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Next Gen Freesat?
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05-07-2017 12:12pm#1
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Features like:
- Recording more channels simultaneously
- Streaming to mini boxes from the main box
- Streaming to tablets from the main box
I liked my Humax Foxsat with modified software so much, I bought a second one cheap on Ebay to get me more simultaneous recordings.
The mini boxes are RPi3s (built in wifi) running LibreELEC
Streams to Kodi on the kids' tablets and my laptop
All can play ripped DVDs from my NAS as well.
Yes it won't stream in HD but I don't care. Hassle free, works well and even the other half can work it
Scrap the cap!
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Hotblack Desiato wrote: »I liked my Humax Foxsat with modified software so much, I bought a second one cheap on Ebay to get me more simultaneous recordings.
The mini boxes are RPi3s (built in wifi) running LibreELEC
Streams to Kodi on the kids' tablets and my laptop
All can play ripped DVDs from my NAS as well.
Yes it won't stream in HD but I don't care. Hassle free, works well and even the other half can work it
Some of us do all of this (in HD) with RPis and tvheadend. The backend needs a bit of (linux) know how, but the front end is simples (tip: use a simple skin). I have a cheap sat>ip device in the attic and a couple (one per mux) of usb DVB-T tuners connect to a RPi2 running raspbian and tvheadend. On tvheadend I have a set of groups that people can choose between, so we have Kids, News, All, channel groups that can be selected on the client device (RPi/LibreELEC). Total initial setup cost me about 300 quid. For that I can record up to 3 sat channels while watching another. I have tested this running 4 HD channels around the house without any jitter or buffering issues.
With a bit of port forwarding and dynamic DNS I can access on any device anywhere outside the home. This is also useful for setting up a recording from my phone anywhere there is a data connection.
Going on holidays recently, I simply took one of these client RPis with me, plugged into the TV in the holiday apartment and connected to the wifi there and accessed our home TV system as if we were at home. All in HD*.
*a decent uplink (>12Mb) on the home broadband is need for HD outside the home.0 -
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PabloAndRoy wrote: »Telestar Digibit R1.
https://www.amazon.de/Telestar-Digibit-Sat-IP-Netzwerk-Transmitter/dp/B008OVPYCQ/ref=sr_1_1
4 tuners for €122. Hard to beat that!
Simple to configure over a web interface (although there is no real configuration needed) and tvheadend just picks up the individual tuners as if they are connected directly.
Thanks! Great price for 4 tuners!
I have looked but cannot find if the device makes all channels on a mux available or just one channel per tuner.
Have you tried displaying more than 4 channels ?
Definitely an interesting device at that price.
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Johnboy1951 wrote: »Thanks! Great price for 4 tuners!
I have looked but cannot find if the device makes all channels on a mux available or just one channel per tuner.
Have you tried displaying more than 4 channels ?
Definitely an interesting device at that price.
I am pretty sure it does all channels on the mux, but I will test that for you tonight. In fact now that I think of I am pretty sure (99%) that I tried this before and it does multiple channels per mux. I will confirm tonight.0 -
PabloAndRoy wrote: »I am pretty sure it does all channels on the mux, but I will test that for you tonight. In fact now that I think of I am pretty sure (99%) that I tried this before and it does multiple channels per mux. I will confirm tonight.
Thanks. Yes I expect it does, but it gets confusing when they specifically say only 4 devices can connect. 0 -
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PabloAndRoy wrote: »confirmed .... 4 BBC HD channels on transponder 50 all served by the same tuner. Plus Channel 4 HD served by tuner 2. No jitter or buffering on any of these devices. Backend is a RPi 2.
Thank you for doing that 0 -
@PabloAndRoy
Got my Telestar today.
Presently testing with just one LNB input as I am trying to figure out the details.
Tvheadend shows four tuners but each has four Positions ..... so trying to figure out how to set things up.
Of course the manual arrived in German only .... you don't have a link to an English version do you?
So far I have tried both Tvheadend tuning and also using the playlist in VLC.
Both seem to work well.
Is there an explanation about how these 'positions' should be ustilised?
Thanks.
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PabloAndRoy wrote: »I never did find an English Manual.
I believe those positions are related to the DiSEqC inputs ...
Its explained in the SAT>IP spec on page 44:
http://www.satip.info/sites/satip/files/resource/satip_specification_version_1_2_2.pdf
Thanks for the link.
I will give that a read.
The unit is getting very hot ...... much hotter than I expected.
