Ye it's for my dad. I didnt bother even looking into it as I thought he needed to be bord bia approved

Apply any way, I'll take the money if you don't want it

Hurling Hereford · 03-09-2019 5:48pm

wrangler wrote: »

Doesn't do farmers any good either if we claim that farmers have lost 100m and then they only look for 50m.
There might be time yet, when's the closing date

Applications are being accepted from 19th August to Sunday, 8th September 2019 (midnight)

Hurling Hereford · 03-09-2019 5:52pm

whelan2 wrote: »

We are in the bdgp does that count?

Yeah, the Beef Data & Genomics Programme is one of the Environmental schemes

Cavanjack · 03-09-2019 5:55pm

wrangler wrote: »

He can put his losses against the Beam Payment or else fire your accountant, there's no way if he has lost more than 10000 on his cattle that he's have to pay income tax on the beam payment.
When I was involved in CPOs IN IFA the number of farmers with mistakes in their CGT was unreal so don't take it for granted that the accountant is right.
A neighbour was telling me in the last few week that his tax bill was€4000 ....LAST YEAR OF ALL YEARS. I told him it was mad so he went back and told the accountant he was fired if he didn't change that so it's less than half that now ....like WTF

Sure take a middling sfp anc glas pension (maybe) you wouldn’t be long hitting a tax bill of 4K.

wrangler · 03-09-2019 5:59pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

Sure take a middling sfp anc glas pension (maybe) you wouldn’t be long hitting a tax bill of 4K.

parttime farmer , paying tax in work, 4000 tax on the farm, I should've clarified that

Hurling Hereford · 03-09-2019 6:07pm

wrangler wrote: »

Parttime farmer claiming all allowance on his salary/pension, country is full of them

And that's a great thing.

wrangler · 03-09-2019 6:20pm

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

And that's a great thing.

Oh yea, wish I had done it,

whelan2 · 03-09-2019 6:28pm

Applied there. When is the payment being made?

kollegeknight · 03-09-2019 6:31pm

whelan2 wrote: »

We are in the bdgp does that count?

According to the t&c yes.

Hurling Hereford · 03-09-2019 8:06pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Applied there. When is the payment being made?

December 2019

Hurling Hereford · 03-09-2019 8:08pm

wrangler wrote: »

Oh yea, wish I had done it,

Sure what stopped you?

pure breed · 03-09-2019 8:14pm

Apologies if this is a stupid question about BEAM.
But say you have to reduce by 240kg roughly 4-5 cows for the scheme.
Do you have to have reduced by start ie. On day one of the period 01/07/20 to 30/06/21??? Or can it be by the end of the term?? Thanks.

wrangler · 03-09-2019 8:18pm

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

Sure what stopped you?

Life took over when I left school, parents were old,brother died at 21 after a year in hospital, father in a nursing home for five years had to help my mother to pay for it, I was thirty before I knew it and in debt

tanko · 03-09-2019 8:44pm

pure breed wrote: »

Apologies if this is a stupid question about BEAM.
But say you have to reduce by 240kg roughly 4-5 cows for the scheme.
Do you have to have reduced by start ie. On day one of the period 01/07/20 to 30/06/21??? Or can it be by the end of the term?? Thanks.

From the start if doing it that way i think.

Cavanjack · 03-09-2019 8:46pm

pure breed wrote: »

Apologies if this is a stupid question about BEAM.
But say you have to reduce by 240kg roughly 4-5 cows for the scheme.
Do you have to have reduced by start ie. On day one of the period 01/07/20 to 30/06/21??? Or can it be by the end of the term?? Thanks.

