DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

incentsitive · 13-09-2018 2:13pm

I have another question - bar the sea, is there anywhere else to get into some very cold water in Dublin. Or how do people deal with the need to cool everything down a bit?
Legs starting to ache, I could just about make it to the 40foot before dark these days.
The cold shower water isn't quite cold enough!

Mr. Guappa · 13-09-2018 2:16pm

aloooof wrote: »

I'm curious on this as well, how many gels would you be recommended to take during the marathon? I'v tried the Clif Shot Bloks and found them very good, but having to take one every 2 miles or so could end up getting annoying.

I have some Tailwind samples that I'm gonna try this weekend as well to give me another option.

I recall someone mentioning 4 gels per marathon as being the magic number, taken at miles 6, 12, 18, 21. That was for approx a 4 hour marathon IIRC.

Rossi7 · 13-09-2018 2:52pm

aloooof wrote: »

Rossi7 wrote: »

Try to test it out this weekend as your slowly running ( pardon the pun ) out of LSR to try out what best suits you. I bought those Cliff blocks, I was told afterwards that 3 blocks are the same as what one gel does. Don't fancy running around Dublin like a sweet shop so I'll revert back to the gels. I used two blocks on my 20m LSR on Saturday purely to take away the hunger in between two gels.
If you check out the course of the DCM website they show exactly where and what they have at the water stations

I'm curious on this as well, how many gels would you be recommended to take during the marathon? I'v tried the Clif Shot Bloks and found them very good, but having to take one every 2 miles or so could end up getting annoying.

I have some Tailwind samples that I'm gonna try this weekend as well to give me another option.

To be honest it's whatever works for the individual, personally I'll be looking to take 3 but as mentioned in other posts you can never have enough so I'll have a fourth one to try get me over the last 6 miles. I'll throw 3 cliff blocks into my shorts and as I've done on my last LSR, when I feel the hunger coming on I'll take one. Probably more mind over matter but works for me at the minute

Rossi7 · 13-09-2018 2:54pm

incentsitive wrote: »

I have another question - bar the sea, is there anywhere else to get into some very cold water in Dublin. Or how do people deal with the need to cool everything down a bit?
Legs starting to ache, I could just about make it to the 40foot before dark these days.
The cold shower water isn't quite cold enough!

A bag of ice out of Supervalu for €1 and a bath full of cold water should do the trick

Kellygirl · 13-09-2018 3:02pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I recall someone mentioning 4 gels per marathon as being the magic number, taken at miles 6, 12, 18, 21. That was for approx a 4 hour marathon IIRC.

I know that wouldn’t be enough for me and I tend to take one every 45 mins. There is a recommended number of carbs required per hour according to your weight ( SkyBlue is the numbers guru) but you already will have carb loaded and all your actually doing is topping up. I think when I calculated it last year the number was 60g. That would mean an isogel every 20 mins and I don’t think anybody could take that much in :eek:.

OOnegative · 13-09-2018 3:13pm

https://goo.gl/images/Fa5yuw

Get the fueling right over the next few weeks folks, nobody wants to be this poor dude on DCM day......

coogy · 13-09-2018 3:44pm

Kellygirl wrote: »

I know that wouldn’t be enough for me and I tend to take one every 45 mins. There is a recommended number of carbs required per hour according to your weight ( SkyBlue is the numbers guru) but you already will have carb loaded and all your actually doing is topping up. I think when I calculated it last year the number was 60g. That would mean an isogel every 20 mins and I don’t think anybody could take that much in :eek:.

Hmmmm, I feel this is an area I'm really going to have to do my homework on. All I've been using to date are cliff bloks and zero tabs.

For my 18 mile run a few weeks ago, I took 3 cliff bloks. I don't really know if that was sufficient but I felt ok at the end. Gonna do a bit of research on this over the next few days.............

aloooof · 13-09-2018 3:56pm

Rossi7 wrote: »

To be honest it's whatever works for the individual, personally I'll be looking to take 3 but as mentioned in other posts you can never have enough so I'll have a fourth one to try get me over the last 6 miles. I'll throw 3 cliff blocks into my shorts and as I've done on my last LSR, when I feel the hunger coming on I'll take one. Probably more mind over matter but works for me at the minute

The clif shot bloks worked well for me previously, so I might just stick with those, tho I am going to try Tailwind out. The gels don't agree with me at all unfortunately.

aloooof · 13-09-2018 3:57pm

coogy wrote: »

Hmmmm, I feel this is an area I'm really going to have to do my homework on. All I've been using to date are cliff bloks and zero tabs.

For my 18 mile run a few weeks ago, I took 3 cliff bloks. I don't really know if that was sufficient but I felt ok at the end. Gonna do a bit of research on this over the next few days.............

I'm in the exact same boat, coogy, was planning on using clif shot cloks and high5 tabs on the day. Took 4 of the shot bloks during my 20 mile run and felt totally fine. But needing to take 2 or 3 times that many may not be practical.

