soild fuel stove advise

cubix · 18-10-2010 7:33pm

I think SS is saying you need a tight fit between your stove flu & clay/chimmney flu to get the best out of it, heat & efficiency wise

Dilbert75 · 18-10-2010 8:34pm

cubix wrote: »

I think SS is saying you need a tight fit between your stove flu & clay/chimmney flu to get the best out of it, heat & efficiency wise

I don't think that's what he means at all. I'm pretty sure he's advising you to keep it to 5" the whole way up, i.e. line the flue with a flexi liner and insulate with vermiculite.

sooty_soupy · 19-10-2010 11:23pm

buttonsc wrote: »

I have the 5" flue, it in turn has to connect to an 8" clay liner hence the need of a reducer.
You have lost me with the reference to the boy racer?????? Makes no sense at all.

I know that putting a bloody big wide exhaust on a Renault Clio 1.2 litre engine tends to cause problems with fuel consumption if that helps explain it. Dilbert75 hit the nail on the head. You need to read the regulations and you will find that you should reduce the diameter of the flue to suit the appliance you are fitting...therefore fitting a stove with a 5" flue outlet, should have the same diameter of flue the entire run of the chimney, unless there are bends or you plan to burn coal, in which case you need to upsize to 6", but a stainless steel lining system with a backfill of insulation will encourage flue gases to remain stable, even though the stove is designed to burn slow. The clay liner are fine for an open fire where the flue gas temperatures are always very high, but a stove could cause a world of problems if you are not careful.

Hope this makes sense.

Best regards

David

sooty_soupy · 19-10-2010 11:26pm

gsxr1 wrote: »

Gings home value always had them at that price. Thats where I got mine 2 years ago at that same price.

http://www.gings.ie/stanley%20offers.htm#stoves

had it lit last night for the first time since winter.

I need to reinstall it. I have cracked fire cement around the spigot at the rear. Possible leek . Although the Co2 detector in the room cant detect it even when held close.

I would rather repair now when is not that cold yet.

I would recommend the little stove. It has well payed for itself by now. great investment.

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Please God tell me this is not your stove in the image.

sooty_soupy · 19-10-2010 11:27pm

Dilbert75 wrote: »

I don't think that's what he means at all. I'm pretty sure he's advising you to keep it to 5" the whole way up, i.e. line the flue with a flexi liner and insulate with vermiculite.

Well done sir...
You can go top of the class.

;-}

sooty_soupy · 19-10-2010 11:33pm

buttonsc wrote: »

Waterford Stanley are having their "Heat Week Promotion 16th to 25th October " and have €100 off an Oísin Stove now €399,check their site for stockists. The Oísin stove should suit your needs.

Not a bad price, but for the long term, buy something more expensive that is cheaper to run on fuel and will give you a reasonable life expectancy. Charnwood, Morso, Jotul, Clearview to name but a few are worthy contenders, as they are not cast in China with reconstituted scrap metal...think about how long a grate lasts in an open fire before you have to replace it and you will get the idea.

gsxr1 · 20-10-2010 8:59pm

yes it is sooty soup. And has been for the last 2 years, as you well know.

Please spare me the harth regulation . Been two years and not a coal has fallen.

By the way. My grate is as good as new. Its far from scrap metal. I do know you sell them . You have made that blatantly obvious in your sales pitches on earlier posts.

Dilbert75 · 20-10-2010 9:05pm

sooty_soupy wrote: »

Please God tell me this is not your stove in the image.

OK - I'm curious though - what can you see wrong from this picture?

gsxr1 · 20-10-2010 9:35pm

Dilbert75 wrote: »

OK - I'm curious though - what can you see wrong from this picture?

I dont have 300mm in front. Everything else you see in that pic is bang on within regs.

I have 100mm. Which is fine unless you decide to fill you stove to the throat with coal.

Dilbert75 · 20-10-2010 9:49pm

Hmmm - thought there was going to be a more serious breach than that...

Agent_47 · 20-10-2010 9:50pm

gsxr1 wrote: »

I dont have 300mm in front. Everything else you see in that pic is bang on within regs.

