Madeleine McCann

Creol1 wrote: »

Many thanks for clarifying this and in particular for putting the critical word "off" in italics to make clear that the key point being made is that the McCanns had "paid" the mortgage for their house worth half a million pounds from the fund established to find their missing daughter as opposed to having "paid off" the mortgage for their house worth half a million pounds from the fund established to find their missing daughter.

I sincerely apologise to SusieBlue for ignoring this in my post.

You see, I was concerned that there may be some people out there who might not have been attuned to this Vital Distinction and who might have read the statement that

"They didn't pay off their mortgage using the fund"

as meaning that the McCanns had not used the fund to pay for their mortgage at all!

I merely provided links clarifying that this was not the case in case anyone had been foolish enough to reach that conclusion.

It was you who originally said thank goodness they had their mortgage paid off,to which I replied that they didn’t use the fund to pay it off, if that was what you were implying.

Rather than reply to this, you instead dumped a load of links with hyperbolic fake news headlines such as ‘McCanns use 1m fund to pay off mortgage’ with absolutely no context.

Now you’re pretending you knew that and that was what you meant all along. Ok then :pac:

gozunda wrote: »

The whole cat and mouse game played by the McCanns and the media was mostly destructive imo

The parents courted the press at the earliest opportunity. It was only a matter of time before the the press mob turned on them in search for anything which would sell either traditional or broadcast news stories whether they were made up of fact, half baked truths or wild imaginings.

And I do not accept they did this from a sense of desperation. They reaped what they showed. None of it benefited the victim imo.

The sad part is that Madeleine paid the price . Let down by many and almost forgotten in the frenzy
Poor little mite

SusieBlue wrote: »

Lets go back a bit now. Why are we even discussing this?

Because someone said her parents disposed of her by throwing her in the bin.

So by that logic, we can assume that whoever suggested that is stating what they themselves would do?

I`ve been saying it, not because I believe that`s what happened, but because it`s possible. It was my first contribution to this discussion and I said it because a few people, and I think you were one of them, kept spinning the line that the McCanns couldn`t have done it because they didn`t have the time or the opportunity. Well now you can see that they had and they only needed minutes. If you read my other posts however, you`ll see I`m on the fence about it all and tend not to partake in any of the juvenile bickering that prevails in this discussion.

I have kids. You said that because I`ve proposed this possibility, it must mean that I myself must be capable of dumping my child in a bin. Your logic is warped and twisted and I find your comment offensive. My kids were never abducted because whenever I went out to dinner, I had the good sense to hire a babysitter. I was in Pairc Ui Chaoimh in 88 to see Michael Jackson. At the time he was walking around hand in hand with little boys and most of us thought "God, isn`t he gas? Sure he`s a big child himself". How innocent we all were.

Since then a friend of mine has been sexually assaulted and almost murdered by a predator. A sports coach who supervised me in my youth has been revealed to be a serial sexual abuser of children in his care. Both these sickos were seen as pillars of society in their locality back in the day and are now back out on the streets. We live in a sick world folks and any of you still in the land of fluffy clouds and bunny rabbits who are looking at the McCann case and don`t want to consider the unthinkable a possibility, need to stop deluding yourselves.

tibruit wrote: »

Since then a friend of mine has been sexually assaulted and almost murdered by a predator. A sports coach who supervised me in my youth has been revealed to be a serial sexual abuser of children in his care. Both these sickos were seen as pillars of society in their locality back in the day and are now back out on the streets. We live in a sick world folks and any of you still in the land of fluffy clouds and bunny rabbits who are looking at the McCann case and don`t want to consider the unthinkable a possibility, need to stop deluding yourselves.

It’s for these exact reasons why I personally believe she was abducted. There’s a possible theory that she may have been watched by an organised sex ring and trafficked. What’s “fluffy clouds and rainbows” about that? The world can be a truly depraved place, we don’t even know the half of it. I don’t think anyone is stating the opposite.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It make me think if there was an abducter it had to be a lone wolf ,

Possibly. Still not a nice thought. Far from sunshine and rainbows.

tibruit wrote: »

I have kids. You said that because I`ve proposed this possibility, it must mean that I myself must be capable of dumping my child in a bin. Your logic is warped and twisted and I find your comment offensive.