I've some Tailwind samples which I'm going to try this weekend, as I can't really take the gels.

coogy · 13-09-2018 4:03pm

aloooof wrote: »

I'm in the exact same boat, coogy, was planning on using clif shot cloks and high5 tabs on the day. Took 4 of the shot bloks during my 20 mile run and felt totally fine. But needing to take 2 or 3 times that many may not be practical.

I've some Tailwind samples which I'm going to try this weekend, as I can't really take the gels.

The whole Tailwind conversation completely went over my head. Need to catch up on that too!

Hedgehoggy · 13-09-2018 4:05pm

incentsitive wrote: »

I have another question - bar the sea, is there anywhere else to get into some very cold water in Dublin. Or how do people deal with the need to cool everything down a bit?
Legs starting to ache, I could just about make it to the 40foot before dark these days.
The cold shower water isn't quite cold enough!

When I was playing football we were told that there is no real evidence supporting any benefits of icebaths.... but if you like them....

OOnegative · 13-09-2018 4:06pm

aloooof wrote: »

I'm in the exact same boat, coogy, was planning on using clif shot cloks and high5 tabs on the day. Took 4 of the shot bloks during my 20 mile run and felt totally fine. But needing to take 2 or 3 times that many may not be practical.

I've some Tailwind samples which I'm going to try this weekend, as I can't really take the gels.

We’re all different, in my marathon debut in 2016 I took four HIGH5 Isogels and water only on board bar a sip of the local energy drink with 4K left that I spat out. Find what works & stick to it. During my training for that marathon I done a few test runs of race day strategy, first one was disaster opening gels all over myself and loosing one. Second time around everything went fine & same thankfully in marathon day.

incentsitive · 13-09-2018 4:08pm

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

When I was playing football we were told that there is no real evidence supporting any benefits of icebaths.... but if you like them....

Yeah the benefits are debated alright, I love them though and they definitely cool everything down a bit. Legs are feeling a bit jaded and that has been fixed by a dip in the sea before.

Might try get to the 40ft tonight if I can make it!

Rossi7 · 13-09-2018 4:13pm

If it's not broken Coogy and all that, but as OOnegative said now is the time to try it out. From what I heard unless you have Tailwind pre made it's a bit of a disaster to try use on the run. I've heard people mentioning they put the powder into straws and then fill up at the water stations, bit extreme if you ask me.

Hedgehoggy · 13-09-2018 4:15pm

incentsitive wrote: »

Yeah the benefits are debated alright, I love them though and they definitely cool everything down a bit. Legs are feeling a bit jaded and that has been fixed by a dip in the sea before.

Might try get to the 40ft tonight if I can make it!

Masochist!! but then I guess that might be levied against any of us....

incentsitive · 13-09-2018 4:21pm

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Masochist!! but then I guess that might be levied against any of us....

I will be regretting it as I stand beside the water, knowing I have to get in.

beakerjoe · 13-09-2018 5:12pm

In relation to when to take on gels, and I may be very niave about it, but I dont have set times.

I try go as long as possible without taking one on. For example I brought 4 with me to the last Marathon.

I waited as long as I could before consuming one at mile 10, then another at mile 16 and another one at mile 21 before finishing it up on mile 23.

Dunno if thats smart but I always felt my body tells me when I want one and go off that. Its worked for me so far.

Sheep1978 · 13-09-2018 5:18pm

beakerjoe wrote: »

In relation to when to take on gels, and I may be very niave about it, but I dont have set times.

I try go as long as possible without taking one on. For example I brought 4 with me to the last Marathon.

I waited as long as I could before consuming one at mile 10, then another at mile 16 and another one at mile 21 before finishing it up on mile 23.

Dunno if thats smart but I always felt my body tells me when I want one and go off that. Its worked for me so far.

is there a danger of waiting too long.? i.e. your body tells you it needs one but before the effects of it can take hold, you've crashed and lost time etc.?

beakerjoe · 13-09-2018 5:20pm

Sheep1978 wrote: »

is there a danger of waiting too long.? i.e. your body tells you it needs one but before the effects of it can take hold, you've crashed and lost time etc.?

Potentially, Im no expert. Just from my own experience I never had set times

OOnegative · 13-09-2018 5:34pm

Sheep1978 wrote: »

is there a danger of waiting too long.? i.e. your body tells you it needs one but before the effects of it can take hold, you've crashed and lost time etc.?

There is that possibility, you leave it to long to take the gel end up bonking and the gel you then take is no use are you as your body can’t use it in the way it was meant i.e give the body a boost. A gel every 6 miles or so worked for me, 6,12,18 then last at 21.

skyblue46 · 13-09-2018 5:35pm

Sheep1978 wrote: »

is there a danger of waiting too long.? i.e. your body tells you it needs one but before the effects of it can take hold, you've crashed and lost time etc.?

It can take up to 20 minutes to get into the system in an effective way. The science is pretty clear on the optimal fueling strategy but most people can't face the idea of consuming the suggested amounts. What did you use last year D?

RayCun · 13-09-2018 5:38pm

The science is interesting, in that you get a boost from gels (or any carbohydrates) as soon as you eat them, before they have time to be digested. Even when athletes swish a carb-rich drink around their mouth and spit it out, so it never enters their bloodstream, they get a boost. Fatigue is largely mental, your brain thinking that it won't be able to continue at the present effort and telling you to ease off. If you fool your brain into thinking there is fuel on the way, it decides that maybe you aren't so tired after all.