I have 100mm. Which is fine unless you decide to fill you stove to the throat with coal.

Looks no different to mine except I put a Fire sheet at the rear with the pipe going through. Had an Oisin, upgraded to a Morso 1412 Squirrel with a bigger box. Happy days

paddy147 · 20-10-2010 9:51pm

gsxr1 wrote: »

I dont have 300mm in front. Everything else you see in that pic is bang on within regs.

I have 100mm. Which is fine unless you decide to fill you stove to the throat with coal.

yeah,its not like you will have it so far stoked up like you had to power a steam engine ot the likes of the titanic or lucitania with it.

Nowt wrong with your setup there,looks well.:)

sooty_soupy · 21-10-2010 12:38pm

Lets just hope your insurance company and fire inspection officer sees it as OK if the house burns to the ground, since you have ignored even the most basic of rules which is follow manufacturers instructions, let alone building regs.

(FROM STANLEY WEBSITE FOR INSTALLATION)

FLOOR PROTECTION
When installing this heater on a combustible floor , a
floor protector, consisting of a layer of non-combustible
material at least 3/8” thick or 1/4” thick covered
with 1/8” sheet metal is required to cover the
area under the heater and extend to at least 18” at
the front and 8” to the sides and rear. This will provide
protection from sparks and embers which may
fall out from the door when stoking or fuelling.

And the clearance to the combustible mantle "Mantle clearance 25” 635mm"

And the whole document is here http://www.waterfordstanley.com/SiteImages/Site_131/PDF/OisinSF.pdf

You know what, it's not my house so if you think it is safe..then it must be. Keep safe.

sooty_soupy · 21-10-2010 12:53pm

It's also worth noting that even Stanley, in one of the diagrams for the Oisin, which is what I am referring too, but would expect the others to the same under the installation pages show the stove vented from the back with a t section, which is what I have repeatedly said in these forums, and it seems as though they are showing the flue being the same diameter all the way up through the chimney and have mentioned stainless steel.....perhaps before gsxr1 questions me for the advice I have given freely, he should refer to the manufacturer and QUESTION why they are agreeing with me.

Do you think I am typing this advice for the good of my health..especially when gsxr1 has already bought his stove stove. The issue I have is that if anyone does the same as he has and burns their house down because they have followed incorrect advice from a forum user rather than what registered solid fuel technicians and manufacturers state, then I would feel that the concept of the forum has failed. I have no doubt that it open up healthy debate, but if advice is blatently dangerous, then it needs to be brought to the attention of the public.

sooty_soupy · 21-10-2010 12:57pm

And a final GEM found on STANLEY'S website for installation and I quote for the purposes of all who have continually questioned me.

"If connecting to an existing chimney with a flue
diameter of more that 6” it is necessary to line the
flue using a suitable stainless steel flue liner."

I await the response on a public forum from gsxr1 and others.

gsxr1 · 21-10-2010 6:37pm

sooty_soupy wrote: »

And a final GEM found on STANLEY'S website for installation and I quote for the purposes of all who have continually questioned me.

"If connecting to an existing chimney with a flue
diameter of more that 6” it is necessary to line the
flue using a suitable stainless steel flue liner."

I await the response on a public forum from gsxr1 and others.

And you just happen to sell them, yeah. :rolleyes:

sooty_soupy · 21-10-2010 6:47pm

gsxr1 wrote: »

yes it is sooty soup. And has been for the last 2 years, as you well know.

Please spare me the harth regulation . Been two years and not a coal has fallen.

By the way. My grate is as good as new. Its far from scrap metal. I do know you sell them . You have made that blatantly obvious in your sales pitches on earlier posts.

Never had seen the photos of the finished article though. And no, I don't sell Stanley stoves, and I beg to differ about the scrap metal. It will have been something else before it was your grate I can assure you, as is most "cast iron" products nowadays.

sooty_soupy · 21-10-2010 7:01pm

gsxr1 wrote: »

And you just happen to sell them, yeah. :rolleyes:

Wouldn't fit a stove without a liner...simple as that, as I have repeatedly said within this forum, even though people have questioned my motives. I would walk away from projects quicker than do a half a job, as my reputation as Chariman of the NIACS, instructor and advisor to building control is worth more than any half hearted effort to "throw" a stove into a fireplace as an after thought.