I know that’s not what you meant, there’s no need to be offended.
I was was explaining the reasons why I don’t think the bin theory is possible, and another poster said I was projecting my own thoughts and feelings onto what the McCanns might do.
I said by that logic, you, as the person who first suggested the possibility, were also projecting what you would do in that situation onto the McCanns.

The point I was making was that none of us are projecting, we’re all simply speculating.
It was interesting how it was only projection when I stated the reasons I didn’t think it was possible.

I wonder is her eye defect something that might be considered special in some cultures/groups? I have no idea but it's certainly something that made her different

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It make me think if there was an abducter it had to be a lone wolf ,

I always found this guys statement was very interesting

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm




,

I’m guessing it’s not something that was noticed as she was sleeping or in the dark.

Ok I'll add some once of thoughts. But I dont really wish to get into reply ping pong tbh. But here goes.

AwareWolf wrote: »

sorry I posted before i finished. The child was collected from the day place at 6 and they went to dinner at 8, so if they killed her where on earth did they put her before raising the alarm a little later that she was missing?

A number of posters here have forwarded the view that they timeline as given by the Tapas7 isn't worth the cover of the Activity book it was scribbled on. Significantly official police independent witness statements appear to blow large gaping holes in it and the testimonies of the group members have so many crazy and more importantly unexplained inconsistencies as to make it largely useless imo.

AwareWolf wrote: »

They are odd alright, no doubt about it, strange reactions, but that doesn't mean they accidentially killed their child and covered it up.

The corally of that is that could have "accidentally killed her and covered it up" . Presently we have 5 main scenarios on the go. Some are more controversial than others tbh.

AwareWolf wrote: »

I just can't see how they did it. After watching the doc on netflix as some one who was not convinced either way - Im thinking they've been through hell and back over this. If they did accidentially kill her then they've suffered, and if they didn't then they're suffering is compounded by the fact that a whole pile of time was wasted investigating them, instead of trying to find the child.

The thing is that no official investigstion has said 'they did it' tbh. The Portuguese police investigation came to the conclusion it was an accidental death. Operation Grange which appears to keep the McCanns off limits to any investigation tbh holds to investigating only a possible abduction afaik. The first three months of the Portuguese investigation also worked on the basis it was an abduction before the behaviour of the parents led the police to believe that the parents may have tried to conceal the accidental death. Shortly after that the parents were made suspects and they up sticks and left Portugal...
Huge amounts of time and money have been wasted by Private Investigators employed by the McCanns and who in the main have turned out to be a big shower of eejits.

AwareWolf wrote: »

Criticisms of the group not having their stories straight as to who checked when - would you if you had a few drinks? (yes i wouldnt leave my kids either like they did, but would I remember who did what after a few drinks?? - NO)

See above

AwareWolf wrote: »

Criticism of how the parents were reacting - they were being coached in case there was an abductor, so you've to act a certain way on camera.... no one knows what advice they were getting in the immediate aftermath - and they weren't experts at this....

There are some interesting professional opinions available on this whether you take them board or otherwise. Its peculiar if they were doing what they were advised regarding acting a certain way on camera - cos they sure seemed to ignore other advice such as releasing and publishing information about the child's eye condition which many believe could have endangered her life if she was still alive. Imo even many years later they still come across as odd. But there you go

AwareWolf wrote: »

Criticism of their life style leaving the kids not giving a toss, wanting a holiday as adults - be under no illusion loads do this.... here in Ireland and the UK....(im not agreeing with it, but I'm saying it used to happen alot)

They may do but it doesnt make it any more excusable one way or the other tbh.

AwareWolf wrote: »

Questions about how the twins continued to sleep with all that was going on in the apartment, that they must have been sedated as they weren't waking etc....if im on holidays with my kids they are just flattened by evening time because of the new routine, holiday air, and so on....i could play the drums in my holiday house at night and they wouldnt hear me....some kids are like that.....mine are sound sleepers since they were born.