At the same time, if you start taking gels earlier, you keep your glycogen levels topped up. If you wait until you think you need them, your levels are low, and you can't digest enough to bring them back up - you're going to keep bumping along at that low level.

Also, if you use thicker gels, it's a good idea to time them to water stations so you can wash them down.

skyblue46 · 13-09-2018 5:42pm

It's that the sugar in the bloodstream goes firstly to the brain and gives us a high sugar rush and makes us feel better. It takes a lot longer to fuel the muscles.

incentsitive · 13-09-2018 5:46pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Sheep1978 wrote: »

is there a danger of waiting too long.? i.e. your body tells you it needs one but before the effects of it can take hold, you've crashed and lost time etc.?

There is that possibility, you leave it to long to take the gel end up bonking and the gel you then take is no use are you as your body can’t use it in the way it was meant i.e give the body a boost. A gel every 6 miles or so worked for me, 6,12,18 then last at 21.

Jesus, I've no intention of bonking during the marathon.....

beakerjoe · 13-09-2018 5:48pm

Ive always thought they give me a placebo effect in that they dont actually help me but the idea of them makes me believe they work.

Comic Book Guy · 13-09-2018 6:54pm

Just on the topic of gels. I see on the marathon map that the first one is available at mile 16 I think so people would be bringing one or 2 of their own to see them through to then.
How are people carrying these? Soft question I know! I don't have one of those belts and all the shorts I have only have a small zip pocket at the back that can just about accommodate 1 70g gel. When I put it in I found it still to be a bit cumbersome and it actually started to have a small kinda drag effect on my shorts of slowly pulling them down! I ended up taking it out after a mile and just holding it in my hand until I used it which wasn't ideal.
I'm going to wear a sweat band on my wrist for next long run just to deal with forehead sweat and had initially thought of tucking one inside this but doubt it would stay in place without s bit of tape.

Supercell · 13-09-2018 7:05pm

To add my tuppance to the fuelling discussion, I'm planning to take 4 Powerbar "powergels" (5,10,15,20 miles depending on feel on the day) and carry the Powerbar jellies in a Spibelt for in between. I've found the caffeine powergels to be very good in training and don't disagree with my stomach so thats my fuelling strategy.
The powergels are very liquid so don't need washing down and don't leave a sticky mess like other gels I've tried. For hydration I'm planning walking and drinking at the stops as needed on the day.

bucketybuck · 13-09-2018 7:23pm

beakerjoe wrote: »

I try go as long as possible without taking one on.

I have to agree, that is a dangerous strategy.

Its like driving a car and ignoring the warning lights until it runs out of fuel and cuts out. Its been chugging along for the last few miles, picking up dirt from the bottom of the fuel tank and running like crap, now its finally gave up and you need to find some fuel and then bleed the system.

Nobody wants that so they keep the fuel tank topped up above a minimum. Why do any different to your body?

bucketybuck · 13-09-2018 7:33pm

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

Just on the topic of gels. I see on the marathon map that the first one is available at mile 16 I think so people would be bringing one or 2 of their own to see them through to then.

Personally I plan to bring everything I need with me, I would not be comfortable relying on anything outside of my control. What if you get to mile 16 and there are no gels left? Or you don't see the gels at all? Its easier than you might think to be running along and miss a stand that was handing out gels or Lucozade or whatever.

Even friends holding items for you can't be guaranteed, what if they get held up somewhere? What if it pisses rain and they duck under a tree for 10 minutes and miss you? After all this training it would be a shame to hit the wall badly because the fuel you planned for wasn't there.

I can't carry enough water but outside of that I would be treating anything I get from the course to be a bonus, the vital items will be coming with me.

Kellygirl · 13-09-2018 8:03pm

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

Just on the topic of gels. I see on the marathon map that the first one is available at mile 16 I think so people would be bringing one or 2 of their own to see them through to then.
How are people carrying these? Soft question I know! I don't have one of those belts and all the shorts I have only have a small zip pocket at the back that can just about accommodate 1 70g gel. When I put it in I found it still to be a bit cumbersome and it actually started to have a small kinda drag effect on my shorts of slowly pulling them down! I ended up taking it out after a mile and just holding it in my hand until I used it which wasn't ideal.
I'm going to wear a sweat band on my wrist for next long run just to deal with forehead sweat and had initially thought of tucking one inside this but doubt it would stay in place without s bit of tape.

As above - I would consider the gels on the course a bonus but don’t rely on them. I was through the gel station before I realized last year. The sticky ground after it will tell you. However if you spill a gel or lose one at least you know there are two stations on the course.

Would you consider a flip belt to carry them? Very comfortable, doesn’t budge and you’d barely notice it. There are smaller belts again that are almost like pieces of elastic with loops on the, to stick gels into. I had the High 5 version - the gels flapped a little though which annoyed me. I know somebody who tapes the gels to her arms - but to me that would be like ripping off a plaster and not very appealing!

DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

Comments