I, along with many other companies, sell flue, so rolling yours eyes is perplexing to say the least.

I'm not goint to apologise for pointing out that your choice to blatantly ignore manufacturers instructions, along with building and fire regulations is careless to say the least. Being boastful about getting away with such a gamble with your property and the well being of the occupants of the home, does not make it safe practice, nor should it be assumed that because you have got away with it, the next punter will be as lucky, if they follow your tainted advice.

oleras · 22-10-2010 6:03pm

I will be getting one of these next week, not sure which one to pick really, anyone have any of these installed and would you recomend something else maybe ?

Stovax Huntington 28

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Nester Martin s23

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Franco Belge savoy MK II

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I really like the look of the savoy with its large glass front, and >80% effeciency, this is winning i think at the moment.

gsxr1 · 22-10-2010 11:17pm

sooty_soupy wrote: »

Wouldn't fit a stove without a liner...simple as that, as I have repeatedly said within this forum, even though people have questioned my motives. I would walk away from projects quicker than do a half a job, as my reputation as Chariman of the NIACS, instructor and advisor to building control is worth more than any half hearted effort to "throw" a stove into a fireplace as an after thought.

I, along with many other companies, sell flue, so rolling yours eyes is perplexing to say the least.

I'm not goint to apologise for pointing out that your choice to blatantly ignore manufacturers instructions, along with building and fire regulations is careless to say the least. Being boastful about getting away with such a gamble with your property and the well being of the occupants of the home, does not make it safe practice, nor should it be assumed that because you have got away with it, the next punter will be as lucky, if they follow your tainted advice.

I get mine cleaned regularly. There has been none of the build up of creosote that you threatened will happen in my flu. Its minimal dirty with each clean.
My harth has not 18" in front . If everyone that fitted a stove had to put 18" of marble(or metal) in front of there stoves then you would not sell many. .
How can Building regs suggest less for an open fire than a closed stove. Stanley are playing that one well safe . If you are telling me that every stove you ever sold or fitted had 18" in front then I would have big doubts on the truth of your posts.

I am not boasting or advising(in fact the opposite) and know my set up does not comply , which will be remedied when rip off irish suppliers can come up with a realistic price for a bit of thin stainless or steel pipe. Im finding UK prices a whole lot easier to take than Irish prices. Delivered to the north.

I do know I need to line my new clay liners. AS SAID several times in the thread. And will.

When are you guys going to realize that normal people dont have 1000s+ to spend on stoves and flu systems.

For everyone else.

I dont recommend using clay flu adapters as there has been a few cases where it has been proved unsafe due to Creosote deposits and bad adapter quality .

I do recommend the little oisin . Mine is working great for years and no where near the bad quality as one person has suggested on here. No matter what country it was cast in. It is far from scrap metal. And does have a warranty .

Dilbert75 · 23-10-2010 11:21am

So, in summary, Sooty is pointing out that gsxr1's stove is not installed fully by the book. gsxr1 is acknowledging that but also the reality that its very expensive to install a stove properly and by the book.

That a fair summary? Not many of the hardware shops who sell stoves seem to be telling people that.

gsxr1 · 23-10-2010 12:07pm

Dilbert75 wrote: »

So, in summary, Sooty is pointing out that gsxr1's stove is not installed fully by the book. gsxr1 is acknowledging that but also the reality that its very expensive to install a stove properly and by the book.

That a fair summary? Not many of the hardware shops who sell stoves seem to be telling people that.

i guess that sums it up perfectly.

I have plans to remove the metal back plate and make a hole big enough to fit the stove into , thus the elimination of two 45 degree angles on the flu and bringing the harth clearance in to spec.

I am also trying to source the cheapest price on the specified flu linner.

