Against the head

My name is Mud · 19-11-2012 9:00pm #1

Just had to post this.

Alan Quinlan on against the head tonight. Referring to Argentina...

..."they swarm all over your balls"

Fantastic!

connemara man · 19-11-2012 9:06pm

Heard that brilliant!

fitz · 19-11-2012 10:12pm

Frankie looked completely shambolic...clean yourself up a bit dude, it's national TV ffs...
Quinnie, while I don't always agree with him, is one of my favourite Irish pundits. Talks sense.
Still tends to guard what he's saying a bit with regards Kidney, but otherwise, very good read on the game.

PhatPiggins · 19-11-2012 10:52pm

fitz wrote: »

Frankie looked completely shambolic...clean yourself up a bit dude, it's national TV ffs...

He's appearance I could care less but his opinion on Argentina made it fairly clear he hadn't seen them play since the 2007 WC.

yosser hughes · 19-11-2012 10:58pm

Jackman is streets ahead of them both with regard actual analysis. I find Quinny to be full of clichés and bland to be honest.I loved him as a player. Frankie,I have very little time for. He's too involved as a players agent to be truly honest.

danthefan · 19-11-2012 11:26pm

[QUOTE=yosser hughes;81832689]Jackman is streets ahead of them both with regard actual analysis. I find Quinny to be full of clichés and bland to be honest.I loved him as a player. Frankie,I have very little time for. He's too involved as a players agent to be truly honest.[/QUOTE]

Possibly because he's coaching. If he was as poor at reading the game as some of the other pundits he'd be out of a job.

CatFromHue · 19-11-2012 11:49pm

For me you can't talk about Argentina without talking about Lobbe and Leguizamon and they didn't. They are such good players and so important to Argentina, in many ways if you stop them you stop Argentina.

Against Wales combined they carried for 104m, had 1 clean break, beat 6 defenders, and had 2 offloads (all from ESPN scrum). Their stats were not as impressive but still excellent against France.

Then there is also the winger Imhoff who will definitely come into Kidney's mind when he's picking the Irish wings.

The presenter of the show is quite good and it's also good to see highlights of the Ulster Bank league too.

remwhite · 20-11-2012 12:11am

CatFromHue wrote: »

For me you can't talk about Argentina without talking about Lobbe and Leguizamon and they didn't. They are such good players and so important to Argentina, in many ways if you stop them you stop Argentina.

Against Wales combined they carried for 104m, had 1 clean break, beat 6 defenders, and had 2 offloads (all from ESPN scrum). Their stats were not as impressive but still excellent against France.

Then there is also the winger Imhoff who will definitely come into Kidney's mind when he's picking the Irish wings.

The presenter of the show is quite good and it's also good to see highlights of the Ulster Bank league too.

ESPN stats are always way off. I reckon they just guestimate them. 104 meters for the entire team by any logic has to be inaccurate.

PhatPiggins · 20-11-2012 12:12am

danthefan wrote: »

Possibly because he's coaching. If he was as poor at reading the game as some of the other pundits he'd be out of a job.

Conor O'Shea being the obvious reinforcement to that point

Shelflife · 20-11-2012 12:14am

Jackman is very astute and seems to be a highly regarded coach already in his new career.

Quinlan seems very likeable and comes across very well and makes some very good points.

Frankie just seems to have an agenda and therefore you cant take his comments at face value, hes hardly going to criticise his own customers and hes not going to big up a player if he is in direct competition with one of his players either.

Theres a serious conflict of interest there and one to be wary of if you play the MOM markets.

Joanne Cantwell makes a really job of fronting the show and comes across as very knowledgable and uses the guests well.

CatFromHue · 20-11-2012 12:25am

remwhite wrote: »

ESPN stats are always way off. I reckon they just guestimate them. 104 meters for the entire team by any logic has to be inaccurate.

No it was 104m between Lobbe (55m) and Leguizamon (49m). Granted ESPN's stats mightn't be bang on but after watching the Arg Wal game i'd find it hard to dismiss them.

wicklowwonder · 20-11-2012 11:39am

Surely RTE, Newstalk etc. should not use Sheenan as a pundit? His day job is representing players. He is not going to call for POM for example to be dropped for Ian Henderson. Surely the stations should find somebody else... an Ulster man would have made that panel complete instead of Frankie.

jamiedav2011 · 20-11-2012 11:44am

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Surely RTE, Newstalk etc. should not use Sheenan as a pundit? His day job is representing players. He is not going to call for POM for example to be dropped for Ian Henderson. Surely the stations should find somebody else... an Ulster man would have made that panel complete instead of Frankie.

