Against the head

09-03-2015 10:14pm

bilston wrote: »

I haven't watched it yet but who on earth said that?

Quinny and Sheehan both agreed that we should play more rugby. Quinlan said the Italy and French games were boring.

Sure Sheehan said after the first round that the performances of TOD and Keatley would be putting pressure on the starters. Keatley putting pressure on Sexton.

Sure.

Shelflife · 09-03-2015 10:24pm

Frankie hasn't a clue, all he's interested in talking about are Munster and his clients. One of his first comments at the u 20s a few weeks ago was he would have liked to have seen a few more munster players in the squad.

Far too insulated for my liking.

typhoony · 09-03-2015 10:29pm

a year or 2 ago the ex-munster players on against the head were unashamedly pushing the younger munster players for irish selection, turns out sheahan represents a couple of them, he got called out on that one and now i notice neither of them are doing that as much. O'Gara is a good example of impartial punditry, in fact he said he needed to get away from the pressure cooker of munster rugby as if he stayed he would have been too close to the munster players

did anyone notice how big tom farrell was on the league clip. caught the eye a year or 2 ago at the u20's, future looks bright for leinster backline

09-03-2015 10:33pm

Shelflife wrote: »

Frankie hasn't a clue, all he's interested in talking about are Munster and his clients. One of his first comments at the u 20s a few weeks ago was he would have liked to have seen a few more munster players in the squad.

Far too insulated for my liking.

It is an absolute joke that RTE give him a platform to push this utter ****e. I simply do not watch Against The Head.

phog · 09-03-2015 10:56pm

I feel left out as I've nothing to be outraged at after watching ATH.

bilston · 09-03-2015 11:01pm

Buer wrote: »

Me being facetious.

I genuinely could imagine Frankie coming out with that!

thomond2006 · 09-03-2015 11:25pm

Having any player agents on TV in a position to speak about players is farcical.

phog · 09-03-2015 11:31pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Having any player agents on TV in a position to speak about players is farcical.

As a matter of interest have you ever contacted Sky or RTE or any other broadcaster about this?

thomond2006 · 09-03-2015 11:32pm

phog wrote: »

As a matter of interest have you ever contacted Sky or RTE or any other broadcaster about this?

Someone from RTE on Twitter, yes. Ignored me, not that I blame them. I don't need to contact them either to have the opinion, I simply don't watch when I can avoid it.

This isn't solely aimed at Frankie. Ryan Constable with BBC is just as silly.

09-03-2015 11:33pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Someone from RTE on Twitter, yes. Ignored me, not that I blame them.

This isn't solely aimed at Frankie. Ryan Constable with BBC is just as silly.

The fact Frankie is about the worst pundit on the planet does compound things though.

thomond2006 · 09-03-2015 11:36pm

Shawn Enough Cheek wrote: »

The fact Frankie is about the worst pundit on the planet does compound things though.

He's not in fairness. It's just I can't take him seriously when he talks about Irish rugby/players. He's a public speaker as well as an agent and you can tell, he does speak well IMO. The difference between someone who is an experienced speaker and not is really stark sometimes.

09-03-2015 11:39pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

He's not in fairness. It's just I can't take him seriously when he talks about Irish rugby/players. He's a public speaker as well as an agent and you can tell, he does speak well IMO. The difference between someone who is an experienced speaker and not is really stark sometimes.

I'm not talking about how he speaks, I'm talking about the content. On the bolded - that must make up about 90% of his media work?

phog · 09-03-2015 11:41pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Someone from RTE on Twitter, yes. Ignored me, not that I blame them. I don't need to contact them either to have the opinion, I simply don't watch when I can avoid it.

This isn't solely aimed at Frankie. Ryan Constable with BBC is just as silly.

I just thought if it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you, I'd take the direct route and complain to the broadcasters.

You could start here and look for signatures to a petition to have them removed.

thomond2006 · 09-03-2015 11:44pm

phog wrote: »

I just thought if it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you, I'd take the direct route and complain to the broadcasters.