I think a suckler cow is worth 65kg/n per year so to be safe you need to reduce by 4 cows for 12 months of the year. If you wait until the last month you would have to reduce by 45cows in the last month.
So reduce by 4 cows from 1/7/20 or wait until 1/6/21 and reduce by 45

pure breed · 03-09-2019 9:04pm

Cavanjack wrote:

I think a suckler cow is worth 65kg/n per year so to be safe you need to reduce by 4 cows for 12 months of the year. If you wait until the last month you would have to reduce by 45cows in the last month. So reduce by 4 cows from 1/7/20 or wait until 1/6/21 and reduce by 45

Thanks Cavanjack makes sense, just wondering as we have spring/autumn calving so numbers be changing fairly regular.

Robson99 · 03-09-2019 9:17pm

pure breed wrote: »

Apologies if this is a stupid question about BEAM.
But say you have to reduce by 240kg roughly 4-5 cows for the scheme.
Do you have to have reduced by start ie. On day one of the period 01/07/20 to 30/06/21??? Or can it be by the end of the term?? Thanks.

Average over 12 months so either 5 for 12 months or 10 for 6 months

Hurling Hereford · 03-09-2019 9:24pm

wrangler wrote: »

Life took over when I left school, parents were old,brother died at 21 after a year in hospital, father in a nursing home for five years had to help my mother to pay for it, I was thirty before I knew it and in debt

By God, life hasn't been 'a bed of roses' for you lad. Far from it

wrangler · 03-09-2019 9:33pm

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

By God, life hasn't been 'a bed of roses' for you lad. Far from it

You couldn't write my twenties when most are supposed to be acting the hoor not be broke all the f...ing time

Sugarbowl · 03-09-2019 10:59pm

pure breed wrote: »

Apologies if this is a stupid question about BEAM.
But say you have to reduce by 240kg roughly 4-5 cows for the scheme.
Do you have to have reduced by start ie. On day one of the period 01/07/20 to 30/06/21??? Or can it be by the end of the term?? Thanks.

But you don't necessarily have to cut down 4 cows in one go am I right? Like next Spring if you cull 2 cows that will be a start towards your reduction considering they are not replaced. I think I'm right in saying that. Your reference period is already decided so you could be selling weanling away from this winter if you wanted and it would be a help rather than a big dramatic decrease. That's my take on it anyway. Still haven't decided whether to sign up.

coolshannagh28 · 03-09-2019 11:06pm

Sugarbowl wrote: »

But you don't necessarily have to cut down 4 cows in one go am I right? Like next Spring if you cull 2 cows that will be a start towards your reduction considering they are not replaced. I think I'm right in saying that. Your reference period is already decided so you could be selling weanling away from this winter if you wanted and it would be a help rather than a big dramatic decrease. That's my take on it anyway. Still haven't decided whether to sign up.

You have to reduce your average carbon output over the future reference period by the stipulated 5% by reducing your average stocking level , this can be achieved by reducing a smaller number of any type of cattle over all of that time frame or reducing a lot of cattle over a short time frame .

Sugarbowl · 03-09-2019 11:13pm

Oh I see...
So I sell 10 weanling in April 2020 we'll say. Will that be counted against my reduction come July 2020-2021?

coolshannagh28 · 03-09-2019 11:18pm

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Oh I see...
So I sell 10 weanling in April 2020 we'll say. Will that be counted against my reduction come July 2020-2021?

The reduction must be within the reference period 1st july onward so you must monitor your reduction monthly either online or through your advisor .
Now the timing of the reference period is the catch and may be used as a future reference period as some farmers suspect as it would have been more logical to have the two reference periods following each other I assume.

Sugarbowl · 03-09-2019 11:47pm

But what I'm trying to get at is my reference value was 3000 kgs N and from July 2020 to 2021 I need to reduce it by 150 N to 2850kgs. So next Spring I sell a bunch of cattle which are not replaced. My stocking rate will stay the same for the required period and will be below 2850kgs. There should be no reason for me to sell anymore cattle during that time. Am I right in saying that?

tanko · 04-09-2019 12:00am

Sugarbowl wrote: »

But what I'm trying to get at is my reference value was 3000 kgs N and from July 2020 to 2021 I need to reduce it by 150 N to 2850kgs. So next Spring I sell a bunch of cattle which are not replaced. My stocking rate will stay the same for the required period and will be below 2850kgs. There should be no reason for me to sell anymore cattle during that time. Am I right in saying that?

