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DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

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    #1172
    brownbinman
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭brownbinman


    Clontarf 1/2 marathon this morning. Started at 10 and my god it was roasting. Very tough conditions and really felt it

    Aimed to get minimum of the 10mile as per the plan and was going to take the last 3 miles as they came. Which were tough and had to dig deep.

    Lad I was with got awful calf cramp so was very much stop start. Overall was nice long run


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    #1173
    coogy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭coogy


    sumsar wrote: »
    I was discussing it with a friend recently and explained I've heard the words "respect the distance" however I think at this stage I still don't quite realize what's ahead of me ha

    I've signed up for the full Dublin Race series so I hope that helps put my head in the right mindset.


    Respect the distance.....couldn't agree more!

    I'm getting more used to what it means to run even just one mile and using that to help me appreciate what's in store come October. Some miles come easy, others appear to go on for infinity but I know that this was never meant to be easy. Wouldn't have signed up otherwise!!!


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    #1174
    Huzzah!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    Not even 8pm on a Saturday and I'm strongly considering going to bed. Hello, marathon training!


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    #1175
    Applegirl26
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Applegirl26


    That's the first thought I have when I think of running a marathon... Respect the distance.

    I ran 10 miles this morning and at the end of it, all I could think about was how was I going to run a further 16 miles someday soon?! It's overwhelming but that's ok. It's good to be a little bit scared.
    Once upon a time I couldn't run at all and sure look at me now, training for DCM with the greatest group of novices and mentors ever, who inspire me everyday when I look at Strava and see everyones runs.


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    #1176
    Applegirl26
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Applegirl26


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    Not even 8pm on a Saturday and I'm strongly considering going to bed. Hello, marathon training!

    I haven't seen 10pm in months!!!!!


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    #1177
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Mr. Guappa wrote: »
    Cheers. May have to re-think my DCM target time (4h)! My only other planned race before DCM is the Clonmel Half at end of August, in hopefully less severe conditions. I'll see how that goes, then look at DCM target time. If nothing else today has given me a new respect for the size of the task ahead.

    Well done on toughing it out. That will stand to you in the future. 16 weeks is a lot of training so don't even consider revising your targets yet. Personally I don't think you'll have to. Keep the runs slow, no matter how short or slow they seem. You have been doing a great job with this so far by and large. As has been explained in great detail before, by far wiser folk than me, it is the key to building endurance. You'll get there.


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    #1178
    ariana`
    Registered Users Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Great running today from these parts. I know i've said it before but it hasn't been an easy introduction to marathon training for you guys with this unseasonably hot weather but it will all stand to you - the tough runs will stand to you even more than the ones that went to plan. When you're hitting Roebuck/Heartbreak Hill at mile 20 (i think) of DCM then remembering the tough runs that you struggled through over the previous 18 weeks will really help to keep you going, so keep up the good work everyone ;)


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    #1179
    sumsar
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭sumsar


    ariana` wrote: »
    so keep up the good work everyone ;)

    Cheers Ariana!

    I mentioned before I'll post my weekly runs here in addition to my log so here are my runs for week 2;


    total distance of 16.3 miles
    total time of 3hrs 30minutes

    Week 2 Day 1
    Distance: 3.1 mi
    Moving Time: 37:14
    Avg Pace: 12:01/mi
    Elev Gain: 112 ft


    Week 2 Day 2
    Distance: 3.1 mi
    Moving Time: 39:09
    Avg Pace: 12:37/mi
    Elev Gain: 85 ft


    Week 2 Day 3
    Distance: 3.1 mi
    Moving Time: 38:37
    Avg Pace: 12:26/mi
    Elev Gain: 92 ft


    Week 2 Day 4
    Distance: 7.0 mi
    Moving Time: 1:35:58
    Avg Pace: 13:41/mi
    Elev Gain: 200 ft

    PS, it's great looking at Strava seeing the weekly mileage and time spent running going up slowly, feels good.


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    #1180
    Kellygirl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Great job today (and all week) everyone. Brilliant to see all the activity here and on Strava. I noticed quite a few of you ran in the Phoenix Park - ye must meet up at some stage there. Shame nobody is here in the real capital to join me some day ;)

    Good luck anybody running long runs tomorrow and those doing recovery runs remember to keep them super slow to help the legs recover and get ready for the next week.


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    #1181
    coogy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭coogy


    Kellygirl wrote: »
    Great job today (and all week) everyone. Brilliant to see all the activity here and on Strava. I noticed quite a few of you ran in the Phoenix Park - ye must meet up at some stage there. Shame nobody is here in the real capital to join me some day ;)

    Good luck anybody running long runs tomorrow and those doing recovery runs remember to keep them super slow to help the legs recover and get ready for the next week.