You could start here and look for signatures to a petition to have them removed.

No I'll do something more effective: not watch!

09-03-2015 11:50pm

phog wrote: »

I just thought if it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you, I'd take the direct route and complain to the broadcasters.

Did you willfully ignore the bit where he did actually complain to the broadcasters or just not read it or what?

phog · 10-03-2015 12:03am

Shawn Enough Cheek wrote: »

Did you willfully ignore the bit where he did actually complain to the broadcasters or just not read it or what?

He said he sent a tweet to somebody on RTE however he mentioned RTE and BBC as two broadcasters and most on here will know that Frankie also appears in Sky.

thomond2006 · 10-03-2015 12:14am

phog wrote: »

He said he sent a tweet to somebody on RTE however he mentioned RTE and BBC as two broadcasters and most on here will know that Frankie also appears in Sky.

I'm not on a vendetta. I just won't watch when I can avoid it.

If people don't think it's a conflict of interest, fine by me.

phog · 10-03-2015 12:31am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm not on a vendetta. I just won't watch when I can avoid it.

If people don't think it's a conflict of interest, fine by me.

I certainly don't see it as a huge conflict of interest, the IRFU know the agents and the players and are hardly going to change an offer to a player based on a MotM award or some highlights piece featured on ATH, Sky or BBC NI

Shelflife · 10-03-2015 1:17am

phog wrote: »

I certainly don't see it as a huge conflict of interest, the IRFU know the agents and the players and are hardly going to change an offer to a player based on a MotM award or some highlights piece featured on ATH, Sky or BBC NI

The Irfu know the score but a lot of viewers may not know that frankie is an agent to certain players. So they are at times getting a load of hyperbole about players who are having an ok game but in frankies eyes they are made out to be world beaters.

Player x is managed by frankie, he has a dire game and it's glossed over, how is that serving the best interests of the viewing public.

And yes I have complained by email to the broadcaster and they never replied.

It's a conflict of interest.

rudiger2.0 · 10-03-2015 2:09am

Even though they weren't fairly insightful, you could hardly accuse them of having a Munster bias tonight.

Granted, I did get bored and stopped watching halfway through. So maybe they were saving the good stuff for the end.

jm08 · 10-03-2015 2:48am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm not on a vendetta. I just won't watch when I can avoid it.

If people don't think it's a conflict of interest, fine by me.

I think Frankie is moving away from talent management (Peter O'Mahony is now with Horizon) and seems to be much more involved in the Pendulum Summit

Stephen Archer is the most high profile player he has on his books now. Others are Ivan Dineen, Johnny Holland, Jason Harris-Wright, Danny Qualter who hardly play pro12.

jm08 · 10-03-2015 2:54am

Shelflife wrote: »

The Irfu know the score but a lot of viewers may not know that frankie is an agent to certain players. So they are at times getting a load of hyperbole about players who are having an ok game but in frankies eyes they are made out to be world beaters.

Player x is managed by frankie, he has a dire game and it's glossed over, how is that serving the best interests of the viewing public.

And yes I have complained by email to the broadcaster and they never replied.

It's a conflict of interest.

Have you complained to Newstalk about Brian O'Driscoll and his involvement with Ikon? (they don't even list on their site who they manage).

hinault · 10-03-2015 3:22am

Daire O'Brien is a dreadful compare.

AndonHandon · 10-03-2015 3:40am

jm08 wrote: »

Have you complained to Newstalk about Brian O'Driscoll and his involvement with Ikon? (they don't even list on their site who they manage).

Who do they manage which creates an issue?

phog · 10-03-2015 8:26am

Shelflife wrote: »

The Irfu know the score but a lot of viewers may not know that frankie is an agent to certain players. So they are at times getting a load of hyperbole about players who are having an ok game but in frankies eyes they are made out to be world beaters.

Player x is managed by frankie, he has a dire game and it's glossed over, how is that serving the best interests of the viewing public.