It was the parents who first raised the idea the kids had been sedated even though that wasn't communicated to the police until later. The parents had the twins eventually tested months after the disappearance of Madeleine from the apartment in Portugal. Funnily enough nothing was found...

retro:electro wrote: »

I’m guessing it’s not something that was noticed as she was sleeping or in the dark.

And in the cases of missing people,

Police ask for description of the person along with any distinguishing marks on that said person.

IE Birthmarks, scars, tattoo's etc

As in Amber Alerts in the USA

dave699 wrote: »

The body not been found is what gets me.Surely means it was planned. Can't see anyone thinking clearly enough after an accident to get rid of a body in an area they don't know to well.
For me rules the family out. Don't see how they could have managed to get the body hid so well

Not necessarily. The tragic case of Aisling Syms in New Zealand who wandered away is one case in point. A childs body can remain hidden even when an area has been searched.

The other is that someone may just have been 'lucky' or acted out of impulse. Theres been cases of people murdered and disposed in areas where the perpetrator did not know well. Much of it is down to the chance and not making mistakes imo

OwlsZat wrote: »

Your absolutely right about that was at 6am a baker opening up maybe. They were crossing a road and looked like they really didn't want to be caught in his head lights. Must read more into that one.

Have a read of this

Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state.

I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.

I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of.

It had just not crossed my mind that the childs parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.

I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so.

Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children.

The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me.

it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think.

He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.

LINK http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

.

Yvonne Martin appears to want to help the McCanns but they don't want her help. Very strange.

Kate’s take on that:
A middle-aged British woman lady suddenly materialized beside me and introduced herself.
She announced that she was, or had been, a social worker or child protection officer and insisted on showing me her professional papers, including, I think, her Criminal Records Bureau certificate.
She asked me to sit down on a low wall, plonked herself next to me and told me she wanted me to go through everything that had happened the previous night.
She was quite pushy and her manner, her very presence, were making me feel uncomfortable and adding to my distress.

David was standing nearby.
Concerned he took me aside and pointed out that we didn’t know who this woman was or what she was doing there. He reassured me that I wasn’t obliged to speak to her if I didn’t want to. And I didn’t want to.

Whoever she was, and whatever her credential were, it was an inappropriate intrusion.

And something about it, something about her, just didn’t feel right.

I was glad I extricated myself. This woman would pop up several times in the days and months to come and I still don’t really know who she is or what she was trying to achieve”

Can’t say I blame her for being sceptical of a total stranger, and a pushy one at that. What kind of power did Mrs Martin believe she had that could have helped them?

maebee wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but if my daughter was in the hands of an abductor I'd be taking help from whoever was offering it.

It’s all relative I suppose. I can’t say I would be divulging details to a pushy stranger who felt entitled to know everything out of sheer nosiness, and I don’t blame Kate for being cynical in the slightest. She embarked on her mission based solely on her own authority, she wasn’t enlisted by anyone. I think that’s completely unprofessional and strange.

maebee wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but if my daughter was in the hands of an abductor I'd be taking help from whoever was offering it.

The other consideration that as professional Kate should I would have thought welcomed the help of another professional. Especially one who was also British and had established her bonafides as someone in worked in the area of child protection.

Either way I reckon she was correct to warn Kate about speaking to the media imo. Pity she didn't take that advice ...

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A pushy stranger who identified herself with her credentials?

She was a stranger to Kate? She got an off feeling about it and listened to it. She is a social worker, she’s not in the industry of finding missing children.

No doubt if she had accepted her help it would instead be used as a rod to beat them with and the narrative “why were they accepting the help of random strangers who don’t have any experience with finding missing children”, as is par for the course with others they enlisted.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

She was a professional who identified herself, interesting that she recognised David Anthony Payne from the course of her work.

When someone identifies themselves to you for the first time they’re still a stranger. She was a stranger, and Kate decided to decline her pushy and entitled requests. I don’t blame her for that.