    Im still a little confused about the training logs. Do you need to set up one of your own withkn the training logs thread?


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    #1182
    Kellygirl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    coogy wrote: »
    Im still a little confused about the training logs. Do you need to set up one of your own withkn the training logs thread?

    You don’t have to Coogy - just if you want to keep a diary of your training. Have a look at a few in here. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1139


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    #1183
    ariana`
    Registered Users Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Another week down, well done everyone.

    Here’s what’s ahead for Week 3 of DCM training:

    Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wed|Thurs|Fri|Sat|Sun
    NNH1|rest|3m easy|4m easy|3m easy|rest|5m lsr|cross
    Boards|rest,cross or 3m rec|3m easy|5m with 5 x hill sprints|4m easy|rest,cross or 3m rec|13m lsr|2m rec


    The NNH1 followers have a step back week this week! This means the mileage for the week and specifically on the long run is reduced slightly to let the adaptations from the previous weeks take effect and to leave you feeling a bit fresher ahead of the big increases coming in the weeks ahead! Enjoy the step back week.

    This week introduces the Boards followers to their first set of hill sprints. Do these at least 1 mile into the run and preferably a bit more so you are well warmed up. Have your hill identified in advance, ideally you want it to be pretty steep, think short and sharp. There’s no need to use a watch for these, they are a sprint that is enough, think of the last 50m of a race and that sprint for the line except throw in a hill and make it shorter- roughly 10 seconds, so just count to 10 slowly and you’ll be grand! Focus on form - drive the arms to propel you up the hill, lift the knees high and keep the shoulders relaxed! Walk back or jog very slowly down the hill so that you are fully recovered for the next one - you don’t want to do these tired or will not get the benefit of them. Similar to strides these are not supposed to leave you wrecked!

    I’m off on my holidays tomorrow and planning a bit of digital detox while i’m away but i’m sure you’re all in good hands with Kellygirl and Skyblue!

    Have a good week all :)


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    #1184
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Just a quick comment on the hill sprints. In an ideal world these should be on the type of incline you won't find on a road. The 10/12 second sprint should take a bit of recovering from. It's not just the legs but also the heart. If you are wearing a HR monitor allow your heart rate to return to normal. If not then allow 2/3 minutes between sprints.

    For those of you familiar with running in the PP there is an ideal hill there. At the bottom of the Khyber pass where the bollards are. Stand facing up the road and look over to your right. You'll see a track/ path heading up the slope. The top 2/3rds of that is ideal. For anyone else...make sure it's steep!! :D


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    #1185
    MY BAD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    For anyone else...make sure it's steep!! :D

    I disagree. STRONGLY! I think a 6-8 percent grade perfect, particularly for novice runners. The idea is that it's speed work in disguise. Your pace should be fast but not too fast. If you find yourself in oxygen debt with a rocketing heart rate, you are overdoing it. The hill itself is providing the training stimulus and is more important than the speed at which you ascend. Concentrate on your form and stride more so than anything else.


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    #1186
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »
    I disagree. STRONGLY! I think a 6-8 percent grade perfect, particularly for novice runners. The idea is that it's speed work in disguise. Your pace should be fast but not too fast. If you find yourself in oxygen debt with a rocketing heart rate, you are overdoing it. The hill itself is providing the training stimulus and is more important than the speed at which you ascend. Concentrate on your form and stride more so than anything else.

    By Irish standards is 8% not steep? We're not blessed with to many roads with that kind of gradient. Knockmaroon hill is 8% and I'd call that steep.I was only passing on the advice given to us last year which I assume has been handed down through the years. Here's the suggestion for places to do it....https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057738126&page=70


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    #1187
    Safiri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭Safiri


    Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »
    I disagree. STRONGLY! I think a 6-8 percent grade perfect, particularly for novice runners. The idea is that it's speed work in disguise. Your pace should be fast but not too fast. If you find yourself in oxygen debt with a rocketing heart rate, you are overdoing it. The hill itself is providing the training stimulus and is more important than the speed at which you ascend. Concentrate on your form and stride more so than anything else.

    The wording might have been a bit off but the message was fairly spot on and the pathway up by the kyber falls in between those 6-8% guidelines.

    The idea behind hill sprints is to activate your central nervous system(how fast your brain takes to send a signal to your muscles to contract, the idea behind training this is to speed up this process as the faster the muscles contract, the more force the muscles produce and thus make you faster while strengthening muscles as well. And I disagree with you on these being speedwork in disguise, this is pure unadultarated speedwork which you would see the likes of the very best sprinters in the world trying to develop this system to the max.