Depends on the age of the cattle.
I think as some cattle get older their N value increases so even though your batch of cattle might be under 2850kgs in July 2020 they could be over it by July 2021. But it's the average value over the 12 months that matters i think.

coolshannagh28 · 04-09-2019 12:06am

Sugarbowl wrote: »

But what I'm trying to get at is my reference value was 3000 kgs N and from July 2020 to 2021 I need to reduce it by 150 N to 2850kgs. So next Spring I sell a bunch of cattle which are not replaced. My stocking rate will stay the same for the required period and will be below 2850kgs. There should be no reason for me to sell anymore cattle during that time. Am I right in saying that?

Should be safe enough if not replaced and you stay under 2850 kgs but I would refer it to an advisor to be 100% sure .

Bellview · 04-09-2019 10:01am

Slow take up for scheme deadline now extended by a week

whelan2 · 04-09-2019 10:06am

Bellview wrote: »

Slow take up for scheme deadline now extended by a week

I didn't know we were eligible until yesterday. I assumed we didnt qualify

foundation10 · 04-09-2019 10:07am

Bellview wrote: »

Slow take up for scheme deadline now extended by a week

I cannot understand such a low uptake on the scheme. It may be the reduction required is putting farmers off but I would have thought most finishers and suckler farmers would be looking to reduce numbers anyway given the outlook.

Bass Reeves · 04-09-2019 10:38am

foundation10 wrote: »

I cannot understand such a low uptake on the scheme. It may be the reduction required is putting farmers off but I would have thought most finishers and suckler farmers would be looking to reduce numbers anyway given the outlook.

For a lot of farmers it's only 3-600 euro. I killed 55 last year 4 qualified for the scheme. That 400 euro. My nitrates in the qualifications period was skewed by last summer drought. As well I was reconfiguring my system which works against me. If I try to reduce I will have to kill 3-5 less cattle or slaughter cattle earlier which could reduce my farm profit by 300-1.5k. I have applied but I am treating it as an interest free loan

As well a lot of older farmers that buy to qualify for ANC and slaughter in the autumn are not on line and may not apply. It a pigs ar5e of a scheme. Expecting lads that are getting less than 1k to reduce stocking levels was stupid.

orm0nd · 04-09-2019 10:39am

Closing date extended

coolshannagh28 · 04-09-2019 10:42am

orm0nd wrote: »

Closing date extended

Its typical of the confusing myriad of mickey mouse schemes out there , an insult to the farmer !

Welding Rod · 04-09-2019 11:59am

It’s the most stupid scheme ever invented in my opinion.
Why you would volunteer to cut back future production for a few shekels now, is just counter intuitive for most people.
Better for the government spend what they have to, in order to tear into the cozy selfie serving relationships between the beef barons and the retailers. They set up the CAB and created targeted legislation to tear into organised crime after Veronica Guerin was shot. To be fair to the guards, they ripped into the thugs and the rest is history.

There is new and more targeted legislation and appropriately resourced supervisory / investigatory body needed to flake into the barons and the retailers.

Time to bring them to heel with a bang.

Dozer1 · 04-09-2019 12:17pm

unless there is an app offered through ICBF where you can see you N levels on an easy basis then I'd be slow advising anyone to join, as already pointed out as cattle age there N level is increased.

either way its a quota in my opinion so they can shove it

whelan2 · 04-09-2019 12:25pm

We got a text this morning saying we are in the scheme and to reply y or n to our tesgasc advisors name

Bass Reeves · 04-09-2019 12:35pm

Dozer1 wrote: »

unless there is an app offered through ICBF where you can see you N levels on an easy basis then I'd be slow advising anyone to join, as already pointed out as cattle age there N level is increased.

either way its a quota in my opinion so they can shove it

Apply farm away and look at it as an interest free loan

charolais0153 · 04-09-2019 1:06pm

Welding Rod wrote: »

It’s the most stupid scheme ever invented in my opinion.
Why you would volunteer to cut back future production for a few shekels now, is just counter intuitive for most people.
Better for the government spend what they have to, in order to tear into the cozy selfie serving relationships between the beef barons and the retailers. They set up the CAB and created targeted legislation to tear into organised crime after Veronica Guerin was shot. To be fair to the guards, they ripped into the thugs and the rest is history.