And yes I have complained by email to the broadcaster and they never replied.

It's a conflict of interest.

The very same can be said for having a player or former player on the panel, they've played with or play with player x who is not having a great game but they gloss over it or highlight one or two things that have gone ok for them.

Wang King · 10-03-2015 8:37am

hinault wrote: »

Daire O'Brien is a dreadful compare.

Depends on who you are comparing him to?

thomond2006 · 10-03-2015 10:09am

phog wrote: »

The very same can be said for having a player or former player on the panel, they've played with or play with player x who is not having a great game but they gloss over it or highlight one or two things that have gone ok for them.

However they aren't being paid by those players.

10-03-2015 10:22am

I don't really mind Frankie Sheehan to be honest. He may have a massive munster bias but is that such a bad thing? He irritates me no more than Shane Horgan does when talking about Leinster players in the Irish set-up. He is just giving his opinion on the circumstances in front of him. They're not robots. At least he can actually articulate himself unlike a certain regular on the show.

10-03-2015 10:25am

phog wrote: »

I certainly don't see it as a huge conflict of interest, the IRFU know the agents and the players and are hardly going to change an offer to a player based on a MotM award or some highlights piece featured on ATH, Sky or BBC NI

Good for you. You're wrong though.

10-03-2015 10:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't really mind Frankie Sheehan to be honest. He may have a massive munster bias but is that such a bad thing? He irritates me no more than Shane Horgan does when talking about Leinster players in the Irish set-up. He is just giving his opinion on the circumstances in front of him. They're not robots. At least he can actually articulate himself unlike a certain regular on the show.

It's much deeper than that. Frankie is employed by the some of guys he's commentating/commenting on in a professional capacity as an agent. Their interests are aligned above and beyond that of Horgan.

Frankie's/Wood's Munster bias, Horgan/BOD's Leisnter bias etc is all very obvious,expected and very normal. That's fine. However, where it gets very murky, very quickly is that Frankie stands to profit from several players' being seen in specific lights etc. That's a pretty much stonewall conflict of interest.

Remember Sheahan giving Wallace MoTM in a game where he struggled? Wallace himself was laughing on the sidelines when it was announced.

phog · 10-03-2015 10:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

It's much deeper than that. Frankie is employed by the some of guys he's commentating/commenting on in a professional capacity as an agent. Their interests are aligned above and beyond that of Horgan.

Remember Sheahan giving Wallace MoTM in a game where he struggled? Wallace himself was laughing on the sidelines when it was announced.

Yeah, I think we all remember that but do you or anyone else think that MotM award added anything to Wally's value when discussing his next contract. Also, that was when... way back 4 or 5 years ago, god we really have to go back in time to dig up something to be outraged at?

Frankie's/Wood's Munster bias, Horgan/BOD's Leisnter bias etc is all very obvious,expected and very normal. That's fine. However, where it gets very murky, very quickly is that Frankie stands to profit from several players' being seen in specific lights etc. That's a pretty much stonewall conflict of interest.

Only if you think the club/union/province that employ the players are complete fools and take account of an agent giving praise or a Motm Award to one of their players during match analysis.

phog · 10-03-2015 10:49am

thomond2006 wrote: »

However they aren't being paid by those players.

Yes, I think we all understand that but what value do you think is added to the player by Frankie saying "he had a great game there" and everyone else thinking the same player was absolutely dire?

10-03-2015 10:50am

So we have a prime example of him acting upon his conflict of interest, but you feel like he doesn't have a huge conflict of interest?

Consider the ERC player of the year award, pretty sure you only qualify for that if you've won a MoTM award. Getting Archer onto the shortlist there would be good for him no?

Of course the material affect he can have on his players' fortunes is limited, but that's like saying that a TMO who's bet their house on the -16 spread doesn't have a huge conflict of interest as they will only have small opportunity to act upon it.

phog · 10-03-2015 10:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

So we have a prime example of him acting upon his conflict of interest, but you feel like he doesn't have a huge conflict of interest?