    Reps as short as 8-10seconds should be done at near max speed, almost as fast as possible but while making sure you are maintaining good form(90-95%). The speed is just as important as the resistance the hill produces, the speed dictates the stimulus, the hill dictates which muscle groups the stimulus is directed to. The key to these workouts is how you manage the recovery, you shouldn't start the next rep until you are nearly fully recovered(you want to be able to make it to the same point on the hill each time so you may need 2-3 minutes to recover in between).

    Personally, for many here who may be injury prone or not very flexible. I'd be inclined to advise to just try 3-4 for your first session of these as they can be tough on the body at first. In the long, they can be a really good injury prevention as it strengthens up all your muscles but you have to build into them slowly. Shortening the session by 1-2 reps now won't hurt if you need to while just getting used to the strain of them.


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    #1188
    MY BAD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    By Irish standards is 8% not steep?
    Not where I live:D ah no I see your point I read it as very steep and pictured some 10 percent plus grade. I checked my strava I do my hills on a 3.5% grade which I think is more than fine.


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    #1189
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    I think the main point is the recovery. If you sprint up, jog down, and sprint up again, pretty soon you won't be sprinting any more. Take 2-3 minutes between each so you can really drive up the hill each time.


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    #1190
    kittyclaws
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭kittyclaws


    Good morning! Yesterday's long run mostly went to plan :) My pace was a bit off, but it was my first solo lsr and I was running in the mountains, plus the hills were steep, so I'll blame them for now and be more mindful next week as I'll be doing my lsr there again and I'll probably be on my own again. I done 11 miles instead of 10 as I thought the jump from 10 - 13 would be too much - I always struggle when I add milage :o

    Both calves feel fine today, however they're both black and blue from foam rolling them when they were so tight, I didn't even use my full body weight like I'd usually do! I'm starting a Pilates Stretch class this week, I've signed up for 10 classes so I'm looking forward to seeing if they make a difference.

    Have a good week everyone!


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    #1191
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Bit late catching up with this after all the great LSR's at the weekend. Got mine in the bag on Saturday morning, and I'm gonna post a "things I noticed / learned" this week as well:

    1. First couple of miles felt brilliant and I was really looking forward to the run ahead. We'll see how long that lasts! :)

    2. Having said that, about 1 mile in, I realised I had forgotten to bring water with me (or any change to buy water). Complete rookie novice mistake on my part, which I won't be making again. (Tbh, in this weather, I probably should've turned back when I copped it).

    2. Miles 2 & 3 were 20-25 seconds too quick. Consciously tried to slow down which went well, but only for the next 3 miles, because...

    3. ...right on mile 6, someone stopped me for directions. Mildly annoying (particularly as they didn't believe me that the North Road in the Phoenix Park was in fact open). Got a bit of a breather but it felt tough getting back into a rhythm. This resulted in the next 2 miles being ~25-30 seconds too quick again.

    4. I was feeling fine throughout, but I made sure the last 3 miles were back at actual LSR pace. Quite tired (and thirsty) at the end. And also made sure that my recovery run yesterday was very much at recovery pace.

    5. Had some blistering afterwards (sorry!) which I'm putting down to forgetting my 1000 miles socks, which I typically wear for my long runs. Off to buy some more of those today.

    So, overall, some fairly major errors on my part which thankfully didn't cause me any major issues (a lucky escape). But if I learn from all of those mistakes, and don't make them again, it will have been worth it.


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    #1192
    Swashbuckler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    aloooof wrote:
    Bit late catching up with this after all the great LSR's at the weekend. Got mine in the bag on Saturday morning, and I'm gonna post a "things I noticed / learned" this week as well:

    Great idea. I used to do it with my race reports. Definitely helpful for you but just as much the other novices. Fair play.


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    #1193
    coogy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭coogy


    aloooof wrote: »
    Bit late catching up with this after all the great LSR's at the weekend. Got mine in the bag on Saturday morning, and I'm gonna post a "things I noticed / learned" this week as well:

    1. First couple of miles felt brilliant and I was really looking forward to the run ahead. We'll see how long that lasts! :)

    2. Having said that, about 1 mile in, I realised I had forgotten to bring water with me (or any change to buy water). Complete rookie novice mistake on my part, which I won't be making again. (Tbh, in this weather, I probably should've turned back when I copped it).

    2. Miles 2 & 3 were 20-25 seconds too quick. Consciously tried to slow down which went well, but only for the next 3 miles, because...

    3. ...right on mile 6, someone stopped me for directions. Mildly annoying (particularly as they didn't believe me that the North Road in the Phoenix Park was in fact open). Got a bit of a breather but it felt tough getting back into a rhythm. This resulted in the next 2 miles being ~25-30 seconds too quick again.

    4. I was feeling fine throughout, but I made sure the last 3 miles were back at actual LSR pace. And also made sure that my recovery run yesterday was very much at recovery pace.