There is new and more targeted legislation and appropriately resourced supervisory / investigatory body needed to flake into the barons and the retailers.

Time to bring them to heel with a bang.

Producing more for less is counterintuitive, take the money and run, you'll be aswell off with less work

dohc turbo2 · 04-09-2019 1:55pm

Dozer1 wrote: »

unless there is an app offered through ICBF where you can see you N levels on an easy basis then I'd be slow advising anyone to join, as already pointed out as cattle age there N level is increased.

either way its a quota in my opinion so they can shove it

On the ICBF if u look at stock numbers month by month you would be able to keep an eye on it

pure breed · 04-09-2019 7:40pm

Dozer1 wrote:

unless there is an app offered through ICBF where you can see you N levels on an easy basis then I'd be slow advising anyone to join, as already pointed out as cattle age there N level is increased.

Great point, I agree there needs to be a easy way of seeing your value in kgs by a weekly, monthly or whatever way instead of having to calculate yourself.

Base price · 04-09-2019 8:35pm

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

On the ICBF if u look at stock numbers month by month you would be able to keep an eye on it

pure breed wrote: »

Great point, I agree there needs to be a easy way of seeing your value in kgs by a weekly, monthly or whatever way instead of having to calculate yourself.

Why pay a entity/service provider to view that information.

DAFM via Agfood have all our cattle statistics but unfortunately afaik they only record our farm nitrates information per quarter.

Methinks that we need to request that they provide a time pertinent - daily/weekly nitrate statement.

Dozer1 · 04-09-2019 9:42pm

Because Base they have pretty much forced a sign up to ICBF as a result of the latest beef schemes so they might aswell do the app as a result - BEEP being one example, you can only record weights on ICBF.

As for the interest free loan view BASS...already got a rap on the knuckles for GLAS and sent them a cheque back for it this week so I'll pass thanks

Cavanjack · 04-09-2019 10:12pm

Dozer1 wrote: »

Because Base they have pretty much forced a sign up to ICBF as a result of the latest beef schemes so they might aswell do the app as a result - BEEP being one example, you can only record weights on ICBF.

As for the interest free loan view BASS...already got a rap on the knuckles for GLAS and sent them a cheque back for it this week so I'll pass thanks

What did you go down on?

Dozer1 · 04-09-2019 10:20pm

P soil levels,
soil samples results arrived after I had fert bought and out.. lesson learned

High bike · 04-09-2019 10:22pm

Dozer1 wrote: »

P soil levels,
soil samples results arrived after I had fert bought and out.. lesson learned

what % penalty was it for that?

tractorporn · 04-09-2019 10:23pm

Great point, I agree there needs to be a easy way of seeing your value in kgs by a weekly, monthly or whatever way instead of having to calculate yourself.[/quote]

What your asking for is literally available on agfood to see along with P and K statements.

I see base beat me to it, but from quarterly figures you should be able to monitor your N.

I says · 05-09-2019 12:01am

Looked at it there I qualify for it for what I killed in the window all I’ll get is the price of a finished Bullock so I’m out, to much hassle trying to worry about nitrates as well as all the other paper work so fcuk it I’ll not loose sleep over it.
The way things are going I’d be as well off taking down every internal gate buy min stocking rate and let them roam the place from one end of the year to the next. No silage, no shed, no tractor, no fert no nothing. Only time to look at stock is herd test.

My â‚¬100m BEAM scheme

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