Consider the ERC player of the year award, pretty sure you only qualify for that if you've won a MoTM award. Getting Archer onto the shortlist there would be good for him no?

Of course the material affect he can have on his players' fortunes is limited, but that's like saying that a TMO who's bet their house on the -16 spread doesn't have a huge conflict of interest as they will only have small opportunity to act upon it.

If you believe that a club/province/union adds any weight to a player getting any award then yes you could take from that there is a contract of interest. However, I believe that a club looking to hire a player will do their own research/scouting on the player and hire him on the basis of what they see him doing rather than listening to a guy on TV talking him up.

Buer · 10-03-2015 11:00am

A player's agent will absolutely try to use MOTM awards as a metric for their performances. They'd be an idiot not to.

A MOTM award would not only boost a player's profile in terms of contract negotiations but also with regards to how marketable and recognisable they are to the public, therefore increasing their value for sponsors, public appearances etc.

thomond2006 · 10-03-2015 11:07am

If I was a player and I knew my agent would be given such positions in the media, I wouldn't exactly be pissed off...

On the other hand, if I was a player and my agent went on the media and slated me (rightly or wrongly) he would have one less client very quickly.

The Pheasant2 · 10-03-2015 11:17am

Wang King wrote: »

Depends on who you are comparing him to?

Not really, he'll still be awful

davegrohl48 · 10-03-2015 11:38am

.ak wrote: »

Unfortunately we just don't have decent media talent in this country. That's not to say we, as Irish people, aren't good at it, quite the contrary, but all the good ones go over seas. Why work for RTE, which imo is a joke shop production, when you can work for BT or BBC or Sky?

For all the stick he gets guys like Craig Doyle are far, far better anchors than McGuirk or O'Brien.

Have you seen the Second Captains show on RTE? I think it's a very good example of doing an entertaining and insightful show on a limited budget. The format seems to relax guests into divulging more than usual.
I find Quinlan too cliched and has zero research or critical thinking done on a lot of what he states. Him thinking that we need to open up and play looser against Wales, crazy that someone would get solid cash in the pocket and come back with that as being insightful.
His questions tend to be things like:
"John you've played in these high pressure games how important is it for the new players to be mentally ready for such an occasion?" The answer to such a question is closed to a Yes, without much room for the answer to go anywhere.
If I remember Eddie O'Sullivan wouldn't entertain such a closed question a few years ago? Think the question was in relation to Ireland winning their first two games, "How important is momentum in the Six nations?" O'Sullivan thought the question ridiculous and went against it basically stating it's a five game tournament, talk of momentum is daft. Think I have that right anyways if my memory serves. A few years ago.

jm08 · 10-03-2015 11:48am

AndonHandon wrote: »

Who do they manage which creates an issue?

I know of Heaslip and Healy (who they show pictures of on their website). They don't list who their clients are.

jm08 · 10-03-2015 11:49am

thomond2006 wrote: »

If I was a player and I knew my agent would be given such positions in the media, I wouldn't exactly be pissed off...

On the other hand, if I was a player and my agent went on the media and slated me (rightly or wrongly) he would have one less client very quickly.

And good pundits like ROG say there is absolutely no need to slate anyone anyway.

jm08 · 10-03-2015 11:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

So we have a prime example of him acting upon his conflict of interest, but you feel like he doesn't have a huge conflict of interest?

Consider the ERC player of the year award, pretty sure you only qualify for that if you've won a MoTM award. Getting Archer onto the shortlist there would be good for him no?

Of course the material affect he can have on his players' fortunes is limited, but that's like saying that a TMO who's bet their house on the -16 spread doesn't have a huge conflict of interest as they will only have small opportunity to act upon it.

Has Frankie ever given Archer a man of the match award?

10-03-2015 12:02pm

jm08 wrote: »

Has Frankie ever given Archer a man of the match award?