The heat seems to be mostly concentrated on the bottom of the case.
I'm not comfortable with it presently.
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12 element wrote: »Looks identical to the inverto idl-400s so maybe look that up.
I have an unused one that I might put up on adverts if anyone is interested!
Thanks I grabbed that manual (in Ger & Eng) but it did not address my question about the 4 positions and how they should best be used.
In fact there was no mention of such in the IDL manual.
Nonetheless it is useful for the other things. 0 -
Johnboy1951 wrote: »Thanks for the link.
I will give that a read.
The unit is getting very hot ...... much hotter than I expected.
The heat seems to be mostly concentrated on the bottom of the case.
I'm not comfortable with it presently.
Mine also gets hot, but I have it well positioned in the attic ... It has had an uptime of over 100 days with no problems.0 -
PabloAndRoy wrote: »Mine also gets hot, but I have it well positioned in the attic ... It has had an uptime of over 100 days with no problems.
That's good to know.
Are you using all four tuners?
Wondering if it heats much more with four going.
It seems to me to need a fan ..... I dislike heat in devices ...
I resolved my four 'Positions' with each tuner.
It is a default setting in tvheadend.
It is user editable ..... and I am unsure what function it addresses.
Something else to find out about
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PabloAndRoy wrote: »Some of us do all of this (in HD) with RPis and tvheadend. The backend needs a bit of (linux) know how, but the front end is simples (tip: use a simple skin). I have a cheap sat>ip device in the attic and a couple (one per mux) of usb DVB-T tuners connect to a RPi2 running raspbian and tvheadend. On tvheadend I have a set of groups that people can choose between, so we have Kids, News, All, channel groups that can be selected on the client device (RPi/LibreELEC). Total initial setup cost me about 300 quid. For that I can record up to 3 sat channels while watching another. I have tested this running 4 HD channels around the house without any jitter or buffering issues.
With a bit of port forwarding and dynamic DNS I can access on any device anywhere outside the home. This is also useful for setting up a recording from my phone anywhere there is a data connection.
Going on holidays recently, I simply took one of these client RPis with me, plugged into the TV in the holiday apartment and connected to the wifi there and accessed our home TV system as if we were at home. All in HD*.
*a decent uplink (>12Mb) on the home broadband is need for HD outside the home.
@PabloAndRoy, I'm interested in this setup and considering closing my Sky sub. Have a dish with quad LNB and saorview feed to the attic. the sat->IP device looks good, and I think can configure the RPi's for the TV's without too much problems. Have a few q's you might be bale to help with though;
1. Biggest q; did you do a writeup, or a list of the items and steps needed?
I think I'll need the sat->ip box, 3 x RPi3 (3 TV's), usb DVT-B tuners x2 (what make model did you use, I'm assuming one for terrestial and the other for freeSAT.?)
2. Could you advise re backend config - you mentioned Linux know how
3. Is the max access 4? It's mentioned on the sat-ip device, so 3 tv's and one tablet, for example?
4. Future 4k capabilities? Will need a new TV soon so future considerations. I don't think this will do 4k but as I understand it there's very little FTA 4k content anyhow.
Thanks in advance..0 -
PabloAndRoy wrote: »Mine also gets hot, but I have it well positioned in the attic ... It has had an uptime of over 100 days with no problems.
Yes mine is definitely running at ~50C exterior temperature (case) so no doubt the interior components are much higher than that.
I forgot to mention that I got caught with the power brick.
They supplied one with a EU adaptor, which I thought I would have a UK style for ...... but no their power brick had different spacing of the pins
Did you have that problem or did you remember to ask for a UK style on ordering?
I have yet to find a suitable adaptor on line.0 -
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I sorted my temperature problems with the Telestar!
I put an old, discarded, laptop cooler and hub (Tevion) under it and plugged it into the rear of the box.
The case is now damn cold! EDIT: Measured ~30C
It's a pity it had to be done, but I am very happy with the result.0 -
akasudonim wrote: »@PabloAndRoy, I'm interested in this setup and considering closing my Sky sub. Have a dish with quad LNB and saorview feed to the attic. the sat->IP device looks good, and I think can configure the RPi's for the TV's without too much problems. Have a few q's you might be bale to help with though;
1. Biggest q; did you do a writeup, or a list of the items and steps needed?
I think I'll need the sat->ip box, 3 x RPi3 (3 TV's), usb DVT-B tuners x2 (what make model did you use, I'm assuming one for terrestial and the other for freeSAT.?)