Although I can do all the work myself it is still going to cost a small fortune.

until then I will be keeping a good eye as I always have on the lit stove.

Sooty. I apologize for my stern reaction to your criticism . I do understand you are only trying to give expert advise.
now . could you sell me a half price liner please:D

paddy147 · 23-10-2010 7:26pm

gsxr1 wrote: »

i guess that sums it up perfectly.

I have plans to remove the metal back plate and make a hole big enough to fit the stove into , thus the elimination of two 45 degree angles on the flu and bringing the harth clearance in to spec.

I am also trying to source the cheapest price on the specified flu linner.

Although I can do all the work myself it is still going to cost a small fortune.

until then I will be keeping a good eye as I always have on the lit stove.

Sooty. I apologize for my stern reaction to your criticism . I do understand you are only trying to give expert advise.
now . could you sell me a half price liner please:D

Excel Industries,Coolmine Ind Estate,Blanchardstown.

I got 10 meters of 6 inch wide twin wall stainless steel flexi flue liner from them,for feck all money.:D

leojake · 24-10-2010 12:49pm

hi i got a price off 800 euros for a aran stove + 9 metres of liner all i need is somebody to install it

Dilbert75 · 24-10-2010 3:31pm

don't know your location but try www.stovefit.com. Haven't used him yet - very likely will do - but he seems ok from my dealings with him and works nationwide.

herlip · 08-11-2010 12:51am

Currently in the design phase of a new build and looking for info about the stove and flue.
The architect has design the house to one chimney stack in the center of the house which looks good. The problem we have is that we want to put a stove into another room which is roughly 3 meters away from the chimney stack.

Is it possible to the run the flue out of the of the room and turn it 90dg towards the chimney stack?

good idea/bad idea?

demanufactured · 09-11-2010 12:19am

herlip wrote: »

Currently in the design phase of a new build and looking for info about the stove and flue.
The architect has design the house to one chimney stack in the center of the house which looks good. The problem we have is that we want to put a stove into another room which is roughly 3 meters away from the chimney stack.

Is it possible to the run the flue out of the of the room and turn it 90dg towards the chimney stack?

good idea/bad idea?

bad bad idea

sooty_soupy · 09-11-2010 2:29pm

kodak wrote: »

Hi,

I got my flue off mi flues in summer hill. They will quote you on flue if you send them a list of flue parts. I think they will also design it for you, if you need it.

Perhaps you should look at Doherty FLues in the UK. http://www.docherty.co.uk/#Vitmaster

They are very good products. Not sure about a stockist here thou.. I got some thrown in with my stove, came from england..

As a registered chimney technician and flue installer I wouldn't use ANYTHING other than Docherty Chimney Group products..I've tried them all over the last 20 years and most have let me down. We stock the Docherty flues if anyone needs any, we are about 30 minute from Newry.

;-)

sooty_soupy · 09-11-2010 2:34pm

herlip wrote: »

Currently in the design phase of a new build and looking for info about the stove and flue.
The architect has design the house to one chimney stack in the center of the house which looks good. The problem we have is that we want to put a stove into another room which is roughly 3 meters away from the chimney stack.

Is it possible to the run the flue out of the of the room and turn it 90dg towards the chimney stack?

good idea/bad idea?

Madness....90 degree bends are not allowed in the solid fuel insustry, and the maximum you can run a flue pipe horizontal from the appliance is 150mm (6")

If you want to send plans from teh architect through we can have a look at them for you and see what can be done.

sooty_soupy · 09-11-2010 2:40pm

Dilbert75 wrote: »

don't know your location but try www.stovefit.com. Haven't used him yet - very likely will do - but he seems ok from my dealings with him and works nationwide.

LOL the fact that the logo of Stove fit shows an illegal installation would be a trifle concerning to say the least and the recent project pictures are of one installation, which does not comply to Irish building regulations, and the termination point of the flue is in the wrong position, which will more than likely lead to pressure problems, plus so much twin wall exposed to the outside elements, will act as a cooling effect on the gasses which will encourage the chimney to clog up.

Interesting....

soild fuel stove advise

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