Really enjoyed Trevor Hogan on Newstalk a few times recently.
We have the analysists out there in the likes of Quinlan, Emmet Byrne, Jackman, COS, Shaggy and even Franno, yet RTE persist with the likes of Hook, Sheahan, Thornley et al.

I also think Brendan Fanning is an excellent analyst.

jm08 · 20-11-2012 12:08pm

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Surely RTE, Newstalk etc. should not use Sheenan as a pundit? His day job is representing players. He is not going to call for POM for example to be dropped for Ian Henderson. Surely the stations should find somebody else... an Ulster man would have made that panel complete instead of Frankie.

I don't think I've ever heard Conor O'Shea, Shane Horgan or Alan Quinlan calling for anyone to be dropped.

Only Hook does that.

By the way, Ryan Constable must find it very difficult when commentating since he represents about 30 Irish based players!

bilston · 20-11-2012 12:14pm

jm08 wrote: »

I don't think I've ever heard Conor O'Shea, Shane Horgan or Alan Quinlan calling for anyone to be dropped.

Only Hook does that.

By the way, Ryan Constable must find it very difficult when commentating since he represents about 30 Irish based players!

When was the last time Ryan Constable commentated on an Ireland game?

buck65 · 20-11-2012 12:19pm

Yeah Frankie dresses v poorly, looks a bit like Johnny Vegas. Quinny is interesting and Jackman is good, Feel the nature of the programme doesn't allow much analysis.
Cantwell is growing on me!

thomond2006 · 20-11-2012 12:25pm

Is Against the Head gone again after the AIs? If Wales has a weekly rugby show Ireland should! It would do the AIL no harm to have more TV exposure, plus I really appreciated the feature they did on the Leinster-Munster A interpro.

jm08 · 20-11-2012 12:28pm

bilston wrote: »

When was the last time Ryan Constable commentated on an Ireland game?

I've heard him commentating on Ulster games (including provincial games).
He represents nearly the whole of the Ulster squad along with Felix Jones among others.

Must be interesting for him when Munster play Ulster as he represents Niall Ronan & Chris Henry.

jamiedav2011 · 20-11-2012 12:40pm

Constable is shocking on BBCNI any time I've seen him. Generally that whole set up is, particularly that shocking commentator who's name escapes me.

Sheahan lost all credibility when he was starting off a few years back with his IT blog. All sorts of idiotic claims and selections, mainly around old selections.

I hear he's a big Stephen Archer fan too for some reason...

Foxtrol · 20-11-2012 12:47pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Constable is shocking on BBCNI any time I've seen him. Generally that whole set up is, particularly that shocking commentator who's name escapes me.

Sheahan lost all credibility when he was starting off a few years back with his IT blog. All sorts of idiotic claims and selections, mainly around old selections.

I hear he's a big Stephen Archer fan too for some reason...

Horan can cover tighthead internationally because he packed down there in Munster training a few times in the past is my personal Frankie favourite from those blogs.

jamiedav2011 · 20-11-2012 1:11pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Horan can cover tighthead internationally because he packed down there in Munster training a few times in the past is my personal Frankie favourite from those blogs.

Yep that was a cracker alright!

jm08 · 20-11-2012 1:45pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Horan can cover tighthead internationally because he packed down there in Munster training a few times in the past is my personal Frankie favourite from those blogs.

Surely a bit more than that? Up to 2008 (I think) there were only 22 man match-day squads, so most props would have to do a bit of training to cover both sides up to then.

smurphy29 · 20-11-2012 1:59pm

Yes, that blog was terrible, embarrassing. I think he had John Hayes down as loosehead cover too. He wanted Hayes to start (in 2010 Six Nations ahead of Ross!) and Ross could be on the bench as 'insurance' if Hayes fell over. Someone put it to him that we'd have no cover for loosie under that mad scenario and he said Hayes could do it. Deary me.

Gargled · 20-11-2012 4:30pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Against the Head gone again after the AIs? If Wales has a weekly rugby show Ireland should! It would do the AIL no harm to have more TV exposure, plus I really appreciated the feature they did on the Leinster-Munster A interpro.

Probably going after the tests alright. Bit of a joke that we can't put out a weekly AIL/pro 12 review show.