2. Could you advise re backend config - you mentioned Linux know how
3. Is the max access 4? It's mentioned on the sat-ip device, so 3 tv's and one tablet, for example?
4. Future 4k capabilities? Will need a new TV soon so future considerations. I don't think this will do 4k but as I understand it there's very little FTA 4k content anyhow.
Thanks in advance..
I will try to answer these questions in more detail tonight ... but the main issues you might have are:
Do you have electricity in the attic? You will need to power the sat>ip box and your backend pi.
Can you run ethernet from the attic to your router? You will need to get the sat>ip box onto your home network and also the backend RPi. The SAT>IP box does not have WLAN, just 100Mbit ethernet. Powerline might be an option if direct ethernet is not possible. Its probably best to wire up the backend RPi over ethernet also. This is probably gonna be your biggest challenge.
If you can overcome these two aspects, then the rest will be easy peasy.0 -
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The SAT>IP box doesn't not have WLAN, just 100Mbit ethernet.
Mine is connecting to the switch at 1Gb/s.
It might not be capable of serving the full 1Gb/s but the ethernet port is definitely connecting as a Gb full duplex device. 0 -
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akasudonim wrote: »Thanks. Yes everything easily accessible at the same location; router, ethernet switch, power, NAS, co-ax from dish (joiners then routing cables to Sky boxes blelow). i have an unused 1st gen RPi to get started. Also using a few powerlines currently in use too (Xbox and WDLive (though this no longer used)). Just need to check all channels available via this method and the wife (and kids) test before going too much further!!
You will get all Saorview and all Astra FTA channels from that.
Backend:
1st generation RPi will not give a good impression as a backend. It just doesn't have the grunt to do the job adequately. I will need at least an RPi 2, so you may as well get a RPi 3. Including a case, an SD card and a decent 2.1 amp power supply, you are looking at about 50 quid. On this you should install raspbian linux and tvheadend.
For your set up though, you may be able to install tvheadend on your NAS and bypass the need for a backend RPi. You can look that up yourself, depending on the NAS you have ... tvheadend forums are excellent
Sat>IP server as mentioned above 122 from amazon.de. You simple connect your quad lnb to this and connect this to your network and tvheadend on the RPi will discover the tuners individually.
For Saorview, you can use usb dvb-t tuners. I have been using 2 x Geniatech MyGica. It is recommended to connect these to the back end RPi via a powered usb hub as the RPi might have some power issues over usb. You need 2 to cover the 2 muxes that Saorview so you are guaranteed that there the irish channels will be available.
With tvheadend, you basically use the tuners to build your own TV platform. It takes a bit of getting used to, but it is very powerful. You set it up to use bouquests for freesat and mix this with your Saorview channels and any other FTA satellite channels that you can add "manually". Reorder these channels any way you like and build groups based on who is watching and for what purpose.
For recording you can probably use your NAS. Otherwise you will need to plug in a USB Hard drive into the RPi and tell tvheadend to use that drive for recording. So the recording is centralised and can be accessed from any client on the local network. It doesn't work well if you want to access from outside the home. Tvheadend allows to set up for timer recordings, which is just a way of getting something like Series Link driven by the EPG. It works pretty well overall.
TV clients:
LibreELEC is your friend here. You can install this on a RPi 3 and it works very well. The thing to consider here is the remote control. If your TV has HDMI-CEC then you can use your TV remote control to control the Pi. Alternatively you can add IR capabilities to the Pi and then map that to any remote you like. I prefer the IR route as I find HDMI-CEC to be a bit sluggish. lirc is the linux IR subsystem.
Alternatively you can go another route for even cheaper clients. Basically, those cheap android boxes that you can buy on amazon that have the S905 or S905x chipsets. These usually come with some version of android, which is pretty awful. However, there is a community build of LibreELEC which transforms these boxes into a whole new level of slick. The best part of this is that these boxes come with a remote control and a power supply plus you can sometimes install LibreELEC on the internal nand, meaning you don't even need the SD card. I have achieved this for €32 complete. It takes a bit of trial and error to get the correct device tree for the box you have and some boxes do not allow for internal installs so you need a card or USB stick (2GB is plenty for an install). But it is cheap and these boxes run LibreELEC as smoothly as a RPi 3. Most of these boxes also support HDMI-CEC.