    5. Had some blistering afterwards (sorry!) which I'm putting down to forgetting my 1000 miles socks, which I typically wear for my long runs. Off to buy some more of those today.

    So, overall, some fairly major errors on my part which thankfully didn't cause me any major issues (a lucky escape). But if I learn from all of those mistakes, and don't make them again, it will have been worth it.


    I have not been bringing any water with me on any of my lsr's so far as I feel I have been well hydrated in the couple of days leading up to the run.
    I really don't like the idea of having to carry water with me while running but I may have no choice when it comes to the longer runs.


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    #1194
    Rossi7
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Rossi7


    One way to avoid having to hold bottles or bring change is to stash a bottle of water along your route the night before a LSR or on your way home from work
    So far I've avoided water on my long runs, but plan on doing the bigger mileage in the Phoenix Park and try loop it having to pass the car with a few bottles stashed in it


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    #1195
    Kellygirl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    I find that when I’m doing a marathon I’m carrying bottles from one station to the next anyway so when my runs are a bit longer or on hot days like now I carry one kid size bottle which I can bin when finished and one of those curved bottles in my flip belt. You get used to it and no stopping then.


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    #1196
    gypsylee
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭gypsylee


    Good Morning. Great to have a week's training complete. Delighted to have run the 7 miles early on Saturday morning without any niggles. I bought some O.R.S rehydration tablets in Boots and took two in water when I got home. No ill effects from them. Started week 3 this morning with a 3 mile run, right on pace. Another one ticked out the plan.

    Have a great week's running everyone.


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    #1197
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Swashbuckler wrote: »
    Great idea. I used to do it with my race reports. Definitely helpful for you but just as much the other novices. Fair play.

    Cheers, I find even in just sitting down to write it, it kinda forces me to think what went well/badly and how I can adopt/prevent that the next time. If anyone else on here gets anything from it, then all the better.
    coogy wrote: »
    I really don't like the idea of having to carry water with me while running but I may have no choice when it comes to the longer runs.

    I'm the same, I'm not a fan carrying a bottle with me. I think I'll try Rossi's idea of stashing a bottle along the way, but if anyone doesn't fancy that, this is the flipbelt (with the curved bottles) that KellyGirl mentioned:

    https://flipbelt.co.uk/products/hydration-belt/


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    #1198
    Hedgehoggy
    Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭Hedgehoggy


    aloooof wrote: »
    Cheers, I find even in just sitting down to write it, it kinda forces me to think what went well/badly and how I can adopt/prevent that the next time. If anyone else on here gets anything from it, then all the better.



    I'm the same, I'm not a fan carrying a bottle with me. I think I'll try Rossi's idea of stashing a bottle along the way, but if anyone doesn't fancy that, this is the flipbelt (with the curved bottles) that KellyGirl mentioned:

    https://flipbelt.co.uk/products/hydration-belt/




    Don't like carrying a bottle with me either - especially when you've drank a bit and it's sloshing in the bottle - the noise annoys me!

    I bring a little kids bottle and stick a put a label so if anyone picks it up they won't throw it in the bin. Have found that one little bottle is enough at the moment.



    Also as a lot of people have been asking about electrolyte tablets - I got a packet of the zero tabs, but I also picked up another packet called salt stick - chewable electrolyte tablets. Actually quite liked the taste and didnt have to mix them with water.


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    #1199
    Safiri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭Safiri


    I do loops that pass my house. Usually pick a 5k route that passes by my door to replicate the water stations bering every 5k on marathon day itself. Only need one stash spot in my front garden for carb drinks, water, gels or whatever I plan to take then. No need for stashing things 10 miles away then and it can also help to mentally break down the race from training experience. If things are getting tough on raceday at 20 or 23 miles, instead of falling into a trap of thinking there's miles to go, you can use it as a mental cue during the race "Only 2 laps to home or one lap to home, How many times have I covered that loop in training" etc. Maybe be a bit early for talking about raceday cues:pac: but just some of the benefits I find from training on a loop beyond the handiness of storing drinks etc.


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    #1200
    coogy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭coogy


    Hill sprints to look forward to on Wednesday. Can any of the Dublin crew recommend somewhere within the Phoenix Park to do these? I have a few options near me in Lucan but I'm trying to get most of my mid-week runs done during the afternoon on my lunch break.

    I would consider the start of Chesterfield Ave. (Parkgate St. entrance) relatively steep but going by what Ariana is recommending, I'm not sure that's going to cut it.
    I suppose there's always that stretch up by the Magazine Fort on Military Rd.......

    Any suggestions welcome!


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    #1201
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Not Phoenix Park, but might be equally easy for you to get to? The War Memorial gardens on the other side of the river. There's a good hill up to Conyngham Road.


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