Personally I think the current show is a bit boring and tough to watch at times. Too much chat, not enough clips or hands on analysis. Even the area 22 show had the drop kick challenge. They should spend some time watching the Rugby Club in Australia (Not England!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=86Msq015iY4

buck65 · 20-11-2012 4:45pm

smurphy29 wrote: »

Yes, that blog was terrible, embarrassing. I think he had John Hayes down as loosehead cover too. He wanted Hayes to start (in 2010 Six Nations ahead of Ross!) and Ross could be on the bench as 'insurance' if Hayes fell over. Someone put it to him that we'd have no cover for loosie under that mad scenario and he said Hayes could do it. Deary me.

Hayes played looselead before moving over ...as he got destroyed !! but still he could have done it for maybe last 5 mins!?

backgreen · 20-11-2012 5:37pm

any opinions on frankies suggestion of a club super/league ?

Gargled · 20-11-2012 5:41pm

backgreen wrote: »

any opinions on frankies suggestion of a club super/league ?

That's what they tried to do by splitting up the AIL and having an 8 team 1A and 1B. The policy on contracted players had the opposite effect though.

Theres also the issue of the provinces releasing players on academies and A teams. If it was to happen it needs public support too- match attendances, media coverage

Digifriendly · 21-11-2012 2:02pm

This programme should show highlights from the other AI's. Still haven't seen any action from France vs Argentina which sounded like a very good game (36-22 to France).

Beery Eyed · 21-11-2012 6:24pm

backgreen wrote: »

any opinions on frankies suggestion of a club super/league ?

This was roughly the idea behind Division 1A originally (since it was always hoped that the development of the professional game could be done in tandem with the club game). The idea was to have the 10 best clubs stacked with all of the best players competing in a condensed, high level league. As a result it has somewhat improved the standard of the league, which was otherwise in terminal decline.

However it hasn't been fully successful and the restrictions brought in about the number of contracted players haven’t helped. The quality is still too diluted (There are 52 clubs in the various Senior leagues: 10 in 1A & 1B, 16 in 2A & 2B) and therefore the standard remains too far below provincial level, i.e. a player excelling in the AIL will still struggle to step up to provincial level. There have been the very odd exceptions to this of course, but the ideal scenario is that it becomes the norm for a player to get provincial gametime if he stands out at the level directly below.

In my opinion the clubs aren't the way forward for the professional game in Ireland. As somebody who has played senior & junior club rugby for many years I do think that there is a significant place within the overall national setup for clubs, but not as the step-up to the provincial, professional game. As I see it, clubs should be primarily run for what they always were – community based, amateur organisations.

What is required for the professional game is another, higher level of competition along the lines of what has been started with the British & Irish cup and Interprovincial ‘A’ series. These teams are comprised of ambitious young professional & academy players, where the aim is to improve and impress so that they can step up to a higher level. The standard of games is higher and the style is also vastly different to AIL also, not least because there is no threat of relegation or the “win at all costs” attitude.

Expanding on this idea is the way forward for the professional game in my opinion, and judging by the way the IRFU and the provinces have increased the number of these games it seems that they also view it that way. In this scenario the clubs remain relevant in their own respect, and perhaps might find it as an improvement.

CatFromHue · 21-11-2012 6:27pm

I have to say when Sheehan started talking about the UBL and the contracted player restrictions all I could think of was his Cork Con background and how they would have so many contracted players!

Beery Eyed · 22-11-2012 5:55am

True, he even mentioned it at one stage, although it was in the context of Belvo beating them in the final a couple of years ago.

That "stacking" of contracted players with a handful of clubs was the idea behind the new league setup though. It was meant to condense it so that the standard would be higher. They then changed it completely by restricting the amount of contracted players who could be involved at each club, in order to make it more "fair" for all clubs. It was a poor decision

Hagz · 26-11-2012 8:49pm

I don't think I've ever heard such a cacophony of sh*te as I just heard from Hugh Cahill as he reviewed the Pro12 highlights. Good lord.

jamiedav2011 · 26-11-2012 8:52pm

Hagz wrote: »

I don't think I've ever heard such a cacophony of sh*te as I just heard from Hugh Cahill as he reviewed the Pro12 highlights. Good lord.

Thank god someone else heard it.

Quint2010 · 26-11-2012 8:55pm

Quinlan pushing ROG for The Lions. Is it the 1st April?..

Tox56 · 26-11-2012 8:55pm

Hagz wrote: »

I don't think I've ever heard such a cacophony of sh*te as I just heard from Hugh Cahill as he reviewed the Pro12 highlights. Good lord.

What did he say?

.ak · 26-11-2012 8:58pm

Hahahah. That was gas. Frankie's back three, Gilroy Ashton and Kearney, with BOD at 12 and Tuilagi at 13.