Another option is that if you have a TV with Android TV (some Sony and Sanyo TVs), you can access tvheadend via an app in combination with the Live Channels facility. You could also do this on Android TV box such as the Nvidea Shield or the Xiaomi Mi Box. I have not tried this so I cannot speak for it. These are boxes that run the Android TV OS rather than cheap S905 boxes which run some regular Android build.
I will be happy to help you out with any of this stuff, but I can't guarantee that my responses will be quick.0 -
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Johnboy1951 wrote: »So that I have less admin to think about, I have used LibreElec as the backend as well as using it on clients.
All the needed backend software for my needs is available as plugins to LibreElec.
Otherwise there is not much difference in our setups now that I have the Digibi R1 Sat>IP server integrated.
I was going to say that it can be done in the way you do it, in fact I have tried it this way and it is fine. Personally I prefer a more standard full linux distribution,mainly as that is what I am used to using. But that is just a personal preference. The one advantage of my approach is that I can install beta versions of tvheadend whereas with the LibreELEC route you are restraicted to what is curretly in the repo. Although I believe this is currently at version 4.2 ????
For the user above, it is likely that the NAS can be used as a tvheadend server making both our methods redundant 0 -
PabloAndRoy wrote: »I was going to say that it can be done in the way you do it, in fact I have tried it this way and it is fine. Personally I prefer a more standard full linux distribution,mainly as that is what I am used to using. But that is just a personal preference. The one advantage of my approach is that I can install beta versions of tvheadend whereas with the LibreELEC route you are restraicted to what is curretly in the repo. Although I believe this is currently at version 4.2 ????
For the user above, it is likely that the NAS can be used as a tvheadend server making both our methods redundant
In addition I believe there are nightly builds of tvheadend available for the adventurous amongst us as a plugin to libreelec. I have not used them so cannot comment.
Yes Libreelec uses 4.2 presently.
It should also be remembered that any of the 'client R-Pi 3' devices could also act as the server if required.
Not what I would want as I like to keep such functions separated.
Now if only there was a DVB-T equivalent to that Digibit R1 box I would be happy 0 -
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Johnboy1951 wrote: »In addition I believe there are nightly builds of tvheadend available for the adventurous amongst us as a plugin to libreelec. I have not used them so cannot comment.
Yes Libreelec uses 4.2 presently.
It should also be remembered that any of the 'client R-Pi 3' devices could also act as the server if required.
Not what I would want as I like to keep such functions separated.
Now if only there was a DVB-T equivalent to that Digibit R1 box I would be happy
Expensive but the hdhomerun box would be a dvb-t equivalent. I'm using it along with the digibit r1. Running ubuntu with tvheadend as a virtual server on windows 10 and so only option was network tuners. For saorview anyways we are not going to need anymore than the two tuners the hdhomerun has.
In terms of nextgen freesat, as much as i hated plex in the past i'm a big fan of fancy tv guides (posters etc) which plex is now offering. Have tvheadend (with saorview and freesat) connected to plex and have all free to air channels (apart from itv 1 as you have to pick a tvguide source in plex, sky ireland etc and havent found one that covers all channels, closest i've found is missing itv 1). Plex adds all recordings to library so they show up with posters etc so looks well. In terms of live tv only a few devices support it at the moment (think android tv and ios).0 -
kaisersose77 wrote: »Expensive but the hdhomerun box would be a dvb-t equivalent. I'm using it along with the digibit r1. Running ubuntu with tvheadend as a virtual server on windows 10 and so only option was network tuners. For saorview anyways we are not going to need anymore than the two tuners the hdhomerun has.
Yeah unfortunately I have an immediate requirement for a third tuner so am looking to build a box with four USB DVB-T dongles to cover my needs.
Does tvheadend see the tuners in the hdhomerun?
They are listed in tvheadend along with the Digibit tuners?In terms of nextgen freesat, as much as i hated plex in the past i'm a big fan of fancy tv guides (posters etc) which plex is now offering. Have tvheadend (with saorview and freesat) connected to plex and have all free to air channels (apart from itv 1 as you have to pick a tvguide source in plex, sky ireland etc and havent found one that covers all channels, closest i've found is missing itv 1). Plex adds all recordings to library so they show up with posters etc so looks well. In terms of live tv only a few devices support it at the moment (think android tv and ios).
I use tvheadend to get the epg for all the channels I have listed.
All FTA channels EPG displays correctly.
I don't use the function, but Kodi has the ability to display posters etc.
I tend not to as I use underpowered client machines and am not really 'into' posters etc.
I did set it up at one time just to see what it was like - ages ago 0 -
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