Absolutely no idea whatsoever. As if that's in any way important in showing that he has a conflict of interest.

The Wallace example highlights that not only has Frankie a conflict of interest, that he has previous for acting on his conflict of interest.

Cool_CM · 10-03-2015 12:05pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Remember Sheahan giving Wallace MoTM in a game where he struggled? Wallace himself was laughing on the sidelines when it was announced.

Was just about to mention that, fairly farcical...

TommyOM · 10-03-2015 12:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember Sheahan giving Wallace MoTM in a game where he struggled? Wallace himself was laughing on the sidelines when it was announced.

I'm not entirely sure who it was - I think it was Tomas O'Leary - but I remember a game where the player in question had thrown an intercept that led to a try, made a litany of errors and was subbed off early by Munster management. Guess who Frankie gave the MOTM award to?

davegrohl48 · 10-03-2015 12:17pm

TommyOM wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure who it was - I think it was Tomas O'Leary - but I remember a game where the player in question had thrown an intercept that led to a try, made a litany of errors and was subbed off early by Munster management. Guess who Frankie gave the MOTM award to?

Jese that would be a classic if you could dig it out

jm08 · 10-03-2015 12:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely no idea whatsoever. As if that's in any way important in showing that he has a conflict of interest.

The Wallace example highlights that not only has Frankie a conflict of interest, that he has previous for acting on his conflict of interest.

Ireland is a very small place and pretty much everyone has some sort of a conflict of interest. Tony Ward nearly always gives the outhalf of the winning side man of the match - thats a conflict of interest because maybe a forward deserved it more and don't tell would need a financial incentive to talk up some of his close friends. I recall Reggie Corrigan giving some really dodgy man of the match awards against Munster players (anyone but a Munster player).

Players like Tommy Bowe and Rob & Dave Kearney don't get too many MOTM awards, yet they don't suffer from a lack of endorsements / sponsorship opportunities.

I don't particularly like Frankie Sheahan as a commentator (though I think some of his commentary on the scrum is very good), but to say he would talk up one of his clients is just ridiculous. Are we to expect him to be unprofessional enough now to be highly critical of Peter O'Mahony now that POM has apparently dumped Frankie for Horizon.

Tox56 · 10-03-2015 12:33pm

I don't particularly like Frankie Sheahan as a commentator (though I think some of his commentary on the scrum is very good), but to say he would talk up one of his clients is just ridiculous

Are you serious here? That sentence would make a lot more sense if it was sarcastic. Are you actually struggling to believe an agent would talk up one of their clients?

Buer · 10-03-2015 12:35pm

jm08 wrote: »

I don't particularly like Frankie Sheahan as a commentator (though I think some of his commentary on the scrum is very good), but to say he would talk up one of his clients is just ridiculous.

To try and ignore it is more ridiculous (and he's not the only one that does it) and hilariously naive.

This is the guy who, when Munster needed tries at Edinburgh in the HEC and won a penalty with 5 minutes remaining, he started shouting "GO GO GO!!"

POM got MOTM from FS on that day and he then Tweeted stats about POM's performance.

thomond2006 · 10-03-2015 12:38pm

Talking up clients is one of the main responsibilities of an agent.

jm08 · 10-03-2015 12:40pm

TommyOM wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure who it was - I think it was Tomas O'Leary - but I remember a game where the player in question had thrown an intercept that led to a try, made a litany of errors and was subbed off early by Munster management. Guess who Frankie gave the MOTM award to?

Tomas O'Leary isn't a client of Frankies' now. If he was then and has since left, it would seem TOL or (whoever) didn't rate his efforts much.

Frankie's client list:
Stephen Archer
Cian Bohane
Danny Qualter
Ian Nagle
Ivan Dineen
Johnny Holland
James Cronin
Jason Harris-Wright
Ryan Murphy
Rory Scannell

All seem to be young lads just coming through. I wouldn't think he is making a lot of money out of them.

Against the head

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