Hooker's pick the daftest teams!

duckysauce · 26-11-2012 8:59pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Quinlan pushing ROG for The Lions. Is it the 1st April?..

Gatland would have anyone but ROG.

.ak · 26-11-2012 9:01pm

Interesting that all 3 agreed on how ponderous and slow Murray has been up until the Argentina match. It's frustrating that everyone, even Frankie Sheehan released we were playing like dinosaurs and it's taken the best part of 2 years to play to our strength again. You've got to think if everyone outside of the camp are thinking that, what were thinking inside it? Or what are they still thinking? i.e; is this a new dawn etc., etc.

Hagz · 26-11-2012 9:07pm

Tox56 wrote: »

What did he say?

Too much.....

Giving out to a Connacht player for tackling with their knees or something. Called Peter Nelson Michael Allen and said something like 'Red heads have all the looks' and then gave a wit too whistle. Said something about Ian Madigan having a conversation with the rugby ball because the match was so boring, so boring that scientists are using it as a cure for insomnia. I'm sure there's more but I feel my braincells dying off as I try and recount it.

.ak · 26-11-2012 9:10pm

Hagz wrote: »

Too much.....

Giving out to a Connacht player for tackling with their knees or something. Called Peter Nelson Michael Allen and said something like 'Red heads have all the looks' and then gave a wit too whistle. Said something about Ian Madigan having a conversation with the rugby ball because the match was so boring, so boring that scientists are using it as a cure for insomnia. I'm sure there's more but I feel my braincells dying off as I try and recount it.

Said something about the TMO for the Ulster game being Declan Kidney's BFF.

.ak · 26-11-2012 9:12pm

Actually the whole Pro12 bit is shocking. Okay, so there was no scores, so why not talk about some of the interesting points in the games. Like, how did SOB play at 8? Why were the Munster scrums malfunctioning? Who looked good for Connacht? The tales of the match etc., etc.

Trying far too hard to imitate the awful Fox 'plays of the week' for S15.

CatFromHue · 26-11-2012 10:48pm

.ak wrote: »

Trying far too hard to imitate the awful Fox 'plays of the week' for S15.

Are those the ones on Rugbydump cos I quite like them :eek:

.ak · 26-11-2012 11:23pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Are those the ones on Rugbydump cos I quite like them :eek:

Cringe!! :eek:

PhatPiggins · 27-11-2012 1:11am

.ak wrote: »

Hahahah. That was gas. Frankie's back three, Gilroy Ashton and Kearney, with BOD at 12 and Tuilagi at 13.

Hooker's pick the daftest teams!

Only 8 Irish players in their Lions XV

. I'm appalled that as defending Grand Slam Champions and WC semi finalists that we don't have greater representation...............oh wait

Sinbad_NI · 27-11-2012 8:15am

Agree, thought the discussions pretty lame for the most part just giving us the usual tripe without any interesting analysis.

phog · 27-11-2012 8:31am

.ak wrote: »

Hahahah. That was gas. Frankie's back three, Gilroy Ashton and Kearney, with BOD at 12 and Tuilagi at 13.

Hooker's pick the daftest teams!

I think you're wronging Frankie, he had to introduce it but the "Lions Team" was the panels' team.

27-11-2012 9:58am

Nice - this is available for ex-pats

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/355038/

.ak · 27-11-2012 11:54am

phog wrote: »

I think you're wronging Frankie, he had to introduce it but the "Lions Team" was the panels' team.

Really? I thought each pundit got to pick their section. Hence when Mal picked Rees the other two didn't seem to agree.

jm08 · 27-11-2012 12:04pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Quinlan pushing ROG for The Lions. Is it the 1st April?..

The context was that all the outhalfs (bar Sexton) were fairly rubbish and that Wilkinson & ROG had a good chance as any to go because of their experience and capability to lead a midweek team.

.ak · 27-11-2012 12:06pm

jm08 wrote: »

The context was that all the outhalfs (bar Sexton) were fairly rubbish and that Wilkinson & ROG had a good chance as any to go because of their experience and capability to lead a midweek team.

Which is still a load of rubbish.

Wilko maybe in that context.... ROG will offer nothing but being an older lad.

thomond2006 · 27-11-2012 12:11pm

jm08 wrote: »

The context was that all the outhalfs (bar Sexton) were fairly rubbish and that Wilkinson & ROG had a good chance as any to go because of their experience and capability to lead a midweek team.

There's no such thing as a midweek team anymore, there's only one 'midweek' game during the tests. The games before the tests will be used to decide on the test team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_British_and_Irish_Lions_tour_to_Australia

Against the head

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